Fuzzy's Romp Room

Anonymous

Perhaps Hubby's driving patterns will respond better to giraffe speak than whatever it is that I am speaking.  Hyena, jackal, gorilla...

Off to dentist.

Essa

Linda-Ranching-in-the-mTns

Sas -- Was the thing about 'memory being a living thing' in the Marshall Rosenberg tapes? 

I absolutely believe that -- just don't remember it being a part of NVC -- but of course it makes sense, since our 'memories' define our past experience to ourselves and others. In retrospect, with the new (more compassionate) tools it is extremely valuable to re-think our 'memories' -- which are only the short-hand we have used to explain/describe pivotal moments/events. Sifting back through those memories, it is easy to see the emotional attachment to the event (often more than the event itself) is what the memory is made of. Yet the emotions of that old moment were based on incomplete information and a fairly limited view of the world, with only US at the center.

By re-considering the past, and finding new (previously un-considered) plausible reasons for why others may have 'done' or said something that was at odds with our expectations -- or by (now) understanding that our own motives were driving our (then) understanding of events -- (and forgiving ourselves for those slanted views -- (having compassion for the 'then-me-that-I-was-in-that-moment') we can (in the NOW) assign NEW interpretations and NEW (more positive/forgiving) emotions to those old events, and in doing so -- completely UN-power them. 

We don't re-invent history -- we just UNDERSTAND it better with our new adult skills. 

I have seen this many times in my own re-thinking of the past... but have even seen women with HUGE old burdens to bear -- release that weight by de-powering the old memory.

For instance -- women who were molested as children have chosen to accept individual coaching in front of the whole Landmark class -- in order to heal those old tangled memories that they KNOW are ruining their lives in the present.

They can (with simple coaching) choose to understand the fears/pain of the child-they-were-then... but (now as better-thinking-adults) they can NOW choose to reject the knee-jerk first impressions-of-a-child that have (up until now) restricted/limited them (their whole lives) into thinking that "All men are dangerous" (therefore undermining positive relationships with wonderful husbands, co-workers, brothers, and lovers) or maybe "I must be a slut for them to have assumed they could do that to me" -- learning how (now) to  forgive themselves for unwanted/unintended sexual arousal or "allowing" the molestation to continue... because at the time that poor-child-who-she-was couldn't see that she had any other options... and the human body has nerve endings that respond outside of what we 'want' in our heads.  

It is amazing to see the difference in these people after releasing these old 'memories' -- one very angry man got up in front of the group and while telling a seemingly-unrelated story about disappointment in his current love-relationship -- "let it slip" that he had, at the age of 5 tried to kill his abusive mother in order to save his little sister from the continuing abuse. He seemed shocked that he had told us (said he had never told anyone that secret before) -- but in only about 15 minutes of very powerful coaching -- he became a NEW MAN... forgiving himself for 'failing to save his sister' (that "failure" had undermined his self-confidence and self-worth for his whole life!) -- and even forgiving his mother for her mental illness -- (which drastically changed his feeling for his now-Alzheimer's ridden mother, and for all powerful-seeming-women in genral -- which had kept him angry at women for most of his life!). He suddenly realized that all those assupmtions of a traumatized 5-year-old child had RULED his thinking for more than 30 years. And that he could choose to use adult understanding to create new more-appropriate-to-his-new-understanding views. 

By changing his thinking -- he could completely change his reality... and move from anger to appreciation.

The last night of the Landmark training -- the faces of the people who have experienced these epiphanies and 'releases' are SO changed... people who are uptight and exude 'bad-energy' the first night -- you know what I mean -- the sort of people you would NOT sit next to on a bus or at a movie... by the end of 4 days, their faces have become totally softened -- and they smile and are relaxed... even excited to connect to new people. It is amazing!

Sas -- Catholic/Jewish/Baptist... it doesn't really matter much -- every religion is full of 'shoulds' -- one of the purposes of religion is to train us to be what society believes is a well-behaved citizen in a well-ordered society. 

I just can't help but think that if we were all trained in true compassion and to think from many perspectives instead of just our own (very limited) one... that we would be so much better off (and so much happier) as human beings attempting to live together! 

Glad you found value in the NVC tapes -- the next time you are frustrated by something -- try watching them again. Now that you have the vocabulary and are beginning to better understand/accept the concepts -- it is amazing how much more sense the tapes will make the second/third/etc times. I see something new every time I watch them. AND -- having some new concept to grasp is so much more invigorating than stewing in your disappointment because something isn't going the way you planned!

Heres to re-thinking all our pain (past and present) into simple events that can be de-powered and accepted as a (very-small) part of life that happens and then is over (!)

So it is with our cancer, too. Yes, I had a BMX. But that is over now, and life still goes on. I spend NO time regretting my decisions or remembering uncomfortable moments -- instead I can choose (and DO choose) to live THIS MOMENT in appreciation for all the beauty and love and opportunity NOW available. 

That said -- I am off for a gorgeous drive to Santa Fe for physical therapy. I am completely aware that she (the PT) will 'hurt me' for an hour -- but I also know it is greatly helping my node-removed arm -- and after only one hour -- I can go have my manicure and pedicure and a great Mexican meal! I don't dread the pain -- I stay in the knowing-that-this-treatment-is-helping (to regain my health.

Love to you all!

Linda

duckyb1

Linda.....do you have LE.

sas-schatzi

LInda, The NVC tapes, I've only done the first, but definitely saw how it applied to dramaDBF and I. The question /statement about memory was mine. It's the science thing. It was an ah hah moment. For decades testing brains by stimulating brain cells has been done. It just hit me in that moment that a memory is stored, but if stored than it has to be something . So what is a memory?. We have fat/muscle/nervous cells etc. So, how is a memory kept? Is it being supplied  energy all the days of our lives. I really should have gone into research. Anywhos. I did giraffe all night and this morning. What a difference.  Linda it's not just religion, it's culture, mores etc. DDBF and I are from different worlds. The tapes will definitely help me figure out what I can accept and can't. I'm excited. I have a very useful tool now. Thank you thank you.

Essa, the giraffe and jackal thing is in the NVC rosenberg tapes that LindaR is taking about. He defines the way we talk and preceive words as being a giraffe or a jackal. What the first tape defined for me was I am using jackal speak with dramaDBF versus giraffe. I've been directly and indirectly trying to change him from a point in the past, to mold him to my preception of acceptable. Instead of just accepting him as he is. But even as I write this, there are somethings that may have to remain in jackal speak.  But I'm going to ponder that for awhile.

Linda-Ranching-in-the-mTns

ducky I might have Le... I definitely had some cording after my surgery. and I still have occasional pain and swelling in my left arm. the physical therapy is helping a lot.



since I believe so strongly in the power of the brain, I won't say that I have a le. to accept it as something that exists as its own entity... will surely give the symptoms more power.



the physical therapy is helping a lot.

Linda-Ranching-in-the-mTns

ducky I might have Le... I definitely had some cording after my surgery. and I still have occasional pain and swelling in my left arm. the physical therapy is helping a lot.



since I believe so strongly in the power of the brain, I won't say that I have a le. to accept it as something that exists as its own entity... will surely give the symptoms more power.



the physical therapy is helping a lot.

Linda-Ranching-in-the-mTns

sas... so glad that you're finding those NVC tape helpful !

Linda-Ranching-in-the-mTns

Sas..

so your remarks about memories were physiological not philosophical.



Nova has been great CDs about the way the brain works. left and I watched 1 last night . and another 1 last week about dreams.



if you're interested in philosophy there's the whole question of the ghost in the machine. there's the Machine our body.. and the ghost which is our soul.



or maybe there's just the machine and everything can be explained with science. except that I've heard when someone dies there is a physical difference in weight that is not explaied.



first law of thermodynamics is that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. it can only change form and move from place to place.



I think that's true of life energy too. and that there is a ghost in the machine that creates and remembers the memories

duckyb1

Linda.....just be careful. There are things you "must" be very careful of, if it is LE. Physical therapy is fine, but there are also many precautions you must take. Just a few....LE patients should never get blood draws, or needle sticks in the affected arm.......a minor cut can become cellulitis...not pretty....never get you BP taken on that arm .....be very careful of cuts and any infections to that hand or arm.....hot tubs and hot showers should be avoided....there are other things too. .....I found my own while doing Rads. It is " life long"......and unlike cancer even the best of us have it forever. .....you just try to keep it under control.......just be careful.....it's real...

thefuzzylemon

Hellllllllooooooooo RR!!!

I am so sorry I've been MIA....I've been reading, but my life has really gotten full all of a sudden!! Some good, some major anxiety, some time consuming...

Sassy...DBF and you are just too cute. In a messy and unpredictable sort of way...call me Tomorrow if You like! So much to catch up on.

Can anyone tell me....is Obama Care actually going to happen? Any idea how it works? Ok...im asking because....drum roll...firing squad....I am officially "released" back to work. If I don't find a position within 30 days, I wont have insurance. Bam. Ugh. So, any information may act as a tranquilizer for me....only 11 more months to go, right??? Ugh.

I learn so much from you all.

Wren...Soooo glad the scans went good!

Rider....I know you had some appts coming up but I don't remember seeing how they went...you doin' ok? BTW is that you in your avatar?

So pretty!

big hugs to everyone....wait, Veggy...are we due for a group hug?

chabba

Fuzzy - Anytime is good for a group hug!

Linda-Ranching-in-the-mTns

Ducky... I understand that LE is real... not psychosymatic. My physical therapist is an LE specialist who has experience with axillary cording. She says that I do not currently exhibt overt signs of LE but that the cording (that I do have) is sometimes a precursor to it... and that anyone who has had 13 nodes removed (like me) or probably even fewer ... is at a greatly increased risk for LE.



So she wants me to behave as if I do have LE already... as a precaution. Wear the pressure sleeve and glove when flying. No cuts, BP cuffs, IVs, etc to that arm.... including no mosquito bites!



Well OK... I can go along with that sort of precautionary stuff... at least until we see what happens with this cording... and I am happy to say that the range of motion is much improved.



Cording and LE are connected... I just don't want to 'ask for' the Universe to send me something I don't want... so I will say No, I don't have LE... but I will continue to follow the pt's advice re taking it very easy on that arm to maintain the best possible health!



Linda

sas-schatzi

Linda, I understand what you are saying about the Universe sending you something if you spend time thinking about it, but from a different point of view. I have an identical twin. We hate to discuss things wrong with us to one another b/c what happens to one happens to the other. Yes, we have taken the precaution to talk, and then be tested for the same problem or do surveillance more intensely. Just as you are doing prevention and surveillance for LE, but not giving into the words.

Fuzzy , yes we haven't talked in awhile and I need to hear your voice and share our funny weird thoughts, They always make me laugh so.The hardest is waiting till you wake up LOL.

Insurance, yes there is an Obama thing that my MH counselor told me about. I was trying to get DDBF set up with it. It's called PCIP---Pre-existing Condition Insurance Premium. WEB address www.pcip   Must be whole address b/c it hyperlinked on it's own. I'll test it after I submit. The whole story is on the web site. What's odd dear friend, is I was just thinking about posting this again yesterday b/c several had mentioned insurance problems. So fortuitous you brought it up. As you know a thought from yesterday may not carry over till today LOL

Fell on my head again tripping over Dini, right into a door. Black dog on wine colored carpeting in a dark room, walking to the bathroom. Headache, neckpain, eye twitching. The Univese has not be kind in re: to falls affecting neck and head. This makes about the sixth closed head injury. Closed head injuries have immediate consequences, but the long term consequences sheesh and then the affect is cumulative. AND dementia can be a consequence. Yeah--DUH. The neck injuries are too numerous to count. Actually, it was a head injury that lead to my permanent disability, not BC related stuff.

Ducky do you have LE? Twin got it after flying. The flying connection came out in the news a few months after she develop LE. Her s/s's started within 24 hours after flying. That was 1996.

Granny Yoo-Hoo, still praying for your son and you. Just had a flash thought about you. HUGS.

Wren glad the test went well

If anyone knows of anyone with liver mets, Redwolf/penny on the Catholic thread recently had Radio Frequency Ablation of a liver tumor that was SUCCESSFUL. Spread the word. The therapy is about 20 years old, but started in Europe. Things done in Europe seem to take so much longer to catch on here. I've always felt it was a bit of arrogance on the USA's part i.e. if we didn't invent it, we have to work at reinventing it before accepting that it works. Don't know how widespread the usuage is here. Also, don't know what other tumors it's being applied too. Ablation has been used for a certain heart anomaly--Wolf -Parkinson White syndrome for maybe a decade and heart tissue that leads to recurrence of ventricular tach and fibrillation, also had a friends son with a brain tumor that had ablation to the blood supply to the brain tumor. It was very new at the time for his type of tumor. He is a 4-6 year survivor now. Would seem that it should have an application to many tumors, will try to do a search.

Linda-Ranching-in-the-mTns

Fuzzy -- even if expensive -- you might want to check into the Cobra insurance as a back up plan to bridge the gap until you DO find the right job with the right benefits...

So -- I went to a Landmark seminar meeting last night -- a bonus that I wasn't expecting!

The seminar was about "Relationships" -- and my partner had a wonderful epiphany! Now this wasn't Les (my BF -- he was back on the ranch) this 'partner' was just the man sitting next to me -- in Landmark you sometimes have tiny assignments that you do real quickly, then discuss for 1-2 minutes with the person sitting next to you -- to bring clarity -- or for some super-quick coaching. A few people will also go to the front for coaching with the Landmark leader -- and by example the lessons are had by all... but the 1-2 minute discussions in your seat are often where things come into focus, because you are dealing only with your OWN issues... and your partner helps you stay on track with the assignment.

Anyway -- my partner last night was an attractive/intelligent man about 65 -- who said his reason for being in the seminar was to try to figure out what went wrong in his last serious relationship.

Doing the work in class -- He realised it was his continuous knee-jerk thought: "You can't make me!" and "You can't tell me what to do!"

Doesn't that sound like a 5-year-old child? Well -- that is exactly where it came from! This man had a domineering father -- and so this angry "You can't make me!" is something that he internalized at FIVE -- and he has 'been that person' ever since! Now -- sometimes that trait serves him well -- he is independent, confident, and owns his own business. But in a love relationship -- how would it feel to be on the other side of that? (Sas -- this may be your DDBF -- huh? And YOUR reaction of YOUR five-year-old-self might be "Oh, yes I can-- I can DO anything I want to!")

Many of our strongest ideas about 'who we are' and 'how we fit into the world' are decisions we made at 3-4-5 years old. Wow -- huh? Identifying those key bits of our persona -- give us a tremendous power to change them -- if they no longer serve us. 

One of the exercises last night was to complete the blanks: Love is ____________. Realtionships are ______. Romance is ____________. And to complete them the way you really really feel -- not like some song title. 

Man -- you should have heard the negative/dismal answers. Love is just a fantasy. Relationships are difficult. Romance is bunk. Relationships are next-to-impossible. Romace is dead. Love is painful...

So -- these ideas create the reality of whoever says those things. They are speaking the world they live in -- and that is exactly what they bring into every relationship they have. "Impossibility" and "Difficulty" and "Pain". 

But the GOOD news is that none of that is 'the TRUTH'. Relationships are NOT difficult -- or anything else! They are simply what we make them! And each one is different, because each person we are in relationship with (sister/brother/mother/father/boyfriend/lover/husband/sister-in-law/co-worker/boss) comes with their OWN set of preconcieved notions about 'what relationship is'. 

So, with this new (larger) perspective of the ideas building the foundation of our faultiest relationships -- we can consciously alter our thinking... and bring THAT new view of what is possible into being. Even if the other person changes NOTHING -- we can alter our own view -- and make the relationship work! (Some relationships may shift into simply friendship or respect-from-afar or something else -- but you can release all the anger and depression and frustration in ANY relationship if you can understand what has been fueling the fire. And I promise you -- no matter how much fuel THEY keep throwing -- it simply won't push your buttons anymore. And that will change YOUR responses -- and that gives them the opportunity to change in respect to the new-you. 

My partner's answers about love and relationship were "Impossible" and "Difficult" -- you should have seen the look on his face when I said -- WOW -- so that is what you brought into that relationship: "You can't make me!" and "Love is impossible" and "Relationships are difficult". How much chance do you think your last relationship had -- no matter how lovely your partner was? What if you called her right now and were 100% responsible for bringing all that to the table? What if you told her that your stubborn position of "You can't make me" had been in the way of your love-success for 10 years? And that you now realize this was the ranting of a 5-year-old child -- and not the way you want to 'be' at all?

What if you told her that now you are NOW creating the possibility that "Love is Peaceful-Contentment" and "Relationships are Healthy and Productive"? What would a love relationship like THAT look like -- and how much do you want that in your life?

Now -- she might care -- or she might not. But who better to understand his epiphany -- and how wonderful for her if he actually named the beast... and claimed responsibility for ruining their life together! Maybe they will work it out -- maybe not. But how great that this man now has the information to work with and change his NEXT relationship. Plus -- that "You can't make me" no doubt carries over into his work and his finances and every other part of his world. He can now examine his choices-- and then decide if he wants to take the 'advice' of an angry/frustrated five year old -- or create a new point of view that can include collaboration and valuing others.

Anyway -- I thought you all might be able to 'get something' from this.

My PT kicked my ass yesterday -- and is applying for permission to see me 12 more times. I am very grateful for that... she physically measured my range of motion changes -- and says I am doing real well, with almost 50cm increase in ROM (4 directions added together)... and I can see that that left breast that she has been working on (some deep massage on the muscles and scar tissue under the new belly-boob) is better-looking and less-dense than the other one... so she showed me what to do (ouch!) for myself on Breast #2. I still have the cording -- but I am almost to full extension now before the cording surfaces! Will probably need to do these stretches for the rest of my life to maintain the reach... and may never be as strong (upper body) as I once was -- but I am very happy to be experiencing this great improvement.

Time to drive home. A (Landmark) girlfriend from KC is arriving by train tomorrow -- should be fun!

Linda

sas-schatzi

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20120505/Radiofrequency-ablation-during-breast-cancer-surgery-can-provide-effective-alternative-to-XRT.aspx

Radiofrequency ablation during breast cancer surgery can provide effective alternative to XRT

Google keywords: Radio Frequency Ablation and then same with "and breast cancer".

Many uses came up. Only read above article. It will be interesting to see future use. This article sited the use was good for areas that didn't have access to radiation therapy.

BUT, AND HUGE BUT, the implied is that radiation is superior to RFA. But all here know the wide spread damage done by radiation therapy. Not just for BC, but other uses of radiation therapy in different body parts, leads to adjacent tissues and bones having problems subsequent to treatment completion. With RFA the tissue is directly "cooked" as in Redwolf's liver tumor and the surrounding tissue of the tumor to create the margin. So, if you think of the surrounding tissue as the indirect area. The treatment with RFA covers a predetermined area that is well defined, whereas, in rads say to the breast, the rads still affect lung,perhaps heart, muscle, bone, skin, and lymph. All I can say is SHIT, we are on the cusp of enlightenment. Within a very short time-a few years 1-3, this will become the approach of choice at large facilities like Mayo, Johns Hopkins, All National Cancer Research Centers (last I studied it there were I think 17 in USA). Within 5 years, it will be approach in next tier facilities. SO, if you know of anyone getting a new diagnosis and trying to make treatment decisions, this is an absolutely reasonable approach request. Choosing a facility that has this capability now would be a wise decision. Not just b/c the facility has it, but the docs are seriously trained NOW in it's use and appropriateness to each situation. To get docs to use new approaches takes time. Docs tend to stay with what they learned in residency, until a new method becomes widely accepted. Facilities that are highly rated AND have residency (docs-in -training) programs use the most up to date approaches/treatments/equipment/ docs of highest training as teachers. But even with that comment there is a tier system within the highest rated facilities.

RFA is the future, Radiation therapy as it is used now, will change radically.

 

 

 

     

ridergirl

Fuzzy baby I started taxol Jan 25 so through first cycle now, nausea and stuff not so bad but started now with the neuropathy in  my hands and can't sleep.  Pharmacist suggested B12 and that i switch from efffexor to cymbalta as both those may help the nerves regenerate, PCP agreed try that. Also doubled my dose of remeron and gave me ativan to take at bedtime, hopefully i get some sleep soon as i am just going around like a zombie right now - last night i would have sworn i was stoned!!!  Also having hot flashes now which are no fun either.  Having radiation next week to hips and spine, somehow that scares me  more than alll the other stuff i`ve had so far - just seems so weird the whole concept of radiation i guess, and have CT scan scheduled for next fri to check my lungs and liver,,,,scared about that too.

Glad you have been busy, sounds like at least some of it is good stuff.  Missed you around here :-))

Linda-n3

Ridergirl, there are NO drugs that make nerves regenerate.  Cymbalta  has been effective for diabetic neuropathy, and some folks with CIPN get some relief, but it is symptomatic, there is no nerve healing.  Same with Effexor, it has a different mechanism of action, but also has been used with diabetic neuropathy.  Neurontin (gabapentin) has also been used.  Lots of drugs are available to help "manage" symptoms of CIPN, but none of them fix it, there are no preventive strategies that have been proven to work.  Best strategy to keep from getting permanent damage is to reduce or delay dose, or discontinue if symptoms do not resolve.  Some people are OK with living longer but with neuropathy, others (like myself) would have chosen less toxic drugs.  I am participating on a panel in March to talk about the long-term effects of permanent CIPN to a group of toxicologists.  These are the researchers who are doing studies to find out what causes nerve damage to begin with and how to prevent it.  Also, B12 does not have any role in preventing CIPN, and if taken in too large amount can actually also damage the nerves, and so can B6.  Both too little and too much of each of these is a problem.  PM me if you want more info on CIPN - I have done a lot of reading in this area.  There are actually some basic physiology researchers working on neurotropic drugs that actually do help nerves regenerate, but nothing is available clinically yet.... let's hope they find something soon.

thefuzzylemon

Rider Baby....LOL so cute...thanks for the update. You've never had rads before? Its a pretty simple process but...yes, very weird. If you want an awesome "lotion" for tender radiated skin...get Bag Balm and ask the radiation department to give you wrap gauze (the Bag Balm goes on like warm butter...and is messy...but I swear it was the most awesome stuff for my burnt up nasty radiation skin). Its in a green can. Its like $7.

Sassy SAS...I got into stuff with mama today and tied up in a few things! Ugh. Sorry about that. My baby girl will be home this weekend but I'll take her back Sunday afternoon. Thanks oodles for the info!! You rock!

Dang it...forgot what else I wanted to say....gr!!!

Gals...I really think I took a corner. I mean, there's still some funk in there but...I'm really looking forward to getting back to work. I want to challenge myself. I have a great opportunity coming up and Im hoping it works into a long term assignment. Keeping Cobra would be hard...very hard. But, I will try. Hey, maybe I'll have an income by then, right?

XOXOXXXOOOO

CHABBA....thanks for the hug sweetie!! Can I have another? LOL

sas-schatzi

Linda-n3, just shows to go ya, er, reverse of that. The direct line MO that should have been able to give Rider the answer you gave, gave her all the incorrect info. Ergh. Please, need to figuire out where else your response ought to be posted so others aren't following advice that may harm them. At least Rider can protect herself now. Duh the CIPN thread(head slap). Where else?

Fuzzy, knew it had to be serious with mom when it was the third phone call. No worries, we'll catch up next week. Starting a project for DS. Have oodles of fun getting your project done.

Linda Ranch--I could hear your sigh of dismay when I said I was still going to use some jackal speak. The main thing is the phone call that DDBF won't be home all night. There may be others, likely not. But that one is non-negotiable.I don't think there's any way to do it in giraffe.

Linda-Ranching-in-the-mTns

Sas -- No 'sighs' or 'dismay' here, Honey.  

I have no judgment (and no stake in) whether you jackal or giraffe.

Or even if you and DDBF stay in a relationship.

This is all about empowering YOU to create your own happiness, independant of what DDBF says or does. It is about learning new ways to create successful communication in all relationships -- while maintaining respect/love for both yourself and everyone else.

Giraffes aren't spineless -- they can (and do) draw boundaries around themselves -- but no one can successfully draw boundaries around other people. "You can't do this" usually gets a knee-jerk "Oh, you wanna bet-- just watch me!"

Instead you can simply say something like "It seems that something has shifted in our relationship. Are your willing to have an honest/friendly conversation about what is happening? I miss sleeping with you every night. I am uncomfortable with this sometimes on/sometimes off -- it makes me feel off-balance. Can you tell me how you are feeling?" If he answers in ways that seem honest/friendly... you could then ask for what you want... 

"Would you be willing to go back to spending every night here? Or, if not, then let's at least create a schedule, so I can plan my free evenings." (or whatever it is that you think you want)

That sounds reasonable, doesn't it? Honest, Graceful, Loving -- but without Accusation. No yelling or making a bunch of judgmental assumptions.

Or, you could simply ask him directly what he currently thinks the paramaters of the relationship are. You don't have to respond right away -- (often better if you don't) -- you can just 'sit with' his answer, and see how it feels, where it leads you. If the sort of commitment he wants to make is what you want, too, then great. If not, then you can decide how to deal with it, or maybe negotiate.

Or maybe you already have had enough. In which case, no need to hand him the power by drawing a line in the sand that you know he will cross. You can simply say "this isn't working for me this way... sorry... bye bye... lets do lunch sometime."

But whatever is happening -- just give 100% of what you are willing to give... and not a drop more. He makes his choices, and you make yours. Things change, and as they do -- you both can continue to alter your choices. Nothing is ever decided forever.

Best of luck

Linda

duckyb1

Bye, bye sounds good to me Sas. No one deserves a relationship based on when out of the goodness of his heart he throws a few crumbs your way. Kick him to the curb. Your important, and don't ever allow anyone to make you feel less. Hugs girlfriend.

sas-schatzi

Ducky good advice and perhaps I will

Linda, You hit upon what or most or all of the thoughts I've been having. It's as if you are in my mind.

Ducky, linda,Essa, fuzzy,Linda-n. and my friends here NS and MK. It doesn't sound like I'm making progress with DDBF. But we are light years from where we started. Two items left out of the discussion are particularly important. The relationship started with me propositioning him for a friends with benefits. The parameters were set that it was to be that with no other expectation. Discussion re:monogamy physically was b/c both of us had been celibate for along time and were concerned re: diseases. We agreed. As time went on things changed, we developed feelings.  I had full intention of dating others and was working towards that. But the sex is incredible. Put that together with the amount of changes he has made to make me happy are many, very many. You have heard what I'm most unhappy with. They aren't minor. But to talk of the changes and all that he has done to make me happy would take an immense amount of time and space. So, that's why he's not being kicked to the curb yet. In the 8 months since we started. He has never drunk in my presense. I know of only two instances when he did drink. Since oct when we went to the next level, there have been 5 nights out without the call that is so important. Why he is messing up on this one aspect is perplexing. Each time it lead to the brink and the one time of putting his clothes out. Of the 5 times, I had been told 3x's he might not be home, 4th was a bachelor party and it was stay where you are if you've been drinking, and the 5th time I forget. I made the big deal about calling to confirm what was happening.

A huge positive for me is I have decided alcohol had become a problem in my life. Being with him has made it easy to change my own habits. I have no wish to drink or have more than a couple when out to dinner--even more radical none. Not that this couldn't happen with someonelse, but we have an ease of talking about it. I was open about how I felt about my drinking. It is very nice to be able to talk openly with him about it. In this one aspect, there are many ways for me to look at it. He despices(sic) other drug use, so, I'm hard pressed to believe he's into any substance abuse. Plus since he works 6-7days a week from 7:30 am to 4-6 on his first job. His 2nd job is not daily,it's as needed, but is frequent due to the nature of what he does for thejob. Can't be too specific b/c this is an open forum. He's never missed a day of work since we started. A substance abuser just can't keep those kind of work hours. Gambling was a concern, and I'm still not convinced, but have no proof. His kids bleed him for money. I've been with him on multiple occassions when he would wire 40-50$ at a time or most of what he made in a week. But what he owes me has racked up. There is enough oddness, that I'm willing to see what the next 3-4 weeks show. His labor cost to paint the house and fix the bathroom from the flood would finish the debt off easily with him actually being paid under fair market wage for those projects.  Again b/c of forum, can't give enough details to truly make it clear. If I could you would understand why he's still here. If it helps any My MH counselor with whom I held nothing back re:occurrences /concerns/everything, feels very strongly we could do well together. It was the MH guy who asked what big projects I needed done. Then suggested getting prices to determine labor costs--have DDBF do the jobs, that would clear the debt to zero. Then go from there.

Your collective advice has helped to keep me vigilent and thinking. Definitely listening. Thank you.

sas-schatzi

Linda-N what is your opinion about melatonin RE:use with ativan for insomnia? I've been doing it for the last year plus--ChrissyB suggested the melatonin. My PCP knows I take the two together when needed. Until DDBF it was nightly. Now infrequent. It seems to me there was some opinions on another thread that melatonin shouldn't be taken by us BC'ers, but I was desparate for sleep as Rider describes she is now.

Chevyboy

Morning Sas... It's hard to read what you talk about, only because I can hear how lonely and hurting you are without him.  Linda makes a lot of sense.  And so does Ducky!    And because I've been there.

Sure you can try all that kindness and loving efforts to talk to him, but if it hasn't worked yet, it probably ain't a gonna'.   It would work, if he really wanted to MAKE it work, but he's a man, and they just don't think the same way a woman does.

It's just my opinion, but it's like trying to change too many things, on your part.   He knows what makes you happy.   But he wants his own space more than he wants to make "your" things work.    I know you want to hang on to him, because you obviously love him, and so many things about him... but it has to be consensual.

You can change "you" all you want, and make yourself feel good about what you are thinking, but if you are expecting changes from someone else, it just doesn't happen by wishing for it..... or making boundaries...    It only happens when both of you want the same thing.  

It would be nice if you could beat it into their heads to make them what you WANT them to be, but we would get into trouble.   If you could just distance yourself from him.... for at least a few weeks or months, to be able to see how you feel without him in your life, for awhile..... And if he finally figures out you are worth MORE than all his other little diversions, then you could THINK about letting him back in your life.

It sometimes happens that way, but I think a nice little vacation from each other would help you both.  I mean it sounds like he takes breaks from you even when you don't want him to.   You need someone who thinks you are "valuable" and would do anything to make you happy. 

Sure if he would fix your house all up, great.... but he has to do it because he wants to STAY with you, and not to pay off his debt.  

A marriage counselor told me one time...  "If you stay together right now, it will only get worse.....  Stay away for awhile, let him get help, and see if you even WANT to be together again."    We couldn't work it out together, because we didn't know how.  It took a couple months.... starting with "I never want to SEE him again" to "Okay, maybe we can try it one day at a time."    This was after his trips to the psychiatrist, medication,  no drinking, and our girls talking to him.  

You can't do it all by yourself....  he has to help you trust him again. 

Take good care........

Chevyboy

Just sayin'....

duckyb1

Sas....sounds like your talking yourself into this relationship. Your doing him a favor. A place to sleep, when he decides if he will "come home" on any given night......" Incredible sex" to use your description.......taking care of his other needs.....and freedom yo do what he wants....when he wants.........also drug a users can hold down full time jobs, even do drugs while working, so don't rule that out either.....have heard amazing stories of how they do it.....even on construction sites using power tools.......college kids carrying a high GPA, while on drugs, and white collar workers snorting in bathrooms at some of your well know corporate places.......so don't be fooled. Some are Pro's hiding their addiction....



Bottom line........you deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. No man is worth compromising your ideals. Your worth more then that. Hugs.........

Linda-n3

Re: melatonin. There were some studies that showed melatonin slowed bc cells, may have a role in reducing recurrence and/or metastasis, but no confirmatory studies at this time.  It was promising in early lab work.  My previous MO, current MO, and PCP have no problem with me using it if I want, but I didn't like the way it was so unpredictable in onset and next-day drowsiness.  Combining it with another sleep drug could be potentially a problem, but they work by different mechanisms, have different half-lifes, so I don't know for sure.  Me, I usually experiment just a little at the boundaries of being noncompliant, but not too overboard as I already know I tend to have strong reactions to many meds.  More later if you want - am running late for an appointment with my massage therapist today!

Linda-Ranching-in-the-mTns

Sas -- You will figure it out.

From what you said, I wonder if drinking is a part of it. You 'never' see him drink. He might want to keep it that way. The nights he doesn't come/call may be because he is closet drinking. Alcoholics that fall off the wagon can be very secretive. And if he loves you and wants to support you in NOT drinking -- he won't come near you when he does.

No telling what is really up.

But -- you will find your priorities. Humans need connection and 'incredible sex' is a huge draw. Humans aren't always rational. We are driven by many things -- and sex/imtimacy are certainly big ones (at least for me!)

You are loved here -- whatever you choose. Hopefully your 'explanations' here are simply writing-to-synthecize-your-own-thoughts -- you sure don't have to account for your feelings/decisions to/for your girlfriends here!

Keep on thinking -- those tapes are just the tip of the iceberg as far as new tools you can use to change your own perspective... and learning how to better navigate this LIFE is what I think we are here for.

DDBF comes with lessons for you to learn -- about yourself! 

How you answer those blanks could tell you alot about what you have brought to the table in the past -- and help you define what you want love/relationship to look like in the future... by choosing new (more positive) phrases... "Love is ___________. Relationships are ________. Romance is __________.

You can (of course) do the same exercise with any part of your life. Cancer is _________. My health is ___________. Happiness is ___________. 

Revealing old habitual ways of thinking is the first step to consciously choosing a new way of being.

Love ya -- got to go pick up my girlfriend from the train station -- she will be here for a week -- so I prob won't be here much.

If anyone wants me -- please PM me -- as I will get an email that way alerting me.

Linda

dogeyed

My Dear, Dear FUZZerolla, I hve missed you also.  I have wondered how you are.  Amd  was SO delighted to hear the little puppy's name is Zoey.  I am glad you are making progress with all the garbage that comes with cancer.  I DID improve, it turned out, for periods of time, and then failed for a few scary days perhaps, and then back to the good stuff even longer, more eff-u stuff for a couple days, until eventually I was no longer miserable.  As for spirit lasers and dream walking in deep fields and reading various prophets, I had to put all that aside for a while on account of that pneumonia.  My mind is sort of empty.  But what's appearing miraculously is some things I want to do, I now have a list of six that after my rest period, I will accomplish my must-doo-doos, one for a week at a time.  This includes possum wrangling, attaching a giant blowing machine on one end of the house to blow all the dust out the other end, and somehow cutting Smokey's toenails.  SMILE.  I'm glad you're chomping down on those pain pills, a person cannot live properly in pain. I know, I've had ridiculous pain my whole life.  Then I'm pressured right now by this trash-husband of a daughter in FLA, where he has literally lost his mind, and it was all I could do not to get on a plane to Florida that very day, ring his doorbell, and then yank him into the yard and beat the pure-tee-livin shit out of him. 

EVERYONE, I have read what I have missed, as I always do, and in case anyone is interesed in statistics, it takes about two or three hours per each week or two missed.  This is known as persistence and stupidity.  There was some talk in here about grungy gnawed-on hands, and you all will NOT believe this, but for a while we had giant balls of stickers growing wild in grass so high I couldn't see my feet, and they'd get stuck on Gandalf's fur coat, so I removed them and hired a mower.  Too late.  I had all sorts of wierd deformities of the hands, and it would not go away UNTIL... I was diagnosed with cancer and given chemo, and it burned that skin rash clean off. 

LOVESSA, you were talking about losing your brains, and so did I !!!  I started losing my concentration in my mid-50s, my back had become worsely painful, I was seeing a psychiatrist, and got disability becuz I had no idea how to work anymore.  I mean, I can still function enough to buy groceries and balance my checkbook, but I can be talking along and forget what the hell I was saying, and when I went to the ER from my pneumonia, the ER doc said I had been talking backwards (what??!!).  But I have tricks to keep my thinking straight when necessary.  Paying attention helps.  Ha!  But like my pills.  I have a little saucer with a dip in the middle for the teacup to go.  Every morning I get up and pour the amount of each pill I take all the way around. Fortunaely, I take four of each one and at the same time.  So, I can just have a look at my saucer and tell where I'm at in the day for my pills.  Any odd pills that come up go in the middle.  But pouring them into the saucer, that is the hard part because I have peripheral neuropathy in my hands and feet from chemo, and I am constantly pouring too many pills in the saucer, on the dresser, in the drawer, inside the hole of my guitar, stuff like that. 

LINDA. and the rest of you girls that constantly get bad news, I feel so bad about the mets to your neck.  What the hell???  But I always had a short list of the good reasons to have to go thru chemo again.  Extremely addictive but magical pain pills!  Yum, yum.  And easy as pie to stop them when I quit hurting.  And CAROL, I read two of your posts over in the "Good Sense" section, and being soooo sharp and quick, I wound up reading one in the wrong section, then two wrong ones in another section on account of I forgot you had posted a week before, so I was reading the wrong ones of those.

Loved DUNES hiking pics, glad CINDYcrog is a'gonna get her leg in the mail, and SASSY the way I get rid of trouble in a relationship is to remove the problem, so keep your cash separate, as an example.  By the by, Miss Sassarona, you have GOT to go to the hospital about banging your head, PLEASE, just think of Hillary Clinton, okay?  I love all of you, I have been absent becuz I'm resting, but I shall return!  GG 

dunesleeper

I can't remember who asked about it, but my naturopath prescribed melatonin for me to help fight the breast cancer. Mine, I think, are 3 mg extended release. I have no concerns about taking them.

Yesterday was my one-year anniversary. One year ago yesterday afternoon I laid down on my couch and crossed my arms across my chest because I was cold. My left hand rested on my right breast and I felt the huge lump, which turned out to be 4 cm, just beneath the nipple. I had a lot of anxiety yesterday and couldn't think of why. Towards the end of the day I figured that maybe it was related to the anniversary. I celebrated my anniversary with a cupcake. I have not eaten cake for over a year. Sugar is one of the things I avoid or strongly limit.

This weekend will be my one-year anniversary at breastcancer.org.

Have a good day. I hope to check in tonight before going to sleep. I agreed to do another hike tomorrow morning. It will be a long one, so I don't know. It is also on the other side of town. I'd like to try it though. It is supposed to be windy, which will put the "feels like" temperature down to freezing or below. There may even be some snow. Still . . . . . . . .