Cytoxan and Taxotere ?

klwinsa

Jessie,

Glad things went well for you today. Hope things continue to be easy this tx.

Kim

sdstarfish

Hi,Ladies:
I've gotten myself together somewhat now. Thanks for letting me freak out. There are just those moments when I'm in so much pain I can't take it. Severe pain at the base of my skull, and all around my forehead. And when I lay down, it hurts worse. On top of that, the TC has given me a very painful stomach ulcer that feels raw - like a scraped knee, but on the inside. In those moments, I feel like there's never going to be a time when this is behind me. I know that it will pass, it just hurts so much. I do plan to go to the onc nurses tomorrow. And tonight I am going to try sleeping in a seated position.

Jessie, I hope I haven't worried you.

Cynthia1962

Hi Lisa,

Your head pain sounds like Neulasta pain. Are you getting the Neulasta shot? When I was first getting the Neupogen shots, it seemed to effect my head the most and especially the back of my head and my forehead. This probably doesn't help you, though. Perhaps, if they give you the Neupogen shots instead, your head pain might not be so severe.

Hope you get some relief soon!

Cynthia

charkleroad

Cynthia:
Have you tried Sitz bath yet? I sit in it twice a day. Warm water with a little vinegar. It does help.

Lisa: Curious to know what your doctor has to say abut your bad headaches...

JayDub

Hi Lisa-

Don't fret about worrying me...this board is keeping me honest, and will allow me to paint the worst case scenario picture that I need to keep in the back of my mind.

I am feeling pretty normal today, but have read that days 3-5 tend to be the ugliest. I wonder if that is because the last steroid (decadron for me) is day 2...does anyone know? I suspect the steroids may interfere with the effectiveness of the TC, which is why they are shortlived.

Tomorrow will be another day so it will be interesting to see how this plays out for me. I was hungry today, a bit flushed (but no temp), and felt well enough for a 45 minute walk with my hubbie. I am now putting in some work-work.

Surprisingly, the onco nurse told me yesterday that the worst I should expect is fatigue and mouth sores. They will watch my blood count, possibly needing to shoot me up with neo-whatever which may introduce further complications from the sound of it. She said my hair would thin but probably not fall out..which is kind of a bummer since I just forked out for a wig that looks similar to my hair now, only much better...lol! I'm wondering if my TC dose is "lite"...my diagnosis was IDC, 1.8 cm, negative nodes, Stage 1, Grade 2, ER/PR receptive (90%), her2-, Oncotype DX score of 20. I'll have to ask when I go back for blood work in 10 days or so.

Well, I'm taking it one day at a time. My birthday is Sunday so I'm hoping not to feel too poorly...but will be sure to milk it for what it's worth if I am!! My 17 year old son has already told me that his gift to me will be a day at the spa...bless his little (big!!) heart. He will make some woman very happy one day!! I told him a massage would be sufficient.

Take care Lisa, I hope you are feeling better soon!

Jessie

Charlie451

Hi. I'm popping in from the June '07 chemo thread. I keep up with you fellow TC folks even though I don't always post.
Jessie - I was ready for all hair to go which most of it did on day 17-18. I have about as much hair left as my 8 month old grandson has on his head. Maybe that's what they mean by "thin" hair. You will need that wig.
Lisa - What does your onc say about the headaches? Allergy headaches start at the base of my skull and go to the sides of my head. Could you be allergic to chemo??? Or other stuff they are giving you? Just a thought. There is never a dull moment with this experience. I know the pain just makes it that much harder to bear. All are in my prayers.
Linda

sdstarfish

Hey Girls:
Went to the hospital today and onc was on vacation. Another onc told me to take tylenol or motrin. By then I was getting quite annoyed. These are not OTC headaches. So I told the onc nurse that I need a prescription drug. She goes back to the the subbing onc, who says I should take an anxiety drug or a strong anti-nausea drug so I can sleep. As calmly as possible, I then explain that this is not an anxiety or nausea issue. Finally she gets me a prescription for Tylenol with Codeine.
Is it an allergy? At this rate we'll never know. But I am seriously considering declining the Neulasta for my next treatment. I was reading the side effects today, and I'm not too thrilled with what I read.
Went in for some acupuncture, and I was such a mess that they gave me an extra long session. Thankfully, that dimmed the headaches.
Jessie - I'm on day 25, and I still have some hair. My bald spot at the top gets bigger every day, though.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

Cynthia1962

Hi Lisa,

So glad you got a bit of relief, but I'm sorry you had to go to the ER and still had to fight for help. I'm wondering if maybe it is an allergy to the Neulasta. One of the se's I get from the Neupogen is heart arrythmias and tachycardias and I was told it's an allergic reaction. My onc nurse told me to take Benedryl. I hope you start feeling better!

Cynthia

joanne_elizabeth

Lisa -Glad to hear you finally got some meds and were strong enough to fight them for them.
My onc seems surprised these tx wipe me out? Why? She said typically they get worse as you go on. Let's hope not.

I am on day 4 of tx 2 and trying to hang thru the weekend. Every time I shower about 1/2 of whatever hair I have left comes out. Today I will need something, a wig, a bag whatever before I go out. Even though you know this is coming, it isn't easy. Everyone I see lately seems to have soooo much hair. Funny how your perspective changes.
This is starting to make me feel truly asexual.

Joanne

Barbeqrn

Hi my name is Barb and I am brand new to this site....I am on Taxotere and Cytoxan and wondering the average tx number most women are receiving...4 or 6?

JayDub

Hi Barb-

Welcome! I'm pretty new to this myself. I just finished the 1st of 4 treatments of TC. From the previous posts I seem to think that 4 is the norm...one every 3 weeks. I hope you are doing well.

Jessie

Barbeqrn

Thanks for your reply! I have know this particular MD for about 12 yrs, as I am a nurse practitioner and he mentioned 6 treatments with TC 3 weeks apart...I have bargained for 5 instead! I finished the second last Thursday and had more nausea,,,the first was a breeze! I am StageIIa, one node involved,mass was 12mm, Herneg estrogenpositive. I opted out of the Adriamycin secondary to the cardio effects although the MD mentioned 4 DD AC and Then 4 TC which I thought was overkill!

joanne_elizabeth

I finished the second last Thursday and had more nausea,,,the first was a breeze!

What makes this a "breeze" for some and challenging for others? I felt fairly awful most of yesterday?

daphne98

Hello ladies
Barbeqrn: I saw your question about 4 vs 6 cycles TC. If you find more info please let me know. My onc asked me the same question: how many do I want to have (???). I think the standard treatment is 4 cycles every 3 weeks, but it seems they do not have enough data to say if 4 cycles tx is as good as 6 or if more cycles have an advantage (the only official trial with TC I found was a comparison of 4 cycles TC vs 4 cycles AC and TC seemed to be better). It also seems to me that oncs are a bit cautious when they omit the A part and switch from the AC + T regime to TC. Quite often they tend to counteroffer 6 cycles of TC. However, please let me know if you find more because I am still trying to solve my dilemma: How many bloody cycles should I have ? ...

I really sympathize with all of you ladies who do not feel well after the chemo course. I wish I could have a magic trick to send you all my support and caring feelings.

Joanne-Elisabeth: Many people seem to have different reactions to each cycle. I hope you will get better soon. After a few days the symptoms subside. Although some say there is no accumulative effect of chemo, logic would indicate the opposite. All the damage chemo does in the healthy cells cannot be fully repaired by the time the next course hits, so I guess to a certain degree there is accumulative toxicity. I hope it is not much. Fatigue is also accumulative … and our the levels of our patience drop …

Keep your courage ladies, we will do it and be out soon.

Daphne98

Lynn12

Hi Ladies,

I had 6 tx of TC three weeks apart and had my last tx on 5/8/07. My onc never offered me 4, in fact, he said that by the time I get to the last tx, I might not want to do it, but wanted me to remember that if he thought 5 tx would be right, then that's what he would prescribe and really wanted me to finish all 6. I did notice that most women get 4 tx. I had a very large 7.5cm tumor multi-focal. I don't know if that played a role in the 6 vs 4.

Best of luck ladies!

Lynn

sdstarfish

Joanne, I totally hear you about the hair! Between the 20 lbs I've lost and the big bald spot, I look like a little old man.

Cynthia: I think the Neulasta is now officially on my sh%@ list
I'd like to say that the headache meds helped. But they turned out to be my worst nightmare.Yesterday was pure hell. The drugs that they gave me for my headaches (Vicoden and Tylenol w/codeine) caused a severe reaction, and I was vomiting throughout the day. I had to just lie around and wait for it to leave my system.All this while the head was pounding. I cried alot. I thought it would never end. But my girlfriends (one is a doctor) helped me through it, and by the end of the day I ate applesauce

Miraculaous good news: I got a full night's sleep, and I woke up with a minor headache today!

My onc will not be thrilled to hear that I am vetoing the Neulasta shot...but he'll have to cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it. It does more harm than good in my body.

Cynthia1962

Lisa - omg, what a rough time you're having. I'm so glad that you got through it and are starting to feel better. I don't blame you for wanting nothing else to do with Neulasta. I hope your onc is understanding. Are you going to maybe consider Neupogen? It isn't so much as one time and you can stop it at any time.

I hope you get to enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Cynthia

katoMato

Hi all...I've been watching, waiting, and learning and I figure that now I should just jump in...

My name is Kaye, dx 3/27/07 originally as "Mucinous Carcinoma" (which is comparatively less alarming - if there is such a thing), but after lumpectomy and SLND on 5/7 I was re-dx IDC, w/ one node involved. Had 2nd lumpectomy and Axillary LND 6/25 (longest two months of my life) at a National Cancer Center where they found another positive node (.5mm) making 2 of 14 total nodes taken) and residual DCIS. So presently, I'm Stage IIa, IDC, ER+,PR-, HER2/neu-. After a bone scan they found "uptake" consistant with either arthritis or met in my L4 lumbar. (I'm pretty sure it's arthritis, but I'm having another MRI on Thursday to be sure and then (if there are no surprises from that MRI) I start the TC regimen August 1st at 2:00.

We chose the TC because of the heart issues with the A. I have a huge problem with Vasovagel Syncopy...my heart stops when I vomit, so we try to avoid that at all costs!)

So right now, I'm waiting, and learning from all of you...Any suggestions for this next week to ready myself?

K

JayDub

Hi Kaye-

I started my TC treatment last Thursday and all is going well so far. I'm hoping that your onco will be giving you medication before your treatment starts in order to proactively counteract any side effects. Get lots of rest and get lots of good books to read...nothing too serious, the cheesier the better. My first treatment took about 5 hours, just under 3 for the actual meds, and the rest for set up (weight, blood pressure, blood work, forms/forms/forms). Bring bottled water, and have someone standing by to get you a healthy/light lunch.

It sounds as though everyone's reaction to TC is different. My first time out has been fine. I have continued to exercise (walking 2 miles a day), have been eating smaller, more frequent meals, and drinking lots of water. I went back to work today, and although I was in a bit of a fog, I was fairly productive. I have been tired, so plan on conserving energy, and take all the help that is offered...that's what friends are for. One thing that the onco told me, which is turning out to be very true, is to get your tired butt out of bed every day and try to not let this whole thing consume you. Perhaps easier said then done, but it has worked for me so far.

I'll let you know as things progress, and good luck next week as you start out on your "journey".

Jessie

joanne_elizabeth

Hi Kaye,
I am on day 7 of my second tx. I have also tried to keep active, but the fatigue is overwhelming to me at times, I practically pass out especially days 4 and 5 it seems while I am just sitting watching tv or a movie. Naussea hasn't been a big issue, but driving in cars makes me somewhat queasy, headachy especially the first couple days. Those were good suggestions about trashy novels, or one of my favs Oprah magazine. I also bring snacks like a cut apple and crackers to the infusion room. My last one took over 4 hrs - which does get long. I finally told my DH to start squeezing the IV bags! He didn't but it can feel long.
Also I would get done before anything you feel has to get done the first couple days, shopping, changing sheets kind of things. I am not too productive the first few days. The good news is about a week later I am starting to remember what normal feels like.
Joanne
PS The one SE I seem to have had is insomnia - I wake at about 4am every morning.

sdstarfish

Hi, Kaye:
Welcome to the boards! I want to add that I get free videos or books on tape from the library beforehand, and get some of your peaceful music together in case you're feeling totally beat and need to relax.
You will notice on these boards that there are a lot of conversations going. Don't feel pressured to say hi to each one of us each time. We don't care about that. We all know how tiring chemo is. Just read and contribute as you can

katoMato

Hi Barb,
They have me on 4, but I'm wondering about why that instead of 6...

joanne_elizabeth

Hi everyone,

Kaye,I beieve the typical number of cycles for TC is 4. That is what I am supposed to get.

I like the idea of getting movies and books for the first several days post TC, but find I sleep through just about anything no matter how interesting it might be during those times. I like to watch the Lydia cooks show on public tv cause I can relate to this old, balding woman, but unfortunately I can't cook like her ! I eagerly look at her head to see who is balder. I win now, hands down. I don't mean to be mean, but lately I check out everyone's hair and breasts and guess what? They have them and I don't. Oh well, let's just hope this tx kills whatever cancer cells may be lurking.

Does anyone else feel that the heat bothers them more going thru TC?
I am definitely feeling hours of being quasi-normal by now, which is sooooooo wonderful.
My 16 yr old buzzed his head as a show of solidarily, he looks so weird !
Joanne

sdstarfish

I have 4 cycles of TC too.
I am sooooo bald now. A few hairs left, but you can totally see my scalp. So wht do I still have to shave my legs??!! That doen't seem right

JayDub

Hi Everyone-

Just checking in on day 12 of my treatment. I'm still feeling great; no issues exercising, eating, sleeping, and working. I was back on Fosomax yesterday (once a week) and that did not agree with me (made me dizzy), so I'll be putting that on hold until the chemo is done. This afternoon I'm going with my daughter to the Look Good Feel Good session at the local cancer center. They tell you to come without make-up...that will be tough, I never leave the house without it!! I also got my order from headcovers.com this weekend; I am not a hat/scarf wearer, but they did have some cute/very good quality items. I'm not liking the anticipation of my hair falling out; I will probably get my head shaved at the first hint of fall-out.

Kaye- good luck with your treatment on Wednesday...I hope it goes as well as mine did.

I hope all is well with everyone.

Jessie

daphne98

Hello ladies
I am glad that most of you seem to be doing pretty well.
A quick question about hair: I still have my hair after the first TC tx (I am on day 20). Actually, everything was still in place (!) until day 17. After that day I started loosing some hair, but nothing significant on my head. In contrast, other parts of my body, particularly the pubic area, were on a glorious trip to "baldness". I have my next TC tx on Wednesday, what shall I expect ? To loose everything straight away ?
I forgot to mention that I used the cooling cap in my first tx. I don't know if it helped or simply some women loose their hair after the second round. What is your experience ?
Warm regards

Daphne98

JayDub

Hi Daphne-

I heard that the cooling cap would help prevent hair loss on the scalp, but my doctor didn't recommend it because it prevents the chemo from infiltrating the scalp area. You might want to ask the doctor about that.

Jessie

katoMato

Thanks Jessie,
I've got my chemo bag packed, and I'm ready. (Famous Last Words, eh?)
I SOOO appreciate this board.
I'll keep you posted
k

kristi2164

Hi Ladies,
I am so glad that I stumbled on this discussion. I am meeting with my oncologist tomorrow to discuss my first treatment of TC. He is suggesting 4 treatments, one every three weeks. I am one month out from a bilateral mast. I had a IDC tumor 1.3 cm and lots of DCIS. I found the lump and then it did not show up on my mammogram(12 plates) and two ultrasounds. I had two lumpectomies and was unable to get clean margins but had no node involvement. I chose to have both breasts removed because they told me that I had very dense breasts and I could not live with the worry that they might not be able to see cancer should it come back. My oncotype came back low and my oncologist said I could chose to have chemo or not. I am terrified of chemo and the side effects but know that if this where to come back and I had not chosen to have the chemo I would not be able to live with myself. I am 44 and have two kids , 12 and 9. It would be great to share thoughts with people who are going through TC also.
Thanks,
Kristi

daphne98

Hi Kristi
Welcome to the club. I am sorry about your troubles, we are all in the same boat and try our best. It seems to me that you have very good chances to be done for ever with the whole story soon. Have this in mind and remain optimistic. I guess you have a hormone receptor-positive tumour and that's why your onc did not insist strongly on chemo. According to the latest studies TC is a good choice for you. I am close to your age (40y) and have 4 courses of TC + 2 courses of T every 3 weeks, for a 1.4cm IDC, node negative, triple negative lump. I am having my 2nd tx tomorrow.
I found the first tx very mild. Nothing major: fatigue for 2 days, some minor muscles aches and slightly distorted taste in the mouth. I had no nausea or vomiting at all, to the point I took 1/3 of the anti-emetics they prescribed for me. I did not need any painkillers. I had tummy upset for a couple of days, but nothing significant. So far, I had no signs of neuropathy. I still have my hair, but it started thinning. Also, I have managed to carry on with work.
I saw my onc today and he was very encouraging: he said that usually the reaction to the first tx good predictor on how you will handle the whole treatment. Symptoms like nausea, pains, taste etc are not accumulative. Usually you follow the pattern that you see in the first course after each treatment (I cross my fingers !). Fatigue and neuropathy can be accumulative and you always have to be careful with infections.
Nevertheless, the side effects vary a lot from person to person and you can never predict it until you start. I was scared and prepared for the worse - I guess like you - but it has been OK. I know that other women had problems and really feel for them and would like to give them all my support and encouragement. However, overall TC seems to be "easier" and less toxic compared to other chemo tx.
Good luck with your decision. The most difficult part is to make it, once you do it you start moving.