Rant away about COVID, the vaccine, etc.

Anonymous

For those worried about vaccine resisters, here's the good news: they are the minority, even here in the good old USA.

Here's a very recent article from USAToday -

“According to a recent survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau, 25,900,000 Americans — or 10.4% of the 18 and older population — say they will either probably or definitely not agree to receive the vaccination.“

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/21/covid-vaccination-hesitancy-rates-state/8210703002/

A quick scan of the data show Wyoming and South Carolina with resisters at 25% and 20% respectively , every other state has fewer than 20%.
25% is a lot, but still a minority and good thing Wyoming is not densely populated, I guess.

I don't think they've explored reasons why these people don't want to be vaccinated. I can't get the link to the census survey to work to see if they asked about that.

States such as NJ, CT, MA, CA and even FL have under 10% of population likely or definitely refusing vaccination

KBL

I myself would not be doing what you’re describing. I’ve read about the other protocols (please forgive me, I can’t remember the name) of where people take an animal dewormer for cancer. I wouldn’t do that either. I don’t know enough about the dewormer and would not take it unless I did a lot more research. If I do get COVID, what I do will be decided by a licensed physician and me and my family.

Anonymous

ok finally got the survey link to work.

https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/household-pulse-survey-covid-19-vaccination-tracker.html

Most cited reason for vaccine hesitancy: afraid of side effects.

Although, “don't trust the vaccine” and “don't trust the govt”are popular as well. But still, it's 10.5% of total population

And - 82.4% of US adults have received one dose and 99.4% who have received one dose will plan or have received all doses

Teedoff

To add to my rant about vaccine maybe not working for immune compromised me… I am even more at the mercy of the anti Vaxxers who don’t give a hoot and live in an alternate reality

illimae

I’ve been reading here and appreciating the thoughtful and respectful conversation. I just have two things to add to some of the comments.

Restricted hours for unvaccinated at businesses would cause a huge storm of rebellion from way more than the freedom preachers, I for one (even sympathetic and responsible) would be outraged at rules like that and I am certainly not alone.

Also, some reasons people are hesitant are concerns about lasting effects of the vaccine, such as the increased risk of blood clots and potential heart damage issue. None of us know how long these may last or what might be discovered later, it’s all too fast for people who are used to 5 years or more of data. I can’t blame them, they are not unreasonable, there’s a lot we don’t know yet, and if it turns out to be nothing great but if some major lasting harm is discovered a year or two from now, then what? “We didn’t know” won’t cut it.

KBL

Trinigirl50, I’m very sorry for the losses you’ve suffered.

KBL

Thank you for the charts, Olma.

AlwaysMeC

KBL, The deworming protocol you read about is likely the Ivermectin. I've used it on a brand bew kitty cat a while back.

From your recent posts, I am guessing you are not antivax, but vaccine hesitant? I understand some people are hesitant within good reason. I have a family member who developed an autoimmune condition after the HPV vaccine as a child. She was hesitant to get the Covid vaccine, but ended up getting it on the advice from a couple of her doctors (including an immunologist), and because she had a horrible bout of Covid in 2020. She had every symptom from the headaches, to high fever, to loss of taste, to covid toes, and lung inflammation. She decided she didn't want to go through that again or worry about spreading it to other people that would go through it or worse.

jhl

Illimae,

I am truly not trying to pick on you but you brought up the issue of not knowing anyone who has died of Covid. I find this mindset to be a problem actually. Below your post there are several folks who have brought you their realities. I, personally, work in the acute care setting. The Covid patient has changed in the last year. Currently, we have young (20's) men & women who are healthy - absolutely no pre-existing conditions other than they are human. Some are on vents. Several have died on vents. Most not on vents are on BiPap & are teetering. Their lives will forever be changed because of this illness. I have colleagues who work in Children's Hospitals & their ICU's are full of kids as young as 18 months to 18 years on vents & BiPaps. Most of them have not had a chance to start their lives & because of stupid choices (not yours) they may not get that chance &/or their future looks worrisome. Why do people want to wait 5 years to see the outcome of the vaccine when we have children who are sick & dying in whom 5 years may look very grim. That, to me, is the definition of being self centered.

We do not yell FIRE in a movie theater, we don't drive excessive speeds on crowded highways, we put bleach & rat poison in places where children cannot get them & we don't fuss because they are in child resistant containers. We do these things for the greater good of society. Finally, I have read so many rants on here about how friends, family & the general public can make comments about how we as BC patients might have done something to cause our cancer. Everyone here is so supportive to encourage people to let go of that guilt. Well, let us not blame or try to find a reason someone got sick & died of Covid. That is exactly the same mindset - they must have had a pre-existing condition! No, most in the last 5 months have been healthy.

Covid is the most worrisome infectious illness of this century. It has significant morbidity & we've all seen the horrible mortality. A truly empathetic person does not have to have personal experience to want the best outcome for those affected & to want to try to help.

Stay well,

Jane

Teedoff

Apologize for any misunderstanding about not getting vaccinated. Just a very emotional issue for me. Yes, there are very legitimate reasons for not doing so, but I don’t understand the reasoning where Covid deniers don’t believe their lyin’ eyes.

AlwaysMeC

Illimae, I think you're lucky because you don't have to worry about a ton of people around you that could possibly have Covid, so I get the outrage. I live in Hawaii. We had one of the lowest rates in the Country until travel without restrictions opened up again and locals brought back the virus to spread among themselves. Although we have nearly 70 percent vaccinated, my area is only at 35 percent. I feel safer on the other side of the island than the side I live in. Unlike you, if I go out and just try to be a normal person, I am likely to encounter someone who can pass it along. It sucks for me and it's not fair. So, I am the opposite and feeling outrage that I have to be super extra cautious and not go out like I want to. It's all about risk. You are low risk there and I am high risk here. Before this surge I felt safe going out.

You know what also sucks? And this isn't towards you -- That some people view immune compromised as second class citizens, so they feel that they have to sacrifice. Not cool. It's like well he died cause he had diabetes. You know what that diabetes was manageable and that person volunteered at the freaking homeless shelter while you sit on your butt all day complaining about a mask making you breath in your stank breath! People expect immune compromised individuals to just sit back and be left out because nobody cares about them anyway. I hate that I have to think twice about someone not wanting to mask up to protect me cause I am freaking masking up to protect that person and myself. Then they get all the privileges. Rant over.

We are just all fed up. Stupid Covid.

KBL

AlwaysMeC, you are correct. I am in no way antivax. I've never had chicken pox. My sister and brother both got them as adults. Let me tell you, it's much worse to get it as an adult. They did not have an approved vaccine, and I hoped I wouldn't get it. As soon as it was approved by the FDA, I had my butt in a chair. I also had my daughter vaccinated, as she hadn't gotten the chicken pox up to that point. Thankfully, that vaccine worked for me, Speaking of that, I should probably make sure it's still working. That was approved, as far as I know, after years of debate. I believe it was in 1995 when it was approved. She and I have had every vaccine approved over the years. I got a flu shot last year. I won't go into why I'm hesitant, as I don't think it's important to the discussion. I do have a very good reason.

The COC protocol is what I was thinking of. The medication is Fenbenzadole. Haven't done any research on it because it didn't interest me to do it

wrenn

I was afraid of the side effect of the vaccine but was more afraid of death or even ventilator All drugs have side effects. The intended use of a drug is to create a side effect. My chemo caused permanent neuropathy which I was warned about but chose neuropathy over possible death.

AlwaysMeC

Illimae, wait were you being sarcastic at living on a mountain? If so, LOL at me. At least I got a laugh out of myself today!

WC3

Olma61:

I am just curious to hear more of your perspectives because they are very different from mine and I am trying to understand. Why do you feel showing your card at Olive Garden is an indignation? I've never been asked to show mine at a restaurant as I have not been dining in anywhere but I feel very proud that I have been vaccinated and would be happy to show my card regardless of whether there was a mandate to do so or not. I feel I have done a positive thing for society by getting vaccinated. I've been disappointed by the times I've had my card in my hand ready to show it and no one has asked to see it.

How do you feel that government mandates requiring restaurants limit entry to those who furnish proof of vaccination differ from existing laws and health and safety codes? For example, limiting entry to restaurants to those who are wearing shirts and shoes, and limiting alcohol sales, and entry to bars and night clubs to those over 21 who show valid proof of ID?

exbrnxgrl

trinigirl,

I am so sorry that Covid19 has effected you personally. Although I have not been personally effected, I completely agree with your position. The pandemic is here right now. In a perfect world we would have a few years to fully investigate the vaccines and how they effect folks with all of the various medical conditions and treatments but a pandemic doesn't give us that luxury. All indications are that with the exception of certain individuals with certain medical conditions, the vaccine is safe. Can this be guaranteed? Of course not. Again, to wait several years is a luxury whose cost would be way too high.

As to vaccine efficacy, it is common knowledge that viruses can and do mutate. This not the first virus rodeo our medical researchers have dealt with. So given that, yes we will need boosters and no, none will carry a guarantee against breakthrough infections. The vaccines have cut way down on hospitalizations and deaths, way down among the vaccinated. Again, if you are looking for guarantees or perfection in medicine, as bc patients you should have a good understanding of the fact that medicine simply doesn't work that way.

PS: You mentioned the Caribbean. Can I assume trini is for Trinidad?

jhl

Ok, a thought exercise. I hope everyone knows that mRNA technology is not new, right? It's been around since the 1980's & has been utilized in all sorts of clinical trials. There is currently a trial at MDAnderson with Stage 2 & 3 colon cancer patients. After surgery, these patients have their tumors sent for mutations. Then, a specific mRNA vaccine is developed for each patient which targets their mutations. Just like with Covid vaccines, the mRNA tells the patient's cancer cells to produce protein fragments based off the tumor mutations. The immune system then searches for other cells with the same mutations & clears out any circulating tumor cells. Thus, a much lower chance of metastasis.

Would you take that mRNA vaccine if it could be designed for you??

Oh, another note - the current research indicates the heart effects are due to Covid, not the mRAN technology. All viruses can & often do cause myocarditis & pericarditis. It is a seasonal side effect of viruses & can happen to anyone anywhere after any kind of a viral illness. This is not a new disease at all. It has been a well known cause of heart failure & occurs anywhere between 1-3% of those infected with any virus - from the common cold to HIV, measles, chicken pox & yes, Covid.

Stay well,

Jane

jhl

Exbrnxgrl,

Just to clarify - vaccines do not mutate. Viruses mutate. Some, like the flu, mutate quickly so require a new vaccine. Others, measles, do not mutate as fast so a vaccine is stable.

Jane

exbrnxgrl

oops sorry! I know that so please don't assume it was a lack of knowledge. I have an excellent understanding of biology but don’t always do as well with keyboarding.Guess I just hit the v key and kept going with the wrong word 🤨. I'll edit it, thanks.

Anonymous

It just strikes me as inappropriate to show a health card to a restaurant worker to gain entry. Are they going to show me theirs too? And the people who handle my food? Can I see their vax cards too?

I was a restaurant worker back when it was the workers who had to have vaccinations and TB tests and then get a license from the city, which was displayed front of the house. But we never asked customers to show their TB test results.

But - showing a paper card is better than electronic monitoring of health statuses. If I had to choose, I’d go with flashing a paper card versus electronic systems. Too much data mining and collecting going on as it is. If I really lived by my principles, I wouldn’t even use the internet but I get more benefit from my internet use than I do from going to chain restaurants 😂

Also, no offense, but I’m not proud about getting a COVID shot, just like I’m not proud that I had a smallpox or polio vaccine. It just is what it is. I got the shot because it seemed like the best decision and to protect myself primarily. I don’t think I made a great sacrifice for the sake of the world or anything.

AlwaysMeC

Jane, I am glad you brought that up. In fact, I just mentioned to my husband the other day that with the speed of the Covid vaccine I hope they create mRNA vaccines for breast cancers. I had heard about the HIV trials, but hadn't heard about the one for the colon. That's very exciting news. The Covid vaccine in my mind sets precedence. Drug companies take forever for approval, but if they've already got the ball rolling on cancer vaccines, then I am all for speeding them up.

exbrnxgrl

olma,

Good question about restaurant employees and there is a simple way to deal with it. Ask the owner or manager of said restaurant if they require proof of vaccination for their employees. Increasingly businesses are requiring employees to show proof of vaccination or have weekly tests. This is the case with my former school district and that general info is available to the public. Because the public is aware of this there is no need for families to approach staff individually to see proof of vaccination or negative tests. That part is managed by the school district. Now I don’t know if restaurants are publicly disclosing their staff vaccine/testing but I bet they’d be happy to tell you if you asked.

trinigirl50

Thank you to those who took the time to acknowledge my reality. Covid is up close and personal for me. And that doesn't take into account when I was doing symptom checking with Covid positive people who were isolating. I called them every day for 10 days and although most people got through it, I had more than enough people die on me. One particular person lost her father and brother, and was scared that she and her mother wouldn't make it either. It was unbearable, so we took turns calling her. Thank God, they both made it.

Illmae I respect your right to want to know more about the vaccine. I was really terrified getting chemo too (and I did end up in hospital due to chemo induced inflammation of lungs), but I did it. I thought long and hard about my 14 year old son (due to reports of inflammation in young males 16+), but in the end I felt the positives outweighed the possible negatives.

I fear for the world if we have become so brainwashed that we prefer to listen to internet "experts", politicians, and the opinions of like minded people rather than educated experts on a topic. They too are not infallible but at least there is logic and experience.

exbrnxgrl, I am absolutely from Trinidad. How cool of you to get it.

Anonymous

exbrnxgrl, true and I have not heard or researched if there are any requirements for restaurant workers here yet. There might already be. Good thing to look into though.

Different question - I thought it might be a good idea to get the antibody test to see how much protection I actually have but everything I see says that we should not be doing that. I don't fully understand why, even after reading explainers like this one -

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/covid-antibody-test-after-vaccine

exbrnxgrl

trinigirl,

If you look at my username you can figure out that I’m from the Bronx. Born, raised and ventured as far as Queens for college. NYC has a large communities from all of the islands. I adore the diversity and get lots of here in CA too (where I have now lived for more than 30 years).

Here’s an interesting si. I was listening to various officials from Louisiana urging citizens to evacuate their homes if they are ordered to do so. They very clearly stated that those who chose to stay will not be given priority for rescues and will not be rescued if it presents a danger to the first responders. This seems somewhat, but not exactly, analogous to doctors who say they will not serve the unvaccinated. i.e. You knew what the risks were, you were clearly warned and now you will have to deal with the consequences of your choice. Thoughts? I also want to add that officials in LA are concerned about moving hospital patients out of harms way because all of the hospitals in the state are heavily impacted by Covid19 patients. What a horrible dilemma. Thoughts and prayers anyone?

Beesie

trinigirl and Jane (jhl), thank you both for all you are doing on the front lines of this crisis. ❤️

The following article is from January 2018, which is interesting since it pre-dates the Covid crisis by 2 years:

mRNA vaccines — a new era in vaccinology https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

Here are the charts listing the human vaccine trials and cancer trials as of that date.

Edited to provide more clear versions of the cancer trial chart.

illimae

Just to clarify a few things, I do not feel picked on at all and I have been very upset by several people who bitched about wearing a mask last year or worse went without masking or distancing as an act of overconfidence or civil disobedience.

I’ve gone through a lot to stay alive since cancer and if a vaccine becomes available that does not contain PEG or Polysorbate 80, I would absolutely consider it but for now I will minimize the risk to myself and others the best way I can.

Yes, I am incredibly lucky to have not lost anyone to covid and for those that have, I am sorry and I totally get when the passion or anger comes from. With regard to pre existing conditions, I intended no blame at all, I just wonder about the data being reported and the difference between dying with covid vs from covid.

Finally, the mountain is real and I can’t wait, 2020 for me was recovering from brain surgery, 8 months of starvation due to partial vocal cord paralysis (from the brain surgery) and some cancer progression, covid was the turd on top, I am due for a break and this is it.

KBL

Beesie, thank you for posting that. I've looked at one so far for breast cancer. It doesn't look like there is a report on it. It has been completed. It had 31 participants. That doesn't seem like many. I'm going to keep looking at these and try to find results.

The second one is for triple negative with 42 patients and Phase 1. It’s active but not recruiting.

When I have time, I will be looking at each one. I’d love to have one or two that have results and more participants.

gb2115

Illimae...my concern is the polysorbate. I've had a reaction to the poly, and then the CDC warned about cross reactions with PEG. I was about to see allergy to get it sorted when I got my recurrence diagnosis. Everything came to a halt. So I'm unvaccinated, getting chemo and working in healthcare, in a building with a poorly enforced mask policy. I hide in my office every day...

I don't like how in our society it's almost like you're labeled as some bad person if you aren't vaccinated. Like "less than" somehow. I need to stay off social media probably!

exbrnxgrl

gb2115,

I'm sorry about your sensitivity to those ingredients. It appears as if you might have an allergy and though you haven't been allergy tested yet, I think most people would understand why you are not vaccinated.

This is a worldwide pandemic, something we haven't seen in a century. Personally, I feel it's important for me to be part of what stops this pandemic ( I understand that Covid19 may be with us for some time but getting vaccinated helps decrease the overall infection rate, hospitalization and death rate) and since getting the vax presents no imminent danger to me I consider the health of my community and society at large to be a priority. Do I know what this vaccine might do to me in 2,5,10 years etc? Nope but the crisis is happening now and I feel some peace in knowing that I am helping my fellow citizens today.Do the unvaccinated feel “less than"? I can't answer that as I know no one who is eligible, age and health wise, who has not gotten vaccinated but I would expect the unvaccinated to understand any limitations that are placed them as a result of their choice. You simply can't have it both ways during a public health crisis.