STEAM ROOM FOR ANGER

Lita57

Makes you want to transition as soon as possible.

But at least if you get a bullet to the head, you die quickly.

Having a rough time with swelling, pain and insomnia-ironic 'cuz I'm so fatigued and weak. I've been thinking of making a sign, and instead of putting a destination on it like we used to do in the 70,s (e.g. Monterey Peninsula or Big Sur), I'd go stand out on the freeway overpass with one saying, "PLEASE! Someone shoot me in the head!"

We have dozens of gangs up here. I wonder how long it would take one of the boys (or girls - we have plenty of girl gangs now, too) to cap me in the head?

It's a win-win as I see it...I'd be gone and I wouldn't have to pay X thousand dollars for the suicide pills.

Physician Assisted Suicide....geez! Give me a break! YOU have to go to those appts and get TWO drs to sign off on it, take a psych eval, write letters, and then YOU have to smash up the 30-odd pills and dissolve them in a beverage, and YOU have to suck it down w/out barfing and hope it STAYS DOWN until it does the job, which could take hours. The process can take weeks, so you have to get the ball rolling PDQ. Don't wait until you're on Hospice, totally bed-bound, and only semi-coherent or you might get denied

Why can't it be like The Netherlands? They literally come over to your house, give you an injection, and that's that. I understand certain vets here are now performing this type of service so you don't have to traumatize your pet any more than you have to. S/He dies peacefully in the comfort of his/her own home and you can spend as much time with them as you want to.

Sigh....unfortunately, we won't see this type of service for humans for at least several more decades. Really pisses me off. Our pets get better treatment than we do. They don't have to suffer, but if you walk on two legs (or in my case, BARELY SHUFFLE across the floor with a cane/walker) YOU have to suffer to the bitter end unless you want to cough up the dough, pay for the pills and gag them down yourself. (Physician Assisted Suicide...my rear end.)

Sucks to be human, that's for sure!!!

L

Artista964

My friend and I were discussing sure ways to die. Couldn't find 1 sure way. Shot in the head may not kill you.

wrenn

In Canada we have Medical Assistance in Dying. It is covered by our health care so there is no cost. My friend set a date and invited her friends to come to her hospital room in Palliative Care to be with her at the time. The physician would be there at 2pm to do the injection.

Her mom emailed all the friends in the morning to say that my friend had changed her mind but welcomed company if they still wanted to come. She died a couple of weeks later.

I feel really lucky that finances are never a consideration when it comes to health care and relieved that we have medical assistance when it gets to be too much.

I am so sorry to hear about struggles elsewhere.

mara51506

I feel the same way as you wrenn.

runor

Wrenn, discussing assisted death with a friend who is a death doula, she said there are still glitches in the Canadian system. As it stands, once you have all the paperwork in order (whatever that is) there is a 10 day wait before they will 'put you out'. If, in that 10 days, you become comatose and unresponsive, THEY WILL NOT ASSIST YOU TO DIE. You must be alert and of sound mind and on the day of your death when they ask you if you still want to die, you must be able to say yes. If you are a curled up, quivering blob that's how they leave you.

She said the problem with that is that people who might yet have weeks left to live fairly well, weeks that they could spend with their loved ones, are RUSHED to a perhaps earlier than required death for fear that they will become vegetative and be denied death when they most obviously need it. The system is still hung up on the legalities and not being responsive and fluid enough to deal with the real needs of people. I had never thought of it in that light. People choose to die when things are still pretty good because wiating until things are bad means they might be denied. I had hoped that one could get all the paperwork in order and then when things are super bad, call the doc and say come tomorrow at 10. Nope. Even if your paperwork is all in order well in advance, you still wait 10 days from the initial phone call. I can see where this is both good and bad.

DogMomRunner

I don't know how the legal system is in Canada. But in the US,the threat of legal action is one reason we don't do right by those with a terminal illness. To me, it is sad and ridiculous that we can't figure out a better way. At least Canada has something in place, although imperfect

JCSLibrarian

The shootings leave me so sad. The lack of choice those people had about how their lives would end is what makes me sad. The same can be said of not having a choice to end your life when you want to die with dignity during an illness. At least Canada realizes this is a possibility. The USA not so much.

jaycee49

I found some very specific info on a website by an organization called Death With Dignity. For instance about the process of taking the medication:

Preparing and Ingesting the Medication

The most frequently prescribed medicine is a large dose of a sleeping medication, most commonly a barbiturate, in powder form. It is mixed with about 4 ounces of liquid before you, the person for whom it is prescribed, drink it. The full amount needs to be ingested within two minutes. Because the medication has a rather bitter taste, have a small glass of a delicious tasting liquid handy to cleanse your palate after drinking the entire amount of life-ending medication. Most patients fall asleep peacefully about 10 minutes after drinking the life ending medication, and die in 1-3 hours. In about 5 percent of patients, it takes longer than 6 hours to die, but they sleep comfortably the whole time, until death ensues.

I'm pretty sure I could not drink 4 ounces of a very bitter liquid in 2 minutes. I have trouble swallowing all my pills. This is not the great option it is purported to be. Disappointing. Oh, and it is not even legal in my state.

jaycee49

Here is what Death With Dignity says about cost:

Cost varies based on medication type and availability as well as the protocol used (additional medications must be consumed prior to the lethal medications at an extra cost). The following are only estimates as prices and availability change. The actual prescription depends on the physician's assessment.

Pentobarbital in liquid form cost about $500 until about 2012, when the price rose to between $15,000 and $25,000. The price increase was caused by the European Union's ban on exports to the US because of the drug being used in capital punishment, a practice that is illegal and deemed deplorable there; many international pharmaceutical companies don't export the drug to the United States for the same reason. Users then switched to the powdered form, which cost between $400 and $500.

The dose of secobarbital (brand name Seconal) prescribed under death with dignity laws costs $3,000 to $5,000.

Due to the increase in the cost of Seconal, alternate mixtures of medications has been developed by physicians in Washington state. The phenobarbital/chloral hydrate/morphine sulfate mix produces a lethal dose that is similar in effect to Seconal. The cost of this alternate mix is approximately $450 to $500. A second alternative, consisting of morphine sulfate, Propranolol (Inderal), Diazepam (Valium), Digoxin and a buffer suspension costs about $600. A compounding pharmacy will need to prepare each mixture.

jaycee49

Link stolen from Frisky on the Fenben thread:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/well/live/cancer-treatment-at-the-end-of-life.html

The NYT will try to get you to create an account but you don't have to to read the article.

wrenn

Runor, I agree that having to give consent immediately before is a drawback but it is still better than it was before and it is also paid by the government so you don't have to do 'back alley' searches for methods.

We also have terminal sedation which is often used. I was visiting my friend in hospice and apart from her incontinence she was quite comfortable and we were laughing and she seemed fine. A couple of days later she was having trouble swallowing because of the morphine and she was basically tired of it all so they arranged the terminal sedation. She was gone in 24 hours.

Our system isn't perfect but I sure feel lucky to live here.

jaycee49

I think we have something like that here is the US called palliative sedation. (We never use the word terminal here.) Regularly done, I think. Case in point, Beth Chapman, Dog the Bounty hunter's wife. It was all over the news that she was put in a "medically induced coma." No one from the death with dignity movement jumped on that but they should have. Or maybe not. The lifers would have jumped back and we might have lost that, too.

jaycee49

ASA Clarifies Medically Induced Coma Versus Sedation

Written by Rachel Fields | January 20, 2011 | ">Print | Email

Medically induced comas differ from sedation in the level of unconsciousness, according to a release issued by the American Society of Anesthesiologists.

According to the ASA, a medically induced coma occurs when a patient receives a controlled dose of an anesthetic, typically propofol, pentobarbital or thiopental, to cause a temporary coma or deep state of unconsciousness. Patients in medically induced comas generally have brain injuries with swelling that have not responded to other treatments. The coma is able to protect the brain from swelling by reducing the metabolic rate of brain tissue and cerebral blood flow.

Sedation, on the other hand, puts the patient in a "semi-conscious state" rather than a very deep unconscious state, allowing the patient to be comfortable during surgery with minimal side effects. Sedation can be administered in ASCs and physician offices, whereas medically induced comas are only appropriate in ICUs.

Lita57

I realize a gunshot to the head may not necessarily kill you....especially if it just grazes the side of your head or creases your forehead.

Also the size and caliber of the bullet makes a difference. A small caliber bullet won't do as much damage as one shot from a .44 Magnum, "The GLOCK 19 Gen4 pistol or the 9 mm Luger offers great firepower while allowing to shoot quick and accurately. It is ideal for a more versatile role due to its reduced dimensions, without sacrificing all-important magazine capacity."

ALWAYS practice weapon/gun safety!!! Keep them locked up (in a large fire-proof safe, preferably), and keep the ammo/rounds locked up separately, too. My dad taught all his kids how to shoot and to be respectful of the dangers involved with firearms. He emphasized that they are TOOLS not TOYS. He always displayed his rifles proudly, including a Japanese rifle he got in WWII.

WE DESPERATELY need GUN CONTROL!!! They are too easy to get. And don't get me started on gun shows! Some people say the NRA owns/controls this country. I wouldn't doubt it.

wrenn

I live in Canada. I have never seen a real gun and haven't known anyone in my 72 years who owns one. My heart is breaking for Americans hurt by guns. I hope this latest one helps create some changes,

candy-678

Lita- Yes we need Gun Control. And Yes the NRA runs everything. Money, money, money.

runor

Wrenn, I agree. Although our system is not perfect, it's better than nothing at all. I think of the friend I lost early June to terminal pancreatic cancer and she decided when it was time to go. I miss her daily emails.

Meow13

I really was so sad for that 25 year old mother killed protecting her baby. God

JCSLibrarian

My DH is a gun person. He used to hunt, but not much anymore. We own several guns that are locked in a gun safe requiring two keys to open. I personally hate guns. After watching PBS Newshour tonight, my DH admitted he thinks AK-47s and large gun magazines should be banned. Hallelujah! One at a time we can make change.

wrenn

Runor, I'm so sorry about the loss of your friend. So sad. I hate this damn disease. Take care.

Artista928

And everyone needs to vote!

molliefish

it's kind of sad really and I say this as a professional police officer. Here we have beautiful women and men suffering terminal illness and having little to no access to those medications that will help them transition peacefully yet we gave this EPIDEMIC of young healthy people dying from fentanyl overdoses. Doesn't any one but me see the answer in front of us?

runor

Molliefish, you remind me of what happened when I had my lumpectomy, which went wrong, and I had to have a second surgery that same day to deal with the bleeding and mess and I ended up black and blue to my pubic bone! The worst part was the pain. I was in excruciating pain, unlike anything I have experienced, and all they gave me was Tylenol. It was not enough. It was nothing. I still get livid when I think about that miserable and ugly part of this experience- like having cancer wasn't bad enough!

My DD works at a rather rough and rugged place with sketchy people. Worse than sketchy. Some are convicted. At least this place gives these people the chance at a job, but it makes for an interesting work crew. Everyone on her crew knows who I am and they all knew I was having surgery and word got out that I was having a very bad time. That I was suffering. DD came home from work one day and said, with a sigh, "Mom, I normally do not even talk to these people because they are nothing but trouble, but they all came up to me to talk about you and to put it bluntly, every known drug available illegally has been offered to you by people that most of us would run away from if we met them in an alley. If you feel the need for a little coke or heroine or meth or acid, oxy or you name it, they all said they could help you not be in pain. Mom, YOU WILL DIE if you take drugs from those losers. But I am just telling you this because they made me promise I would."

Anything that involves the govt and regulations has a level of stupid attached to it. A level of what's good for the law and not what's good for the people. Maybe somewhere out there there's a meth dealer with a fentanyl connection that could act as the Goodbye Dealer. I think I know what you're saying, Molliefish, where's a good, lethal dose of fentanyl when you need it?

prehistoricmom

Grateful for this forum & women speaking the truth. Not enough attention to the fact that thoughts about death are normal. Grateful also to see cautions about guns. Very new to dx but have been thinking about dwindling emotional resources to fight BC. 100% support people's right to choose a death w/dignity. Just in case, posting suicide prevention hotline: 800-273-8255 or text HOME to 741741 ❤️

bella2013

I am back at the hospital for my husband (same place where I had my breast surgeries and ultimately my BMX with DIEP Flap Reconstruction). I wasn’t expecting being here to trigger the PTSD. Wow, did it in a big way. My husband’s procedure is completed and I will probably see him in a little while. Getting ready this morning took me back to Feb. 22, 2018. I can now appreciate how he felt on that morning. I remember that morning with humor because I took two Xanax before I left the house. I was flying high and I was ready to get that surgery behind me. Interesting that my body has a different memory and different reaction to this environment.

I look back now and wonder how I made it through that difficult time. I can only think the warrior side of me arose and took over. I am grateful for her🤗💪🏻🙏.

Here’s to the warrior spirit in all of us

jaycee49

Bella, I can totally see how that place could trigger PTSD. I think most of us suffer from it at least a little.

I'm remembering your AMEN to my post about DH's and Amazon. How we'd be rich? Just to add to that theme, when mine receives something he likes, he buys another one. They might never have it again, right? He was looking for some switch to replace a broken one the other day and was afraid he didn't have any. About ten minutes later he asked, "guess how many of these switches I have in the closet?" I guessed two. No, he said he had three. Is this hoarder behavior I am describing or just being prepared? I'm not sure.

bella2013

I think if they are left alone for any period of time I do believe they might attain hoarder status

Lita57

That's what I worry about. Both DH and DD have the "hoarder gene" as his late mother had rooms that were filled with God knows what. I have to holler at them to pick their crap up off the kitchen table ALL the time. Mail, receipts, old catalogs and magazine, pens/pencils galore, glasses, phones, wallets (and they wonder why they can't FIND their stuff). If I can't sit down at my own kitchen table for a meal, it really pisses me off. I try to corral some of that stuff in containers, but it does absolutely no good, And then there's my DD's bedroom - it stinks and you don't even want to walk through there - you're taking your life in your hands.

I tell them, "You can turn this place into a hoarder's nightmare after I'm gone, but as long as I'm still here, put your damn crap away or I'LL THROW IT OUT." I've actually done that before, but they go and fish it out of the garbage/recycling bins (.

L

jaycee49

Lita, we have a really big great room. Kitchen, dining room, den combo thing. You know what DH did? He bought a second kitchen table.

Lita57

Maybe you can sell the older one?