I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

IllinoisLady

Mea Culpa....of course.  Hope lives so long doesn't it???  I always hope their are enough with sense and reason -- but most of the time, the buffoonery goes on and on and on.

Jackie

bluedahlia

bluedahlia

Anonymous

Oh, Blue, what a treasure - I'm allergic to cats, so I'll have to paint a little bird perching on the window frame

GG - since WHEN is the USA a "christian" nation - nobody told Thomas Jefferson, who, as we all know, CUT OUT PASSAGES IN HIS PERSONAL BIBLE -ooooooo...the Founding Father, author of the Declaration of Independence, President of the United States, architect of Monticello, The Louisana Purchase - oooohhhh....he cut out parts of his bible.  What a looney idea - to call the USA a "christian" nation - a nation "under God" - but that has always been a generic term, and we all know the "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance during the Presidency of Eisenhower, those "good ole 1950's" when the USA was "omnipresent" and close minded.  But, then Good Ole Ike did give us the national highways, and warned about the "military industrial complex b4 he left office" - shudda, oughta listened to that part.

RL - that concept of "oppression" seems to resemble Ye Olde Cry of "bullying" if someone didn't agree with someone else...ah, well, nice to have these peaceful days...

Sure wish Athena would put a paw in, waiting HOPEFULLY to hear from Enjoyful - too bad Sampson can't type.

bluedahlia

Love this guy!  Poor Faux News.....ha!

http://www.theeverlastinggopstoppers.com/2013/07/religious-scholar-shamed-fox-news-shames-video/

ananda8

The Treaty of Tripoli was unanimously approved by the Senate and signed by John Adams the second President of the United States on June 7, 1797 a little over 10 years after the ratification of the Constitution.  Article 11 of that treaty says in part:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;...  http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html

The United States of America was founded as and remains (I hope) a secular republic.

crazy4carrots

Blue, I listened to an interview on NPR last week with Resa Aslan.  The interviewer had actually read his book and asked sensible, intelligent questions about what he wrote.  I understand that "Zealot" has shot up to #1 status at Amazon, thanks in large part to the Faux Noise interview!

And Jesus was the "founder" of Christianity?  Uh, Jesus was a Jew, born as one, and died as one.  I believe the Catholic Church regards St. Peter as the founder ("I will build my church upon a rock").  Please correct me if I'm wrong -- it's been awhile!

bluedahlia

You are right.  Jesus told Peter that he would be his rock.

crazy4carrots

So little Miss Beauty Queen Green couldn't even get THAT right!

Chickadee

Note to FAUX producer: reading is fundamental

pupmom

Baby blue jays, already feisty!

Alyson

Can we send some of our politicians to join yours - they are just as mad. Actually can we send them all somewhere else? All tthis nonsense about going through peoples emails and phone conversations and needing to spy on the whole country. And then you have people going on about teaching or not teaching religion in schools. State schools are supposed to be secular, there are various Church schools and that's fine. Sorry to rant a little but our politicians need to get on and deal with real issues.

Blue love the black roses.

Anonymous

notself - that is so wonderful to read - never have before - just wonderful THANK YOU...

happy Zealots is getting such good "pubicity" - just that Faux interview made me want to someday read it.

Tho I don' tthink his PHD is in religion, I think it's in sociology - still, he seems quite learned - and certainly knows his way around an intereview

alexandria58

My youngest just got a job at Barnes & Noble.  I have a list of books for her to buy with employee discount.  Zealot is on it.

ananda8

Sunflowers,

I live in Arkansas where wingnut talk radio is listened to as the word of a divine being. I just couldn't take it anymore and started to do research.  I most often just let stuff role off my back, but this silliness that the USA was founded as a Christian nation and is therefore justified in harassing anyone who isnt Christian just got my goat. It is true that the majority of founders were Christians however several were anticlerics (such as Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin) and others were Deists (Adams, Wilson, Morris, Madison, Hamilton, and Washington).

Of course I don't volunteer my opinions, but when ever someone states emphatically that we were founded as a Christian nation, I just show them an online copy of the Treaty of Tripoli.

crazy4carrots

Sunny -- Aslan's PhD is in Sociology where, in many universities, Religious Studies falls under that Department.  I'm wondering if some folks consider the title "Zealot" to be a pejorative, whereas that is what the religious folk Jesus lived amongst were called at the time.  (As I said, the NPR interviewer asked all the right questions).

Notself -- Do you ever get tired of some people describing their "god-given right" to own guns/property etc.?  Puh-leeze!  Every time someone includes god/God in a statement or for an excuse, I start to tune them out.

ananda8

I find that living among very religious people can be both irritating and heartwarming.  I find mixing religion and politics very irritating.  The most heartwarming experience I've had since living in the South was listening to a total stranger talk about his God. 

My DH and I were walking from the car to a hotel entrance when a couple pulled up in their car and the man jumped out and started talking.  At first I thought he was proselytizing but then I realized he was overjoyed that his child was doing very well after almost dying.  The man and his wife had just left Children's Hospital in Little Rock.  The man was 'witnessing' the power of his God.  I was very touched by his emotion and very happy for them.

IllinoisLady

C for C.....you made me think of a scripture though I am stating this without looking it up....something on the order of " The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away ", and I think in your answer to Notself.....part of the problem is that some of those with God-given rights as it were, just think of them as far too abundant.   I actually think that verse actually means....what is given can also be taken away. 

Hope that doesn't start a chain reaction -- just the thoughts that popped into my head. 

Alyson.. yes and then there is just good old obstructionism. 

crazy4carrots

Sorry - I don't mean to turn this into a thread on religion.  My post to Notself was prompted by something I read yesterday -- someone who was defending himself by saying "It's my God-given right to own a gun".  Which of course made me think, hey, wait a minute, God didn't have anything to do with it, so why are you using God as an excuse?  That, of course, is only just one instance.....

ananda8

Yeh, Lets not have the discussion about religion.  Too many hurt feelings.  I was just pointing out that the "political" approach is often filled with fear and suspicion.  Politics often distorts religion and after all, Jesus and his apostles didn't carry weapons.

Anonymous

Actually the deciples carried swords........When the soldiers grabbed and arrested Jesus.....



When the other deciples saw what was about to happen, they exclaimed, "Lord, should we fight? We brought our swords! And one of them slashed at the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear. Luke 22:49-50.



God given right is just an old saying that many people use whether believers or otherwise.



I don't have a God given right to own guns...I have a U.S. constitutional right!



Paula

Anonymous

Quoting the bible as if it were a factual source always makes me smile.  Notself, I always appreciate your contributions, and learn so much from your references. Thank you.  Another source of smiles, is when people force their belief that God is christian - but we've already discussed that the historical Jesus was Jewish.  Interesting. Cronin writes some good stuff about this period in history.

notself, I too am moved by people's gratitude. 

Anonymous

Jesus is a Jew, however followers of Jesus Christ are Christians. It humors me how unbelievers are such authorities on the Bible.

Anonymous

who would bother to be an authority on a piece of fiction?  Interesting mythology tho....what brings some people to this thread also makes me smile

Back to brussel sprouts - and blocking - keep forgetting to update that feature

pip57

Paula, according to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus was not happy about the violent action and healed the soldier's ear.

Anonymous

Pip, you're right about that. That was the following scripture that I didn't post.



The truth is....Jesus died for LOVE, but everything had to line up for that to happen.



He was probably ok with them carrying swords, because they were used for other things...cutting brush out of their way, etc.



Paula

crazy4carrots

One last word on this from me (I promise!):  Many unbelievers were raised to be believers, until they started studying the religion and its history.

Pip:  Are you all moved in and is everything going along tickety-boo?

Anonymous

giving thanks for blue lines

Pip = hope all is going well in your new home - "tickety boo" - YEAH, reminds me of my LOndon days...as does the rain we're now getting...

gardengumby

I like tickety-boo   Pip, hope the house is EXACTLY what you wanted and you're settled soon - or even better, already.  Pictures????

I'm gonna have to read Zealot... 

IllinoisLady

My last word....the bible has been rewritten about 27 times...first one was in Aramaic....been downhill ever since. Sunflowers you got it going on where all this is concerned.   So too does C for C...with how all we all started out.  I was late 'wising' up....still study, but lots of good authors and their works. 

GG....I sent you a p.m. a couple minutes ago. 

I'm anxious for pics too if and when they are available.  I think I mentioned before....it is usually a great adventure to start over.  You get to sort of wiple the slate clean ( even though nothing much was truly wrong with the old slate ) and not only a new house, but new neighbors, neighborhood, available stores and therefore new discoveries to be made. 

Well, time to go make my green drink --- I'm getting to really like it.  What I most like is getting more fruits and veggies.....as it is about the only way I will. 

Jackie