I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

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  • kadeeb
    kadeeb Member Posts: 305
    edited February 2011

    Maximum liberty, minimum government. Short version.

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited February 2011

    So was Tim McVey a libertarian?

    Bren

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  • kadeeb
    kadeeb Member Posts: 305
    edited February 2011

    Of course you couldn't get 2 to agree with what the liberty, government ratio should be.

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited February 2011

    So where does a person like Tim McVey fit in the whole scheme of things?  Was he just a home grown terrorist or did he consider himself a patriot?  He was a right wing extremist in my opinion.

    Bren

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  • kadeeb
    kadeeb Member Posts: 305
    edited February 2011

    I don't know about right wing (I think crazy is more descriptive) but extremist for sure. I think he had gotten to the place where any and all rational reasoning was not on his radar. I honestly think someone who had known what he was planning couldn't have changed his mind . He wasn't just a rotten apple in the barrel, he had a worm infestation.

    to add: off to work, check in later 

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2011

    As someone who purchased a beautiful stalk of brussell sprouts from Whole Foods (had no idea they grew that way) and found a dead oppossum in my back yard yesterday,  this might be a place for me. Just wanted to thank everyone who posted in response to my query. I will post a response a bit later. As off putting as some of the comments were here they were mild in comparison to what I found on another thread. Going to get a bit of sleep......

    Eff~

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  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited February 2011

    Sleep? Where are you, if I may ask - not on eastern time, I imagine (unless you are having a nap)!

    Lovely avatar, BTW.

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  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited February 2011

    I would say McVey was a right wing extremist militia type guy. These guys (IMHO) are anarchists, not republicans. They hate the government. The Tea Party aligns themselves with republicans because they are conservative and their numbers are small. Where oh where is Medigal to clear this up for everyone? She has her finger on the Tea Party pulse. I will PM her.

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  • Wabbit
    Wabbit Member Posts: 1,592
    edited February 2011

    Efflorescing ... Welcome!  I am glad you have decided to jump in here and join us.  People tend to get a lot of wrong headed ideas about anything different from their own experience or culture.  When we actually talk to each other as individuals we can all learn a lot.  So ... I really hope you stay around and chat with us about your perspective ... and brussel sprouts and opposums and recipes and all the other stuff we get to talking about :)

    Extremists come in all shapes, sizes, religions, and causes.   IMO most just latch onto a 'reason' to do what they want. 

    Stepson and DIL visited this weekend.  We got to talking about the various critters that visit to check out our bird feeders.  Possums were included.  But I didn't think it was prudent to include all of my recently learned information about them in a conversation over breakfast Smile     

    We have gone from ice and snow to thunderstorms here.  Lots of rain, wind and warning sirens all night long.  There will probably be a nap in my plans for today ... yawn.   

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  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited February 2011

    Well, 3 inches of snow over Saturday night to add to the stuff staying on the ground -- then it warmed up and has been raining steadily since about midnight.  Our sidewalk is a river and the streets are a gloppy, sloppy mess!  Let's hope the sewers don't get plugged!  No thunderstorms, tornadoes or other freaky weather predicted, and tomorrow (March 1) is scheduled to come in like a lamb....which means...oh noooooo!

    Efflorescing -- Please stay around with us, it's great to hear from you!  We encourage open-mindedness here (and silliness too, when necessary!)Laughing.

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  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited February 2011

    McVeigh - definitely a homegrown extremist. 

    ABRUPT CHANGE OF TOPIC - BUT THOUGHT THIS MIGHT INTEREST SOME WHO POST HERE:

    Has anybody noticed that searching things on Google is getting more and more frustrating these days? Anything slightly enlightening or academic turns up any amount of crap such as a answer.com web site or ask.com or answerbag or whatever those containers of tripe are. It is getting endlessly frustrating to see the most shallow, useless results come first. I tried using Google to find definitions to some cancer research terms for another thread I was participating on last night and the dribble I came up with was incredible.

    I would be interested in hearing others' experiences...I am thinking of switching to Bing.

    Especially in light of the following article, which confirmed my own experience:

    From The New York Times (Feb. 25/2011):

    In a tacit admission that Web publishers are flooding its search engine with low-quality pages, Google has revised its methods to improve the usefulness of its results.

    Google said the change would raise the rankings of high-quality Web sites and reduce those of lesser sites, affecting 12 percent of search queries.

    Sites known as content farms, which churn out sometimes mindless articles based on what people are searching for, have recently worked their way to the top of search results, frustrating some Google users. High rankings in search results are crucial because they allow Web sites to get more traffic and bring in more business, either through sales of goods and services or through advertising.

    "I haven't seen as much negative attention on Google's results as I have in the last month or two - it's been fairly unprecedented," said Danny Sullivan, editor of Search Engine Land and an industry expert.

    Persuading users that it has the best results is crucial for Google, whose reputation and status as the front door to the Web depend on them. Though there were many search engines before Google, it became the dominant player because its technology produced better results for users. If people begin to doubt the quality of its results, Google risks losing them to competitors.

    While so-called content farms can provide useful information, many of their articles are of questionable value but achieve high rankings in searches. For example, an eHow article on making friends in college includes tips like "consider joining a sorority or fraternity" and "remember to have a good time, smile and laugh."

    Full article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/26/technology/internet/26google.html?ref=googleinc&pagewanted=print

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  • konakat
    konakat Member Posts: 6,085
    edited February 2011

    A lot of these useless websites have a lot of advertising on them.  I wonder if they pay to get their websites pushed to the top or they're affiliated with google.  I hate having to wade through this crap.  Used to be able to get good links on page 1, now I have to check up to 5 pages of search results.  Blech.

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  • YramAL
    YramAL Member Posts: 1,651
    edited February 2011

    Here's a joke I saw on facebook this morning that I thought some of you might like.

    A unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party and a Big Corp CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says, "Look out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie."

    Mary 

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  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited February 2011

    Good joke Mary!

    Sometimes it's easiest to be as specific as possible when searching through google with lots of +++added to the description.  I haven't used bing but I do prefer Google to the others I've used.

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  • lassie11
    lassie11 Member Posts: 1,500
    edited February 2011

    I was thinking of the issue of religion yesterday while listening to a CBC (Canadian radio) interview:  http://www.cbc.ca/tapestry/

    If it doesn't come up, go to Sunday February 27, 2011 , Preachers Who  Don't Believe in God.

    They interviewed the one called Adam in the study, a preacher from a fundamentalist southern church who says he no longer believes in a god yet continues to preach as if he did. It focussed on how he has struggled and feels alone yet carries on because he can't figure out how else to make a living and likes the people in his church.

    They also interviewed one who used his real name and likely was the one called Rick. He used all sorts of tortured logic to justify being a preacher who had little to preach.

    The first guy, a self described fundamentalist, said that his religion was quite closed and that when he started reading other materials, he realized what nonsense he was preaching. I think that is how extremists of any sort develop. They don't step outside the closed world of whatever religion it is and don't allow any critical thinking into their thoughts. To me, it is crazy hypocritical to carry on  preaching a fundamental belief that you don't believe and a sign of how extremism can flourish.

    It's raining here revealing all sorts of ice under the melting snow.

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  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited February 2011

    Lindasa, even when you get specific, Google manages to come up with trivial crap. I almost went insane trying to find basic dictionary-like definitions about the difference between a raw number and a percentage, and the hits I would get one the first and second pages included tips for reporters and fashion tips. Basic concepts like "overall survival" and disease-free survival" were really hard to find.

    Lots of times, you wind up with sites were someone states an opinion or asks a question, even when you use terms like "dictionary." The closest you get to anything fact-based is wikipedia, sometimes, and we know that it is riddled with problems.

    KK - Yes - according to the NYT, the crappy sites do try to rig the system. Google tried to flag them but it seems that whenever they make a change, the trivial crap peddlers find a way to rig the system.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2011

    Efflorescing wrote:

    I would like to ask those of you who use those terms to please define Muslim/Islamic extremist from your own words. What are the beliefs and habits of an Muslim/Islamic extremist? What differentiates them from a moderate Muslim?

    To me, Muslim extremists are those who use the words of the Quran and the teachings of the Islamic religion to justify the use of hatred or violence in an attempt to enforce their faith on everyone.  In addition to those who bomb or open fire on any "infidels" such as the bombings in Spain and London and the two WTC bombings and the shooting at Fort Hood, it also means those who would impose Sharia Law that calls for stoning, and maiming and beatings in response to violations of religious rules, and those who plan or carry out "honor killings", and those who condone or encourage such actions.  It also includes those who would destroy Israel in the name of religion.

    Moderate Islamists condemn the violent actions of the extremists, and do not actively seek to convert others to their way of life beyond having the way they live their religion provide a model that others would want to follow.  That makes them targets of the extremists.

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  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited February 2011

    Interesting how different these search engines are.

    I went to bing.com and simply entered the following in the search bar:

    numbers versus percentages

    This is what came up:

    Bing

    Web

    • Web

    All Results

    1-10 of 12,000,000 results· Advanced

    Related Searches for numbers versus percentages

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  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited February 2011

    Now see the very different search results when you type in the same words on the Google.com bar - numbers versus percentages:

    numbers versus percentages   
    Advanced search About 179,000,000 results (0.07 seconds) 

    Search Results

    1. Repeat Visitors: Tracking Percentage vs Absolute Numbers

      Jul 20, 2008 ... The answer to the 'percentage of repeat visitors' vs 'absolute number of repeat visitors' question is after the fold. ...
      seoroi.com/./repeat-visitors-tracking-percentage-vs-absolute-numbers/ - Cached

    2. Numbers vs Percentage? (2010, home, living in) - General U.S ...

      Jan 15, 2011 ... In you opinion, when talking about racial and ethnic demographics, what is more important when determining the presence and influence of a ...
      www.city-data.com › City-Data Forum › US Forums › General US - Cached

    3. Numbers vs Percentage? - General U.S. - Page 3 - City-Data Forum

      Jan 16, 2011 ... Hypothetically Jim attends a party where there are 10 ...
      www.city-data.com › City-Data Forum › US Forums › General US - Cached Show more results from city-data.com

    4. Tips for Readers of Research: Numbers Versus Percentages - Phi ...

      by GW Bracey - 2003 - Cited by 1 - Related articles
      He also shows how numbers and percentages have been used in studies dealing with jobs. A table showing the Ten Fastest-Growing Jobs, 2000-2010, differs from ...
      www.kappanmagazine.org/content/84/5/410.abstract

    5. Body Fat Measurement: Percentage Vs. Body Mass

      Body Fat Measurement: Percentage Vs. Body Mass ... Weight, body fat, body mass index -- what do all these numbers mean? And what do they really tell you ...
      www.webmd.com/diet/features/body-fat-measurement - Cached - Similar

    6. Concentration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      For example, a 40% w/v sugar solution contains 40 g of sugar per 100 mL of resulting .... atomic percentage (A), at.%, \left ( \frac{\rm number~of~atoms~of~ ...
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration - Cached - Similar

    7. Torrents - Higher seeders number vs. Higher seeders percentage ...

      Jan 30, 2011 ... Which would actually result in a faster download -...
      answers.yahoo.com › ... › Internet › Other - Internet - Cached

    8. HP raw numbers vs percentage

      4 posts - 3 authors - Last post: Nov 14, 2006If this can be done with Nurfed then yay... Is it possible to always show the percent, unless the cur/max is known, in which case, ...
      forums.nurfed.com/showthread.php?12857...numbers-vs-percentage - Cached

      Get more discussion results Percent and ProportionsFeb 17, 2011 ... In the problem, 8 is what percent of 20?, the number 8 is some percent of .... Now that we have solved a number of percent problems using ...
      www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/percent/proportions.html - Cached - Similar

    9. MicroPoll Number of Votes Vs. Percentages / Results / Analysis ...

      Jun 15, 2010 ... By default Votes per option are displayed in percentages on the Results Window. You can change this to display the actual number of votes ...
      support.micropoll.com/faqs/results-analysis/no-of-votes - Cached
      10. You have removed results from this search.Hide them Loading...
    MoreFewer Change locationClose Search OptionsHide search toolsShow search tools  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Nextnumbers versus percentages  
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  • annettek
    annettek Member Posts: 1,640
    edited February 2011

    Konkat- yes they do pay for placement and also add code so they land At top

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  • konakat
    konakat Member Posts: 6,085
    edited February 2011

    At risk of peeving off some people, Christians seem to be the main religious group trying to convert people.  Those misguided Christians that head off to volatile areas in the Middle East are simply nuts (re. dangers from "extremists, pirates off northeast coast of Africa), or overflowing with hubris. Does this mean Christian missionaries are extremists?

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  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited February 2011
    KK - I would answer, IMO for the most part, YES!!!! I hope you read this post before it is "removed by the community."Undecided
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  • konakat
    konakat Member Posts: 6,085
    edited February 2011

    I hope not Athena.  I was just building on Pat's comment that moderate Muslims don't try to convert....and extrapolated to another religion.  In my experience, the only people trying to convert people are Christians.  None of my Muslim friends have tried to convert me.  Nor have my Jewish friends.  Inneresting....

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  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited February 2011

    Couldn't agree more.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2011
    9 minutes ago konakat wrote:

    At risk of peeving off some people, Christians seem to be the main religious group trying to convert people.  Those misguided Christians that head off to volatile areas in the Middle East are simply nuts (re. dangers from "extremists, pirates off northeast coast of Africa), or overflowing with hubris. Does this mean Christian missionaries are extremists?

    There is a huge difference between being willing to put yourself into harms way in the name of religion, and doing harm to others in the name of religion.  When was the last time you read about Christian missionaries using violence or the threat of violence to attempt to convert people?  They usually bring food, safe drinking water, sanitation and education to an area.  They live their religion, and hope to inspire the locals to want to join them.  That is very different from threatening anyone who doesn't live the way you want them to with violent death.

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  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited February 2011

    There are extremists in most religions (I dare say, all).  But I don't hear any pundits tarring moderate Christians with the same brush as the extreme Christian fundamentalists who choose to target and murder abortion doctors, or stalk the funerals of well-known persons, or try to force their extreme (religious, moral, social) beliefs on others through changing laws.  Nor do I hear any public criticism of ultra-Orthodox Jews who adhere to their own religious, social and cultural laws.

    And yet, how many times have we heard people with abundant airtime talking about Muslims "as a whole" and instilling fear and hatred in their listeners? Too darn often, IMO.

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited February 2011

    Why would those missionaries knowingly sail into an area of pirates.  Surely, they couldn't think they would convert them with their Bibles.  And now those 4 people are dead.  I understand the part about wanting to share their faith .. but didn't they read the part about casting pearls before swine. 

    And God can't really use you to spread the faith if you're dead.

    Bren

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  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited February 2011

    Sitting from my atheist's perch, I believe that anyone who tries to convert another adult from another culture to believe in God the way he or she does is an extremist. Sadly, must just don't realize it. The believe they are spreading the truth.

    I can't think of a more gross violation of another human being from the philosophical point of view than unsolicited conversion attempts, often through psychological coercion and blackmail. Most every religion is probably guilty of it. It is abhorrent.

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  • konakat
    konakat Member Posts: 6,085
    edited February 2011

    Agreed Athena.  I also loath how some people use the horrible acts of extremists to paint an entire religion as bad.  Maybe they should learn a bit about a religion, beyond watching utube videos and reports about a religion's extremists.  But then, some are scared of the truth and use hate to feel better about themselves.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2011
    konakat wrote:

    I hope not Athena.  I was just building on Pat's comment that moderate Muslims don't try to convert....and extrapolated to another religion. 

    Please do not mischaracterize what I said. 

    "Moderate Islamists condemn the violent actions of the extremists, and do not actively seek to convert others to their way of life beyond having the way they live their religion provide a model that others would want to follow. "

    It is not the absence of seeking converts, it is the methods of trying to inspire converts.


    That means that while those who live their faith and maybe even use words to share the joy that their faith gives them may inspire someone to seek to learn more about that religion and perhaps eventually convert to it, they are not actively trying to convert people using violence or threats of the afterlife to bully anyone into conforming with their beliefs.  

    There really is a big difference between not seeking converts and seeking to positively inspire potential converts which you seem to have missed.

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