I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

Anonymous

Erica31,

If there are misquotes in the link I posted please let us discuss it and if you can please provide corrections. If there are threats to this country do you think I will be exempted from them because I am Muslim?

Some of you are so kind and generous. Please forgive me if I have not responded to your direclty. There is only one of me and I am playing catch up.......

Eff~

covertanjou

I have read Infidel by Hirshi Ali, and I know that some people have tried to discredit her, but the people discrediting her are not very convincing IMO.  Regardless of whether you like her or not, that is HER life story.  

The Koran does not state that women should undergo genital mutilation, and it takes place in some African countries by non-Muslims.

Once again, Eff, I must disagree with you about "On a global scale, I suppose the policies of America and the west towards Muslim countries could be the root of the problem espceailly when the west has supported the brutal dictators that rule of them along with the policies towards israel and the Palestinians."

Americans HELPED Muslims to fight off the invasion by the Soviets, and the West were invited by Kuwait to fight off Saddam Hussein.  Yes, the West has supported some dictators, but do you suggest that the West should be punished for that?

Edited:  this is my response to Eff before the deletion.

lewing

I do think that non-Muslims tend to stereotype Muslim women who cover themselves -- the assumption is that they're demure and downtrodden and very traditional.  I can attest to plenty of counterexamples, though.  In particular, I think of one young woman who worked as an intern in my office.  She was very devout -- ate only halal food, prayed five times a day, always covered her head and didn't reveal any bare skin except her face and hands.  She was also extremely funny and a serious asskicker.  She went on to go to law school and is now a civil rights attorney.  

One of the things that impressed me most about her was the way she stuck with her principles in situations where it would have been much easier to compromise.  For example, her interpretation of modesty prohibited her from touching men, even to shake hands.   So I was holding my breath when the president of our organization met her for the first time, and stuck out his hand to her.  Would she shake it?  Would he be pissed off?  No and no: she very gracefully explained that she didn't shake hands with men, and returned his gesture with a slight bow and a hand on her heart.  I thought that showed a lot of gumption for a 22-year-old.

I should be clear that she was covering herself by choice, because it was important to her.  I totally agree that the record of Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Iran on women's rights issues is abysmal.  So is the record of Russia, China, and a lot of non-Muslim countries. 

L

konakat

I recently saw a documentary about female genital mutilation.  It's been around from long before the time of Mohammed.  There's even evidence of it on ancient Egyptian sculptures/reliefs. 

Anonymous

notself, I have not finished reading the first link you posted but I already see there is a problem. Not sure if you read, but I am a Salafi and I am also a Sunni. The article states Salafis call Sunnis enervators.Hmmm. I believe he means innovators. Big problem for me. Also,  I do not celebrate the Prophets birthday or any birthdays for that mater but he says I do....

I will read the article when I return, from driving my American made 8 cylinder truck to pick my son up from school.

So far not a credible article.

Eff~

Medigal

Bren:  I just have to respond to your post and do hope no Catholics on here get their noses out of joint.  What you wrote about David.  I love the Psalms too and agree with you about David.  I have to think that is how the Catholic Church came about with the confessionals.  When I was a child (and a devout, I thought, Catholic) it was like a game with me and my Catholic friends that we could do whatever we wanted and just make sure to get to the confessional on Saturday so we could get communion on Sunday at Mass and not go to Hell!  (Kind of like the "David" thing). 

However, what screwed me up and caused me to leave the Church was when I saw the long line of prostitutes line up for Communion on Sunday (hopefully, they had made it to Confession on Saturday) and the priest gave them all Communion knowing they were going back to their "jobs" just to redo it the next week and refused to give "me" communion because I had married a man out of the faith.  Even tho this man (a sinful Baptist!) joined me at Mass every Sunday because he knew it meant so much to me.  So....the prostitutes were allowed to play the "sin/confession" game and get communion but not me. It was then I decided I would leave the church.

However, David of the Psalms, could well have helped someone in the Catholic Church come up with the Sin/Confess/Communion thing, imo.   Yes, I also love the Song of Solomon (albeit the Church's love unto Christ).  So much beauty and learning in just one book!

Bren-2007

Tupelo .. what's Eff being Muslim got to do with lots of Jewish women on this board.  She was talking about her beliefs, not slamming anyone else or talking politics.

Bren

Anonymous

Don't know if the Koran condones honor killings, but it certainly does condone non-Muslim killings:

Qur'an: 9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an: 9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

Qur'an: 8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

1Athena1

All religions have segments, passages in their holy text and conditions under which they will condone violence. If you read the bible literally, my God, there are enough arguments to start WWIII. Laura, you go down a very slippery slope there. Religion has led to violence since time immemorial. It has consistently stalled progress, fueled prejudice and justified acts of villainy. It has stunted intellectual growth and caused much more misery than progress. The culture of religion has much, much value, as its tenets inform our sense of right and wrong. I also like the art and architecture. Other than that, "include me out." 

I, like many religious people, separate organized religion from God. I just don't believe in either, albeit for very different reasons.  

pip57

Slippery slope indeed!

Bren-2007

Ahh geez .. I just had to check and see what you guys were talking about with the slippery slope.  Yikes.

Geez .. let's not start throwing holy book quotes at each other.  The Old Testament is full of violence and calls to arms and wayward kings.

Bren

konakat

Just to get you started Laura (there are lots more):

 ²¹ "Attack the land of Merathaim
   and those who live in Pekod.
Pursue, kill and completely destroy them,"
            declares the LORD.
   "Do everything I have commanded you.
²² The noise of battle is in the land,
   the noise of great destruction!    (Jeremiah 50:21-22)

³ And if anyone still prophesies, their father and mother, to whom they were born, will say to them, ‘You must die, because you have told lies in the LORD's name.' Then their own parents will stab the one who prophesies.  (Zechariah 13:3)

Quotes from BibleGateway.com

1Athena1

I love leprechaun's signature quote:

"And on the eighth day, man created God."

konakat

Me too Athena!

lassie11

A quick search shows several verses in the Bible that advocate violence and killing too. There is no point in listing them. No doubt any document reaching back to ancient days has recommendations of violence. That's what people did then. We hope we have evolved.

bluedahlia

There's good and bad in all of us, regardless of religious beliefs.  When are we gonna stop this separation, this building of walls based on interpretations of these beliefs.

Humanity is doomed because we will never be enlightened enough to surmount this insanity.

floralgal

delete

Anonymous

No doubt, every religion quotes violence in some way. But just a reminder, we happened to be on the subject of the Koran. Ummmmm...chill!

Bren-2007

Laura .. how about you chill for a little bit.  What did you expect when you posted those quotes .. of course people would respond with other religious quotes of the same nature. 

Bren

konakat

Gee, are you the subject police Laura?

YramAL

I expect the deletions will be starting soon. 

bluedahlia

Laura, I'm always chillin! Just call me bluechillindahlia. I'm not a prophet but I know logic.

BarbaraA

Amen, Blue.

CherrylH

Medigal,

Sorry you had to leave the Catholic Church, but understand. Give us left leaning, open minded, come as you are Episcopalian a try. You might like the fit!!

Bren-2007

Cherryl .. I am so glad to see you .. Big hugs my friend!

Bren

CherrylH

Bren,

I try to keep an eye on  you and Blue and keep you out of trouble!!!

Hey it's March and you cansay Sarah Palin again. I actuallly prefer the way the Caitol Steps refer to her - Parah Salin and the Pea Tardy.

Anonymous

Hi tupelo,

Why is there a heads up because there are many, many jewish women on these boards?

Eff~

Bren-2007

Chaplain .. you made me laugh out loud .. sure hope we can get together again this year!

love ya,

Bren

CherrylH

Bren,

If I make you laugh, my day is a success. What's for dinner?

Bren-2007

Doritos and diet pepsi ... I need to get out the carrots!

Bren