baking soda...cancer cure?

Husband11

Byron, I'm sure I do say things that are contradictory, I'm only human.  But the way I see it is Simoncini needs to say something more than that tumours are white, to support the idea that they are the result of a fungal infection. 

When you cut open an animal, there are lots of white structures that are not the result of a fungus.  All the components that have little blood flow, like connective tissue, tendons, ligaments, cartilage, sclera and viscera over the organs are predominantly white.  I just don't find anything scientific or compelling about a guy presenting only as evidence of the fungus, the fact that the tumours tend to be white.  Even infections where whitle blood cells accumulate tend to be white. 

Diagnosing by colour is weak evidence because there are other reasons why things could be white.  It sounds as scientific as saying the moon is made of cheese or the sun is lemon.  The stuff of little boys or nursury rhymes.  The best evidence, a properly stained microscopic slide of a fixed and sectioned sample of a tumor, something a microbiology lab would no doubt have great expertise in, could easily and clealy demonstrate the fungal infection.  You don't show some gross cross section of a tumor and point at a portion and say "fungus", you use a magnified view and show the definitive proof.  If he's got better proof, why hold it back?  It suggests dishonesty.

motheroffoursons

It seems to me that some people on this forum have an attitude that is "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts".

The baking soda issue should have died long ago. 

My tumor was "tan colored"  according to my pathology report.  Does that mean it was not cancer as cancer is white? 

Anonymous

Ya think?

crazy4carrots

There is little point in continuing to discuss an issue with someone who doesn't/can't/won't appreciate the rigours of science.  As Byron wrote:  "Where I come from, education is often referred to as brainwashing".

Guess Byron thinks that's what we're doing.....

Hindsfeet

Do you naysayers think that your sarcasm and mean comments help whatever cause you are about? I almost quit this forum due to such comments and felt harassments. But decided, rather than over reacting that it would be better to be here to encourage those who are looking into the alternative approach.  I would never chose chemo, and I would never tell someone else not to. Everyone afflicted with cancer must decide what is best for them. I am glad my doctor, my breast surgeon, wants her patients to partner with her. She is head on cancer research and politely listens and considers what I have to say.

Those of us who have struggled with cancer don't appreciate being put down. This is not a community board to harass women who are honestly seeking alternative ways to fight cancer. Let's, let this thread die..and agree to disagree.

Husband11

Barry, I really don't want to be a discouragement to anything that might be helpful, and its not my place to say something is useless.  I completely agree that everyone has a right to choose treatment options.  I do though have so many unanswered questions about the bold statements made by Simoncini, that need answers before I would accept it. 

I like the distinction many have made between alternative therapy and, now I'm grasping for words, co-therapies.  I'd hate someone to take a high risk cancer and treat it solely with something unproven.  Or, participate in something risky that has little or no benefit.  No offense meant to you whatsoever.  If you have something to add to the fungal theory that I am ignorant of, please do speak up.  I'm open to new ideas, the fungus hypothesis is intriguing, but needs more evidence in my opinion.

Hindsfeet

Timothy, I don't mind opposing viewpoints or even challenging the whole baking soda hypothesis. Its how things are said and speaking down to those who hold different view points that bother me. Name calling and put downs are immature and not necessary.

I think the whole fungus hypothesis is intriguing as well. It's my opinion that not all cancers are the same. Perhaps some cancers are caused by a fungus. I would like to read more about this.  It would be nice to see this discussion continue if its about the fungus theory and not about people's ego; and if we could discuss this like adults by being sensitive to one anothers feelings. In our discussions, we might ask for the readers opinion...especially on articles we post.  Or, read this and let me know what you think. If we disagree, to politely say, I hold a different opinion or graciously say, could you send me more information or verify the info. People are more apt to receive what is said if we are gracious and loving. We can't force our viewpoint on anyone.

Most who comes to these boards are wrestling with cancer..and these people need to be encouraged, validated, and heard. I don't want to burden my family with health issues or health concerns. This is one place where I can talk to people who have wrestled with the same questions, and fears that I have. Most of the time, I'm comfortable, and I'm learning.

Finally, I don't need a guilt trip for chosing alternative medicine to prevent another bout of cancer. This is my choice, my life.

Maybe Timothy, if you want to continue this discussion on fungus, begin a new thread..on the fungus factor or something... The thread I posted here is really messed up, and I fear it would discourage a newbee.

motheroffoursons

Barry, you wrote "Most who comes to these boards is wrestling with cancer..and these people need to be encouraged, validated, and heard."  I think that we who oppose this "cure" feel a responsibility to these people to recognize false cures and quacks.  That is why we are so vehement in our opposition.  Take the baking soda/maple sugar cure if you want, but we want to clairify to others that it is a worthless cure without any scientific basis.

Hindsfeet

What I said had nothing to do with the topic...its the put downs and sarcasm that hurts. Truth can be said nicely. I never supported or said anything about maple surup...I wouldn't take it orally. However, I am not convinced by anything you said that the Italian doctor is a quack.

No one has a corner on the market when it comes to cancer cures. The cause of cancer is unknown, as said by my bc surgeon. They are guessing, throwing drugs and whatever...in tests trying to find the magic cure...and I'm not putting the medical establishment down for that.

 I' have a difficult time respecting people when their comments are rude. Some of the comments reminds remind me of my young adolescence students...trying to up one. I am saying, we could all be a lot kinder in our comments. And, I would like to research the whole fungus - cancer connection. And yes, if my cancer returns invasive, I might visit the Italian doctor..I'll try anything over chemo. I prefer using a little baking soda over poisoning my body.

Have a good day...we all need one. B Barry Joyful

Anonymous

Is it just breast cancer that is a fungus? Or all cancer?

Why doesn't it respond to anti-fungal medications?

Why can't you just sprinkle some baking soda on melanoma and make it go away?

How about baking powder? Does that work too?

Barry, what is your issue with chemo? Most of us get through it just fine. Do you know what the survival statistics are for people who refuse conventional treatment?

Deirdre1

LB13 it isn't your business that barry has "issues" with chemo, only that she has said she is not interested in it here.. Chemo doesn't have a perfect track record and if she chooses to find another way to address her cancer that's her's to do..  Don't be a bully LJ13 - just go off and strinkle your own cancer with fairy dust (proof positive that conventional medicine works) and be on your way.  Nothing is absolute in medicine and yes there are certain thing that have been found to be helpful in conventional medicines but many of conventional medicines treatments are harsh on the body with no guarantees (have you ever wondered why there are no guarantees in medicine - it's because the treatments only work (if they workd at all) in a very small number of situation (and I am speaking about cancer here not headaches)  and again you got through it, but that doesn't mean she has to put herself through it unless it is her choice..  People are looking for alternatives to conventional medicines BECAUSE they hold very few answers within conventional medicine. 

Anonymous

I asked a simple question. If Barry objects to the question, that's her business. Not yours Deirdre.

Deirdre1

You tend to attack, I'm trying to stop that - you are on an open forum so I can certainly respond!  I have come to understand that your intent is not "pure" you have some agenda and usually set out to hurt - if I want to comment on that I can.. try to tone down the sarcasm and again try to restrain that "bully" within.   If Barry has a problem with this I'm sure SHE will let me know herself..  but as long as you are on an open forum it is appropriate for any of us to try to prevent you (and others') from attacking - which is usually your calling card!

Hindsfeet

How about baking powder? Does that work too? LJ13 are you being sarcastic? Do these type of questions promote healthy communication? It sounds to me that you are making fun, which is what kids do when they don't know better.

I am not about to bite your carrot (chemo question) adding fuel to the fire. Many women on the alternative board and the other boards choose chemo. I respect their decision and support them in it. I've read other threads where  this issue has been discussed, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. It's a sensitive subject, and no one needs to be harassed about a decsion they've made. We all need to do our own research and be fully convinced in the choices we make. It just happens with what I know at this time that I' am not comfortable with chemo. Someone else may choose chemo...and for them it is good.

I have had 2 bouts of high grade dcis and if it recurs again and its invasive, I will know where to go. I have a great support group right here.  I will seek out Flalady wealth of information. She is one superwoman who is stage IV and done her homework. She's been around the block a few times in various cancer treatments. Deirdre is the kind of person whom I know would tell me the truth. She also has a way of caring for the women who comes to the community boards. She's got your back, and stands behinds the bc sisters..also a wise woman. I've also come to apprecite vivre, and many of the other alternative ladies research and support. I know that these women along with my doctors would be there to help me work through whatever I had to face. For now I'm changing my lifestyle so that I won't have to face another dx...and it if happens...I'll be ok ... because of these bc ladies ... who care.

Your question to the baking soda..I don't know...but if I had skin cancer I would try it...I would try anything that doesn't have horrible side affects. Sometimes our grandparents medicine is the best.

Thanks Deirdre for backig me...

LJ13...don't worry about all of us...take care of yourself, and have a wonderful day.

B Barry Patient

Anonymous

I had no intention of attacking you. I don't attack people. I attack bad information.

And I was just curious about your decision.

Since you have PM'd me in the past, I didn't realize that you were holding such hostility.

Please don't PM me again.

Hindsfeet

LJ13   I pm you one time to express my hurt, and that I was curious about why you were on the alternative board. I really wanted to see what was going on in your head. You never answered my pm so why would I pm you again?

 I do not feel hostility toward you...actually not at all. I think you need a little help in learning how to communicate your ideas without alienating people. When someone puts something out there you don't throw stones at their ideas...in the use of sarcasm. Like I said earlier, no one knows everything. Let's treat one another with a little more respect.

 Up to recently I had no idea who you were. I picked up your negatism, and dismissed it as immaturity or you're having a bad life or something...who knows??? 

I don't hate you. I suggest...out of a good heart. 1. work at a cancer center, and find a audience who will listen. 2. Write a book on your ideas...against alternative medicine. 3. Be patient with us, and treat our questions and search gentler.

LJ13...take care...I know that inside you must hurt as well. B Barry

fairy49

Amen Barry!!

Anonymous

Barry, your speculation about my psychological state and/or motives is rather rude and unwelcome. I can deal with this 2 ways: by responding in kind, or by reporting the post. I choose #1 to illustrate my point. You know nothing about me (as most of us know nothing about any of us), and deriving such a conclusion is as risky and hurtful as if I were to speculate that you are in complete denial about the seriousness of your condition, and that you choose to forego chemo in the future because you are afraid and are caving in to fear, and that you seek desperate solutions in alternative therapies to assuage your fear. Hmmm. Not quite as much fun when you are on the receiving end of amateur psychologizing, eh? And my suggestions to you are to 1. get counseling so that you can accept the reality of your diagnosis 2. find new friends ... one of the ones you list believes that Stage 0/DCIS people have nothing to contribute on these forums 3. take some science classes. All offered with honesty and compassion.

Byron

LJ13,

Your comments are still not dealing with science (this is not a psychology discussion).  Do you have some study or information to show how/why cancer is not fungus?

Byron

Anonymous

Why yes Byron. You can do a DNA test to determine that cancer cells are human. There is a full set of human chromosomes (give or take some that might be damaged). Fungus, OTOH, have a different number and array of chromosomes. That would pretty much prove it.

Can you tell me why no other scientist anywhere in the world has published data showing that cancer cells in lab dishes were sprinkled with baking soda, or baking soda with maple syrup, and died as a result? This does not take enormous funding. Just about $10. And that's with organic maple syrup. Non-organic could be done for about $7. Of the thousands of scientists studying cancer, why has not a single one found this to happen.

Byron

LJ13,

Do you want to give us a link to your research?

Byron

Anonymous

Byron, I am not a researcher. If you are so interested, do your own research. I'm sure if the line of inquiry has validity, someone will finance you.

Byron

"LJ13 wrote:

"Byron, I am not a researcher. If you are so interested, do your own research. I'm sure if the line of inquiry has validity, someone will finance you."

I accept your apology.

Byron

Hindsfeet

First...LJ13, forgive me if I hurt you.

Second, if you recall I said, . I picked up your negatism, and dismissed it as immaturity or you're having a bad life or something...who knows???  wasn't psychoalyzing you. I'm merely stating my response to your negative comments...and ended it with who knows??? in that I don't know what is going on inside your head. BUT... it seems to me that you know everything. There is one way to believe and if you don't agree, you're stupid. This is the message that comes across to me.

It is not necessary for me to explain to you why I chose not to pursue treatment after surgery. But will say, most of my friends, and my doctor are comfortable with the decision I made. I did not mindlessly decide not to go with conventional medicine. And when I spoke with a rad/onc about my concerns, he agreed with them, and admitted the likelyhood of a recurrence was only 5% greater for a recurrence if I didn't.  I did a lot of research and made the choice that I can  comfortably live with. This is what we all must do, and respect one another for it.

I really don't want to argue or fight. I came back to this thread with the suggestion to put the posted topic to rest. I will continue the study of fungus and cancer connection. Just not at this time, on this partiuliar thread.

I thinks it is best if we just let this go. Nothing good is going to come from this.

B Barry

AGBDavid

Bryon,

Dr Simoncini did not use sodium bicarbonate with Maple syrup, he used a 5% misture of sodium bicarbonate with dose of 500 mg for six days and did that for number of sequences I don't remember how many, but you can find his website very easily and he has a lot of information on how to treat various cancers, I was interested in prostate cancer and he feeds the mixture directly into the two arteries that supply the prostate and has good success.  I personally believe he is a sincere person and has found a way to fight cancer that will one day will benefit many people.  I suffered from H-pylori for over 30 years, maybe part of the cause of the prostate cancer I have had to deal with.  I am still up set with the AMA, because they are so stupid, veterinarians had been curing hogs with H-pylori for 45 years with antibotics and the guy from Australia was ignored and tried to be done away with by the big drug companies.  I am no expert on the matter, but I was told by a health store owner that a lady said that an oncoligist had told her to blend 12 oz of grade b maple syrup with one third cup of aluminum free sodium bicarbonate in a pan on low heat and stir until you saw the change (not very scientific), they would form a bond of sugar and bicarbonate which would supposedly make it through the stomach?  Once in the blood the cancer would suck in the sugar and the bicarbonate thus killing the cancer cell.  She had bladder cancer.  My wife also has bladder cancer and her doctor is going to treat it with a virus that will cause her immune system to engage the virus and kill the cancer at the same time.  It has been used for quite a few years.  Seems like the sodium bicarbonate pumped into the bladder like his virus would be much safer and I believe it would kill the cancer.  What do I know?  I have been avoiding the doctors toxic medical treatment for me since 2003, they did talk me into LUPRON for a total of two years, 4, four month injections in a row and two others on different occasions.   

GointoCarolina

A friend of mine had a Basset with colon cancer. The vets at Cornell said there was nothing she could do. She started enemas of baking soda after reading about Dr.Simoncini and her dog is almost his old self.She has always fed him an all natural diet and of course continues. Jackie

livingontheedge

I'm new to this discussion group and I have found several of the conversations interesting, informative and insightful.  I have also found some of the discussions not applicable to the people who are so desperately searching for answers or even clues.  My wife was diagnosed with stage 2 triple negative breast cancer back in January and had the very aggressive 2.8 tumor removed with clear nodes.  When we were told that the only treatment was chemo but the chances of the cancer returning was still very high, we started researching both conventional and alternative therapies.  Reading the reports and studies well documented on chemo treatments on triple negative breast cancer still didn't seem very promising or very encouraging.  My wife has not completely apposed doing chemotherapy but decided that before she started chemo that she would at least use some alternative therapies while trying to get her body into a healthy balance.  Her PH had been 5.8 before starting on some basic nutritional supplements such as magnesium and other minerals, selenium, coQ10, green drinks and even a natural chemo called Poly MVA.  After one month we tested her PH and is regularly holding at an optimal 7.4.  I myself tested own PH and found it to be even lower than my wife's PH and I started searching what I could do to balance my own.  I came across the info on the sodium bicarbonate and decided to put it to the test last week.   Before I started the sodium I was about 5.5.  For 2 days I took a 1/2 of teaspoon twice a day in my green drink mix.  After day one I was already at 7.3 and by the end of day two I was between 7.5 and 7.8.  For the first time in my life my bodies PH is at an optimal balance.  I have read that cancer can not grow or even survive when above 7.5 for more than 14 days of balance.  Dont know if this is true or not ??  But those who are fighting cancer or those who have a loved one fighting cancer...,  isn't this what these forums are all about?  Searching, studying and sharing!

Beatis

Some of you in this thread have asked for research that proving Simoncini's baking soda cancer theory wrong. This research has been done, albeit not by Simoncini. You can read about the outcomes here: http://anaximperator.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/tullio-simoncini-and-the-research-that-wasnt/

See also this site, by a pathologist/scientist, explaining that cancer is not a fungus: http://www.123hjemmeside.dk/cancer_is_not_a_fungus/

Re: Livingontheedge:

I had triple negative breast cancer myself, with clear nodes. Because triple negative breast cancers often react well to chemotherapy, I decided to have adjuvant chemo. But that's everyone's personal choice. However, surgery alone (surgery being the primary treatment for solid cancers) should give your wife quite a decent prognosis already, because of her having clear nodes.

Re: Byron and Lindasa:

An important factor which makes scientific research so expensive is the development of new drugs. But baking soda does not have to be developed and is also very cheap. Because there is no need to develop expensive drugs, research into the efficacy could be done by any university hospital and  involvement of the pharmaceutical industry would not be necessary. This would make such a study relatively cheap. The reason this has not been done is because in vitro an animal research has shown that there is no indication that baking soda will do anything in terms of curing cancer or even slowing down its growth. On the contrary, research has shown that baking soda often stimulates cancer growth.

Beatis

Re: livingonteedge: 

May I ask how you have tested the PH?

anondenet

Beatis,

Do you have a study to back up your claim that baking soda "often stimulates cancer growth" in humans?