What is forgiveness?

bassetmom

Leaf, I just read your post and I wanna say I'm so sorry for what you had to endure when you were younger. I have people in my life tell me I need to forgive. I look at it this way, those emotional scars run so deep, it's hard to even consider. We take the pain with us the rest of our lives. Some people can move forward easier than others. My scars are so deep, I will not have children as a result. People say to me but you would be a wonderful mother. Well, it's not gonna happen. A lot of people in my family are bonified whack jobs and I just pray that I continue to keep my sanity each day. Leaf, considering what you have been through, you seem to have it very well together. You give great advice and you heart is big and genuine. Thank you for posting this topic because there are so many of us that can relate. Hugs to you my friend!

Bren-2007

Sending hugs to Leaf for starting this topic as well.

Grannydukes .. I'm glad to see you are feeling better.

hugs,

Bren

barbe1958

This has been the deepest thread I've been involved on this board and I'm so glad that no one has betrayed our trust as we bare our souls. I, also, thank Leaf for starting it!

FireKracker

YAY----sistas helping sistas.....And yes Thank GOD there has been no one coming here challenging or betraying us.....Love each and every one of you.huggggggs K

leaf

Thank you so much, barbe and icandothis, lauria and all these others! 

As barbe and many others know, this takes some time - it probably takes a lot of time for your brain to 'reprogram' (plasticity - reprograms/takes a new neural pathway).

I think at least *part* of my trauma is from being a preemie because the first time I saw my therapist (I did NOT know the preemie connection at the time) I 'hid' under her pillows, cringing, and acted like I was gasping for breath.  (This was a surprise to me that I acted this way too.) Since my other traumas did not involve breathing, this preemie connection made sense to me.  I  have always *hated* swimming - I was terrified of not being able to breathe. The (especially constant) sound of air seeping or flowing drives me nuts (anxious)!  (I didn't make this possible connection with incubator oxygen/air flow until my therapist suggested it.) From what I've read, in the 1950s (when I was born) they put preemies in an incubator, closed the lid, and left them there for 72 hours without food or liquid or handling of any kind.  When they opened the incubator, the preemie was either alive or dead.

I clearly remember one trauma at about age 4, but I don't know if there was similar trauma before that. 

So there is a lot I probably will never remember.  

Thank you so much again!  I chose not to have children either; I knew I wouldn't be a good parent.

I'm so glad too, that no one has 'betrayed us'.  Thank you again so much, barbe, icandothis, lauria and all the others.  It helps me to know I am not alone!

barbe1958

Huh, you just gave ME a connection!! I had pyloric stenosis and had stomach surgery at 10 days old. Up to that point, it was basically projectile vomitting so I had spent the previous 9 days pretty much dying. I had a feeding tube in my ankle and it was the hottest June in history and there was no AC at the hospital. My Mom remembers me screaming all alone with this tube in my foot. Like duh. Doens't take a PHd to figure that one out!! My parents really resented a sick third child!!! Only 15 months after my older sis was born. I bet they hoped I'd die and go away.....or at least that's what it felt like. Then I spent all those years looking for love in all the wrong places.....sigh.

VSM

Barbe, I wish I could take your pain away of feeling unwanted.  I don't understand how others can impose that on a child (or adult)--that's where my anger rears its ugly head uncontrollably--As a child advocate, I'll never get my mind around how others deliberately hurt children in any fashion--through open emotion/physical agression toward them or indifference (which I feel is just as bad).

Lauria, I have also heard the "you would make a wonderful mother" comments.  My poor mother always wanted to be surrounded by grandchildren--I have 3 siblings and we have 1 grandchild between the 4 of us--she is 26 this year...(but she is loved and spoiled in a good way!...). While I was so blessed to be raised in a loving immediate family unit, our grandparents had issues, we all have anxiety issues, and most of us have faced major childhood traumas from outside our home.  Interesting how we have tried to stop the trauma by having no children...I've discussed that with my sister over the years, but was not really conscious of why until I read your posts here.

Thanks again ladies!

kira1234

Barbie, How interesting. I also had pyloric stenoisis. Mine  I guess not as bad as yours because I didn't have surgery. I was extremely small, and cried all the time according to my mother. I remember getting a bit older and rocking myself in a chair singing mommey hold me over and over, I guess I did this on a daily basis. I also remember going to bed and hitting myself in the head to put myself to sleep nightly. One just never knows how things that happen at such an early age will affect out wntire lives.

voraciousreader

My friend's baby had pyloric stenosis.  The doctors kept telling her that there was nothing wrong with her baby....that is until she took the baby to the doctor's office and the baby vomited in front of the doctor and the doctor felt it!  He had surgery at 10 days old...and then had colic for another 5 months.  It was such an awful experience that my friend waited 7 years before having another baby......She also had an epidural during the delivery that went bad and she leaked spinal fluid for weeks...and she had this horrible headacle....while taking care of the recovering, colicky baby....No picnic...at all.  Also have a friend whose son had MAJOR heart surgery at 1 day old...and numerous surgeries since.....Some parents are truly traumatized by the experience of having a sick baby. 

Since my husband has a rare metabolic genetic disease that is thankfully now tested for in newborn screening, I've had the experience of being with parents of children who are catastrophically ill.  It never ceases to amaze me how many parents cope with the sickest of sick children.  It humbles me every time I see them or think of them.....which unfortunately, is often....

FireKracker

Pyloric Stenosis.i never heard of it BUT my Great GS at 5 weeks old had it just last year.Thank GOD with all this new technology he is fine but spoiled.now 17 mos.old.Ill now be watching him very closely as my GD is due to be having another baby in Nov.hope there wont be any trauma from this.Any suggerstions?????forewarned is forarmed.damn.

BTW the PITY is still working....huggggggggggs to all.K

barbe1958

Granny, glad the pity is still working!!!!

Pyloric stenosis is usually only in first-born sons. I was third child and female! It shouldn't happen to another child from the same mother. Don't know why though!!!

FireKracker

Yes Barb the pity is still working.Again thank you

The thing that is now my concern is this 17 month old who is soooo spoiled now is gonna have to share his parents,who adore him with a brother in Nov.Im concerned of the trauma it might,could cause him. I dont want him to have this issue. Pyloric stenosis runs in my GDs fathers side.And it was a first girl. Is this statistics? I just cannot stand that word.

barbe1958

Doesn't seem to be statistics if we have 2 occurrences right here of females getting it! hehehehehehe

barbe1958

I do know that I was fortunate to get my surgery in early 1958. Babies used to get surgery and die anyway. Then Dr. Reid/Reed(?) stopped one surgery early without cutting the last ________(whatever it was) saying the kid would die anyway. That was the first kid that lived!!! So they stopped cutting that piece in 1958 and we've lived since. doctors LOVE to scope me as I'm one of the oldest survivors of surgical pyloric stenosis.

leaf

Here's what the Mayo says about pyloric stenosis. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pyloric-stenosis/DS00815

This abstract hypothesized that the smooth muscle cells are not properly innervated. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19760199

I'm so glad you are one of the survivors, barbe!

marthah

Came across this quote today from Dr. Wayne Dyer, one of my favorite "self-help" authors, and thought I'd share it with this thread. It really fits:

 "Release the need to be upset with others. Remember that anytime you are filled with resentment, you are turning the controls of your emotional life over to others to manipulate." 

FireKracker

Barb-looks like you might be a statistic after all...and a survivor.yay.

Leaf-thanks for the article.

And Martha---I do like that quote.A LOT.powerful words.thanks for sharing.

leaf

"Release the need to be upset with others. Remember that anytime you are filled with resentment, you are turning the controls of your emotional life over to others to manipulate." 

That sounds very appealing, but I'm still confused.  Could you give a theoretical example to show how that might work?

barbe1958

HOW do we release the need to be upset with others? I don't WANT to be upset. But I DO get upset. I care what someone thinks of me...is that bad? I can rememeber slights from people from years ago that still hurt me. I don't know how to let them go. I've read differently worded quotes like that, "you give THEM power when you let them hurt you"...yada yada yada. But they still get to me!

Bren-2007

Barbe .. I wish we had a 'like' button on this site!! 

I feel exactly like you do.  The big question is HOW to do it .. we can all agree it would be better if we could let all those hurts go, but it's easier said than done.

hugs,

Bren

barbe1958

When someone knocks me down or disses me, I take a really good look at myself and wonder what I did wrong. Sometimes I drive myself crazy trying to figure it all out. Once I asked a bunch of girls who weren't too receptive to me starting to work with them, what the problem was.They said I tried to hard to be liked!!! Holy shit! Damned if you do.....

Stanzie

Interesting about the pyloric stenosis. That must have been one of the tests they did on one of my sons. My twins were born premature - 34 weeks and both had failure to thrive issues. One son has Down Syndrome and was born with duedonal atresia and had surgery right after birth and then 2 mos. later his intestines retwised and another surgery. His twin - typical child- had the projectile vomiting - well both did- his was worse for almost the entire first year. I actually don't even remember much of that first year as we were just trying to keep these babies alive. So also interesting but frightening about the problems with premature birth..... hmm more to worry about? Sigh.

FireKracker

OMG all these issues......and when you are in the midst of it all you think its only you!!!!!i am not speaking to soooo many people since bc but right now im workin on the PITY.....and yes Barb it is still working....I didnt do anything wrong and if i did well damit tell me and just maybe we can move on.MAYBE...Im not beating myself up over anything or anyone anymore....the past should be left in the past.....if someone wants to bring it to the future thats when the PITY comes in...

how am I doin?

marthah

Barbe & Leaf,

I'm at work this afternoon, but I do have a response. I'll try to hop back on tonight and respond. 

This is a great dialogue!

barbe1958

Granny, you're doing GREAT!!!!!!

barbe1958

Stanzie, how old are your boys now? How scary...a new Mom....twins...and health issues!!! Poor you! No wonder you don't remember any of it!!

leaf

Sheesh, barbe - 'trying too hard to be liked'?  With friends like that....

Stanzi- Talk about being thrown into an ocean. What a responsibility.

Marthah - look forword to your response when you have time.  Thanks so much!

NavyMom

Leaf: Thanks you for starting such a thought provoking thread.

This is a passage from a book called "Forgive for good"  I am sorry but I cannot remember the author.

Forgiveness is not the same as approving of unkindness.  Forgiveness does not mean you have to reconcile with someone who mistreated you.  You do not have to forget what happened.  Forgiveness does not mean you lie down and become a doormat when you are hurt. 

Forgiveness means we find peace even though we were in pain and mistreated.  Forgiveness means we move on in our life after an abandonment or affair.  It means we become respnsible for how we feel.  Forgiveness means we recoinnect with our positive intention.  Forgiveness means we change our grievance story.  Forgiveness means that we do not stop smelling the roses simply because we are hurt. forgiveness means we make better decisions for guiding our lives and forgiveness means we feel better.

Navymom

Stanzie

Thanks guys! My babies are 14 now and doing wonderful! Whew!

Navymom - I like that - thank you for sharing....

I had a group of friends that got together every month but then 2 of them decided because I got divorced they were "too uncomfortable" to be around me so the whole group sort of fell apart. Now after almost 5 years I'm getting messages from some of them saying I need to forgive them and be alright to be around them and all get together. I keep thinking Huh? Isn't this a bit backwards?

barbe1958

Nice paragraph, but it doesn't say HOW to forgive. It just says to DO it. I don't think it makes sense.