I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

ananda8

Erice31,

I volunteer at Hospice.  I have volunteered with Literacy Centers of America.  I have volunteered at a wildlife rehabilitation center.  I have given science classes to the neighbor kids.  I donate time an money to the local UU Fellowship.

Where do you volunteer?

shokk.

Please explain how repealing the 14th amendment will do anything to stop the illegal immigration in this country.  How would you suggest that it would change things?  As it is now, the law does not give rights to parents of "anchor babies" until the babies are 21 years of age.  Once again the facts are different than the emotional reaction to a situation of illegal immigration.

The following is from Wiki.

"The term "anchor baby" is a misnomer - it implies that by having a baby in the US, temporary or illegal immigrants can "anchor" themselves in the US. In fact, a US citizen child cannot file for a US visa for that citizen's parents until 21 years of age, and upon reaching that age, the citizen applicant must also be earning at least 125% of the US poverty threshold to be able to apply.^[6] Thus, temporary or illegal immigrants who have babies in the US have no means of remaining legally in the US; they must return home and wait at least until the child reaches age 21. Illegal immigrants usually cannot immigrate even after the child turns 21 since they usually face a multi-year or lifetime ban from immigration to the USA, regardless of sponsorship."

Since some people don't like Wiki, here is the same thing from PolitiFact, the 2009 Pulitzer Prize Winner.

"It's important to note that having an "anchor baby" won't do much to help a Mexican mom become a U.S. citizen. Because citizen children cannot sponsor their parents for citizenship until they turn 21 -- and because if the parents were ever illegal, they would have to return home for 10 years before applying to come in -- having a baby to secure citizenship for its parents is an extremely long-term, and uncertain, process.

However, having a citizen child can produce some short-term benefits, said Marc Rosenblum, a senior policy analyst for the Migration Policy Institute. Pregnant women and nursing mothers could be eligible for certain benefits under the Women-Infants-Children (WIC) program, which provides food and nutrition vouchers, and their children could enroll in Medicaid, although the undocumented parents could not. Having a child can also help an undocumented parent qualify for relief from deportation, but only 4,000 unauthorized immigrants can receive such status per year, and the alien has to have been in the U.S. for at least 10 years. That means very long odds, Rosenblum said. "

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/aug/06/lindsey-graham/illegal-immigrants-anchor-babies-birthright/

4,000 unauthorized immigrants per year receiving relief from deportation is hardly a reason to amend the Constitution.

The whole discussion is most likely moot.  It takes two thirds (66%) of both the House and the Senate to propose the amendment and 75% of the states to ratify it.  I just don't see it happening.  You are wasting time that you could be using to volunteer with Erice31. 

crazy4carrots

Actually, I'm really curious about Shokk's (and PatMom's) belief that the U.S. border(s) can be effectively sealed.  Yes, there's the Rio Grande (a real misnomer!) and there's the wall going up.  Then there are the Pacific and Atlantic beaches (hmmm, that could be a problem -- how many Coast Guard vessels would be required, and at what expense?).  And then there's the great Canadian border.  Shokk, I venture to say you know little about what separates us Canucks geographically from you!  I can look across the river (about 1/2 mile) and clearly see Youngstown NY.  And just one lowly (and tiny) coast guard vessel keeps anyone from swimming across the Niagara River!  Oh, and then you have the middle of Lakes Superior, Huron, Erie and Ontario to worry about, not to mention the great St. Lawrence -- and then the vastness of the prairies -- oh yes, let's not forget the Rocky Mountain ranges -- separating B.C. and the Yukon from Alaska. 

Oh, it's so easy to seal the borders.  Or is it?  Might a whole lot cheaper and more effective for both parties in Congress to sit down and hammer out an Immigration reform bill together.  Just sayin'.......

rosemary-b

Shokk

Stop Canada from What?

BarbaraA

Thanks, everyone.

rosemary-b

I am appalled that someone calls people to task for being on the computer all day. You do not know what treatment or aftereffect of treatment or other disability allows or forces people to be on the computer and not out in the real world. Nobody here needs to defend themselves for being at home.

pip57

shokk wrote:"So PIP I want to make sure I understand your post..........you are saying we should not amend the Constitution so that means that you were against Blacks being considered "full humans" and not 3/4ths of a white man and that women should not have equal rights and the right to vote......hmmmmm.......interesting........shokk"Again, sigh, I will ask the question.  It was the very people who are backing a change in the constitution with regard to citizenship, are the same people who were vehemently attacking any suggestion that the constitution be changed to disallow the private ownership of semi automatic guns. The same people also have been arguing against the health care bill because of the sacred aspects of the constitution.  So, my problem is, that you cannot have it both ways.  Is your constitution THAT sacred to you OR are you willing to make changes IF they follow your personal opinions.  My opposition to changing the constitution regarding birthright to citizenship is that it makes no sense to jump from one side to the other.  INMO it makes you sound like you are just reiterating the 'party line' without putting a lot of your own thought into it.I hope my dh makes broccoli tonight! 

crazy4carrots

Oh my goodness.  Did someone actually have the NERVE to suggest that people who post here are lolling about all day?  Well, I'm retired, I can loll about as much as I want -- in between my volunteer gigs and medical appts and dusting and cooking and working on stuff I do for other people -- and I know several who either work from home and take much-needed breaks, or work in an office and post on their breaks.   Please, whoever you are, save your insults for those whom you personally know, and who might actually care what you think!

Bren-2007

I confess .. I'm Lazy and I don't volunteer anywhere, and I'm on the computer all day. I don't cook, clean or do laundry either.  Poor DH that puts up with me. I'm pretty basically just a burden on society.

Blue .. so glad you sent Ray of Sunshine flowers.  He'll love it, plus he knows you're a kook!

Bren

shokk

PIP that is exactly my point............

 Like Pat posted above......if the borders were closed and secured there would be no need to do any changes to the Constitution.........

Linda Germany did if for years..........if we REALLY wanted to close our borders both South and North we could........shokk

pip57

Shokk...now I am really confused.  WHAT was your point?

And I would just like to confirm that lindasa could very easily swim across the river and take over Youngstown.  However, I would not expect her before summer. 

rosemary-b

shokk

What do we do about our eastern and western borders? Germany does not have oceans on two sides. What works on land borders would not work on the ocean. Or do you want a wall along all of the beaches. There goes the scenery.

Bren-2007

PIP .. you made me laugh out loud!

How in the world are we to secure our borders now?  A fence/wall doesn't work.  There are not enough border patrol agents.  How are we supposed to keep all the Canadians out?  They look like Americans .. how can we tell them apart from us?

Bren

pickle

I just have to ask Shokk....what does stop Canada mean? I know others have asked but I haven't seen a response. Did I miss it?

You can't compare Germany's borders with your own. Canada is the 2nd largest country in the world. The US is 4th at 9,630,000 sq km and Germany is 62 at a mere 357,000 sq km. Throw Mexico in the mix and you have got one heck of a lot of border area to close. As someone else previously mentioned, the topography of the combined border countries would be impossible to seal off entirely. BTW, when you say seal it off, what exactly do you have in mind?

pip57

Bren...Back at you...good one!  We have taken 2 centuries to learn all the nuances of 'blending in'. Our plan is obviously working! (Picture me, or my cat avatar, rubbing my hands together with an evil glint in my eye and devilish grin on my face)

Alpal

This is the TP's idea of "small government"? Doesn't sound like "small government" to me.

Bren-2007

I've got my eyes on you PIP .. you better not try to get in here!  I know you want to come down here for our special health care and imported oil.

Bren

pickle

Yes we blend in pretty well eh!

pip57

Oh Pickle...that is the one thing that will give us away.  Eh?  

edited to add:  Hydro is another word that would do us in. 

Bren-2007

I have an idea for sealing the border.  We need to use the Army, Navy and Air Force .. and Marines, to keep everyone out!  No more war in Afghanistan, no more troups in Iraq and all the bases worldwide.  We need our troops home to protect real Americans from the invaders.  We could do away with the border patrol and save all that govt spending.

Bren

ananda8

East Germany built a wall and couldn't keep people from sneaking over to West Germany.  The Chinese built a wall so large that it can be seen from outer space.  It didn't stop anyone.

The "virtual fence" that was supposed to be built along the boarder with Mexico is so rife with corruption that the program has been cancelled.

Let's have some ideas from the "amendment fixes everything" people.

By the way, I am still waiting for the answers to my questions.  Here they are again.

For those who want a Constitutional Amendment, answer the following questions.

How long do you think it will take to amend the Constitution?

How much will it cost to propose, pass and ratify the Constitutional Amendment?

How much will it cost to enforce the amendment?

We aren't deporting many illegals now.  How would a change to the Constitution improve enforcement of existing laws?

What? NO answers!! That's typical of the right. 

IronJawedBCAngel

The TP will establish the dialect police, straining their ears for the occasional "eh?" and "aboout".

I just want one thing from Linda when she swims across the river.  Please bring some of those gorgeous Mounties with you!

pip57

Bren, you had best alert the boarder guards.  My dh and I are on our way down next week.

Bren-2007

Notself .. I did have a suggestion on how to pay for it.  Call our armed forces home from around the world to patrol our borders.  We'll save a fortune if we get rid of the border patrol.  And since we already have the military on our payroll, it won't cost a thing.  We can use the illegal workers to build the Great American Wall.

Bren

Anonymous

Pretty much anyone trying to cross the border at any point that is not a checkpoint regardless of how they look should be stopped.  Anyone who goes through a checkpoint should be able to cross the border after presenting identification unless there is a reason (outstanding warrants, being on a terrorism watch list, etc) not to allow them to.

Edited to add that there should be a checkpoint set up at every road, bridge or tunnel that crosses the border. 

There is usually a form to be filled out at those checkpoints, with information like where the visitors will be traveling, and how long they plan to be in the country etc.  The same kind of information that anyone needs to provide any country that they are entering legally.

There is this new thing called arial surveillence that should be more than adequate to catch any craft coming from international waters to our shores.  An onshore wall seems like overkill.  I doubt that anyone would be swimming all the way from Europe or Japan. 

pip57

Just wait until you see our Mounties in their speedos!

3monstmama

Oh Yes, Please! Lets do seal our borders just like Germany!  shokk you are so very right---Germany was very very good at sealing its borders.  And when it was discovered that there had been a "mistake" in drawing the borders, Germany was ohsoclever at expanding to the new border and sealing that one too. 

After we seal the borders, just like in Germany, can we set-up some special places for all of the special people that we don't want living in our country to live all by themselves, just like Germany did. . . or maybe we can put the special people on trains and send them to special towns just for them to live together with others just like them.  What a magnificant plan!   Can we start by issuing some ID cards?

Note to self:  Have monsters start summer history lessons reading Diary of a Young Girl  Get movie off netflix for littlest monster.

pickle

And they'll be bringing Tim Horton's coffee and doughnuts!

Bren-2007

3monsta .. I'm not sure how the deportation thing would work.  Do we have a large enough military for that, or maybe we should use the border patrol for that function. 

Bren

Bren-2007

I can't wait for those cute Mounties to get here.  Can we keep them inside our Great American Wall?  And I could sure use some of those bisquits right now with my coffee ... how soon can you get to Virginia?

Bren

pip57

We haven't heard from lindasa for awhile.  Perhaps she strapped on some skates and is on her way there now.  Tim Hortons has some chocolate caramel coffee right now.  Want some?