Outraged by TSA

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  • Joviangeldeb
    Joviangeldeb Member Posts: 213
    edited November 2010

    No. I haven't had to fly anywhere since the Breast cancer or the Gastric electric stimulator. 

  • SoCalLisa
    SoCalLisa Member Posts: 13,961
    edited November 2010

    Well, I am waiting until all the hassle is over with thank you very much..

    I remember when flying was fun

  • NatureGrrl
    NatureGrrl Member Posts: 1,367
    edited November 2010

    I've never had an issue with flying.  I've never been humiliated in any way.  I'm sorry some have, and maybe I'm too Pollyanna, but based on my own experiences and the observations of those around me and talks I've had with others who fly frequently -- I think the bad experiences are the exception and not the rule.

    As pointed out, some TSA employees will get a charge out of the power.  But I can't see that being the rule.

    I flew this past week, 2200 miles each way, and enjoyed it.  I was sure I would be given great grief over some of the things I was carrying but I breezed through security. 

    If you have a medical card explaining whatever medical device you have, you should be fine. I've no doubt it varies by airport, but my father had a pacemaker and couldn't go through scanners. Had hand-held body scans.  Never a big issue.  My mother had metal knees and hip.  Again, simple hand-held body scan.

    If you chose, yes, you can boycott flying.  I certainly don't mind personally if you do.  But:  that may put the airlines in greater financial stress than they already are, and  cause more layoffs, and as with  the way the economy has gone the last 8 or so years, the spiral downward will impact many people on many levels. Not that you should care about that, but realize that it's not a solution that necessarily has a positive result.

    My suggestion is to quit complaining -- and do something positive.  Do you have a better way to provide security?  Great -- give it to the people who can impact that -- don't give references, give the details.  I'm really sorry, but I get so tired of people who complain and suggest nothing positive.  Be part of the solution.   I have no doubt there are better ways to handle things as they are right now -- so take those ways to the legistators.  But do something positive, instead of just complaining.

  • Celtic_Spirit
    Celtic_Spirit Member Posts: 748
    edited August 2013

    Yeah, maybe this guy should just "quit complaining":

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news/

  • Deirdre1
    Deirdre1 Member Posts: 1,461
    edited November 2010

    Carol:  With all due respect I take offense at your suggestion that anyone here is complaining.  Perhaps with this discourse individuals on this thread are "part of the solution".. don't you think that concerns being aired are the first step to change?   X-Rays are or can be dangerous to any person with cancer AND these "pat downs" that border on assault can cause individuals to have a more difficult time with their recovery, therefore that makes this conversation relevant.

  • doingbetter
    doingbetter Member Posts: 117
    edited November 2010

    You know Carol, that all sounds wonderful.  But I think most of this is more than just whining.  I have been in the travel business myself for over 30 years.  Many people have made  many excellent suggestions to the powers that be over the years and it's usually to no avail.  The joke of a security system we have is a prime example of that.  Very few security experts aside from those employed by our government who are pushing the measures we've been dealing with think our security measures are adequate.  Unfortunately the biggest motivating factor for most of what is done is money and any real suggestions that have been made are not addressed.  So it is not that people are not providing ideas and details - it's that the people in charge are not interested in those ideas. Many of these ideas involve real work, intelligence and training - not just high tech equipment with low paid employees.  The better methods that have been proferred just don't equate to great financial gains for the interested parties. I also have been fortunate not to have had too many hassles yet in my frequent travels. But it does not change the fact that what many people are being subject to is deplorable and does nothing to make the flying public any safer than they were before.

  • singletona80
    singletona80 Member Posts: 224
    edited November 2010

    Madalyn - Yes, we are given instructions how to handle people with medical issues. As far as having a letter/card from dr doesnt do any good becuz TSA will still screen you. Alot of people with medical implants have letters/cards etc. but that doesnt matter, they still get screened as well. 

    As far as being screened in private, we were trained to always ask passenger if they wanted a private screening . . .(which should be you (the passenger) and two (2) TSA agents of the same gender) Plus there should be signs posted about the offering of a private screening . . . . . Yeah I know who really reads all those signs posted . . . LOL . I know I am guilty of this myself. !!!!!

     As far as the gloves go, yes I changed my gloves often.  Did I change my gloves with every single passenger?? No !!!!!!!!!!!!! If you thinking why not  (not making excuses . . . just giving reasons . . .) ie. very busy, passenger impatient etc.  

    However if I came into contact with someone with special medical needs/devices I changed my gloves every time dont wanna cross-contaminate . .(ie. medicine, medical equipment/ supplies) or if the passenger asked me to change my gloves. 

    Nor, have I ever touched a person's bare skin because clearly I could visually inspect their skin.

    Joviangle-  Tell the TSA agent that you are unable to go through the body scanner for medical reasons . . . (you dont have to be specific unless YOU want to) . Ask them for a pat down instead.  Also, if you are not comfortable with it being done in "public" ask for a private screening (which should be you & two other TSA agents of the same gender somewhere out of public view.

     

  • Claire82
    Claire82 Member Posts: 684
    edited November 2010

    I'd suggest changing your gloves each time. Not only for the safety of the passengers, but also for your own safety. Thank you for letting us know that this isn't always done. What is the protocol for this?

  • Anne888
    Anne888 Member Posts: 58
    edited November 2010

    I flew this past week, 2200 miles each way, and enjoyed it.  I was sure I would be given great grief over some of the things I was carrying but I breezed through security. 

    If you have a medical card explaining whatever medical device you have, you should be fine.

    Medical cards/doctor letters are not accepted, as they can be copied.  This has been the case for at least the past 3 years, during which I've traveled with a total knee replacement.

    I've no doubt it varies by airport, but my father had a pacemaker and couldn't go through scanners. Had hand-held body scans.  Never a big issue.  My mother had metal knees and hip.  Again, simple hand-held body scan.

    I'm a veteran of the hand held body scan, due to my metal knee.  Those are history.  Now everyone gets a vigorous hands on full body grope.  'Totally different from the old "simple hand-held body scan."

    Carol, do you wear a prosthesis?  Please share with us how it was handled.   I do wear a prosthesis, along with my total knee replacement, and I'd like to "breeze through security" too!

  • singletona80
    singletona80 Member Posts: 224
    edited November 2010

    Claire- Just make a request that the person changes their gloves if they are coming into contact with you and/or your items !

  • SoCalLisa
    SoCalLisa Member Posts: 13,961
    edited November 2010

    I think I have become convinced that the best thing for me is to take out my

    prosthesis, put it in my carryon, and walk through and see what happens...

  • SoCalLisa
    SoCalLisa Member Posts: 13,961
    edited November 2010

    BTW have you ever noticed that someone who touches your prosthesis

    when it is on the counter or something, kinda cringes when they feel it?

  • AnneW
    AnneW Member Posts: 4,050
    edited November 2010

    Even in Istanbul in 1986 we at least had privacy for the obligatory pat down.And armed militia standing nearby, too. We just dealt with it. Their airlines, their country, their rules. Back in the day before as much terrorism, but always a hijacking threat. You even had to point out your luggage on the tarmac before they'd load it on the plane, in some of the smaller cities. Not sure that's still done.

    I hate the screenings. I hate taking off my shoes. So, if someone blows themselves (and everyone else up) with a device that looks like a FemRing, will women all be subject to vaginal exams? I'm being only a little facetious here.

    There are plenty of TSA agents who do their job professionally, and I'm sure hate to be patted down when theyfly, too. Just like I may do pelvic exams for a living, but I still laothe getting one done on me. But I never think about what anyone looks like or smells like once I'm done with what I professionally had to do to that person.

    To change the subject just a tad, there's talk about contracting all this out to private companies, and get rid of the TSA. Would that make anyone feel better? Doubtful. The same rules would still apply. I think there are certainly a few bad apples as in any profession, but as a whole, TSA agents do the best they can with the often limited training and people skills they may have.

    So how do we change anything? Will it take a senator's wife having an unusually bad experience to get a law changed? Pilots' union got it changed. I would imagine the flight attendants' union is working on the same. Who's going to work on it for the rest of us?

    Security is a big, big issue. There's no arguing that. But 3 ounces of liquids, shoes off, body scans, and pat downs don't really make me feel more secure. Someone, somehow, will think up something that we'll have another knee-jerk reaction to, and we'll just put up with it--again. Boy, that sounds pessimistic, but it's sure been the trend.

    In the meantime, I'll fly. I'll be scanned and patted down. And if it truly becomes a groping, I'll be getting the name of the agent and hold my ground until I can speak with a supervisor. And that may be futile, but it's what I'd do in any unprofessional situation if I'm able.

    In the meantime, our ports, cargo, borders, etc continue to be at risk. Our political involvements are doing nothing to really promote good will and get to the root of why there's the terrorism in the first place. And since that's more of a rhetorical or philosophical subject, I can only advocate that our huge country try to learn from how Isreal and other small countries screen for "types" and tone and reasons for traveling. And still, something can happen...Like a white guy driving a UHaul of fertilizer bombs into a federal building.

    Enough of the rant. I'll blame the prednisone I'm on.

    Anne

  • ElaineM
    ElaineM Member Posts: 81
    edited November 2010

    Hi,

    I think it is against the constitution. I would suggest that all women who have had breast surgery and are using artifical breasts carry a note from their doctors to show the TSA people. I would do that if I were in the situation. I carry cards from my doctors verifying that I have metal parts in my body for security reasons. I set off security screening devices regularly.

  • bluedahlia
    bluedahlia Member Posts: 6,944
    edited August 2013

    They're gonna think I'm a Martian after my DBS surgery.  My implants can be mistaken for antennas.  That's gonna be interesting.Talk about "Close Encounters".  hehe!

  • otter
    otter Member Posts: 6,099
    edited August 2013

    There is something wonderful about living in a free country.  If we don't like what's going on -- especially when it's the government doing whatever it is we don't like -- we can b*tch about it.  We can whine and complain; we can write letters-to-the-editor or email our legislators; we can post something on a blog or discussion board; and, dang it, we are not obligated to come up with a solution to the problem. (It should be noted that some of the women participating in the TSA threads have offered suggestions).

    If I'm not mistaken, our right to complain about things our government does to us is afforded by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.  That's the one that comes 3 amendments before the 4th Amendment, FWIW.

    Celtic_Spirit, that story in your link sickens me. I really don't know what to say to something like that.  It's bad enough to be told to pull out your foob so the TSA can see and touch it, or to be told to pull up your shirt and unfasten your mastectomy bra so the agent can "take a peek" at your scars.  I would be weak at the knees, if those things happened.  Maybe not.  Maybe Mr. otter would need to post bail for me.

    Unfortunately, we are not talking about JC Penney or Delta Airlines or General Motors, all of which depend on customer satisfaction to stay in business.  If something that egregious happened to a customer of a private business, heads would roll.  Heck, if it happened to anyone except one of the minions the TSA herds like cattle through their airport checkpoints, people would lose their jobs and their co-workers would undergo mandatory "sensitivity training."

    So, we're supposed to quit complaining?  One thing I've noticed in life is that, when no one complains, nothing ever gets changed.  The errors don't get noticed, and the damage doesn't get fixed.  Why improve something, if there's nothing wrong with it? 

    It doesn't take a wild imagination to suspect that, if parents had not complained about TSA screeners groping their children's genitals, the TSA would not have backed off on the "enhanced" pat-downs of kids.  And, if pilots had not complained, boycotted (choosing to "opt out" of the scanners), and even sued, the TSA would not have found a way to excuse pilots from the new, invasive screening procedures.

    I say, complain away.  Except for singletona80, I don't think the TSA is listening to anything we say here; but I do think it helps us if we can blow off steam and share our stories.  We just might be helping readers who had somehow missed the news about the new security policies.  And, I strongly suspect the nationwide -- no, the international -- furor over these new TSA procedures is going to keep some attention on the TSA for awhile.  Maybe they will have to start justifying exactly what they do -- you know, demonstrate that what they're requiring is a reasonable approach, compared with the level of risk and the magnitude of the threat. Okay ... that's wishful thinking.

    [I had some comments in here about the futility of carrying a "medical card" and the false hope of expecting a "simple hand-held body scan" if you have a properly documented medical device; but others have already refuted those claims so I've deleted my remarks.]

    I'm sort of traditional in my beliefs about the Bill of Rights, especially the part about being "secure in my person, house, papers, and effects."  So, until things improve dramatically, I won't be flying.  And, I won't let someone make me feel guilty about that choice:  "[Boycotting flying] may put the airlines in greater financial stress than they already are, and  cause more layoffs, and as with  the way the economy has gone the last 8 or so years, the spiral downward will impact many people on many levels."

    That is quickly becoming TSA's problem -- it's not one of my making.  Both the Head of the TSA (Mr. Pistole) and HS Secretary Napolitano have made it clear that, if we don't like the screening policies, we should not plan to go anywhere on a commercial aircraft: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/16/AR2010111607033.html

    otter

  • Deirdre1
    Deirdre1 Member Posts: 1,461
    edited November 2010

    Bravo Otter!!!  Couldn't have said it better!

  • hrf
    hrf Member Posts: 3,225
    edited November 2010

    If I had been aware of these issues, I would not have agreed to go to Boston in a couple of weeks. I am dreading the experience now.

  • Colette37
    Colette37 Member Posts: 387
    edited August 2013

    Otter...that is what really ticks me off...how long before they start doing the same thing with buses and trains?  What about going into a court house?  I heard that Denver had those scanners in the court house as well as in Florida.  There is no reason to demonize EVERYONE who flies and these things do exactly that.  It is the principle of what TSA is doing.  The TSA is allowing Muslim women to pat themselves to get through the air ports!!

    If a person does not agree with the duty of their job, then they should stop.  Soldiers who knowingly commit crimes, only because they were 'following orders' are held accountable.  People who are tramatizing passengers only because they desire to PAY for a quick way to get places should be held accountable for their actions.  If everyone stands up as one, the government will change the attacking of our liberties.  

  • ktym
    ktym Member Posts: 2,637
    edited November 2010

    Otter you said it best.  What amazes me  is the acceptance of this instrusive insulting theatrical attempt at safety by some of the flying public.  I have met many wonderful kind TSA agents, but, they are now being asked to do ridiculous things.  Some day hopefully, we'll all read about this insanity in school books as our children are taught about crazy things Americans did in 2010 to feel safe.  Lessons to learn to never be repeated in the future. 

    My employer is entitled to tell me if I complain I have to come up with a solution, my citizenship isn't dependent on it. The lesson I took away in social studies in grade school was that complaints and civil disobedience  ARE American.  Boycotting IS American.   I can't guarantee I'll never be forced to fly again.  I'd fly if my parents became gravely ill and needed me there.  Anything less than that, I am boycotting flying.  I'm sure the airlines will never notice the loss of my frequent flyer miles and platinum elite status, but, I'll notice not putting up with the indignity and outrage and loss of civil rights. 

  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited November 2010

    Thoughtful and insightful post Otter. I have to fly for a business trip on 12/1 and I am dreading it. As I mentioned on the other TSA thread, I fly 3-4 times per month. I have been through the wave scanner 7-8 times. So far I have not been 'chosen' for the scatter scanner. I have had more than my quota of radiation and I will need more over the rest of my life( CT's, PET's, etc) so I am going to have to get groped when the inevitable selection occurs.

    I think I must have terrorist characteristics: WASPy looking blond/blue, 108 lbs, 58 YO. I wonder how the women in burqas are treated?

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited November 2010

    I should copy some of the TSA rules & regs onto index cards and carry them with me.  Good things to know would be -

    1.  Are they required to offer me a private pat-down?

    2.  Are they required to give me a private pat-down if I request it?

    3.  How should a TSA screener perform the pat-down?

    4.  Can I request a specific screener, or refuse the one assigned because of a poor attitude?

    5.  What are the consequences should I refuse both the scanner and pat-down?

    6.  What recourse do I have if the screener is rude and/or over-zealous?

    7.  Do they have to call a supervisor if I request it?

    In short, what hoops are they required to jump through before/during/after a pat-down?

    *muttering darkly about nonsensical, ineffective, and invasive 'security' procedures*

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited November 2010

    And remember, you can take a lighter and matches on a plane, but your snowglobe will be confiscated!

  • ktym
    ktym Member Posts: 2,637
    edited November 2010

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/11/21/greene.air.security/index.html?hpt=C2

    I thought this was pretty good.  I disagree with the comment of TSA being hired to keep us free from harm.  No one can keep us free from harm, if we could hire it done none of us would be here

  • Mandy1313
    Mandy1313 Member Posts: 1,692
    edited November 2010

    Wait, maybe I am missing something here.  The TSA has put into place a policy that strip searches everyone and  profiles anyone with a medical device and requires that they have an invasive pat-down (since the scanner will show their device).  But they cannot ask questions to isolate suspicious individuals, as is done in Israel,  because that violates those individual's rights. 

    While we are going through these hoops, the true terrorists have likely come up with a different system that these scanners will not detect. I am afraid that looking at and questioning individuals and yes, to some extent profiling them, will be the only security that will work.   It really is not any different in terms of rights than what has already been done, which is to  profile everyone with a prosthetic breast and deciding such persons will require enhanced screening and pat-downs.

    I have already written to both of my senators and suggest that others might consider doing the same.

  • CoolBreeze
    CoolBreeze Member Posts: 4,668
    edited November 2010

    I'm outraged too.  I have been reading the comments here since August as these scanners have come online.  I flew once since then with my expander but they weren't in my airport yet and my fears didn't come true. 

    Now however, they are in most airports and they are doing patdowns even when they don't have them.  I find it unbelievable that this is being done to cancer patients in the name of safety.  It's a sad, sad thing our country has become - if this is the case - if we have to be looked at naked, have our rights taken away because we have a disease - then the old saying is true:  The terrorists have won.

    I will not travel again:

    http://butdoctorihatepink.blogspot.com/2010/11/tsa-scans-and-breast-cancer.html 

    I didn't even mention the radiation that we do't need.  This is going to far, and we have to stop it. If people stop flying, the airlines will place pressure on the government.  It's the only way.  Our letters won't do much.  

  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited November 2010

    Oh, Sherri, I wish I had that option but my travel is work-related and work pays for my health insurance so off I fly. Well, maybe having even more radiation is OK since I am almost 60. Cancer usually takes 10-15 years to develop after massive radiation exposure so I would probably not get cancer again until I was 70-75.

    ARGHHH!

  • CoolBreeze
    CoolBreeze Member Posts: 4,668
    edited November 2010

    Barbara, maybe you can get a work accomodation. I'm sure your doctor doesn't want you to have more radiation.   Take the train. Do video conferencing.  Drive where you can.  People who fly for work are the people who really need to try and be the ones to avoid it because they are the bulk of the traveling public.

    And, you won't like cancer anymore at 70 than you do at 60.  

  • ADK
    ADK Member Posts: 2,259
    edited November 2010

    Isn't it time we as Americans let the TSA know that we are not stupid, we know these extra "security" measures do absolutely no good to ensure our safety and they need to find a reasonable solution that doesn't involve the rampant humiliation of innocent people?  This is outrageous and I cannot believe we are letting them get away with it.

  • ktym
    ktym Member Posts: 2,637
    edited November 2010

    2tzus, I'm not sure what bothers me more, the fact that they did that to that little boy, or the fact that he's growing up thinking thats okay to be subjected to in this country.

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