I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

ananda8

iodine,

Earthquakes are almost certainly due to "Fracking".  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/28/950968/-Arkansas-earthquakes-due-to-fracking-disposal

ShirleyHughes,

You said: WESTBORO "BAPTIST CHURCH" IS NOT A CHRISTIAN CHURCH!  It is nothing but a bunch of fools and perhaps they have 100 members who are mostly family.

Your statement uses a very common logical fallicy called the No True Scotsman fallicy. 

Smith: All Scotsmen are loyal and brave.

Jones: But McDougal over there is a Scotsman, and he was arrested by his commanding officer for running from the enemy.

Smith: Well, if that's right, it just shows that McDougal wasn't a TRUE Scotsman.

3monstmama

notself, re the scotsman. . . .you so hit the nail on the head!  Thank you!

ananda8

If the definition of extremist is "the use of force to impose one's will or in retaliation against those who believe differently", then there have been Buddhist extremists in Sri Lanka who have burnt Christian churches.

By this definition, Westboro Baptist Church is not an extremist organization since all of their protests have been peaceful. 

1Athena1

Welcome back, 3monst - I am so jealous of your Parisian foray. Hope the skies were not too gray at this time, and that you shopped at the bouquinists (sp.) along the Seine...

1Athena1

notself: extremism, like too many things, is in the eye of the beholder. There is some jingoism involved in determining who is extremist and who is not. Too often, the powerful, including powerful nations, get to say which of the less powerful ones are ruled by extremists and which are not.

But I am sure it would surprise our conservative friends on this thread to learn that, during the Bush years, many Europeans considered America a country taken over by religious fanatics (a.k.a. extremists). And Europe should know - it has been a hotbed of political extremism for centuries!

1Athena1

tupelo, absolutely!!

Extremism is hardly bound be religion. Extremism is a manner of thinking and acting upon one's beliefs, be they religious or not.

Hitler, one of history's most notorious extremists, was an atheist.

Anonymous

Extremists...BEWARE of them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAM1Hxs8374

River_Rat

Tupelo, there are extremists across all spectrums.  I wouldn't have thought of mentioning atheists, not because of my affiliation or lack thereof, but just because in my experience, the atheists that I know aren't organized enough to be thought of as a group, we're kind of a rag-tag bunch that sometimes don't have very many people in our lives that we can even discuss atheism with.  This is not to say that there aren't extremist atheist groups.  I just haven't encountered any to my recollection.

Edited to add:  I actually consider myself agnostic.  Most of the religious people that I know consider that the same as atheist so for purposes of discussion I won't argue the distinction in this case. 

ananda8

Hitler was at least a nominal Christian and believed in god.  Stalin was an atheist.

Hitler was supported by Christians in Germany and signed an agreement with the Vatican promissing to stay out of church politics if the church promissed to stay out of national politics. http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=1570

Stalin persecuted Russian Orthodox churches and followers.

1Athena1

Yes, and Hilter had the Pope convinced that he was a devout catholic. You are correct in that he was nominally a Christian, but according to historical accounts he neither believed in God nor attended church services. Not that it matters, though....

Stalin. That's a more open atheist.

BarbaraA

RiverRat, Medigal and Otter, well said. I am sticking to my definition of extremist as I stated several pages ago. This is another definition but very similar. 1: the quality or state of being extreme . 2: advocacy of extreme measures or views 3. someone who has beliefs or opinions that are considered to be extremely unreasonable by most people

So tonight it is hormone free grass fed NY Strip steak with baked sweet potatoes and (drum roll) brussels. Yum. Then So Delicious coconut milk ice cream sweetened with agave. Double yum.

Bren-2007

Barbara .. I like the Number 3 explanation the best.  "Someone who has beliefs or opinions that are considered to be extremely unreasonable by most people."

Dinner sounds fabulous!

Bren

Medigal

Shirley and Laura:  Gee, it was so lonely not getting to read your posts since I think I have already memorized whatever you post.  It seems to always be on the same theme.  You, imo, really need to take a break from watching the Beckster.  I think everyone with a brain who watches any tv knows what you are trying to shove down our throats is "true".  The world is filled with insane, imo, extremists who are dedicated to taking down the US and as much of the World with it!  You seem to love to throw the word "JIHAD" at us.  Well why don't you also tell us what YOU think our country should do about it? 

Did you not hear in the news this morning that our states are so broke the elderly nursing home patients I spoke about not too long ago who are on Medicaid are facing a great dilemma!  We are up to our ears in financial problems in the US and yet you seem to want us to be saviors of the entire world!  Why don't you show some compassion for people in your own country who may not get the medical care they need or have places to live if many nursing homes have to close?  As my beloved mom always said "Clean up your own house, before you try to clean up someone else's"!  I think the US has to prepare to protect it's own citizens before it uses money we don't have to tell other nations how to behave.  I would just like to read some of your posts where you show as much concern for those suffering in your own country as you do for those around the world.  

Are those people in your videos Extremists??  I would say "Insanely So!"  You don't have to convince me the world is full of horrors but my first compassion goes to my own people and my own country.  We are no longer the "great" financially wealthy nation who can be Big Brother Protector to the world.  Big Brother can barely take care of his own relatives IMO!   

Gee, it's so great to be home again!   I'll have to put my personal problems aside more so I won't miss any more enlightening videos to convince me the world is going to Hell.  I have news for you. We are already in Hell!   Have a great day (while we can!).

jenn3

Holy Crap.........I go out of town and offline for a few days and I've lost track again.  I've got to get my act together with this group.

Wabbit

I think some here are confusing the use of 'examples' with Christian bashing.  The point of using Christians as the main example is because that is what the majority of people here are. 

So ... if you know that Christian extremists do not represent your religion as a whole you should also be able to understand that Islamic extremists do not represent their entire religion either.  It's like saying that all tall white boys with short hair think and act like Tim McVey.  Sounds silly doesn't it? 

So why do some apply that standard to a religion that is 20% of the world's population?  They are not all alike any more than all tall white boys are all alike.  I'd hazard a guess that the vast vast majority are just living their lives and don't care about us that much one way or another ... really.

Stereotyping is an easy trap to fall into when the 'other' people look or dress differently and have different beliefs and customs and cultures than you do.  But the world is global and we can't just exist in our own little worlds anymore.  We need to understand and respect our differences and learn to get along with each other IMO.

I'm an agnostic ... I guess we have already come to grips with the idea that we don't have all the answers to everything ... so maybe we are less likely to go all radical about things.   

Bren and everybody else in the path of the storms ... hope you get through it with no damage.  We had the tornado warnings at about 3:00 am this morning but no tornados.  It is a nasty storm though.  When I was growing up we had a cellar that my Dad used to make us go to when we had bad storms.  There were spiders down there and I was more scared of them than I was of the storms.  Now we don't have a basement and sometimes I wish we had that old cellar.   

  

3monstmama

I have known some extremist atheists who seemed to have a need to bash organized religions.   To me, it seemed that they "bashed" out of insecurity over the validity of their beliefs....not much different than all the other extremists IMHO. 

I think WhiteRabbit makes an excellent point:  if we don't think that the Westboro group is representative of Christianity, then we should be able to get that Muslims who blow people up are not representative of Islam.  I agree completely that the vast majority of everyone in the world is just living their daily lives dealing with getting the kids to school, the meals on the table, etc etc etc. . . .

But that definition of extremism, oh dear1  I guess that makes me an extremist on the issue of locally grown food, use of hormones and genetically modified food!

Spoke to my mother who is on the east coast--about the storm.  She says the sky is a very wierd color right now. 

1Athena1

Under Bren's and Barbara's definition, Glenn Beck is an extremist. I do not watch You Tube videos (I can't from here, anyway) but if any were from Beck, I think whoever looked at them was staring extremism in the face. I remember when I first saw him on television thinking to myself: this man should be the dictator of a very poor country of 3 million starving souls. He would be the perfect type as a banana republic dictator. His views are simplistic, factually incorrect and filled with vitriol and hate against anyone not like him. He is, in a way, a symbol of the decline of the American empire, like so much of our pop culture is.

It used to be Ed Murrow. Now it's Glenn Beck. Makes me sad when I think of it.

Anonymous

Notself - I had a stray LARGE dog in the yard 3 days ago, he was trying to get under my deck I assume to get at my opossum.  I was able to get this 100 + pound beast on a leash.

Well, since then my buddy seems to be afraid of me.  He is still coming and eating, but if I just go close to look at him he runs and hides.  The same guy that was trying to get in my house last week, taking food from my hand.  I would open the door and watch him eat, we were only about a foot away from each other

Should I just put out the food and stay away?  Is it perhaps a good thing that he seems shy/afraid of me ?  Just wondering what your thoughts are.

I don't see any harm in being his buddy.  My back yard butts up to a very large wild area.  So keeping him around my house would be good.  I will continue to feed him. 

Is it OK if I PM you with some questions?  Also have a funny story but I don't know if everyone would be interested.   Or are you others interested in opossums ??

Anonymous

How do you post pictures here ??

Can someone help me?

River_Rat

3monstmama, your point about atheists is taken.  I just haven't encountered it.  I've had many different religions knock on my door and want to tell me why their way is the only way I'll get to live in eternity and have yet to have an atheist try to do the same.  If I just considered bashing a religion as extremism then I would have to say there are an awful lot of extremists because so many will bash a religion other than their own.  So for me that definition is too broad.

I should add that I consider myself agnostic, but that in my experience most religious people I have encountered have considered that the same as atheist so for purposes of discussion I just didn't want to get off into those weeds. 

bluedahlia

Erica, I'm up to funny stories.

As far as posting pics go, use the icon next to the smilies (left side) and paste the pic link.

Anonymous

3monstmama wrote:

I have known some extremist atheists who seemed to have a need to bash organized religions.   To me, it seemed that they "bashed" out of insecurity over the validity of their beliefs....not much different than all the other extremists IMHO. 

I think WhiteRabbit makes an excellent point:  if we don't think that the Westboro group is representative of Christianity, then we should be able to get that Muslims who blow people up are not representative of Islam. 

Most mainstream Christian denominations do not support,encourage, fund, or otherwise condone the actions of the members of the Westboro "church".  Many have actively worked to protect the families of fallen soldiers and others from that group's protests and actions.  They separate themselves from Westboro by their words and by their actions.  Many self-identified moderate Muslim groups can't say the same about their relationship with Muslim extremists, especially when those who preach violence are invited in.  That is where so many people get confused.

River_Rat

Erica, I believe to post pictures you would have to have an account at Photobucket, Flicker or some other image hosting service and upload the picture to that account then link to it back here.

I think the danger to your buddy would be if he felt that comfortable with all humans.  Not everyone is as nice to animals as you are.  So the fact that he is being careful around you after the big dog being around seems like a good thing to me, a self-protection thing.  After a bit of time he may be comfortable with you again. 

Edited to correct an embarrassing typo which had turned Photobucket into Photobucker. 

YramAL

Medigal-Welcome back! As usual, your posts are right on, at least in my opinion. 

I, too, have pretty much memorized what certain posters are going to say about any given subject. In fact, I have them on ignore, and I can still tell what they are saying!

Mary 

Anonymous

Anonymous

Mary what kind of dog it that ?  He/she is so precious

YramAL

Erica31-She's supposed to be a pekingese/shih tzu but I have my doubts. Her hair is too short.

Mary 

3monstmama

Actually I think a lot of ordinary boring Muslims take the same approach towards the extemists of their religion as your average ordinary boring Anglican or other Christian takes towards the Westboro group and its ilk. 

It didn't seem to get as much press in the states but when the Coptic church was bombed in Egypt, Muslims came out to protect the Christians who came to attend Christmas services by forming a human "shield" around the Coptic Church.

Most people in the world are good, just going day by day, living their lives and NOT out to get their neighbors. . .

bluedahlia

Medigurt????????????? Who's that....I know a Medigal.  Is that a typo??

1Athena1

Erica: You say you near near a large wild area - do you leave food out for this dog, or do you only put it out for him when he comes up to the house? Because I would be concerned about non-welcome wildlife coming your way for a free meal if it is the former. I'm sure you know the ropes, but I was just curious about this. 

Edited: Oops -I misunderstood - you were talking about the opossum - not the dog.