What is forgiveness?

FireKracker

Barb----Leaf------both of you are amazing.Thank you sooo much for all ths wonderful info.I hope everyone who reads these responses get as much out of this thread as I did and still do.luv ya sistas.huggggs K

leaf

I have certainly learned some things since this thread started.  I visited my 94 year old aunt Margaret, who was mentally, if not physically abused by her daughter.  Margaret (who has Alzheimer's) is in a very loving nursing home (if I had Alzheimer's this would be the kind of place I would want to go), and the abusing daughter has passed away of lung and breast cancer.   My aunt and her daughter  (my cousin) lived together.  The cousin declared that Margaret 'was a vegetable', though Margaret was able to write letters to Margaret's sister.  My cousin, Margaret's daughter, had POA over Margaret.  My cousin locked Margaret in the house, and fed her sleeping pills 24/7.  The only thing my cousin would say to Margaret when she got home was 'here's your dinner'.  That's the only conversation that Margaret got all day.  Sometimes my cousin would not come back for days, leaving Margaret locked in the house.   

My cousin was asking everyone to take care of Margaret.  No one has the money to pay the $6,000 a month to pay for nursing home care.  Another cousin advised her to make Margaret a ward of the state, but my abusing cousin refused, preferring to go on abusing her.  (The abusing cousin also took all of Margaret's money.)

Last spring, the abusing cousin told another cousin that she (the abusing cousin) had 'breast cancer, then lung cancer, then brain cancer diagnosed by a dermatologist'.  She had not seen an oncologist, neurologist, or neurosurgeon.  We didn't know what was the truth.  This abusing cousin, over many years, also told a friend that she had 'worked with NASA', and 'built skyscrapers', and 'taught Bill Gates computer code before he became famous'.  The abusive cousin died late last spring.

I was so impressed by the nursing home Margaret was in. I was surprised at the sophistication that many of them had.  For example, when I showed Margaret a picture of her sister who was always smiling, I expected her to say 'happy', but she called her 'optimistic'.  When a caretaker drew a rainbow and was asking the group what it was (saying there was a pot of gold at the end of it), one person said that it was 'helium'.  Not right, but a sophisticated concept.  The atmosphere was filled with love and attention.  At least Margaret is not abused now.  Even the worst nursing home would be better than what she was getting at my abusive cousin's. 

barbe1958

leaf, there is a great article in the Canadian version of the Readers Digest this month about socio-psychopaths. It sounds like your cousin was one. Why did her family accept the blatant lies and not call her on them?? It sounds like she had the family wrapped around her lying little finger!

FireKracker

Damn the world is full of such sick bastards.There is a special place in hell for people like them...

Guess I still have lots of anger Barb......it takes somethng like Leafs cousin to bring it out in me...

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

leaf

Margaret only had 1 child, abusive cousin.

I certainly didn't know about it until my Good cousin (whose mother was Margaret's sister) who rescued Margaret told me.  Good cousin had contacted Elder Abuse programs, but they said they needed to have physical abuse signs (such as burns, bruises, broken bones) before they could act.  We didn't know what was true and what was not about abusive cousin.  We only knew something had happened to Margaret when we called the house, and the person who answered said abusive cousin was in at-home hospice, and had never heard of a Margaret!  We  called the police, who said Margaret had been taken to a hospital overnight, then to a nursing home, but they couldn't tell us where due to confidentiality rules.

Abusive cousin said to her last breath that the family should never know where Margaret went.  Good cousin, acting like she knew that Margaret was there, called every nursing home in the city, and finally found Margaret shortly before abusive cousin died.  (Good cousin lives VERY far from Margaret.)

Good cousin now has guardianship of Margaret. How sad that abusive cousin wasted so many of Margaret's good years, and Margaret's money.   Yes, Margaret 'let' her, but what's a 90 year old to do when they are locked in the house and are dependent on a sociopath for food, shelter, and companionship, and is getting Alzheimer's?

barbe1958

Well thank God that Margaret still has some time left on earth to heal, unlike bad cousin!! Such a sad, sad story, leaf.

leaf

Barbe-your earlier comment  on sociopaths was so helpful.  I did a little bit of surfing and found a podcast on sociopaths and narcissistic people.  This podcast said it can be very hard to diagnose, no real treatment in moderate to severe cases, usually they don't want to get help.  Some estimated the prevalence in the general population for narcissistic and/or sociopaths was about 5-10%.  That's a lot of destructive people. 

Hard to find humane ways of preventing those people from destroying others' lives. 

Good cousin said Abusive cousin said she couldn't keep boyfriends 'because Margaret scared them off'.  I have never seen Margaret raise her voice, let alone scare people.  The caretaker there calls Margaret 'Our Grace Kelly'.

barbe1958

leaf, reading the article gave me some closure on the job I'm off on LTD for. My new boss was definitely a socio-path!!! He recognized my strengths and set me off alone at a location by myself. I had a hard year dealing with it and finally gave up and went on STD. Now I'm trying for LTD. That guy ruined my confidence!!! In sales, confidence is SO important. I just lost the joy for my job...sigh. Glad you got some use out of the term too! Very high prevalence in our society and they tend to get boss positions!! Partly because they're ruthless with people - heartless and can do all the nasty stuff that bosses are supposed to do.

wenweb

I know this isn't the Book Lover's thread...There is a very interesting book entitled "The Sociopath Next Door.  If interested, it can be found on Amazon.

leaf

Barbe- that is SOOO awful about your boss.  What you said fit exactly with what the podcast I heard said - that they tend to get positions of power, partly because they're ruthless.  They hurt everyone around them, and destroy self-confidence. It must have been AWFUL, especially when that kind of person has power over you.  I hope you can heal from that blow.

Wenweb-thank you for suggesting that book - I will keep an eye out for it.

barbe1958

leaf, it was even quite worse than just being isolated. He would come up and visit with a couple of other managers and then tell me that no on liked me back at the head office!! I was stunned and looked at the other people and they just nodded their heads. I started to cry and he just looked at me. Nothing in his eyes. That is one of the signs. A normal human will react to tears in some way, whether positive or negative!

I don't believe in crying at work. I didn't even cry when I had to tell my old boss and the sales team that I had cancer and was going to be off for a couple of weeks getting a mast. It was the fastest way for me to get back to work. No chemo, no rads. I used to LOVE my job!!

leaf

How awful barbe.  That must make you anxious about doing any kind of sales job.  (At least it would to me.)  How awful that he evaluated you that way.  I remember posts you made from years ago about how you enjoyed your sales job, and you were good at it. 

I think narcissistic/sociopathic people are really good at convincing others that they are right.  That must have been simply awful!  To have someone in power over you who has no empathy.

I know you have some physical issues now - I don't know if you would choose to take on a sales job just for physical reasons, but it makes me so angry that someone could injure good people like you psychologically.  Just look at all the posts that you have made that have helped me!  And I'm sure there are countless other people on this site you have helped.  I think you are good at figuring out what is going on with another person, and try to meet their needs. 

I'm so sorry this happened to you.  What destruction lies in the path of such sociopaths.

Kimmer1975

I have a little verse posted on my facebook about forgiveness. Thought I would share it, if that's ok! 

Forgiveness

Anyone can hold a grudge, but it takes a person with Charachter to forgive. When you forgive, you release yourself from a painful burden. Forgiveness doesn't mean what happened was OK and it doesn't mean that person should still be welcomed in your life. It just means you have made peace with the pain and are ready to let it go. 

I really like that saying. I find it true for myself!  

FireKracker

Sick bastard bosses have a specialplace in hell reserved for them too Barb.I too did some homework on that subject because i too had 2 different sicko bosses.both men,both misserable,both IMO hated women.one boss pushed around his wife while the other ones wife pushed him around.Both i believe where picked on in school as children one looked like Mr Magoo and the other looked like a nerdy cocky rat bastard.They both tried to mess with me.serious but i stood my ground.The first one I took to the labor board and the second one I flew into his office(VP corporate communication) screaming you will not blame me for something i did not do.A women boss like that I think I WOULD HAVE TO KILL.

I am working on forgiveness for sooo long i lost track of time.You see Barb.I can get all worked up over these bosses who i have not worked with for yrs.Im retired almost 5 yrs.now.

See Barb.I take 1 step forward and 2 steps back

Tell me how do you really feel about that boss????? I despise what he did to you.

barbe1958

I hate my boss Jim. He does the whole 'religious' thing like blessing us at Easter and taking a long weekend, foregetting that the rest of us are working right through the holy weekend!!! He's hiding behind God.

FireKracker

i hate him too Barb.now what is forgiveness?can you forgive him?not me......i still have a problem with people like that.I guess the an eye for an eye still holds lots of water for me...

barbe1958

I just look at him with pity Grannydukes, he's a sick, sad man.

FireKracker

you are GOOOD.I cannot get to that point YET....IMO that person belongs in the electric chair.Harsh words right????maybe a little too harsh.

I remember i met one of my old bosses yrs after i took him to the labor board.He ddnt know weather to shit or go blind.That made me feel good.maybe im a lttle psycho huh?????

leaf

I think some people can let go of bad situations, and some have a harder time.  We each have our own histories, personalities, etc.  and have been hurt in different ways. We all have different capacities to recover from these hurts.  

I think it is good to learn from bad situations, but that can be easier said than done. Some don't want to do this at all, or are incapable of learning.  Some of us need help with learning; some people don't, and some people are at a place where they have no desire to, or are not at a point where they want to let things go.  If you 'let it go', then maybe you aren't learning from the situation?

FireKracker

in one breath i say to myself come on just get over it..its done.it cannot change,im waisting too much time on this yadda yadda yadda and then something happens and i go right back to the spot i was before. i go back and forth like a yo yo for years.

im better now.much better but i over react to something like your story about your cousin or barbs story about her boss.i just see red!!!!!!!!

boy that italian scorpio temper..can i ever control it.i sure try.really i do.

wenweb

grannydukes I very much understand where you are coming from