I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange
Comments
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The documentary was heartbreaking, Sandy. There just wasn't any cushion for them ... Once they got behind, they could never catch up. It was possible to catch up in the old days, but no longer. There just aren't many blue collar middle-class jobs anymore. I'm no fan of unrestricted free trade either, BTW - I think that removing some tariff protections has done a lot of harm to our economy and our workforce. I don't know what the answer is either, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't involve pushing wages down to starvation levels, eliminating benefits and pensions and removing the tattered remainders of the social safety net that has kept some (but not all) people from sliding into poverty and into homelessness. I'm also quite sure it doesn't involve raising taxes on the poor and insisting that they have to "do their part" to bring down the deficit by cutting food aid, housing aid and job training funds.
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Started out this morning at 9 a.m.......now home and just sitting down to the computer at 9:10 p.m. Long day but an ok one. Putting this in and I'll come back and read in a bit.
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Alex. Go back further.....Nixon and China.
When I graduated(1969) jobs for high school degrees were plentiful and usually included training so you could work your way up. Everyone had a choice. College or work. I had grown up in chaos and needed the security of earning money right away. I got a union job, quickly qualified for health benefits, in 3 months I had a down payment on a used car, my beloved mustang. 6 months later I married my high school sweetheart who had joined the marines and we were on our own. Apartment, car and insurance payments. When he got out I covered all the expenses with my salary while he went to college on the GI bill. Got promoted twice during that period. Got divorced. Remarried to a coworker.
I would have made a huge mistake if I had decided to stay at home which was rapidly disappearing as a choice for women. We both retired with full health benefits. Sometimes it feels like we just made it before everything fell apart.
Once upon a time it could be done. -
RL - watched the Frontine, and felt SUCH despair. This has ben going on for so, so long. I can still hear H. Ross Perot's famous line "the giant sucking sound" re: NAFTA. Again, I jsut don't know enough to off any ideas, solutions. Still AMAZED at how many BILLIONAIRES are in Russia, and of course, their homes in London, totally changing the character of that city.
I feel like Chickadee, just made it "out of the rat race" in time. Lived in lovely London during the 1970's, 1980's, wouldn't even want to live there now.
RE: Frontline documentary, I cried when the woman went back to the home she lost, and was then furious when learning the new owners paid $38,000. for it. Why didn't the bank "sell" it back to owner for that price, with a new mortgage, and save themselves a lot of trouble & money - and allow the owner who had already paid SO MUCH MONEY for the house, to remain in HER HOME? This is not a rhetorical question.
Jackie - did you move to a new home??? GG - hope you are almost finalized with your new home.
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Paul Krugman -- always great to read:
New York Times columnist Paul Krugman has a great analysis in his piece “Republican Health Care Panic”. Before going into the most prescient statement in his piece it is essential to quote his interpretation of what the law does. Inasmuch as it has been explained in many forms, Krugman’s one paragraph puts it more succinctly than most.
Although you’d never know it from all the fulminations, with prominent Republicans routinely comparing Obamacare to slavery, the Affordable Care Act is based on three simple ideas. First, all Americans should have access to affordable insurance, even if they have pre-existing medical problems. Second, people should be induced or required to buy insurance even if they’re currently healthy, so that the risk pool remains reasonably favorable. Third, to prevent the insurance “mandate” from being too onerous, there should be subsidies to hold premiums down as a share of income. [source]
So what ‘horrible truth’ is it that better informed people on the Right seem to finally be facing up to? They are panicking as they noticed that
Health care reform, President Obama’s signature policy achievement, is probably going to work. [source]
For those that have followed the real news and widely available information, that should not have been hard. After-all, the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) has been working successfully and effectively in Massachusetts for several years now (Obamacare was modeled on many parts of Massachusetts healthcare).
Additionally, the information about the success of health insurance exchanges in states that care more about the health of their citizens than ideological politics, are coming in. The pricing from these health insurance exchanges, contrary to the myriad of lies and misinformation from Republicans have been much lower than expected.
Because of the manner in which Obamacare was implemented, much of it was stealthy inasmuch as it did much for most. As such it was easy to demonize.
For those who already have insurance, the fact that it cannot be rescinded or the fact that it no longer have caps which could actually cause one’s bankruptcy, though a huge benefit is rather stealthy. The fact that disease screenings must be covered at no additional cost on policies is likely seen only a few times a decade even though the cost savings and lifesaving potential is huge. The fact that pre-natal care must be covered at no additional cost ensures that America will no longer have one of the worst maternal death rates and worst infant death rate in the industrialized world. The fact that those with pre-existing conditions will be able to now purchase insurance at rates equivalent to everyone else is stealthy except for those it affect.
Full implementation of Obamacare begins in 2014 with health insurance exchanges open in October 2013. The truth will be out not by hot air but by reality. It is important that the news media, the blogosphere, and every other medium is ready to call out the lies and hold those attempting to sabotage the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) and the well-being of American citizens accountable.
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Sunny, my neighbor showed up at the auction for his own home in foreclosure and the bank told him he wasn't allowed to bid on it. Ofcourse, the banks were happy to get cheap money from the government, and overall were responsible for getting us into the big housing mess to start with. Bankers win!
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KAM - that MUST be illegal??? I hope your neighbor took the bank to court? Or to the LOCAL news outlet. DAMN, that's infuriating. The owner has ALREADY been paying money to the bank. DAMN.
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Not to change the subject, but this explanation is as good as any I've seen: BTW -- forgot to tell you Sun....I haven't moved. I did a lot of moving in my early years, but we returned home to southern ( just barely - on the farthest edge ) Illlinois in 1997. This is home for good.
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt signs the Social Security Act on August 14th, 1935. Photo from Wikipedia.
There might be no government program that repeatedly enters the public conversation as much as Social Security does. And there might be no other program that is the subject of as many distortions. Remember this November 2012 interview on CBS with Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein? Keep in mind as you read this that Blankfein is a Democrat.
BLANKFEIN: You’re going to have to undoubtedly do something to lower people’s expectations — the entitlements and what people think that they’re going to get, because it’s not going to — they’re not going to get it.
PELLEY: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid?
BLANKFEIN: You can look at history of these things, and Social Security wasn’t devised to be a system that supported you for a 30-year retirement after a 25-year career. … So there will be things that, you know, the retirement age has to be changed, maybe some of the benefits have to be affected, maybe some of the inflation adjustments have to be revised. But in general, entitlements have to be slowed down and contained.
Blankfein’s comments are wrong on so many levels it is hard to know where to begin. Let’s start with the easiest to challenge: that Social Security wasn’t intended to support you “for a 30 year retirement after a 25 year career.” Perhaps a CEO such as Blankfein might expect a 30 year retirement and a 25 year career, but for most working Americans their career usually begins somewhere between the ages of 18 and 22, and eligibility for a reduced Social Security pension starts at 62. Basic math makes it obvious that most people work for at least 40 to 45 years before being eligible to draw Social Security. In regard to the second part of his comment, very few people enjoy a “30 year retirement.” The average male will collect Social Security for 13 years, the average female for 17 years.
Blankfein mentions raising the retirement age for Social Security. Thanks to the Social Security Amendments of 1983, this has already happened once. That law provided for gradually raising the age at which a person can collect full Social Security benefits from 65 to 67 for anyone born in 1938 or later. For example, someone who was born between 1943 and 1954 will not be eligible for full Social Security benefits until he or she reaches the age of 66.
You can be sure that the folks who think it is no big deal to ask everyone to work three to five years longer are all people who have worked in white-collar professions for most or all of their working lives. They simply do not understand the toll that daily physical labor, such as working in construction trades, driving delivery vehicles, doing custodial work, or any of a myriad of other activities takes on the human body. Many construction workers and truck drivers start working in those fields when they are 18 or 19. By the time they are in their 50′s they are often reaching a point where their bodies are starting to break down from the strain. Scott Quenneville, a 47 year old delivery driver, told the Wall Street Journal
I’ve already had two knee surgeries after going up and down these trucks all day. I don’t even know if I can make it to 57 and there’s no way I can make it to 65.
This is the type of worker that people like Lloyd Blankfein expect to work to age 70, or even later.
One of the biggest distortions to come out of the discussions about Social Security is the falsehood that people live “a lot longer now than they used to.” This is a prime example of the misuse of statistics, yet it gets repeated as gospel by Republicans, Democrats, and the media. While it is true that life expectancy at birth has increased dramatically over the past 80 to 100 years, due to much lower infant mortality, life expectancy at adulthood has increased very little.
The Social Security Administration offers a table that shows remaining life expectancy for those who turned 65 in various years.
You can see that the increase in life expectancy at age 65 from those who reached that age in 1940 to those who reached it in 1990 is a paltry 2.6 years for males and 4.9 years for females.
In the CBS interview Blankfein refers to Social Security by the popular term, “entitlement.” Most Americans are “entitled” to Social Security, because they have contributed to it for years. It may be a little hard for people such as Blankfein to understand, because many of them collect the vast portion of their salary through dividends and interest, which means that they pay no Social Security (FICA) tax at all. Even those high income individuals who do pay FICA tax on their salary may not fully appreciate how much the average worker contributes, because as of 2013 the tax is only collected on the first $113,700 of income. So a $40,000 a year truck driver pays FICA tax on every dollar he earns, while a $225,000 a year corporate executive pays the tax on only about half of his or her income.
Another claim that has been made numerous times is that most people get more out of Social Security than what they paid in FICA taxes. This has historically been true. However, a 2010 report written for the Senate Committee on Aging paints a different picture.
…for workers who earned average wages and retired in 1980 at the age of 65, it took 2.8 years to recover the value of the retirement portion of the combined employee and employer shares of their Social Security taxes plus interest. For their counterparts who retired at the age of 65 in 2003, it will take 17.4 years. For those retiring in 2020, it will take 21.6 years. (pp 13-14)Remember the statistic shared above: the average male collects Social Security for 13 years, the average female for 17 years. So most recipients will not recoup all of their contributions plus interest, even as the program is constituted now. Reducing benefits or changing the method of benefit calculation will make this even worse.
It is a fact that without changes the Social Security Trust Fund will eventually not be able to continue to pay benefits at the current rate. This is due at least in part to programs such as Supplemental Security Income (SSI) and Disability Insurance which allow people to collect benefits before they have contributed to the trust fund over a working lifetime. Still, as Bernie Sanders observes, Social Security can pay 100 percent of benefits owed for the next twenty years, and 75 percent of benefits after that. Former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich has also stated that raising the earnings cap on the FICA tax will make Social Security solvent into the foreseeable future.
One final fact about Social Security: In and of itself it does not add a single cent to the deficit. What has happened over the years is that a succession of congresses, controlled by both parties, have raided the Trust Fund for a variety of reasons, and now it largely consists of U.S. Treasury securities. Remember when George W. Bush called the Trust Fund ”just IOU’s?” Those were government bonds he was talking about. Since those bonds pay interest which has to be paid out of government revenue, that is how Social Security “adds to the deficit.” Congress caused the problem, and now they want you to pay for it.
(The following website has excellent information debunking many Social Security myths: www.retirementrevised.com)
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Sun....I traveled and lived all over when younger, and lived in several states, but we returned home here to southern ( on the very, very farthest edge ) Illinois in 1997 and this is going to remain home for all time now. Even if we wanted....we are a lot older now and moving would be difficult. We do feel ( since we live in the woods by a large lake ) that due to the rigors of living in a wooded environment -- one lane road, etc. that at some point we will have to sell our house and find an apt. in town. We will be stalling that off for as long as we can.
Onward to accomplish some work....took a play day yesterday and went to the city ( we are about 75 miles east of St. Louis, Missouri ) with my cousin to go to stores and have lunch at the Red Lobster. Lots of fun....and don't think we will wait so long to do it again.
Jackie
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I don't know if it is illegal or not. I would guess NOT illegal, but the bank probably has some clause in the mortgage because otherwise people might try that more often.
We've had the driest January - June in California's recorded weather history and July is always dry, save for a few thundestorms, which we had last night. Now we have about 25 small lightning fires going on in the forest surrounding here (and in this case, where there is smoke, there's more fire, so suspect we have more fires smoldering out there yet to become identifiable). It's already difficult to breathe this air and it's only a 10 acre fire about 10 miles south. I've never seen a time where people are so worried about fire...so many houses here are in the forest.
Just the raise in a degree or 2 of average temperature over the last few decades has made our largest fires (in the West) go from 100,000 acres to over 300,000 acres. It's insane. The fuels just get drier, earlier. It's a logrithmic effect. Now, with the drought on top of the increase in average temperatures....
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Kam,
Do you have things ready in case you have to evacuate? Seems like the fires can change direction/increase in size so quickly. We are really dry in Oregon, too. Fires on the eastern side and the Columbia gorge.
Please stay safe. -
Here's who I also blame - the working class people who let their votes be swayed by prejudice against gays or blacks or illegal immigrants - or who let their churches tell them to vote against abortion. I'm not happy about the pro-Wall Street types that Obama puts in charge of his economic policy, but at least they're better than the Republicans. Maybe if so much of the country wasn't living in la-la land where they believe if government disappears, life will improve for the working and middle class instead of recognizing the truth that government intervention is essential to try to keep something for the people who aren't at the top, we could actually get some change back towards fairness. Maybe. I don't know.
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Juliaanna - I'm in town, so relatively safe from "forest" fires. There are so many people that live "in" the woods here, though. Like Fall Creek in your area. I think your advice is good though. I've often wondered what I would do in the middle of the night if my smoke alarms go off. How would I gather the cats, where are my keys, spare clothes, etc.
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Kam, good time to plan an escape. We are often threatened with tornadoes. I have important papers, etc in a valise. Sort of a grab and go thing. Of course mine is more of a hide in the closet and pray thing but if I lived in a fire prone area I would definitely give it some thought. Pets and all.
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This guy:
He believes we have a "God-given right" to bear arms. Where exactly in the Bible does it say that?? He says a lot of other things, too - "F*** libtards," "Libtards take it in the a**," and other charming turns of phrase. This is a man who's sworn to protect his town, presumably the "libtards" too, yet he's spouting all of this trash on his YouTube videos.
Nice.
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E- You haven't read the book of Exodus carefully enough. When God spoke out of the burning bush, She told Moses, Say unto Pharoh, Let my people go - and give them each a semi-automatic rifle as they leave.
And when the Children of Israel went forth into the wilderness, they took their goats and their matzoh and the guns that they had appropriated from Pharoah's royal armory.
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Alexandria....so glad my full coffee cup was not touched as I read your entry. Of course, I wish some of these yo-yo's would have to read the definiton of common sense over, and over, and over....until they die if it takes that long.
And speaking of that....yes, I completely agree with the line 'she told Moses'. If ( as so many believe ) we are made in the image of God....then there is a feminine one too. The wing-nuts should have fun with that one.
Jackie
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Hah, Sandy!
And do you think they interpret "Thou shalt not kill" as "Thou shalt not kill with anything except the guns I gave you" ?Good interview with President Obama (I love saying that -- I can hear the teeth gritting from here) in the NYT this morning. I took out a whole bunch of the links, so if you want to hear the interview or read the entire transcript, go to the article on the NYT's website here:
The New York Times
Obama Says Income Gap Is Fraying U.S. Social Fabric
By JACKIE CALMES and MICHAEL D. SHEAR
Published: July 27, 2013
GALESBURG, Ill. — In a week when he tried to focus attention on the struggles of the middle class, President Obama said in an interview that he was worried that years of widening income inequality and the lingering effects of the financial crisis had frayed the country’s social fabric and undermined Americans’ belief in opportunity.
Upward mobility, Mr. Obama said in a 40-minute interview with The New York Times, “was part and parcel of who we were as Americans.”“And that’s what’s been eroding over the last 20, 30 years, well before the financial crisis,” he added.
“If we don’t do anything, then growth will be slower than it should be. Unemployment will not go down as fast as it should. Income inequality will continue to rise,” he said. “That’s not a future that we should accept.”
A few days after the acquittal in the Trayvon Martin case prompted him to speak about being a black man in America, Mr. Obama said the country’s struggle over race would not be eased until the political process in Washington began addressing the fear of many people that financial stability is unattainable.
“Racial tensions won’t get better; they may get worse, because people will feel as if they’ve got to compete with some other group to get scraps from a shrinking pot,” Mr. Obama said. “If the economy is growing, everybody feels invested. Everybody feels as if we’re rolling in the same direction.”
Mr. Obama, who this fall will choose a new chairman of the Federal Reserve to share economic stewardship, expressed confidence that the trends could be reversed with the right policies.
The economy is “far stronger” than four years ago, he said, yet many people who write to him still do not feel secure about their future, even as their current situation recovers.
“That’s what people sense,” he said. “That’s why people are anxious. That’s why people are frustrated.”
During much of the interview, Mr. Obama was philosophical about historical and economic forces that he said were tearing at communities across the country. He noted at one point that he has in the Oval Office a framed copy of the original program from the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom 50 years ago, when the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. gave his “I Have a Dream” speech.
He uses it, he said, to remind people “that was a march for jobs and justice; that there was a massive economic component to that. When you think about the coalition that brought about civil rights, it wasn’t just folks who believed in racial equality. It was people who believed in working folks having a fair shot.”
For decades after, Mr. Obama said, in places like Galesburg people “who wanted to find a job — they could go get a job.”
“They could go get it at the Maytag plant,” he said. “They could go get it with the railroad. It might be hard work, it might be tough work, but they could buy a house with it.”
Without a shift in Washington to encourage growth over “damaging” austerity, he added, not only would the middle class shrink, but in turn, contentious issues like trade, climate change and immigration could become harder to address.
Striking a feisty note at times, he vowed not to be cowed by his Republican adversaries in Congress and said he was willing to stretch the limits of his powers to change the direction of the debate in Washington.
“I will seize any opportunity I can find to work with Congress to strengthen the middle class, improve their prospects, improve their security,” Mr. Obama said. But he added, “I’m not just going to sit back if the only message from some of these folks is no on everything, and sit around and twiddle my thumbs for the next 1,200 days.”
Addressing for the first time one of his most anticipated decisions, Mr. Obama said he had narrowed his choice to succeed Ben S. Bernanke as chairman of the Federal Reserve to “some extraordinary candidates.” With current fiscal policy measurably slowing the recovery, many in business and finance have looked to the Fed to continue its expansionary monetary policies to offset the drag.
Mr. Obama said he wanted someone who would not just work abstractly to keep inflation in check and ensure stability in the markets. “The idea is to promote those things in service of the lives of ordinary Americans getting better,” he said. “I want a Fed chairman that can step back and look at that objectively and say, Let’s make sure that we’re growing the economy.”
The leading Fed candidates are believed to be Lawrence H. Summers, Mr. Obama’s former White House economic adviser and President Bill Clinton’s Treasury secretary, and Janet Yellen, the current Fed vice chairwoman and another former Clinton official. The president said he would announce his choice “over the next several months.”
More clearly than he did in three speeches on the economy last week — the next is scheduled for Tuesday in Chattanooga, Tenn. — Mr. Obama in the interview called for an end to the emphasis on budget austerity that Republicans ushered in when they captured control of the House in November 2010.
The priority, he said, should be spending for infrastructure, education, clean energy, science, research and other domestic initiatives of the sort he twice campaigned on.
“I want to make sure that all of us in Washington are investing as much time, as much energy, as much debate on how we grow the economy and grow the middle class as we’ve spent over the last two to three years arguing about how we reduce the deficits,” Mr. Obama said. He called for a shift “away from what I think has been a damaging framework in Washington.”
The president did not say what his legislative strategy would be. Even as he spoke, House Republicans were pushing measures in the opposite direction: to continue into the fiscal year that starts Oct. 1 the indiscriminate across-the-board spending reductions — known as sequestration — that Mr. Obama opposes, and to cut his priorities deeper still.
Republicans are also threatening to block an increase in the government’s borrowing limit — an action that must be taken by perhaps November to avoid financial crisis — unless Congress withholds money for his health care law.
Mr. Obama all but dared Republicans to challenge his executive actions, including his decision three weeks ago to delay until 2015 the health care law’s mandate that large employers provide insurance or pay fines. Republicans and some legal scholars questioned whether he had the legal authority to unilaterally change the law.
The delay in the employer mandate, which mostly affects large businesses that already insure workers but are worried about federal reporting requirements, was “the kind of routine modifications or tweaks to a large program that’s starting off that in normal times in a normal political atmosphere would draw a yawn from everybody,” Mr. Obama said.
“If Congress thinks that what I’ve done is inappropriate or wrong in some fashion, they’re free to make that case,” he said. “But there’s not an action that I take that you don’t have some folks in Congress who say that I’m usurping my authority. Some of those folks think I usurp my authority by having the gall to win the presidency.” (emphasis and editorial comment added - How true. Not just in Congress but all over the country people hate the fact that a black man actually ran for and WON the presidency. They're in the minority and they HATE it.)
The president’s latest campaign for his agenda began as national polls last week showed a dip in his public support. The declines were even greater for Congress and Republicans in particular, in their already record-low ratings.
Mr. Obama said he would push ahead with a series of speeches that lay out his agenda ahead of the fights this fall with Congress. “If once a week I’m not talking about jobs, the economy, and the middle class,” he said, “then all matter of distraction fills the void.”
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SANDY - hope your next novel is a comedy! SO SO SO SO FUNNY - really, with Jackie - glad my mouth wasn't full of tea. You can "translate" the bible for me any time.
BTW - how is your novel coming along?
RL - I love to SAY it - and SING IT OUTLOUD - and give thanks daily for being able to say President Obama.
Listening to Sec. Lew on all the morning talkies..
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Yup, confirming my good opinion of the Prez.
My novel is getting there. I'm at 324. I'd hoped to have it finished by now, but DD's wedding plans, illnesses and various other stuff sort of got in the way. I would like to have it done by the end of September - at least the first draft. Hoping anyway.
Glad I didn't ruin anyone's tea. I don't think I can sustain comedy over a whole novel, but there are comedic aspects - or at least witty dialogue - with this one.
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Thinking of you, Athena!
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E, I "liked" that idjut's page so I could comment, and guess what, he deleted my comments and I can no longer comment. HA! The truth hurts!
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Blue - I wouldn't worry about that guy - he doesn't know how to do a spell check: "Our founding fathers came to America to start a new life free form tyranny oppression and dictatorship," tee, hee...
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Well, this guy's definitely a new life form. He may even be a full evolutionary step above bacteria.
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Jumping in here right after your post Blue because for him and all the idjut's ....... the truth REALLY hurts. If you are going to spew such stupidity, you should be prepared for rather large differences of opinion. Guess anyone who can't 'bear' to leave it in must know in their heart that eventually THAT side is going to get heavy and cumbersome.
Ok....on to read the rest though this will not appear at the end instead of under your avatar Blue.
Jackie
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Wow! Somebody has to come up with a great caption for that pic!
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