Cytoxan and Taxotere ?

sdstarfish

Hi, Joanne, If your course is running like mine, maybe you will be feeling pretty good by Thursday. Today I felt great. Yes, great! I got a massage at a place that gives two free massages per month to bc patients. My 2nd one is booked - the day after Round 2 infusion. I also did a mild yoga class at the hospital. Then I pigged out on Indian food. I guess I was making up for lost time
How is everyone else coming along/
Hey, Charlie: What's the status with your hair?

Happy 4th!

Charlie451

Hi all. Lisa my hair has starting falling out right on schedule with some noticable scalp discomfort at day 17 then on day 18 (yesterday) I was shedding more hair and faster than the family dogs. It has taken so long to start falling out that I had begun to hope I might keep it. But NOOOoo.
I am puzzled by your headache. It seems like the treatments - did you say acupuncture? and massages are working. That is just great that you are feeling better! I have been feeling alot better than I expected, too.
I have tx#2 friday so I am not really looking forward to it. I hope my neutrophils are Ok as they have been very low. If they are still way low by friday I wonder what they will do? Shot and treatment or no treatment and no shot and wait for the nuetrophil count to rise? As much as I dread treatment I do want to stay on schedule.
Seems like everyone's treatment is different despite taking the same chemo.
Hope you all have a nice 4th of July.
Charlie/Linda

joanne_elizabeth

Hi everyone,
Glad to hear things are looking up for you Lisa.
I am still fairly tired after a few hours, but am better than a few days ago. I had some headaches going the first few days after treatment as well.
I got the neulasta shot routinely the day after tx, so hopefully that does what it needs to do.
I am still surprised this TC knocks you out the way it does, the onc said the first one would be easy !
Linda, have you buzzed your hair? I keep trying on my wigs and fussing with them every day, waiting ...

Joanne

Charlie451

Hi, Joanne. I had my hair cut really, really short about a month ago. So now when it's falling out, it is just in alot of fine, tiny bits. I tried some Burt's Bees avocado hair and scalp moisturizer on hair that was left today and that seems to have stablized things for now anyway. Tomorrow it could start up again. Then I'll make the buzz or not ot buzz decision. I know what you mean about fussing with wigs. They just don't feel right but generally look good. Plus they can get hot. Earrings work pretty well with little or no hair and a scarf or cap.
Linda

momoftwinbooys

I started TC last Friday and have felt very short of breath. Did any one else have this issue? I have also been very constipated. More concerned about being short of breath.
thanks

joanne_elizabeth

Hi everyone,
I think today is the best I have felt so far post TC on day 8. Thank God !
I have not felt short of breath, but I would find that worrisome if I did. I think I might run that past my onc. I had a racing heart after taking the steroid, but no shortness of breath.
I have sucked down at least 75 oz of water every day and eat as many fruits and some veggies (their taste has changed for me) every day. I had a tad of constipation the first few post chemo days, but nothing too severe.
I am so happy to approach feeling human today.
I do keep hoping my hair doesn't go, but I guess I better wake up and smell the coffee!

Joanne

zap

I just passed through this while attempting to get to another topic and found you ladies. I finished up on cytoxan and taxotere in December. It all seems so long ago, but of course it was not. I have hair again and yes it comes in curly. I love my hair but I know it won't last (the curls, I mean). I did have shortness of breath to the point that I called the onc. to see if it was normal. I was trying to walk a lot and they said I was pushing it too much. Eventually the shortness of breath did go away but it was scary. The worse thing I remember was my mouth and the taste of food. I would gargle with salt water and that felt so good afterwards. I also dabbed BIOTENE (a mouth wash that helps mouth sores) on mouth sores. Now the smell of Biotene makes me feel sick. I threw the bottle away! I worked throughout the whole thing (I am a teacher) except for Mondays. I received the treatments after school on Thursdays and felt just great on Fridays. It all set in on Saturday and on Sundays I was a mess. Started emerging back to health on Mondays and then back to work on Tuesdays. I remember the hair drama well! I think you can just expect to lose your hair. I purchased an expensive wig which I hoped insurance would cover but it did not. Everyone loved my wig. I was so happy to ditch it a month ago as I never felt myself in it. If you teach 8th graders, you need a wig! It is different for each person. I absolutely expected the worse and so I was somewhat surprised to find out it was tolerable. I also ran into a messy work situation and I was not encouraged to return as quickly as I did. That got me into rebellious mode and I was determined to show my boss she was wrong.
I wish you ladies well. Soon it will be over and will be a dimmer memory as it is for me now.
Susan

joanne_elizabeth

Susan,
Thaks so much for all of the insights. Just curious, what made you decide to keep working? I finally went back to the office today and it made me feel a tad more normal to get out of my house.
I was sooo happy to get home though and take off my disguise(wig), but I am practicing being bald.
Joanne

zap

Hi Joanne:
I have no idea why I wanted to go back to work, but I sure did. It may have been a bit of denial on my part. I was just plan stubborn about it and it turned out to be a good thing for me as I find that the more active I am, the healthier I feel. Breast cancer just came out of nowhere for me. I just didn't really take it all in it happened so fast and I think that I thought if I stopped working, it was real. Of course it was real! I amglad you are feeling better. The wig is yucky. It must be especiallty so during summer. Do you take 4 or 6 treatments?
Susan

Cynthia1962

Hi Ladies,

I just finished reading some of your posts and wanted to share some of what I've learned so far while in tx. I hope you find it useful. Btw, I've had 4 AC and 1 out of 4 Taxotere (every 3 wks) - not what you're having but it seems as if a lot of the side effects are similar.

Christine26 - I had hemorrhoids, too, with and w/o the big C. It was very distressing at times, especially since they bled as well. I tried a lot of things, but the best for pain was Neosporin + pain relief. I've heard that Preparation H can actually make hemorrhoids worse so I've avoided it, but Tucks are helpful.

Lisa - so sorry to hear about your headache. I was so afraid of having that se. As it was, I only got a headache on the day of my infusion, but that combined with the nausea made that the worse day of chemo week for me. After trying a slower infusion, and taking mega ibuprofen before hand, we finally, on the last day of AC (of course, lol) found what worked which was another bag of saline after my AC infusion. I don't know if that will help you, but I know a lot of women do find relief from it. I never would have thought it was my problem because I drank water during my infusion, but it was the only infusion where I didn't get a headache. I hope you're feeling better.

Since many of you are talking about eating fruits and veggies I'm just wondering if you've been warned not to eat them fresh when your white count is low. This is usually 7 to 14 days after tx and is called neutropenia. My onc said to be careful when my white count is under 2.0. The info I have says no fresh, frozen, or dried fruit, no honey, no unpasturized cheeses or dairy products, and no raw fruits and veggies unless they have a thick skin such as oranges, bananas, and such, and no raw meat, and seafood. I found the restrictions difficult at times because I always seemed to crave salads when I couldn't have them. lol Sometimes, when I really wanted a particular fruit or veggie, I would just wash it with soap and hope for the best.

I also wanted to share that I recently started taking glucosamine with chondroitin at my onc's suggestion for bone pain from the taxotere and I think it's helped with pain from the Neupogen shot, too. This was the first time I had so little bone pain from those shots. I'm so excited! So, if the bone pain becomes a problem, you might want to consider it.

Oh, one last thing, I've found, at least for me, that most of the side effects have not been cumulative. The fatigue after my first tx was actually the very worst it's been and I feel fine now. My onc warned me that the Taxotere would cause more fatigue than the AC, but I haven't noticed it yet. The only cumulative se's have been the skin dryness and chemo brain.

Good luck, everyone, and I hope you don't mind my jumping in here with advice. I hope you all feel better soon and do well with the rest of your treatments.

Cynthia

charkleroad

Cynthia and Susan:
Your advice is very much appreciated. Happy to hear the side effects are not cumulative. I just finished my second dose of TC yesterday (Thursday). Feeling fine today. But, from my first dose experience, Saturday and Sunday were rough for me when i was off all meds.

Hemorroids all of sudden got better as soon as I started Steroids. (Anti-hormone). Wonder if they will come back when I stop Steroids.

Cynthia and Susan, do you have any long term side effects from your treatments?

THANK YOU,
Christine

Cynthia1962

Hi Christine,

Glad to hear your hemorrhoids are gone. I hope they don't come back. I haven't had them so far since starting the Taxotere. I'm crossing my fingers they won't be part of this tx.

So, I'm trying to think of what long term side effects I've had and it's hard to even remember all the effects I've had thanks to chemo brain. So, chemo brain is definitely on the list and has gotten progressively worse with each tx. I didn't think it could be much worse than mommy brain but it is. I'm glad to hear there's a treatment for it now because I just may need it before this is all over with. lol

I've also had sore joints and muscles throughout tx that's gotten a little worse each time. I can no longer kneel on my knees and I'm very careful to not bump my elbows. And, just having my kids grab me or jump on me hurts a lot. Lately, my muscles have felt like they want to cramp, if that makes sense. My feet keep trying, actually, but I quickly change position and it stops. Now my back is doing it. I'm wondering if I might be low on potassium.

The only other long term side effects have been tender gums and dry skin, oh, and heart palpitations (but those could be from the neupogen shots).

I hope this weekend is better for you than it was last time.

Cynthia

joanne_elizabeth

Thanks to everyone for all of the helpful hints and ideas about what we might expect.
Has anyone had problems with insomnia? I find I am waking early in the AM which of course doesn't help get thru this.

I had palpitations from the steroids, but fortunately I don't have to take them for another week and a half.

Joanne

sdstarfish

Girls, I feel so good! I am so happy. I think that from now on if I can just soldier up in advance for the week of agony, then it won’t be so bad. Because for three days I have felt awesome. My appetite is completely back. I even took a one-hour walk today. The only thing bothering me is my digestion, but I guess that will just be screwed until I’m finished chemo. Acupuncture, anyone? Or perhaps it's my cancer-a$s-kicking supplements.

Cynthia thanks so much for your input about whether Taxotere is cumulative. That kind of eased my mind.

Joanne you are so funny! Practicing being bald! Since you are basically on my timetable, I’ll bet you are checking your head every day like me. I still have hair. Day 17 is on 7/18, and that’s when my onc said I’d lose it. Lovely – as that is day 3 of next treatment.

How are you doing, roweofmaryland? Worried about your shortness of breath.

Hey, have any of you started recon yet? If so, do you have a port in that area? Gosh, one port insertion was a bad enough experience. Now I hear I may need one there too. Major OUCH.

joanne_elizabeth

Lisa,
Hope you are still feeling well. Which supplements are you taking? Did you run them by your doc?
These heat waves seem hotter than usual with my chemo bod this summer, but I am walking every day usually.

Joanne

hockeymomfl

Christine,
I had the same reaction to the 2nd treatment and they told me I was only the 2nd case tht they had seen. I only had a couple of drops too. Started to get weak, breathing difficulty and chest tightness. They stopped the treatment.

sdstarfish

Hi, Joanne:
My onc knows and doesn't care about the supps. He thinks it's all hocus-pocus anyway!

For chemo side effects I take astragulus for healthy bone marrow/red cell function, maitake mushroom capsules for keeping the white cell count up (P.S. - my count was higher than average when I started chemo, so they must work!), fish oil capsules for heart health and omega oils, vitamin C, folic acid, and Quecertin (anti-tumor). Oh, and I take melatonin at night (anti-tumor). According to homeopathic research, in addition to lowering the negative impact of the side effects, these actually help chemo to work even better. If you ever want to read an interesting book on this stuff, check out:
"How to Prevent and Treat Cancer with Natural Medicine" by Dr. M. Murry, Dr. T. Birdsall, Dr. J. Pizzorno, and Dr. P. Reilly. They are M.D.'s, and they substantiate their advice with research references throughout the book. They never tell you to stop using medicine or anything like that. In fact, they encourage you to keep your onc clued in to everything.

joanne_elizabeth

Lisa,
Thanks for all the info. I have also been taking astragulus and mushrooms, but have cut out all antioxidants except if they are in my multivitamin since I understand they are not good to take during chemo, they also protect cancer cells. I have also started with D3 since they are saying that helps.
Havent done quercetin, but will check that out and ordered the book on amazon.
How is your hair? I am looking every morning, but so far I still have hair!

Joanne

charkleroad

Hi Cynthia:
Had my second dose on Thursday. Satuday and Sunday stayed home. My heart has been palpitating every now and then. Last time, it did go away after a few days. Hope this will be the case again this time.

There is a cancer support group get together tonight. Not sure if I will be feeling well enough to go.

Hemorroids are better, but not completely gone. Hope it won't get worse.

It's a very hot day (close to 90). Hoping for a walk later.

Thank you for your input and suggestions. We are here for each other.
Christine

sdstarfish

Hi, Joanne:
I still have hair. I cut it above my shoulders because it's been so long since I had a haircut that it was getting gnarly. Supposedly the big hair loss day is this Wednesday. Boyfriend arrives back on town on Thursday (after a month in Asia!), so I've got that going for me
Is your next treatment next Wed.? Mine is next Mon.

joanne_elizabeth

Lisa,
Good luck with the hair. I am glad your boyfriend with be around to help you thru the next phase. So far mine is intact as well, but I am always checking.
My next "treatment" is a week from tomorrow. Now that is something to look forward to - NOT! I guess I have to think one done 3 to go. Are you getting 4 as well?
Joanne

Cynthia1962

Had my 2nd dose of Taxotere today. For some reason the premeds effect me more with Taxotere than with the AC even though they are the same. I have to fight to stay awake, and if I don't concentrate on what I'm looking at then it seems to be moving. lol I also can't walk out of the infusion room on my own. I have to lean on someone because it feels as if someone poured lead in my legs. Very strange. I came home (friend drove me) and fell right to sleep (thank god my mother was able to stay and continue to watch the kids for a little longer). I'm starting to feel a bit better. Tomorrow will begin the "waiting for the other shoe to drop" game. lol My onc wasn't concerned about any of my side effects as usual. He was glad I'm in chemopause and having hot flashes. Guess it's a good thing. I don't see him again for 6 more weeks when I'll have my last infusion. I'm telling myself that means he doesn't expect me to need him before then and it's a good thing.

Oh, I gained 4 lbs! I knew I had gained something because all my clothes seem too small or tight and I can now wear clothes that were too big. I was shocked that it was that much, though, in only 3 wks. Everyone is thrilled but me. lol It's going to take some getting used to, especially the jiggly part around my waist now.

Christine - So, my first Taxotere was the first tx without developing hemorrhoids. I'm wondering if it was the cytoxan that was causing it? I hope yours go away completely soon!

Are you feeling better yet from your last tx? I had heart palpitations last night. I sure hate those. I hope yours have quit already. It's hard to feel relaxed when having those or at least it is for me. I wanted to see a cardiologist by my onc is convinced everything is fine.

I've experienced a bit of hair loss since the 1st Taxotere, but it hasn't been much. However, I'm pretty sure the eyelashes are starting to go. I wonder how long the eye brows will hang in there? Sigh! I'm going to miss those.

Oh, I mentioned the burning mouth sensation I get and my onc recommended l-Lysine as well as the salt water and baking soda rinses. I've been taking lysine actually, but I don't think enough - it should be 1000 mg a day. I'm so hoping it's better this time. Between that and my tender gums and sore bones in my face, I have a hard time imagining I ate enough to gain 4 lbs. Must be a lower metabolism or something.

Good luck ladies! I know it's going to be hard when your hair starts to fall out, but you can do it. It really hasn't been that bad. When I'm wearing my scarf or a hat, most p don't even look twice and the ones that do just smile and move on. A woman came into my onc's office today while I was waiting and she was "topless". I want to be that brave someday. I'm getting there - I get the mail topless and opened the door topless to a stranger trying to sell something, hehehe, and he didn't run away. lol I'm just afraid of having to deal with comments from strangers. I like to be ignored while in public so I can do what I need to do and go home. Fortunately, in this case, my children are usually acting like barely control animals which keeps most people away from us.

Wishing you all a great week!!!

Cynthia

sdstarfish

Cynthia,
Thanks for all the real info
Guess what, Joanne? My hair started coming out in clumps today. So very wierd
My friend was going to shave it tomorrow but I chickened out. I want to see how fast it falls out first.
You know that feeling you have when your ponytail is too tight? Well, that's what my whole head feels like.

daphne98

Hello ladies
I am new to this board and I find it excellent. It is a very good source of support and useful advice for women who go through the ordeals of breast cancer treatment. My best wishes to all of you !
I am going to start today chemo with Cytoxan-Taxotere. I live in the UK and there is no much experience with this type of treatment. The initial suggestion was to have AC followed by Taxol dose dense. However, after what I read the latest comments for the side effects of A I had a debate with two oncologists and I opted finally for the TC regime. I hope it was a wise decision, because though I am stage 1 (IDC 1.4 cm, node negative, no signs of lymphovascular invasion beyond the excised tumour)I belong to the high risk triple negative group (grade 3).
My onco suggested I could try a dose dense (every two weeks) TC regime. Has anyone done it ? Any experience ? I have read that it is still in trials and is associated with higher toxicity (mainly skin toxicity which cannot be controlled easily). Any relevant info ?

I really appreciate your comments. This site has helped me tremendously to make up my mind about my chemo treatment and find strength. Many thanks

Daphne 98

joanne_elizabeth

Daphne, about 4 weeks ago a researcher in the US stated that he believes only 8% of the women who get adriamycin benefit from it, that if you don't have the Topoli(sp)gene it has no effect at all on you. He is the man that was responsible for herceptin I believe. Very discouraing news since they do not have a test for that gene. My onc said she would not do dose dense unless I had 4+ positive nodes. From what I have read in trials dose dense was no more effective than dosing every 3 weeks.
Cynthia, are you sure it is the premeds or the taxotere that is giving you the side effects?
Lisa, you just scared me silly! So I may have til Friday to have hair? I have wigs but it is 95 degrees in NJ this week. I guess it will be a hot, hot summer! I may wear a wig to my son's soccer game tonight, just to get the soccer people used to the new me. Good luck with it and let me know how it is going. A week til my next infustion. Ugh!

haruna

hello Joanne,
I am new in this forum, I have a have a problem of Leg pains caused by fracture. can i know the adquate treatment to take. i have taken treatment for 6yrs now with out solution.
Thanks
Haruna.

joanne_elizabeth

Sorry I don't know anything about leg pains, have you asked your doctor what might be causing it?

charkleroad

Cynthia: My heart beats seem to be normal now. However, I am having a very hard time with bowel movements. very painful. Found some info on Chemocare.com. The chemo is killing all rapid dividing cells in my body. The affected areas would be hair, nails, stomach and bowel area. Having been sitting in warm water a few times a day. It seems to help a little.

Joanne: I almost asked my doc to give me TC every two weeks instead of 3. A friend of mine said the dose dense ACT is more effective than every 3 weeks. Wonder if you still have that info? ( every 3 weeks is just as good as 2 weeks).

Daphne: I thought TC is for Er+ and Pr+ Breast cancer. Am I wrong?

Christine

joanne_elizabeth

My doc wouldn't give it unless I were ER-.
This isn't the article I had read but it says about the same thing.
http://www.ufscc.ufl.edu/Professional/content.aspx?section=conferencecoverage&id=35828

"Evolving data suggests an inverse relationship between endocrine responsiveness and response to chemotherapy. Thus, patients with good risk features and high endocrine responsiveness may be treated with hormonal therapy alone while non-endocrine responsive tumors may benefit from the most aggressive types of multi-agent chemotherapy, including taxanes and dose dense schedules."

Traci-----TripNeg

Hey ladies,
I'm on day 6 after my first treatment with Taxotere only. Is anyone else doing just Taxotere?
I feel awful. My bowels are all screwed up and my lower back is killing me. I'm having a hard time staying awake right now too but...wanted to come on and see if anyone else was having the same probs....Man, I can't wait til I'm done.
Hugs,
Traci