I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange
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Hi Girls - hope you have a lovely weekend.
I finally finished the code I was working on - looks good - maybe next week will be a bit more stress free.
Cold and windy here - love it!!!
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Good morning - can't comment on the trial, another "popular culture" I haven't followed - but did get a chuckle when Jon Stewart commented how so many seem interested in public trials, but would be loathe to serve on jury duty
Not saying it applies to all - but still don't get the public interest in these very public trials. Does seem to get the media excited tho...Hoping all have a SAFE and happy Memorial Day weekend - we're all building arks
RAIN...and more rain...don't think we'll have to water gardens for a long, long time...Still not getting much information about "deconstruction" - interesting. Still gonna do it tho' -
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Athena, calling on Athena!
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These public trials let people wallow in the sex and violence involved in a socially acceptable manner.
All while tsk tsking about how horrible it all is.Cold here today ... 43 right now. Company on the way and we will be doing a chilly cookout. But it will be sunny by then and will be more comfortable that hot and humid would be so it's not really a bad thing.
Bridge collapse in Washington looks awful. I'm just glad there was not more traffic at the time and nobody was killed. Are any of our northwesterners going to be impacted by this? Wonder how many of these it's going to take before we start admitting that our infrastructure has been dangerously neglected?
Joining the call for an Athena check in.
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Jackie, I understand your position and your indignation, but as a long time opponent of the death penalty, I have to disagree. This is not out of any sympathy for Jodi Aras. she appears to be a psychopath who deserves to rot in prison. But the death penalty is a bad thing.
First, if you think the death penalty helps victim's families - it doesn't. The appeals process is incredibly brutal on the family. It can go on for years, and as long as it's going on, the family is stuck in this waiting posture, thinking everything will feel better once the penalty goes through. They can't start to adjust to the new and terrible reality without their loved one because the question of the death penalty remains unsettled. With Life Without Parole, the killer's fate is sealed, the family can begin to move on. I've known a number of victim's families and family advocates who were initially pro-death, but saw the toll that it took on the families. They were some of our strongest allies here in New Jersey in eliminating the death penalty.
Cost - in these days of budget cuts to EVERYTHING, the death penalty is much much more expensive than keeping an offender in jail for the rest of her life. The dual trials for guilt and for penalty - the appeals, death row - all cost an incredible amount of money. And to have a death penalty requires all this. Here in NJ, county prosecutors joined with us because one death penalty case would break their budget for the year.
What the death penalty does to the rest of us - Jodi Arras may not deserve to live, but we don't deserve to become her killers. Someone has to do this. Someone has to actually trap her down and kill her - and it takes a terrible toll on everyone involved in the death process. There have been studies on the toll it takes on the men who have to take the condemned in and strap her down etc.
Finally, while there is no doubt here of Jodi's guilt, having a death penalty will inevitably result in innocent people being sentenced, and sometimes, put to death. Even with all the precautions of appeals - even with DNA, the wrong person is sometimes arrested, convicted and sentenced. To me, I prefer that society not have the ability to kill someone obviously guilty, like Jodi, who could be safely incarcerated for the rest of her life when it means that society could also kill the wrong person. I've personally met a number of people who were wrongfully convicted, some of whom spent 20 years in prison, but at least they were alive to be released when their innocence was finally proven.
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Haven't been on the board for awhile, so I'm out of the loop about many things. But I want to jump in here about the Arias trial. I am philosophically against the dp, but I wanted there to be some kind of real closure for Travis' family. It seemed more likely that she would get the dp and I frankly would not have been upset with that result. But since there was some serious dissent, I wish they would have gone for life. I think it is just outrageous that they didn't, considering the cost to taxpayers and the pain to the family of another trial. I heard the forman speak today and couldn't believe my ears. He BELIEVED Jodi was emotionally and verbally abused by Travis. The only evidence of that was an angry email he sent her after she had threatened him with blackmail, repeatedly slashed his tires and broken into his house! WTF? The jury, however, was not allowed to know all evidence the public heard, as some of that information was deemed "prejudicial" to Arias. What about the victim???
Also, AZ trial rules seem really screwed up. As long as the jury can condemn accused to death, they should be able to give LWOP. Some of the jurors may have held out due to fears that the judge might give her life with parole.
JM2B.
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In some places, conservative legislators don't want to give the juries the option of LWOP because it makes death less attractive.
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Notice the word "closure" being used more & more - remember wondering who created the word - and if "it" really exists. Don't remember hearing the word years ago....no answer needed...just rambling..
ATHENA - echoing Blue's call, roar, hope you are doing well.
LOVE the swing, blue pic Blue...feeling better? smiles to new grandbaby too..
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Alexandria, that is disgusting. I wonder if the AZ taxpayers are ok with the massive expense of a trial that could have been completed with much less cost had the jury been able to award LWOP.
Sunny, the Alexander family has almost been destroyed by the emotional and financial toll of this trial. They won't ever achieve true closure, but at least they could get back to their lives full time. Most of them live in California and traveling to/living in AZ for the last 6 months has been devastating to their families, careers and psychological health. I was really hoping they could at least put the trial part of this nightmare behind them.
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Everything I've heard from all of you does make a lot of sense. My thought at the time was....Jodi is a psychotic person ( no conscience there ) and life w/o parole --- a VERY good sentence for her, would in many ways give her something she wants. An audience to continue to manipulate. Still --- if the Alexander family has to be 'along' for the ride.....then I likely would change my mind.
As far as closure.....I've never believed in that. I don't feel there is such a thing. I personally feel you just learn to go on and live the life you were given. I'm not saying that losing loved ones is anything like the many challenges you might face in life with other things --- like say severe accidents and injuries, or having illnesses like cancer with all that results. It is a devastating thing to lose someone and so often, just as in this case, it should NOT have happened. In fact, often those are much, much harder to get through, which is why I'm willing to 'SEE' Jodi's case in a different light. I would like the Alexander family to be able to move on in whatever way they are able -- w/o the constant pressure of possibly having to re-live over and over the last minutes of Travis Alexanders' life.
Hoping it is a good day for everyone. Sunny but fairly cool here today. Won't get over 70 I don't think. We will have more rain later on in the week. Wow !!! Last year we couldn't get rain for anything. I am glad though that we are building up a bit of a stronger water table for the typical dryer months ahead.
Jackie
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I'll probably get all the strange marks on this which I detest, but here is something that just came in form Add. Info.
Fox News Host Urges Viewers To Physically Harm Obama Voters (AUDIO)
by Stephen D. Foster Jr. • May 24, 2013
Andrea Tantaros. Image fromFox News Insider.
In both the 2008 and 2012 Elections, the American people voted overwhelmingly to send Barack Obama to the White House much to the chagrin of Fox News and Republicans. Since that first election, President Obama has made an effort to make life better for people across the country. And despite obstruction from the right and disappointment from the left, Obama has time and time again attempted to compromise with the GOP to no avail. Since Obama took office, a violent streak has taken over the GOP. Conservatives across the country have threatened liberals with gun violence, bloody coups, and all out war in an effort to force Democrats to do what Republicans want them to do. Members of the right-wing have fantasized about killing the President and Democrats in general. And Thursday was no different.
A Fox News host urged her viewers and listeners to physically harm anyone who voted for President Obama because she was upset that the Justice Department had investigated a Fox reporter, as reported in Raw Story.
Andrea Tantaros flipped out during her radio show and actually incited violence against Obama supporters.
“Fox said, we’re targets, clearly Media Matters and others have put us on a target list. And they said, ‘Oh, Fox is just crazy! They’re just paranoid!’ Really? Are we? This is what is happening to our press! This is Obama’s America! It’s like the Soviet Union. He said he would change the country. He said it. And a lot of people voted for him. And if you see any of those people today, do me a favor, punch them in the face.”
Tantaros later doubled down on her call for violence after a listener called in to tell her that her request isn’t such a good idea.
“To be clear, I didn’t say punch Obama in the face,” Tantaros told the caller. “You’re going to get me arrested with this type of government. If someone voted for him! If anyone that you know who voted for President Obama, smack ‘em down.”
Media Matters recorded Tantaros’ melt-down. Here’s the audio:
At least Tantaros didn’t urge her listeners to shoot Obama voters, but nevertheless, her call to physically assault people just because they voted for President Obama should be investigated by authorities. If an MSNBC host told their audience to punch right-wing voters, Fox News would be going absolutely ballistic. Tantaros’ rage is also overblown considering that the Justice Department investigated 20 Associated Press reporters and you don’t see the AP calling for violence. Furthermore, by telling her listeners to punch Obama voters, Tantaros is endorsing violence against women, Latinos, African-Americans, college kids, independent voters, and even some Republicans. If Tantaros said this while working for any other news organization, she’d at least be suspended. But she works for Fox, and the folks at Fox don’t exactly frown down upon such things. Personally, I think it’s long overdue for Fox News hosts to be investigated for lying to the American people, spreading false information, and spewing hate speech on the air. Not to mention the racism, sexism, and the role Fox plays as the propaganda arm of the GOP. Fox News’ failure to practice good journalistic ethics uniquely qualifies that organization to be investigated by not only the Justice Department, but by the FCC as well. Tantaros’ call for violence is just another reason why Fox News should be booted off the airwaves permanently.
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The victims' families' advocates here whom I know do not use the term closure. There is no such thing as closure. It will never stop hurting, it will never be closed. But at the same time, people do have to return to their lives in some fashion. The term I've heard from victim's advocates for the adjustment is "new reality." I do think the family would be better able to adjust to the new reality without constantly having to attend appeals etc.
Jackie, the thing is, people sentenced to death get much more publicity and media coverage for the time it takes, sometimes 20 years, before the sentence is carried. People sentenced to LWOP are basically thrown in jail and forgotten by the media. Which I think would be fitting in this case.
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Jackie, thanks for posting that. Always good to see how crazy FAUX News people are.
BTW, I think broadcasts inciting to violence do not come under the protection of the First Amendment.
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I actually don't know a THING about the Arias trial. I wouldn't even know about it if it wasn't for you folks. That said - I hope she does not get the death penalty, as I am against it. LWOP is IMHO a much better option for all the reason Alexandria stated.
In regards to the bridge collapse - It was quite a bit north of Seattle in a smallish town called Mount Vernon (well - close to it, anyway). There is (of course) a route around the spot both north or south bound - but it isn't a really convenient one, so traffic between Vancouver, BC and Seattle will be impacted for an unknown period of time. We (Washingtonians) are told to avoid the area. (on a side note, apparently Google maps already has updated for the outage and detour around it). On a normal day over 70,000 vehicles traverse that bridge....
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Jackie - I read about the FooNews commentator - yuck! So glad I don't watch that kid of "noos."
RE: Bridge collapse, news reports coming out now that it was caused by truck hitting bridge?
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Yeah - apparently a large semi hit one of the supports and the whole thing gave way. The bridge wasn't actually rated that badly as ratings go. It had a safety score somewhere in the fifties as compared to a "9" that was given to one of the main north/south routes through Seattle. It was just dumb luck that there weren't more people on it - good that it happened Thursday instead of Friday evening of Memorial Day weekend. That would have been much MUCH worse.
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Why do teapublicans hate women so much?
An all-male panel of House lawmakers considered a bill on Thursday that would ban abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy across the United States, without exceptions for rape, incest or health of the mother.
The House Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution, led by the bill's sponsor, Rep. Trent Franks (R-Ariz.), has no female members.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/abortion-bill-house-men_n_3325864.html -
Given the fact that babies born at 21 and 22 weeks gestation have survived, and half of the babies affected would be female, it doesn't seem so much hateful toward women as simply adjusting current law to keep up with medical advances. Would having a woman on the committee change the medical facts?
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GG - is that a current pic of Ranier? I called my neighbors to tell them about the I-5 bridge as they were just visiting Mt Vernon a couple of weeks ago. Within an hour, we had an earthquake! Even though I grew up in the Bay Area, I only remember 2 earthquakes while living there. This was my third in Northern California. The epicenter was 5.7, about 100 miles away. I think they may have downgraded it, nevertheless, lots of people calling around "Was that an earthquake?" I lived at the epicenter in 1976 (town of about 50!); that made me think of a former coworker I had lost touch with. Found out she hit a car size boulder while driving down the Feather River Canyon in 2010. I just cancelled my weekend trip... my intuition was not to go, anyway.
As far as the Jodi Arias verdict. What totally amazes and disappoints me, are the crowds surrounding the courthouses of these prominent trials. It's as if we are going to have a public beheading and they're chanting "death death death." What kind of mentality is this?? What happenned to just respecting a jury's decision and moving on? It's just bloodthirsty.
Athena - how are you?? I keep watching for your posts or any news. Miss you. I hope you are recovering from your surgery and the Tamoxifen is treating you well. I worry about you. xxo
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I'm loathe to respond....but given "without exceptions for rape, incest or health of the mother," how could you be for this?
My friend's daughter, a surgical nurse, had to take part in an abortion mid-trimester, for a woman who wanted babies so bad, she used IVF. Without the abortion (triplets), the mother was going to die of renal failure. It was heartbreaking, but your plan would be to have the mother and all three children die?
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If you have an X and a Y chromosome and you don't have a uterus, you don't get to tell people with uteri what to do. If you do have a uterus, unless the issue concerns yours, you don't get to tell other people with uteri what to do. It's nobody's business what people with uteri do with theirs.
And oh, by the way - outlawing abortion will not stop abortions. It will just stop safe ones. Outlawing abortions will create more, not fewer, Kermit Gosnells. That was the way of life before Roe v. Wade and some people seem to have forgotten that. Unless, of course, said memory-challenged people WANT women to die.
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Kam, In that type of heart-wrenching case, the babies could be delivered, and given a fighting chance at surviving, just as the situation would be handled now if the babies were a few weeks further along.
So much of medicine is balancing risks vs. benefits, and during pregnancy the baby (or babies) adds an additional factor to be considered.
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Here he is! Wonder what he's thinking? I'm thinking I will eat him up!
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Kam - no it's not a current pic of Rainier- it was just a picture that I thought was cool. I also hate the crowds both for and against the death-penalty at every death-penalty trial and even worse at the time of execution. As far as I'm concerned it's yet another really good reason to stop the death penalty altogether. I used to be in favor of it, but as I've grown in understanding of all the reasons to not have a death penalty, my opinion slowly morphed.
I've been in a couple earthquakes - but missed the one up here in 2001 - we were vacationing in Mexico at the time. It's so weird to be in one though, it really messes with your head to literally have the ground move under your feet! Glad you are OK.
Bad news on the house hunting front. The house failed the inspection. There was black mold in a couple of the closets and some kind of wood eating beetle in the main beams under the floor. Back to the search. We're going to see one either tonight or tomorrow....
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