I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

Enjoyful

I don't KNOW.  They're obviously not thinking with the right head!

Anonymous

Hope taxpayers didn't have to pay for any enhancements for Michelle O

Just a joke ladies,,,,,don't go crazy

River_Rat

I thought this might be apropos, John Hiatt singing "Little Head." 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIjOASSmtD0&feature=related

BarbaraA

E, LOL!!!!

Enjoyful

:-D

Glad for the good news, Barbara and Athena!

Medigal

notself:  You are exactly right!  If the employers would refuse to hire illegals, they would not be any better off here than in their own country. However,  do you really think any employer is going to give up the chance to hire someone for cheaper than minimum wage?  Personally, I think if the gov would make the penalities so exhorbitant for employers who hire the illegals and they stop hiring them. that would be a much better solution than tampering with the the 14th Amendment.  It is very sad when our country would seriously consider changing an Amendment rather than doing something about the employers who hire the illegals.

I am really sorry these people are having such a bad time in their owrn country that they will risk a lot to come here and find jobs.  However, our country is financially in bad shape and we are having problems with jobs for our own citizens and helping them out even with healthcare.  It seems ridiculous to try to take on so many other people who are not even citizens.  The entire situation is pathetic and I think things are going to get much worse before they get better unless Washington takes control of this ever growing problem.

Claire82:  Your post makes no sense to me.  How can we all be illegal if we were babies born to parents who "were" legal citizens before our birth?  I say "were" since my parents have passed on and this is a moot issue for them now.  But they were proud of being citizens and they didn't have to "sneak" in to do it thank goodness.

crazy4carrots

Medigal -- Maybe Claire was thinking back to the time(s) when immigrants came over to North America and usurped the lands that were already settled by the aboriginal peoples.  Believe it or not, there were many tribes who had given up the nomadic life and had established farms and communities.  Then they were invaded and, in the U.S., the great majority were slaughtered.  Then, when treaties had been made with many tribes, those treaties were broken.  The North American history of the native peoples is, in many respects, heartbreaking (and I include Mexico and Canada in North America).  To some extent, the French and British engaged the aboriginals in what is now Canada in their settlement and business endeavours, and yet we also have a history of extreme unfairness in our dealings with them. 

Claire82

ty linda

those were my thoughts exactly

Medigal

Lindasa:  Aboriginals??  Wow!  That was way before the time of my relatives!  My people did not usurp anyone else's land.  I had no idea we were going back that far in time to make a point.  Let's face it.  Many people did do things differently than we do now but we can't blame"all" the immigrants through time for some bad things other's did.  I'm sure history shows a lot of unfair dealings in all countries but I think we need to focus on what is going on "now".  Claire's generalization was what through me off.  Thanks for the explanation.

lewing

Daisy (oops, I mean Erica): your "joke" is not funny.

Barbara, I hope your brother continues to improve.  Athena, I'm thrilled that you got good news from your cardiologist visit.  What a huge relief that must be.

L

rosemary-b

Erica

Why would you think that's funny?

1Athena1

My ancestors came to America just before the Revolution. In fact, the first one who arrived was fleeing Scotland after fleeing England as a rebel. Shortly after being welcomed in the New World, he "repaid" the favor by promptly joining the Revoilutionary War, during which he was made a general and died in battle. How's that for ungrateful -  

Immigrants back then were allowed to overthrow their host government. Today, they have to stand in line just to work. How times change.

  

Claire82

They aren't taking jobs from anyone.

They are doing jobs that no one else will do. Welfare and unemployment support the citizens.

The "illegals" are keeping this country going - for example, schools in the northeast have been trying to get people to shovel off the roofs from the previous snowstorms. Guess who they finally got?

IronJawedBCAngel

I think it is naive for anyone to maintain that we treat our Native American and Aboriginal peoples any better now than in earlier times in history. 

http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Walter-Rodgers/2010/1004/Uncle-Sam-s-shameful-treatment-of-today-s-American-Indians

I agree with Molly's earlier post.  If we would bring our soldiers home from Iraq and Afghanistan, cut the budget to the Pentagon, and stop giving tax breaks to the top 2% of the wealthy, this country would be able to pay for it's infrastructure and help its own people.

ananda8

What? No answers to my questions, yet?  Here they are again in case some missed them.

For those who want a Constitutional Amendment, answer the following questions.

How long do you think it will take to amend the Constitution?

How much will it cost to propose, pass and ratify the Constitutional Amendment?

How much will it cost to enforce the amendment?

We aren't deporting many illegals now.  How would a change to the Constitution improve enforcement of existing laws?

IronJawedBCAngel

I am not going to post the link, but according to an article I read recently, deportations of illegals who have committed some crime are up in record numbers under the Obama administration.

The Republicans in the Kentucky state govt. recently put up for consideration some legislation that is very much like what Arizona has proposed.  It sailed through committee, but the following day, several groups, including the representatives of the schools, pleaded that they reconsider.  The debate is ongoing.

The Democrats have proposed legislation that puts the owness on the employer, and we are hoping that is the bill that gets adopted.

http://bluegrasspolitics.bloginky.com/2011/02/03/house-democratic-immigration-bill-passes-committee/ 

I will say once more, that for Kentucky, with it's vital equine industry, deporting all of the illegals would be devastating.

Anonymous

Count me out on all of those answers.  I just found out 4-5 years ago that we allowed illegal immigrants to serve in our armed forces.  That was a shocker to me.

kadeeb

Claire82,

Here in Alabama we have a large immigrant population of our southern neighbors (I don't mean Florida BTW) and you are exactly right about them doing jobs no one else wants to do. Tyson has chicken processing plants in the area and the workforce is almost all Hispanic. We also have numerous chicken growers so the hatcheries and feed production plants employ a dominant Hispanic population. We have high unemployment because of manufacturing jobs being eliminated but no one wants to work those "chicken" oriented jobs. They are smelly and nasty and pay a low wage. The plants don't like to hire the other races because they won't stay with the job. At the first chance they move on to something else or try and get back on unemployment or some type of assistantce or job training program. The work may be menial but it's a job and if I didn't have one, I'd put my "big girl britches" on and get to work.  That's not what's happening. I think we've become rather spoiled and have an infection of the "entitlement" disease.  

Edited to add ATHENA!!!!!!!! GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Bren-2007

Athena .. just read your great news .. so happy to hear it!

hugs,

Bren

floralgal

delete

annettek

congrats to everyone on the good news on the health front...

as for the dumbass broads getting butt injections on the cheap...it imazes me what people will do to save cash...lionel richie's exwife set up some quack a few years ago in her Beverly Hills mansion doing basically the same thing to faces...injecting silicone direct YIKES...of course several people now are basically ruined with huge lumps of silicone floating around in their face...on the other hand in an upscale mall here in Houston several years ago a hair salon had a back room where they gave quickie plastic surgery (i.e. lipo, etc) yeah, that's what I want...not one of them was anything near a medical professional and of course people became very ill...it never ceases to amaze me.

on the insurance front for indigent citizens...hard call there...am I angry that even with fantastic insurance I have to pay a big chunk? Yes but that does not mean I don't want those who qualify not to get medical care. It is a quandry. I get ticked sometimes when I am cranky and think hell, why do they get it free?! But truthfully, most who getwhat we consider free have a far worse life than we do. It always had been...the working "poor" (wherever that falls) get burdened with crazy medical bills...so i can understand some of the resentment but i can't bring myself not to want people to not have treatment because of this. The only analogy I can think of which is a poor one to be sure is if I get a speeding ticket it p&sses me off when others are going faster but only I have to pay...yet realistically, there are other times I should have paid for things and did not have to. I told you it was a bad analogy! Anyway, it is a quandry but in my heart, no matter my own financial burden I cannot bring myself to say that a sistah without insurance should only get the bare minimum (no cosmetic) as that would just be too heartless or that someone who is disabled (like BarbaraA's brother) should not be treated...I shudder to think of what would be my youngest son's lot in life without us around- he qualifies for medicaid but I have him on my private insurance ...ever since he turned 18 when I call to schedule his annual dental appt(has to be in the hospital-that is another story for another day due to medical ineptness) they consistently ask me if I am sure I still want it since it is not covered by medicaid any longer to which I reply-hmmm well, he has teeth and he needs dental care and they say well, you have to pay for it ...uh well duh,,,I mean really?!@ (and my own dental insurance sucks big time) The sad thing is the majority just stop the dental care at 18 because of the cost-the folks at memorial hermann med center truly think I am a whacko for taking him when he does have it paid for ...so the disabled, the poor, whatever...not everything is a free ride for them...and many slip through the cracks without an advocate of sorts...it is all too confusing some times...I just think we have to take care of those weaker than us...it is what makes us human I think, or at least I hope so.

now, bring on the brussell sprouts and nekkid men

Anonymous

Claire82 wrote:

They aren't taking jobs from anyone.

They are doing jobs that no one else will do. Welfare and unemployment support the citizens.

The "illegals" are keeping this country going - for example, schools in the northeast have been trying to get people to shovel off the roofs from the previous snowstorms. Guess who they finally got?

AND

IronJawedBCAngel wrote:

I will say once more, that for Kentucky, with it's vital equine industry, deporting all of the illegals would be devastating.

Are you saying that legal immigrants are not willing to do that same work for the same pay?   That magically when they are legal they lose that work ethic?  Or do you believe that it is alright for employers to exploit the illegal status of those workers?  What if they became legal and had to be paid what the job actually is worth?

ananda8

kadeeb,

Just because the workers are Hispanic doesn't mean they are illegal.  Several corporations import foreign workers.  Tyson has imported workers from Somalia to work in an Arkansas chicken plant.  They are all sponsored by Tyson and have Green Cards. Tyson has even given these workers a Muslim holiday instead of Labor Day. 

"Tyson recruits workers from all over the world to bring them to work in their North American operations in a race to the bottom. Exploitation of a vulnerable immigrant workforce is part of their business plan."

^{http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tyson_Foods#cite_note-10}

ananda8

Companies like Tyson have trouble keeping American workers because they operate hell holes instead of businesses. 

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tyson_Foods#Safety_violations_.26_workplace_fatalities

pickle

Congrats to all you gals that received good news today.



Annette: Kudos to you for your compassion and for the great care you extend to your son. It is admirable that you believe we should help out the weaker and I agree that is what makes us civil and human.

Some of us are born into an environment that is conducive to getting an education, having emotional and loving support and having an abundance of opportunities. Then there are those people that have disabilities, illness, no support, uneducted and no guidance to help them. It is compassionate, kind people like yourself that make a difference.

iodine

I live near a chicken plant, too.  It's a small town and had US workers when it began.  It is now totally Hispanic.  I was completley unaware that big corps imported workers.  That blows my mind.  The little town has been well turned into a Hispanic community and very few signs are even in English any longer.  The only other "big " business there is a nursing home which employs all Anglos. 

I have often wondered, too, if the US can put so much money into various efforts to stop illegals, why they/we could not use the same empty dollars to take the employers to court and fine their asses and  give jail time, since They are breaking the law.  The mantra of "well, he had a social security card" doesn't cut it with me.  And I hate the one "people couldn't afford our product" if we used US workers---that's crap, too.  The only thing that would change is they would charge more and make a little less profit.  Or learn how to do it better.

The very idea of changing the Constitution instead of enforcing laws already on the books is apalling.  Perhaps those folks in AZ have it right---if the feds won't enforce the laws we already have, maybe they Need to change the state laws to something else to get the employers (and they are ALL over the US) to 1) pay a proper wage and 2) use resources available to ck. citizenship of prospective employees.  And when a political apointee has to drop out of a position because of using an illegal nanny,(and not paying proper taxes) I say send that appointee to JAIL.

I absolutely detest the fact that some illegals trudge over the border to have babies born to be citizens and obtain those benefits available to low/no income citizens and for no other reason.  If that could be determined, I say return them and their parents to the parents home.  Begin a saving account for the baby and when said child is 18, and wants to live here, give the child the $ and let him/her come.  Of course, this is just silly.  I have no ans. for this question, but I still detest that people can "arrive" illegally and become a citizen.  There are several million illegals here right now.  How can that be, without a lot of "legals" making that possible?  (don't get me wrong, if I was in one of those horrible places with no law or education, I'd want to improve my family's life, too).  I've worked with just a few folks who were likely not legal, and didn't want to become citizens, let alone legal.  They wanted to make the bucks and return home, build a good house and start a business.  They were proud Hispanics.(didn't want to learn English either--another point that ticks me off---)

I take issue with "ALLOWING" illegals to serve in our armed forces.  ALLOWING????  As a vet, I salute  anyone who is willing to serve this country and believe that when one is sworn in, they should automatically be given citizenship.  If they drop out before serving, cancel the citizenship.  But Never use the word ALLOW.  Service is a privilege, yes, but we don't ALLOW  people to Volunteer, repeat, Volunteer. 

Ok, I have been reading the thread and kept my mouth shut, and likely should have continued to do so.  Will try again.

kadeeb

Notself,

I didn't say they were illegal, that I do not know. I said they were Hispanic and it appears they are the only ones willing to work under the existing conditions.  The conditions are smelly and require revolting tasks like sorting baby chickens. They knock sick chicks in the head and pass them on to the feed producers. They clip the tips of their beeks with a hot knife to keep them from pecking each other in the tight quarters they are being housed in. These chicks aren't standing in line for the process they are in crates, pooping on themselves and their neighbors, requiring the workers to pick them up and process them by hand. 

I guess my point was that, yes it's the bottom of the food chain but if my family needed food, I'd be in line to get one of those jobs, just like they are, but you don't see american workers lining up to get in. They are lining up at the unemployment office, or a job training program or the local community college to meet the requirements of a training program.  They can also get Pell because of the employment statistics and the normal requirements for federal educational assistance have been waived because of the # of unemployed.

Now I don't find fault with anyone wishing to further their education, but here's the problem. If you get that job at the chicken plant, you won't qualify for assistance with your education. You also will not qualify for most of the available public assistance for food and medical attention. If you go to work, you don't qualify. If you don't, the government programs will keep you going in better style than if you work. There is no logical reason to apply for those jobs except a sense of pride and self worth. I fear that is becoming a rare commodity in our country. We've been conditioned to believe that we're "entitled" or have a "right" to the things many others are willing to work their a$$ off to get ( and I don't mean the CEOs of Microsoft).

  

rosemary-b

If we should change our Constitution because the UK, Ireland, France, Portugal and other countries do not alllow native born children of citizens of other countries to be citizens of their country, then it would logically folllow that we should change all of our laws to reflect theirs, including gun laws. In the UK, for example, gun laws are much stricter than they are here.

BarbaraA

Athena, great news! So happy to hear that. Heading out to meet with Dave's ENT surgeon (wife of a coworker). She is very pleased with his progress.

rosemary-b

Barbara

Great news about your brother.