I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

Marple

I don't see the Kk's posts have been reinstated.  Maybe she's out picking brussel sprouts.

Edit to add~Kk's posts have been reinstated.

Edit to add~almost all.

Thank you Melissa for the thankless task of sorting this out.

leggo

Thanks Melissa....as I've always said.....religion divides people, belief in something unites them. You really don't get enough credit for all the crap you have to deal with.

Moderators

Thanks for your understanding and support! It means alot.

Melissa

Alpal

Melissa, thank you for restoring the deleted posts which did not violate any rules. Can you elaborate about the rules that were broken - posts being deleted? Please address that rather than chastising us for discussing religion. Also, please fill us in on the progress the tech team is making to changes in the report function. Thank you.

Bren-2007

Has anyone seen KK this a.m. ... is she back on without restriction?  Glad to see Enjoyful back.  I hope Eff is back too.

Thanks again,

Melissa

IronJawedBCAngel

Melissa,

I was composing as you were posting, and while I appreciate that posts are being reinstated, are the bans against the deleted individuals being lifted, and are the reporters being reprimanded?

I think it is a slippery slope when we have to avoid religion as a topic when for some, it is very much a part of how they react and respond to a breast cancer diagnosis.  Why can we not just embrace diversity and allow others to have a different choice and a different opinion?

I do thank you for taking the time to sort this out.

Wabbit

What is the status of the changes that are supposed to help put a stop to the ability of the deleters to do this stuff? 

Because patting us on the head and reinstating posts is really not enough.  This crap is becoming epidemic all over the board.

1Athena1

I agree with Alpal - the solution is not to censor what we talk about, because these violations occur with all topics, including good old BC itself. Like her, I would also be interested in knowing about the progress of the changes.

We can't sweep things under the carpet. We have tried that - it seems like a good idea sometimes, but apparently it's not working anymore. Do the deleters remain unpunished?

E -welcome back!

-angel-

Melissa, since you're working on implementing this feature anyway, can you tell the community who the deleters are that did this on behalf of the community?

revkat

So Melissa thinks we should avoid talking about religion. WTH. Then I would suggest Melissa that you delete all religion-based threds, that you put in your BCO "rules" (which are ridiculously over controlling and never inforced) that users who put Bible verses in their signatures will be banned, and that any mention of a deity will be blocked.

What BCO needs to do is get a community team that understands how to use social media and fund them appropriately.

Most of the posts from the "moderation team" are condescending and ineffectual, this one is just plain stupid. 

-angel-

Also, I agree that subject matter is Not the issue!

Enjoyful

Thanks, Athena!  Glad to be back.  I think I made a mistake by removing some people from my "ignore" list.  Back they go again, and down goes my blood pressure.  :-)

Good morning, everyone!

E

1Athena1

Laura, it isn't my business, as you say, but thanks for the clarification.

Medigal

Sorry ladies but I think we have all just witnessed "Passover" and we are just in March!  The rules do not state that we cannot speak about religion.  I think we all discussed it in the manner obeying the rules so why single religion out?  Actually "anything" we discuss can break the rules if we do it in a nasty, obscene, or harassing manner.  I think pinning the problem on "religion" is just an excuse once again to "passover" the real issue:  letting us know who the deleters are!  I think Revkat hit it on the head.  We are just being condescended to and treated like children who don't deserve real answers.  No matter what subject we discuss the deleters can still play their sick games knowing Melissa will not reveal them to us.  How very very sad!

BTW, we have a poster "God Blessing" people on the Deletees thread.  Is she allowed to do this?  Some posters do not seem to appreciate her blessings. I think Melissa needs to scrutinize ALL the threads to protect us from harming each other with religion and actually "Blessing" one another!  Sorry Melissa but "you" were the one who decided to use religion as an excuse to "help" us so I think you need to follow through.  Hope you don't have to work overtime to catch all these abusers.    Have a great day ladies.  I think I will spend my time reading my Bible and learning how to "turn the other cheek".

1Athena1

Medigal, I just discovered something. This forum IS moderated. It's just that you and I and some other silly twits haven't realized it. It's moderated by the deleters, not by an unbiased third party.

Medigal

Athena:  I knew that!  Melissa's comment has actually given them continued control over how much they want to play their deleting game.  She just refuses to give them up so they have nothing to loose.  Bless you my child for discovering this great truth! 

1Athena1

Ha ha ha....it took me a while, Medigal, but I did it!

otter

Today's U.S. Supreme Court ruling on the protests by Westboro Baptist Church congregants is relevant here for two reasons (IMHO):

1) What the Westboro Church folks are doing, and their rationale for doing it, are widely regarded as disgusting and hurtful.  Even Chief Justice Roberts conceded that the "speech" being protected with the Court's ruling "...inflict(ed) great pain."  Yet, the Court decided, "On the facts before us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker..." (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/03/02/scotus.westboro.church/?hpt=T1).

Justice Roberts' statement continued:  "As a nation we have chosen a different course -- to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate” (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-02/anti-gay-funeral-protesters-win-freedom-of-speech-case-at-u-s-high-court.html).

The lesson in this is that, whatever our reaction might be to Eff's posting(s) or the remarks by KK, enjoyful, lewing, or others, their posts would undoubtedly be protected in the outside world by the First Amendment.  That's not the case here, of course, where a small minority of BCO members are able to stifle speech they do not like or agree with. I do think it's ironic that the deletions seem to be coming at the hands of people who claim to be defenders of the U.S. Constitution.

2) The second relevant issue is that, as onerous as the Westboro protests were, they "(were) not unruly; there was no shouting, profanity or violence."  And, the Court noted that the people attending the funeral were not a "captive audience" to the protests.  The protesters did not interfere with the funeral itself. If we flip the Westboro case around and think of those protesters as analogous to our deleters, we can see a problem.  Our "protesters" here are verbally abusive, snarky, illogical, etc., all of which would be protected speech (unless it became slanderous).  But, our "protesters" also take actions that result in harm:  removal of posts under false pretenses; logging on and acting under factitious user names; disabling other users' accounts.

FWIW, it no longer makes sense to me that only 5 BCO "members" (or fewer, considering sock puppets) can cause a post to be "Removed by the Community"; just 2 removed posts can trigger limited posting privileges; and 5 removed posts can result in a permanent ban.  Our "Community" consists of more than 90,000 registrants now; so it's far too likely that half a dozen people might get ticked off at something someone else says.  And, in that large a "Community", it's not surprising that there might be people who refuse to play by the rules.

...Which brings me to my closing comment:  I have been channeling a couple of scenes from the movie, "A Christmas Story" all morning.   The scenes I have in mind are those involving Scut Farkus and Grover Dill.

otter

208sandy

I too believe that we're not really getting anywhere with the mods - what is this "don't discuss religion" cr**p?  Every time there is a deleting "party" we get the Melissa message that we shouldn't discuss whatever subject - seriously the only subject we haven't been warned against is FOOD.

I say we get rid of the "report" button once and for all.  Glad Lewing, Enjoyful and Konakat are off restriction. 

Sandy

rosemary-b

A post upthread is a good example of why I will never delete anyone.

Anonymous

I didn't even hear about this Westboro "Church" until today... What a bunch of... *bitten tongue*.

Alpal

Rosemary - if you mean leaving it for all the world to see, I agree. Much more powerful than any deletion.

208sandy

Lewing wanted to post the following but couldn't and asked that I do so:

"Thanks Sandy and others I am unbanned for the moment,  However, until the moderators address the issues of bullies on these boards I am still one deleted post from being banned (not restricted, banned) And the bullies are well aware of that fact.  They know how to work the system.

Going after Eff in a co-ordinated, gang-style attack was absolutely despicable.  And going after Konakat was beyond despicable."

Lewing will be able to post this evening so look forward to hearing more from her then.

Sandy

1Athena1

((((Lewing))))

So glad to hear from you - and I look forward to this evening!

Anonymous

Wow, I've just read many posts and am astounded.  First I'm astounded by the disrespect a couple of people have shown toward Melissa.  She is doing everything YOU want....restoring posts, restoring banned people.  I can remember a time that we fought for chemosabi...she was banned and she was a lib and we loved her.  She ended up with stage IV and eventually she was "allowed" back on after much PMing. 

IronJawedBCAngel wrote:

I thought the "Tea Party" mantra was "Don't Tread on Me", don't deny individual freedoms, etc.  However, it seems the individuals doing the deleting have an agenda of controlling speech, religion, and any choice in many matters.

Who said Tea Party member has been deleting posts?  Puulllleeesseee prove that!

pickle141 wrote:

Laura, yes childish games and downright mean comments that you and some others make at your other home. Mocking people on a public forum is terrible and playing games by running back and reporting over there>>>>>>>with glee what happens back here<<<<<<<<<

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....why are you bring up another website?  I thought Melissa kindly ask you not to.  Would this be breaking a BCO rule...nah.  And, why are you visiting another website...for curiosity, stimulation, get those juices running...the ole adrenaline?  You gals post things right here that are very mean...it's just posted HERE...not on another website.  So, start one and we can have a contest.   

pickle141 wrote:  

I don't know the history of the bad blood here amongst a group of women but for Fu@$ sake, have some goddamn decency.....a line has been crossed here and I think it is absolutely despicable.

Moderators, I don't know what the answer is but I sure hope you find it. You may have people leaving this site forever and I know that would be a terrible disservice to so many women that need this site as an information tool and friendship.

I think using God's name in vein is despicable.  Of course you did capitalize it so I suppose that makes it different. 

gracie1 wrote:

...and here'e the thing. When you think someone's got an axe to grind, it's quite easy to figure out who it is. When they're not logging in to contribute, just to delete and pm, it kind of all adds up.

What adds up, gracie?  I pop in and out and I don't delete posts.  You may be surprised JUST WHO IS deleting posts.

1Athena1 wrote:

Shirley, I personally do not think you deleted the posts. You have guts, for one. But someone did.

LauraGTO, Tupelo, Patmom, 2ztus did any of you delete any of the posts by any of: KK, Enjoyful, Efflorescing or Lewing, and, if so, why?

I choose not to delete because I think it's best that one's posts stand on its own merit.  I believe you have some people in question WRONG.  Also, I believe it's up to Melissa to ask those questions or reveal the answers as to who deleted the posts.

rosemary-b wrote:

Shirley

Where is the outrage at konakat and eff, and several others especially konaka, being deleted. Lots of people have expressed their outrage, you three had not. I'm so glad you think Melissa will take care of konakat but as members of a support board isn't that our job?

Again, Elizabeth knows how I feel about her....she's my "Canadian" friend (I hope).  I care deeply about Eliabeth and what she's going through.  I may not agree with her on most things, but I do have great empathy for her.  I believe her to have a great sense of humor in this time of facing great adversity.  I certainly do not want her support system taken away from her.  However much I disagree with her on many issues she, to me, is a jewel.  Our differences do NOT define every aspect of our lives. 

BarbaraA wrote:

I don't agree with all who post here and I will respectfully disagree. That is the key to any good discussion and friendship. Respect.

Barbara, you are too sweet.  BTW, weren't you trying to read through the monstrosity of the HC Law?  Did you finish or understand what you read?

rosemary-b

Alpal

Sorry I was not clear. Yes I do mean leaving for all to see. People eventually show who they really are.

Anonymous

This is from Eff

Notself, what can I say? I know many women living in Saudi Arabia from diverse backgrounds who are happy and prosperous and would not leave Saudi under any circumstances. Have you actually spoken to Muslim women to ask thier opinion about the life of women in an Islamic society?

Regarding the Taliban, I find it odd that you credit your troops with being champions for women especially when they are leaving a trail of widows and orphans in thier wake while liberating the country. Are you saying the the objective of the U.S. militaryin Afghanistan is to protect Muslim women? We thought it might have something to do with the massive natural mineral deposits that were discovered which are said to dwarf those of the middle east.

Did you know that the U.S.compensates an Afghan women for the unlawful death of her husband or children $2,000.00 if she can proove that they were killed unlawfully? Would you accept this for yourself? Why are the Afghans lives of so little value? As I have said and will continue to say,  we Muslim women did not ask for the west to liberate us from our religion, our men or our clothing especially when women in the west continue to be raped, abused and murdered at such alarming rates and are still strugling for equal work equal pay.

Eff~

I don't know if this is one of Eff's posts that were deleted.  I clicked on her name to read some of her posts because I had not read all of them.

Eff, my DD worked for the local domestic violence shelter as a court advocate.  I know all too much about abusive men and how dangerous it is when a woman wants to leave the abuse.  She needs a plan in place before she leaves and sometimes that doesn't help.  And, those stupid restraining orders do not restrain a madman from either killing her or beating her or mutilating her body by throwing acid or gasoline on her.  It is sad.  It is wrong.  It transcends all class boundries.

My DD planned many "Take Back the Night Marches" that I attended and taped for her.  Many women that had been abused spoke.  It was a happy and tearful time.  Many womens' names were read who were no longer "with us".  You don't need to bring up our battered women because we are at least TRYING to address an issue that is almost UNADDRESSALBE.

Are you saying the the objective of the U.S. militaryin Afghanistan is to protect Muslim women? We thought it might have something to do with the massive natural mineral deposits that were discovered which are said to dwarf those of the middle east. 

I object to you saying that our military went into Afghanistan for "mineral deposits".  The lives of our young men and women are worth more than Afghanistan's "wealth".   And who EXACTLY are you referring to when you say,  "Are you saying the the objective of the U.S. militaryin Afghanistan is to protect Muslim women? We thought it might have something to do with the massive natural mineral deposits that were discovered which are said to dwarf those of the middle east."  Who exactly is WE?  Is this something that you are taught in your Mosques?

What alternative would you suggest for the women in Afghanistan when the Talban ruled?  Did they have shelters for them to escape to?  And you're saying that women not having rights in Saudi Arabia is just fine with them?  Could it be that they know no other way if that is true?  I wonder...do they use facebook?  If they did would that eventually educate them as to how as a women they are being treated. 

In a different post..Eff said:

Patmom, we are all children of Adam and Eve according to Islamic belief, so although I believe in defending the lives of Muslims who are unjustly attacked I feel equally responsible to protect the lives of non Muslims who are unjustly targeted. Do you think if I were at any of the locations that were targeted I would be warned or spared? I know that I would and my death would be justified by a number of bizarre excuses.

I don't suggest that you keep your head in the sand as ignorance begets ignorance, however if you insist on using actions perpetrated by unstable Muslims as a representation of Islam, I will refer to the Ku Klux Klan, child molesting priests and Rabbis who traffic human organs as a representation of Christianity and Judaism and we will see how far that gets us.

So, now all of the RADICAL extremists who are hell bent on distroying our way of life are "unstable Muslims"?  Where are these "unstable Muslims" being trained?  Who funded the 9/11 attack and so many other attacks in this country and around the world.  How about the attacks that were thawarted?  And how about the Ft. Hood shootings?  What about the man who was just arrested that came from Saudia Arabia who wanted to blow up President Bush's home and other places? 

The molesting priests have been convicted of their crimes.  I know of one who was murdered in jail because, you see, prisoners to not look kindly on child molestation (I have heard).  As far as the Rabbi thing...I know nothing about that.  I would have to research.  The KKK....don't even go there.  The majority of Americans IN NO WAY condone their behavior and we let them know.  Do you stand up and let the men in your faith who kill in the name of Allah know that you adamantly disagree with their behavior?  Would you march against a group of Muslims who professed to wanting to overthrow this country and fly the Islam flag above the whitehouse and support Sharia law (as we know it). 

Anonymous

I have so much more to say which I'm sure you have no interest in, but I'm tired.

I would like to ask EFF, why did you bring up this topic? 

1Athena1

Shirley, I think you've proven our point, which is that it is absurd for Melissa to think this can all be solved if we just stay away from certain topics. You never will, I never will, and pretending all is well  if we shut up and stop talking is no way to moderate a forum, let alone one of this size.

leggo

Shirley, If you had read my earlier post, you would know that I am speaking about the Stage IV forum, not this one. I KNOW who my stalker/deleter was..right from the horse's mouth. Everyone else can make their own assumptions regarding this thread. Maybe I don't get your question.

Edited to add: unsure why you took my comment personally.