Rant away about COVID, the vaccine, etc.

runor

This thread is HOT! 

Mae, I HOPE I haven't crashed the thread, fortunately it seems not. 

As to the other comments, too many for me to keep them all straight : I am not sure what conspiracy I am claiming. I don't think anyone is injecting microchips into us or that the vaccine is designed to kill us. Never said that anywhere.  I've heard some pretty wild conspiracy theories, I do not subscribe to them. So I would like to understand where I am a conspiracy person.

Am I also against the flu shot? I'm not against any shots. I am against FORCE and COERCION and VAX PASSPORTS. But I have never said that I am against vaccines. So...not sure where that is coming from. I have said that I am on the fence about having one, waiting for different products than currently seem to be available in my area. So how this makes me against vaccines is a good question but let me say it again in case I wasn't clear, I am against FORCE and COERCION and VAX PASSPORTS. Not sure how to be any plainer.

Yes, there is a difference between tragedies and emergencies. Sometimes they are the same. Sometimes they are not. 

To the accusation that I must hate old people if it's okay for them to die. Well, it's true, on Sundays, for fun, I wander through parks and club old people sitting on park benches. For christ's sake! While there is a great warm rush of virtuous indignation in that accusation, ...give your head a shake. Is it OKAY that old people die? Well, no. But what exactly do you expect the outcome of old age to be? Another 100 years of life? Is the cry that the 85 year old was cut down in their prime, they had another 50 good years left? In Canada we did a shit job of protecting the frail, captive elderly. We knew very quickly who was getting this and dying from it and sweeping TARGETED measures should have been taken. They weren't. That we pay our care workers such shitty wages that they have multiple jobs in multiple care homes and went from one shift to another shift somewhere else, is a crime. We cry about the elderly and their loss but do NOT insist that the people caring for them are paid enough to keep them safe from shuffling shift infection. Although it is not popular to say, there is a hierarchy to tragedy, in assessing a situation. Compare what polio (thank you for clearing up that it was 3 shots, I don't remember getting 3 shots) and small pox did to kids to what covid does. Compare the numbers. Compare the long term effects. Not the same. Our kids dying in vast swathes is an all out global emergency - because we all hold the lives of our kids as ultimately important. Even with infections in the young rising, the numbers still do not hold a candle to those other diseases for death, permanent injury. 

Do I not realize that millions are dead? Yes. But...how many people typically die in a year globally? Do we normally see a million die a year and this year we have 100 million dead? That would be a serious issue! But that is not what's happening. There is a spike. Is it enough of a spike to warrant global insanity and violation of humans? No. If we love each other so much why is it okay to brutalize each other and call it 'safety'?  

Finally (well, not really, who am I kidding) the accusation that I am not a caring person is just ugly.   I am caring in the ways I considerto be important. I do a lot for my fellow man. I AM NOT CONVINCED that me getting a shot I don't want is a duty I owe to anyone. I am not convinced that a vaccine passport makes my country a better place. In fact I am sickened by the people who think it's okay. That they are suddenly entitled to more than anyone else for any reason.  Wow. Cool. I HATE masks. I fucking hate looking at masked people. It makes me cringe. When I see print ads with people in masks at stores and such I just want to barf. Canada is MASK FREE! Yet, I have faithfully worn a mask everywhere I have gone since 20fucking19. I roll my eyes tolerantly at the hysterical people who are out in public yet seem suddenly with the authority to tell me I'm not standing on the painted distance spot or going the wrong way down the grocery isle. In a great show of loving other people I have not slugged any of them in the throat. 

This is not a rant. I swear and yell during a rant. This only had a little swearing and no yelling at all. Upper case letters are for emphasis because for some unknown reason my italics button won't work.

 

Melbo

i assume (dangerous I know) that you were reading all of this quickly — but what I said is that “I don’t think you believe it,” but what you wrote previously made it SOUND like you were okay with the covid deaths as long as kids weren’t dying.

So “coercion” to wear a mask (aka mask mandates) are terrible and wrong because… you don’t like them and question whether they saved es, even though they have been proven to be somewhat effective?

Mandated vaccines for health care worker are coercion? It not? Because you otherwise seemed pretty pissed about how poorly our healthcare workers in elderly facilities are treated, which then brought danger to the elderly. Mandating vaccines for those workers seems like a great to protect the elderly and the workers.

You were clearly against vaccine passports, and I get why. I don’t have a problem with them because you can take your business elsewhere and the business’s requiring them can have customers who feel safe shopping there.

Comparing to polio or smallpox — what number of dead kids is an emergency to you? This is obviously a stupid question because the answer is zero and I am sure you are against kids dying — but your post really makes it sound like there is a number of dead kids we can hit for you to think “ok, NOW it’s an emergency.”

Did the comparison from earlier in this thread about how five airplanes worth of people are dying A DAY from covid not move you? Still not enough dead people for mask mandates and strong encouragement to get a vaccine?

And the last thing I want to point out here is that all of these measures were taken to PREVENT the truly horrendous number of deaths that covid could have caused if it ran through the world without all of the efforts that were made. It’s hard to see of course because it’s what didn’t happen.

I’m honestly asking because that’s how I read some of what you wrote and I know it’s easy to misinterpret.

i won’t have access to a computer or phone for most of the day — so my silence for the next few hours isn’t me ignoring this thread — I simply won’t be able to see it. I’ll catch up later and I’m sure there will be a lot to read

Anonymous

runor -

It's weird to hate masks so much. Really weird. Like a hysterical reaction weird. The virus is airborne. Why wouldn't I mask when around others? It's not a hardship. Relax.

I'm glad I'm on the other side of the country from you because I sicken you. I'm for requiring the COVID vaccine like other vaccines for infectious diseases have been required. That doesn't make me entitled. If that makes you want to slug me in the throat, you should get help. Seriously. You've mentioned hurting a doctor before.

The pandemic is a great threat. You can believe it isn't, but you're wrong. The death toll would be bigger if not for the measures we've taken. Still COVID-19 has measurably reduced life expectancy in the US. That's more than a spike.

By the way, I hope you're not taking ivermectin from your horses. You have fans here who would hate to see you hurt.

Here's an article about the harm to children.

https://time.com/6092446/pediatric-covid-19-surge/...

Notice the pattern of peds hospitalizations? The higher the vax rate, the fewer kids in hospital. Not all kids will die, but they all will suffer. Some for a long time. Note Florida has a large percentage of rich, white seniors vaccinated (excludes those in nursing homes). There was a push to get them vaccinated. I'm related (by marriage) to a few.

Melbo

on least question for runor from me before I really run for the day — on the topic of hierarchies: two patients need a ventilator, only one ventilator is available. One patient had the vaccine the other didn't. How does that fit into your hierarchy?

Anonymous

I'll answer! Data show unvaccinated have a higher risk of death. All other things being equal, the vaccinated patient gets the vent.

KBL

Curious if there has been a situation like this. If the vaccine works like it's supposed to, most of what I've heard is the vaccinated don't end up in the hospital or need a ventilator. I'm sure the vaccinated person would get the ventilator, but it shouldn't happen anyway. Now, if the vaccinated needs the vent for another reason altogether, I'm sure they'd still choose the vaccinated person.

If an unvaccinated person passes COVID to a vaccinated person, they have said they get far fewer complications. I don't want that to happen. I'm just stating what I've heard nonstop.

I don't understand if you're vaccinated why you are afraid to do the things you want. The hospital stats that have been shown here show it's more the unvaccinated in the hospital. I realize you don't want to get sick at all, but life doesn't work that way. Cold and flu season are on the way.

The testing for COVID is not perfect. There are many false positives out there. The testing needs to improve.

I may not be able to answer anyone's direct question or comments to me right away today.

Do me a favor and don't address this to me personally so that I don't feel the need to come back immediately and answer. I'll know you're talking to me, but I won't feel rude for not answering right away.

I'd also ask “all"members not to address anyone by telling them to calm down or relax. That is getting a little more personal. We all have a right to be upset about this shit situation.

Aram

I am vaccinated but I got my vaccine during chemo so most probably I don't have enough antibodies if any. My son is under 12 and not eligible for vaccines. Why do I care about herd immunity? At the moment it personally affects me. Second, even before February 2021, while my family and I were all considered low risk, we did everything we could to stop the spread. My child didn't see his grandparents for more than 18 months not to infect them. In fact we didn't have any visitors at home as per Quebec government directions.

Why do we care about unvaccinated? Because I value human life. The unvaccinated are not only harming themselves, they are harming others who are not able to get the vaccine or get enough protection from the vaccine. But you know that, don't you? Even if you didn't know a week ago, many people in different ways have said the same in this thread. So I don't believe you are really willing to hear it and it is going in circles.

MountainMia

Thank you, Aram. You answered that better than I could have. YES. I care because I value human life. I value others. I've been vaccinated, as have *most* Americans. Yippee. But even we can get covid-19, apparently. And so even we can pass it on to those who haven't been vaccinated, or those who have but didn't create immunity. I want to protect the children, the ill, and yes, even the ignorant and selfish. That's why I care. That's why I mask up in public again. That's (part of) why I'm frustrated and angry. I'm also angry about how much my life has gotten smaller in the last 2 years. I feel loss, and I feel cheated, as many of us do. So yeah, part of it is personal, but part of it is trying to be careful for those of you who won't or can't get vaccinated, even if you don't care.

Anonymous

Wait a minute, "All". People posted about being a conspiracy theorist, hating old people, and being uncaring, but my post about relaxing is called out?

My name is SerenitySTAT. It's in my nature.

At least I haven't called anyone names or accused them of stalking.

KBL - Trying to respond to me on the sly is not very mature. Do better. Don't respond to this. Just do better. 😁

Mavericksmom

KBL I am not sure why you think vaccinated people are "afraid" to do things? I assess the risk of anything I want to do. I still wear a mask indoors, any place I go. Why? Because I work with kids who can't mask and have health issues that make them particularly vulnerable to Covid, and I have a young grandchild who has a heart condition and is high risk for covid. Personally, I do not fear unvaccinated people. I would do the same if there was a huge flu epidemic in my area. Fortunately, even children can get a flu shot! Not true for Covid. Until all ages can get a Covid Vaccine, I will mask inside public places and avoid large crowds. (I don't like large crowds anyway, Covid or no Covid!)Thank you for starting this thread. I don't go on the Steam Room page, but I understand what must have happened there, so a big thank you for keeping that page free of Covid rants. When I had breast cancer (twice), I never expected another "Big C" would happen, but Covid entered the picture!

Not mentioned here, at least that I don't remember reading, is that others like myself went through mental hell trying to GET a vaccine! If you can sit back comfortably and think, do I or don't I want a vaccine, you don't come close to understanding what many of us went through. I worked in a school where I was exposed to positive Covid students and staff daily. I lost a family member to Covid. My siblings, my husband's siblings and their spouses and my DH, all retired and able to stay home, were able to get vaccinated. I registered to get a vaccine every place I could. I am past the age of 65, have health conditions that make me high risk for Covid, and I could NOT get a vaccine no matter how hard I tried. I "played" the RiteAid game, which is where I logged into that pharmacy (the only one in my area with the vaccine at the time) at midnight, and tried in desperation to click on an available appointment quicker than others. I do not excel at technology, so while I can use it, I wasn't fast enough. So night after night I lost precious sleep trying to get a vaccine. Do you have any idea what that does to a person's self worth? I had a mental break down, literally fell on the floor crying! I felt and still feel, that society sees me as a lesser citizen. I know logically that isn't true, it was "bad luck," but it sure feels true! All I wanted was a vaccine, the same one many are simply refusing. I want to say, how nice it must be to just have your opinion dictate whether or not you get a vaccine! I ended up settling for the J & J vaccine because that was all I could get. The only reason I was able to get that is because the Governor of PA sent all the states J & J vaccines to the school districts. I was on the first tier for my school, not because of my age or health, but because of the population of the special education students I work with!

So all I can say to any of you who can get the vaccine and are deciding not to get it is, "IT MUST BE NICE BEING YOU!!!"

GoldensRBest

Serenity - I had a videoconference with my MO this past Wednesday and she said that several times her patients who have had severe cases of covid, hasrequired her to explain to their care team that some MBC cases, though terminal, do not mean the patient is going to die soon. Those patients would have ended up with different care (ie, less care😳) because of their underlying disease. Scary for those of us who have MBC.

Anonymous

GoldensRBest - That's terrifying. Good thing your MO was on top of things. Thank you for sharing that. I'll tell my family to be sure my MO is aware if I'm hospitalized for COVID. I'm so glad you were able to avoid the ventilator. Has your fatigue decreased at all?

My kids have been going downtown by public transit. My younger daughter has mentioned that people stare at her when she's wearing her mask outside. I pity any fool who tries to get in her way. She may be thin, but she's fought much bigger men to get her black belt in jui jitsu. If it happens, I hope there would be video.

Rosiecat

KBL I'd been under the impression that this thread had been created by you in order for people on both sides of the argument to 'rant away'. I don't think that those who advocate vaccination or otherwise are being disrespectful, they are simply having their say on what is a very hot topic. The moderators, are here to point out when things are getting out of hand - so you don't have to be. Sanitising a thread where posters are encouraged to have a rant seems a bit counterproductive.

For myself, I'm following the science on this one, I'm double vaccinated (Pfizer) and looking forward to having a booster in the next few weeks. While I'm fervently hoping we can achieve herd immunity, this can only become a reality if the vast majority of us are double vaccinated. I will be wearing a mask and distancing for the foreseeable future, both for my own safety and the safety of others. As for the question of which Covid patient gets the last ventilator, the vaccinated one or the unvaccinated. I can only speak for the UK, but here, the patient who was in the greatest need would be given it, irrespective of vaccination status. That's always been the way in our National Health Service and long may it remain so.

Take care everyone.

Anonymous

I was about to comment on the criteria for Triage if ventilators are scarce, and now I see Goldens comment, too

What I wanted to say was - do we really think vaccinated versus non vaccinated would be the sole criteria?

Because I don’t think that would be the case.

Do we think that an unvaccinated 20 year old should or would go without a ventilator so a vaxed 80 yo can have it?

Or even a vaccinated 65 year old? Yes throw in MBC and other terminal and even some chronic illness. Now it becomes even more complex.

The person with more “quality adjusted life years” remaining might be the one getting the ventilator. Bioethicists have their algorithms and I doubt vaccination alone would be the criteria.

This isn’t an argument for or against vaccination. Just throwing it out to further the thought experiment re triage.

Although...it’s definitely something that someone with MBC might want to consider. We sure might want to have as many “points” in our favor as we can

And - it kind of does bear out the way runor was thinking when she talked about a hypothetical disease that primarily kills children. If we read bioethics literature, there’s a hierarchy and 80 years old don’t fare too well.

I say this not because I think dead grandmas are nothing to worry about. I AM GRANDMA for Pete’s sake! And I value my elders. My paternal grands and great grands lived very long healthy happy lives - people should not be written off because they’re old or otherwise vulnerable. But when ventilators are scarce or some similar scenario, vaccination just might not be the sole criteria that’s used to decide who gets care.

Anonymous

I did say, "All other things being equal".

The thread is now hidden. I had to search for it. GoldensRBest just posted something very important for MBC patients hospitalized for COVID. It's hidden. Exactly what I didn't want.

KBL

SerenityStat, I’m sorry you felt I singled you out. I had seen it happen a few times,and to be totally honest, I didn’t realize who had done it. When I saw your name show up on here, I was actually glad to see it. I want you here. I hold no grudges, and maybe we can start over and be civil to each other. I’m not sure if you’ll believe me, but I do mean that.

MavericksMom, I’m so sorry about what you had to go through with trying to get the vaccine. I don’t wish that kind of stress on anyone.

Maybe “afraid” was not the right word. The reason I have that thought is because people say they still don’t feel comfortable doing things they used to, even though they have the vaccine.

exbrnxgrl

Afraid? I am fully vaccinated and have even had a booster but I am not afraid. What I am is risk averse and not really wanting to contract any case of Covid19, mild or not. I am very confident that should I have a breakthrough case it would be mild but, TBH, I am not even remotely interested in contracting a mild case!

Seriously, she who shall not be named , I am not sure what you’re looking for at this point. Some of the things you want to know will only be known over time. There are no guarantees in life but the pandemic is now and we have to deal with it now. If you don’t have faith in the untold numbers of medical researchers who have worked like crazy to develop the vaccines, if you don’t trust science, if the stats regarding hospitalizations and deaths are meaningless to you then there’s not much to say. It is clear that you were looking for support for not vaccinating and for the most part, that didn’t happen

KBL

I have to say the thread is moving so fast, I may miss some posts. I keep going backwards after I post because I don’t want to miss any.

I only asked that people please don’t tell others what to do, as in calm down or relax. That serves to only heat things up and not have an effect on keeping both sides wanting to comment. I may be wrong, but I don’t want to be told to calm down if I’m pissed. As was said, this is a rant page. We’re all allowed to be pissed as hell.

KBL

exbrnxgirl, I don't know how many times I have to say I was not looking for support for not being vaccinated. I can't make you believe me. I knew most, if not all comments would be fromthe vaccinated. How could I look for support when I knew that?

The only reason I asked for not being named is because I hate not being able to comment when someone addresses me. That's just part of my personality. I do not want to be thought of as ignoring or not commenting right away as my being rude. If you feel the need to address me personally in your response, please feel free. I'm just saying please don't consider me rude when I don't respond right away. Believe it or not, I appreciate everyone on this thread, and all of our time is very valuable.

I will try to choose my words more wisely. I see that the word “afraid” is just as off-putting as telling someone to calm down. I am seriously not trying to piss people off more.

exbrnxgrl

“ Maybe "afraid" was not the right word. The reason I have that thought is because people say they still don't feel comfortable doing things they used to, even though they have the vaccine.“ - person who shall not be named

Good G-d! We know that breakthrough cases occur. We know that the vaccinated can transmit the virus. These are not closely guarded secrets. We all know that being vaccinated does not mean throwing caution to the wind. And the bottom line? We each decide what level of risk we're willing to accept not only for ourselves but for the common good.

I am going to be honest with you. Get the vaccine or don't get the vaccine but please stop this disingenuous attempt to appear to open about the vaccine and gather vaccine information.

PS: I just read your post. IMO? Disingenuous, sorry if you don’t realize that your posts come across that way. Also, no one will care if you don’t personally respond to them, really. That is the nature of online forums.

KBL

It seems I'm also pissing you off by asking to not be addressed personally, as I'm a little busy today. Please feel free to put KBL if you want to.

Goodness, now it seems you know what I have going on in my head. Disingenuous. Okay. Respectfully, I am still researching and trying to figure this whole shit show out. It’s your choice to believe me or not.

exbrnxgrl

Pissing me off? Not in the least. I may be passionate in my opinions but I don’t sweat the small stuff. I was actually amused by your request and was going to ask what house you were in. I’m in Gryffindor but we never mention he who shall not be named…

KBL

I have no desire, after thinking carefully yesterday, to shut this thread down. If the mods come in here and feel there are personal back-and-forths going on, they may do it for us.

Believe it or not, I feel everyone has a right to rant here. Do I agree with everything and everyone? Of course not. Do I want to hear it anyway? Yes, I do.

Anonymous

Why is the thread hidden?

KBL

Seems no words I use are the correct word.

Mavericksmom

SerenitySTAT Thank you for posting that the thread is now hidden. I thought it was that the moderators blocked me from seeing it. I am not even sure if they can do that, but it is what I thought. I then thought it was due to my post. I re-read what I wrote and realized it was exactly the rant I needed to let out and I didn't think it would be offensive to anyone. I am not sure if my rant caused this or not but I hope not. All I could think was "now I am being invalidated again by posting honestly what happened to me." Seriously, hiding this thread does nothing to help anyone, and for me, it was a reminder that my life is not all that important. I thought it was a great thread and the purpose for starting it was for the right reason!

KBL, thank you for your kind comment. No need to apologize! Do you know why this thread is now hidden? I am truly sorry if it was due to my post! I am taking this as a sign that this website, the only form of "social media" I use, is not a place I should visit anymore.

exbrnxgrl

LOL! I have no clue about what's going on in your head as mind reading is not a gift I've been given. However, your subtext is quite clear so no mind reading needed.

illimae

Good luck today! See you later, if you are free, if not, next time 😁

KBL

I am so sorry the thread is hidden for some. I can see it. I will get ahold of a moderator to ask. Can you see it if you search for it in the search box? This is exactly what I was afraid was going to happen. Please let me know privately if you have to.

KBL

exbrnxgirl, please stop with the back-and-forth like this. People are now saying the thread is hidden. I don’t want that to happen.