I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

pip57

A lady here was sent a very disturbing email from a "friend" about this last year.  There will always be people who believe these things without question just because it supports their belief system.  

barbe1958

Anne, your body doesn't "know" you had an abortion or not. For all it knows you had a miscarriage (not YOU, but you in general...) so there is no way there could be a link!! In fact, isn't early pregnancy a good thing against breast cancer? So those teens having abortions would have a leg-up, if you pardon the pun.

Wabbit

Those who do not understand history ... just repeat it.  Sad.

Korea - Vietnam - Iraq is another example.

Newt has too many skeletons in his closet. 

  

ADK

What is infuriating me is that the state of Indiana is trying to legislate lies.

208sandy

Pip - is Peter King the new Joe McCarthy - I think so.

Sandy

ananda8

Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were Christian ( Oklahoma City bombing).  The Aryan Nation membership are Christian. The Covenant the Sword and the Arm of the Lord (CSA) is Christian. The Ku Klux Klan membership is Christian.  The Phineas Priesthood is Christian.  All are terrorist organizations according to the FBI. 

Why isn't King investigating Christians?

Anonymous

As I pointed out to them, if there were a legitimate link between the two, wouldn't BCO tell us?  Wouldn't it be listed as a risk factor? 

How many of us were told that diet, alcohol and being overweight are probably significant risk factors for breast cancer before our diagnosis?  There may not be a definitive "if you do this you get cancer, and if you don't do this you won't" yet, but that doesn't mean there is no link.  That means they don't really know yet, but if they even suspect it, wouldn't you rather that women made a fully informed choice? 

Isn't that what being "pro-choice" is supposed to be all about, letting women have all the facts and then deciding for themselves?

ADK

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

crazy4carrots

Because he's a bigot, and is just trying to make a name for himself?  Find an enemy and make it your "crusade".  Stir up fear and loathing of the "other".  Typical Joe McCarthy tactics.

Just read in the paper today that fully 1/3 of radical muslim terrorist threats in the U.S. have been brought to the attention of the FBI by.....wait for it......muslims themselves -- you know, the vast majority who are peace-loving, peace-keeping and fighters (in the U.S. Armed Forces) for the American way.

konakat

It is reprehensible that Indiana's Turner is using breast cancer and bogus theories to push his agenda. 

Bren-2007

Good point Notself.

rosemary-b

Peter King si certainly getting a lot of publicity. I had never heard of him before this.

River_Rat

Notself, don't forget the Hutaree Christian militia group.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/0329/Who-is-David-Brian-Stone-leader-of-the-Hutaree-militia

Medigal

notself:  Just because a person calls themselves a "Christian" doesn't mean they follow the concepts and ways of Christ.  We have radicals in all religions, imo.  I don't think the Timothy McVeigh's and Nichols are a true representation of what real Christians are like no more than all Muslims are extremists.  We have good and evil humans in every religion.  Unfortunately, the evil ones get the most publicity.

pip57

"Isn't that what being "pro-choice" is supposed to be all about, letting women have all the facts and then deciding for themselves?"

I think most of us would agree with that statement.  But made up 'facts' doesn't make it true.   http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/abortion-miscarriage

"Abortion, Miscarriage, and Breast Cancer Risk

IntroductionA woman’s hormone levels normally change throughout her life for a variety of reasons, and these hormonal changes can lead to changes in her breasts. Many such hormonal changes occur during pregnancy, changes that may influence a woman’s chances of developing breast cancer later in life. As a result, over several decades a considerable amount of research has been and continues to be conducted to determine whether having an induced abortion, or a miscarriage (also known as spontaneous abortion), influences a woman’s chances of developing breast cancer later in life.Current KnowledgeIn February 2003, the National Cancer Institute (NCI) convened a workshop of over 100 of the world’s leading experts who study pregnancy and breast cancer risk. Workshop participants reviewed existing population-based, clinical, and animal studies on the relationship between pregnancy and breast cancer risk, including studies of induced and spontaneous abortions. They concluded that having an abortion or miscarriage does not increase a woman’s subsequent risk of developing breast cancer. A summary of their findings, titled Summary Report: Early Reproductive Events and Breast Cancer Workshop, can be found at http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/ere-workshop-report.NCI regularly reviews and analyzes the scientific literature on many topics, including various risk factors for breast cancer. Considering the body of literature that has been published since 2003, when NCI held this extensive workshop on early reproductive events and cancer, the evidence overall still does not support early termination of pregnancy as a cause of breast cancer. To view regular updates on this topic, please go tohttp://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/prevention/breast/HealthProfessional/page2#Section_280.BackgroundThe relationship between induced and spontaneous abortion and breast cancer risk has been the subject of extensive research beginning in the late 1950s. Until the mid-1990s, the evidence was inconsistent. Findings from some studies suggested there was no increase in risk of breast cancer among women who had had an abortion, while findings from other studies suggested there was an increased risk. Most of these studies, however, were flawed in a number of ways that can lead to unreliable results. Only a small number of women were included in many of these studies, and for most, the data were collected only after breast cancer had been diagnosed, and women’s histories of miscarriage and abortion were based on their “self-report” rather than on their medical records. Since then, better-designed studies have been conducted. These newer studies examined large numbers of women, collected data before breast cancer was found, and gathered medical history information from medical records rather than simply from self-reports, thereby generating more reliable findings. The newer studies consistently showed no association between induced and spontaneous abortions and breast cancer risk."

pip57

Patmom, I should add that I do agree with you about cancer and lifestyle choices.  I know that can be a "hot" topic here.  They are not necessarily the 'cause' of bc, but I do think they may have an influence.

Just wanted to let you know that we can agree on some things.  Nothing is black or white IMHO. 

River_Rat

Better link for those that want to keep track of the Hutaree case:

http://www.lenconnect.com/extras/hutaree 

River_Rat

Medigal, I agree that a terrorist is a terrorist and that there are radicals in all religions.  That's kind of my point. - and I believe Notself's point too.

ADK

Thank you PIP - the issue is lying to advance agendas - not pro or anti abortion. 

How would the conversation between the doctor and the patient go? 

"The studies done prior to 2003, which were flawed in their methodology, show that if you have this abortion, you may increase your chances of breast cancer.  The studies subsequent to 2003 show there is no connection."

What really bothers me is the studies (from the 70's and 80's) that show a miscarriage does not increase the chances of breast cancer because you couldn't help that, but if you have an abortion, it will increase your chances.  That was in the literature being handed out by my church.

River_Rat

Patmom and Pip57, I agree that lifestyle choices can be a factor in developing cancer.  That being said, I was an exercise and healthy food freak before cancer.  My siblings include smokers, alcoholics, drug users, non-exercisers and people who couldn't care less about fat, sugar, salt or anything but taste.

After I was diagnosed with two different cancers my sibs and my mom all brought this up and asked me if I didn't feel that watching what I ate and exercising, etc. was a waste of time.  My viewpoint was that if I hadn't started out in good shape treatment would have been much harder on me.

I do give myself more leeway now though.  If I want to eat a brownie, I'm darned well going to eat a brownie. 

pip57

Riverrat...I hear of so many who lived such healthy lifestyles and end up with cancer.  I would feel so angry at my body if that was my history.  I do wonder if your healthier habits kept cancer at bay longer than it would have otherwise.  

I have completely changed my eating and exercising habits.  However, I do not feel that I have given anything up. The changes were necessary.   I enjoy my new lifestyle.  And believe me, I will eat that brownie too!  I just won't do it every day. 

crazy4carrots

Will you two STOP talking about brownies!!!!!  I haven't had one, haven't made any, since before dx, and Oh, how I'd love one!  I purposely keep my bakery drawer low in stock so that I won't be tempted to whip out a bowl and butter and chocolate and..and...and...oh no, I'm weakening......

pip57

LINDA...put down the spatula!!  Take a walk to that lovely bakery by you and buy ONE brownie to ease your pain.  Otherwise you will end up eating the whole pan of brownies!  

leggo

Just thought I'd relate a story pertinent to the current conversation. Before disability, I was a dietician at my cancer center. I will never ever forget this.....I had to meet with a dying young lady (17), to address some swallowing issues. When I got into the room, it was absolutely filled with pop, chips and chocolate bars. Her mother looked at me and said I must be horrified by all this junk food in her room. She then proceeded to tell me how she made sure she never fed any of her children anything but healthy, organic food and no junk food was ever allowed in their home, yet there was her daughter, 17 and dying.  Her pain and guilt was so evident on her face when she said all her daughter wanted now was all the stuff she couldn't have before. I think there's a lesson there. 

Moderators

Just want to share a link related to Anne's post:

http://www.breastcancer.org/tips/fert_preg_adopt/new_research/20061016.jsp

River_Rat

"A lovely bakery by you" - Oh my word!  Now that would be dangerous.

Linda, go in buy one brownie, don't look around at anything else, maybe put some Vicks or something under your nose before you go in so you can't smell anything either.

If it helps I had spinach salad for dinner last night. 

ADK

Thank you, Mods.

pip57

Gracie, my daughter died of cancer at 16.  At her first onc appointment at the hospital I couldn't believe the 'bad' food that kids were eating.  I quickly learned that we were happy when she could eat anything, healthy or not.  

ADK

Gracie,

That is so sad.  I hope that mom has overcome her guilt.  Regrets are the most painful part of life.

PIP - I am so sorry you lost your daughter.

Bren-2007

http://www.breastcancer.org/tips/fert_preg_adopt/new_research/20061016.jsp

Copying Melissa's link for easy access.