Outraged by TSA
Comments
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luckylis, that would be THE bravest thing in the world to do. I can just imagine your difiance and their shock. Perfect!
Anne
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coolbreeze, well said,
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Ladies, the only way this insanity is going to stop is when enough people who "can" stop flying and the airlines lose enough money and "they" make a big fuss about this to the government. It is so true that "Money Talks!". They need to come up with a "sane and safe" way to protect us and start with checking the blasted luggage!! It's like the idiots are giving a "How to" message to the very terrorists they are trying to protect us from! They keep forgetting they are dealing with people who pay more attention to how to destroy us than our government does in how to protect us. They had a program on it on tv last night and it insisted no one needs to be patted down as long as they agree to go through the scanner. So, ladies, just "pick your poison" as the old saying goes. Scan or get the "hand"!
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The hand. Actually, neither, I'm not flying.
The only thing I wanted to say was my disdain and outrage is with TSA and NOT the TSA agents. I'm sure given some of the news reports that there are a few with a power complex, but I think most are trying to do a good job according to what their employer tells them they have to do. I don't judge anyone on their salary. I judge on how much pride someone takes in doing an honest days work and a good job, no matter what that job may be. My personal experience has been that TSA agents are kind, polite, and trying their best to do a hard job. Doesn't change my outrage at the new policies, I just needed to say it because I would feel terrible if a TSA agent felt any of the anger I've expressed here was against them.
Someone above mentioned HIPPA. Interesting comparison for sure
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My daughter has flown cross-country 3 times in the last week from major airports, and has yet to see one of the full body scanners. Her experience has been that not much has changed. Now, we all know that there are places where things HAVE changed, a lot, but before you get too worked up, or cancel flights, I would check to see if the airport you are using has the new scanners, and if so, everywhere. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security-222/ has a current list. She said her trip out of LAX yesterday was the smoothest security screening ever!
I'm planning to opt out of the full body scan machines if I encounter them, I've had enough radiation, thank you. But my husband, who rarely flies and has only had a few x-rays in his life, will probably just go through. He's not as concerned about stuff like that as I am, and his overall risk is probably lower.
I agree that most TSA agents are just trying to do their job. Being polite about what you want goes a long way with people like that. On the other hand, there are those who seem to have let their power go to their heads and act like they are herding recalcitrant cattle. Like any job, there are those who should be weeded out, and probably won't be, at least not soon enough for the folks they deal with.
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Are you getting all that much radiation from one of these machines?....unless they are lying about it, what I read says the enegry projected per mm wave technology is thousands of times less that what a cell phone produces and so far as the xray dose produced by the back scatter it is extremely low. Maybe I feel differently about this since I am Stage lV and think what the heck with most things....I am not doing things to intentionally put my life at risk,but I at the same time am not afraid of things the way I used to be. Being a dental hygienist I take dental xrays daily and I also get scans routinely, but I am not afraid of the airport scanning device and actually after the lst time I had it, said to one of the security officers, Wow, that is so much nicer than the way it used to be. Call me stupid, but I didn't have to sit there and wait for someone to come pat me down, I didn't have to stand on those little foot imprints and have the wand waved over my knee a dozen times and in general it was just 100% easier and went so much faster than what I used to have to go through because of my knee always setting off the buzzer. But even when I did, I never found this to be humiliating, just a PIA. As I said, I am Stage lV so I seriously doubt if getting some extra rads is going to facilitate my demise. A lot of things have changed....I remember when I used to get to the airport and have to run to the gate and would almost miss my plane because of arriving so late.....now it takes forever to get through security and I also am no longer able to run. I am just happy to still be able to go places and am not going to stop flying. Yes, I think it is ridiculous when they even make my 88 yr old father take his shoes off because I have to help him get them back on and yes it is stupid to subject small children and pregnant woman to pat downs, but it's a sad world we live in today and nobody trusts anyone. If I had removable prostheses I would just take them out and carry them with me. This new system doesn't bother me, but if someone wants to start up a petition, the way they did for the age increase for mammograms, I would be happy to sign it to help out you that it does upset.
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Thanks for the link to Flyertalk, revcat. All the airports I will be using for my next series of meetings use the wave machine. No back scatter so I am fine with them ogling my droopy body. Hope they have nightmares about seeing it!
I just do not want the scatter machine scan. TSA refuses to say EXACTLY how much radiation it emits.
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cary1, If I recall, it was Muslim terrorists who attacked us on 9/11, not the other way around.
The demand came last week from the politically-connected Muslim rights organization that serves as the U.S. front for the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas. Calling the searches "invasive" and "humiliating,"the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) advises Muslim women wearing religious head covers known as hijabs to reject full-body checks before boarding planes.
Those who are selected for the secondary screenings should remind Transportation Security Administration (TSA) officers that they are only supposed to pat down the head and neck and that they should not subject Muslim women to a full-body or partial body pat-down, according to CAIR's advisory. It further says that, instead of a body search, Muslim women can request to check their own hijab and have officers perform a chemical swipe of their hands.
While Americans are forced to deal with the degrading searches, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano is actually considering exempting Muslims as per CAIR's demands. Madame Secretary confirmed this week that there will be "adjustments"and "more to come" on the issue of Muslim women in hijabs undergoing airport security pat-downs.
This is the most recent information I was able to find regarding this. Bottom line is it seems we are once again trying to be a bit too politically correct in my opinion!
Grazie, Thank YOU!
My son is honored to serve his country and we are very proud of him. Unfortunately, horrible things happen in war. It was Muslim terrorists who attacked us, so the human side of me is a bit like Juan Williams in that I am not real comfortable around them. Most of our ancestors came to this country and adapted to "OUR Ways". Not the other way around. I am one who believes if they want to live here, they should learn our language and leave the head coverings, and tent dresses behind. Perhaps a bit libertarian in my thinking, but that is how I feel.
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I'll be traveling to the States in a couple weeks and have learned that all US bound passengers have to go through a scanner first at Charles de Gaulle airport. I'm not happy.
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I'll admit, I'm not thrilled with the new security measures but having known too many people who died either on the boston airplane or in the towers, I'm glad they're being proactive in some way. Candi was only 18 when she died and another entire family I knew included the 2 year old grandaughter. How much future did those children have? To say it was devistating is too minimal. Too many of our children's friends lost their parents in the towers at Cantor Fitzgerald. I'm reminded of their loss every time we have kids gather in the house or go by houses that were sold as part of the estate sales.
I too agree that maybe we can be too politically correct. Shame on Janet Napolitano for even considering it. I am also in favor of following the Israeli lesson and go for profiling. The Israeli's seem to have the best handle on stopping terrorism on their planes.
Maya- On a more positive note, I hope you have a safe flight and an enjoyable visit.
Hopefully this world will find peace eventually. sigh.... Strength and well wishes to all those in our armed forces.
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Carol, your remark about 9/11 was in relation to what? Was there some place I indicated that Muslim terrorists did not attack the United States on 9/11? I said there had been some abuses by US forces and authorities in Iraq and Afghanistan. I am not talking about the horrors of war, or accidents. I am talking about planned, calculated abuses and atrocities. None of this excuses anything that happened on 9/11, but then I didn't mention 9/11.
Also, I didn't challenge the notion that some Muslim organizations had called for Muslim women to be exempt. I challenged this statement of yours that suggested action by the TSA. This is what you wrote on 11/24:
"And yet Muslim women are exempt from the scanners for religeous reasons! "
One more time. Muslim women are no more exempt from the scanners than anyone else. Everyone is exempt from the scanners IF and ONLY IF they choose the option of one of the highly intrusive patdowns. There is no indication Muslim women will not be searched. They will be searched the same way I wlll be searched (since I also plan to refuse the scanner when I fly in two weeks).
Finally, there is a great variation in *observant* Muslim women's dress. Quite often hijab just means a headscarf and not the "tent" dresses you refer to. I see Muslim women dressed in a headscarf and regular Western clothing (including jeans) every single day. I also don't see an indication that Muslims are not learning English, at least not in the area I live in. I would also remind you that many Muslims are American born, they aren't *coming* from anywhere. American-born Muslims include both people with heritage in the Muslim world, but also a substantial number of African Americans and some converts. But more to the point are two things. 1. This country has constitutional traditions regarding the freedom of religion that run completely contrary to what you are demanding about headcoverings. For me, these constitutional traditions are more pivotal to identity as Americans than any decision on dress or similar. 2. Other religious groups have such special headcovering/dress customs. Are you also asking that certain Christian groups, certain Orthodox Jewish groups, and others who specify headcoverings or modest dress of one sort or another also be forced to conform to the majority? Or is it just Muslims you want to deprive of their First Amendment right to dress in a way that expresses their religion? Juan Williams certainly has the right to feel uncomfortable when he sees people in Muslim garb on a plane, but it is truly irrational. The 9/11 hijackers did not wear Muslim garb. Richard Reid, the shoebomber, did not wear Muslim garb. The underwear bomber did not wear Muslim garb. At the airport, these terrorists were trying hard to blend in and there is no reason to think that future terrorists trying to board planes won't blend in too. The irony is you are scared of *precisely* the Muslims least likely to be threatening your plane.
We should all be grateful to your son for his service.
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Candi, I hope they are proactive too, but the scanners are security theater. They do not see what might be hidden in body cavities. Their manufacturer admitted they would not have caught the underwear bomber. I don't necessarily object to security theater, but I am unwilling to think it has much practical effect against this particular enemy. It has some, but not much. This enemy has lots of other options.
It would be very difficult to institute an Israeli style screening system in this country. Israel is an extremely tiny country with a very limited number of flights coming in or out. Even setting aside issues of racial profiling, issues of scale make the Israeli system of asking questions of each passenger hard to implement here. What I hope for is increased swabbing for explosives at airports, and increased use of intelligence. The underwear bomber was a known figure before he entered the plane. His own father had tried to turn him in. The British had reported on him. But the dots were not connected.
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IF these procedures kept us safer, I would not object so much. THEY DO NOT!! As several have pointed out, it is just smoke and mirrors, even the TSA says they would not have caught the panty bomber. Once again, the government is spending our tax money stupidly. The worst part is they are taking away the freedom and magic of this great country by subjecting the innocent people to these useless, dangerous, humiliating procedures. This New York Times article is spot on talking about the madness.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/26/opinion/26iht-edcohen.html?_r=1&hp
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They are even more insidious than a "security theater" though I agree with that, too. They are the very worst of our capitalist system in play: corporate leveraging through lobbying, and tax dollars tossed a company using fear mongering to make money off our backs, literally.
The oped, DesignerMom, is pitch perfect.
In some ways, it's precisely what the Astra Zeneca corporation is doing with breast cancer, pushing Tamox on everyone even low-risk.
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Flash: 'Maya- On a more positive note, I hope you have a safe flight and an enjoyable visit."
Flash, I'm a US citizen too, born there. I'm aware of the why. Did you know that Bin Laden has threatened France too? And that al Qaeda has taken French hostages? Yet, only planes leaving for the US must have passengers scanned.
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Just came through security here in toronto airport.The scanners are here but not yet being used.We were told they operate on radio waves.Not sure why they are not using them.Nothing has changed here no patdowns.
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In the United States, some of the scanners do use radio waves, but it is a minority. I guess it is the lobbying by certain companies that made it that we A. don't have radio-wave ones everywhere and B. have ones that show explicit naked images. There are alternatives to the latter, including machines that depict stick figures with just the non-flesh objects visible. There is no reason for these to be "dick-measuring machines" as at least some TSA officers apparently call them.
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My sister recently went through the new scanners. She said she waited in line for an hour and only two people were picked for the scanners. My sister is very pretty and has a nice figure. She was chosen and another nice looking woman was chosen. She didn't even realize what it was until it was over. Her husband was more upset than she was because he had an idea of what they were doing. Now, I'm not sure this is the reason she was chosen, but my brother-in-law sure seemed to be sure.
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Claire82: That is outrageous!!!! Your sister needs to get in touch with her state rep and NOW! I'm so sorry she had to go through that and if this is what is happening all over the country - well it is then molestation and not scanning!!! It doesn't matter if your brother in law is not sure, allow the state rep. to get in touch with that airport and see if it can be determined that there is indeed "profiling" occurring, only not the profiling we all expected!!!!!
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This is not really new....last December we fly into Orlando and I was wearing my swimming prostetic and carrying my regular boob in a carry on. We were cruising and wanted to go swimming when we got to the ship in case wwe had to wait for our bags. They had me step aside took it out of the box, which was the original Ameona blue case and held it up, passed it around, while I explained I had breast cancer. They weren't careful with it at all. Then I explained there was a scond one for swimming which didn't float and that was the every day one. I sort of felt I shouldn't of had to explain....there shoul dbe some type of training.
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"This is not really new....last December we fly into Orlando and I was wearing my swimming prostetic and carrying my regular boob in a carry on. We were cruising and wanted to go swimming when we got to the ship in case wwe had to wait for our bags. They had me step aside took it out of the box, which was the original Ameona blue case and held it up, passed it around, while I explained I had breast cancer. They weren't careful with it at all. Then I explained there was a scond one for swimming which didn't float and that was the every day one. I sort of felt I shouldn't of had to explain....there shoul dbe some type of training."
This would be my worst nightmare! Seriously. Was this "passing around" being done in public, or in a private area? This is so disgusting! I can't imagine the germs that were being spread onto your prosthesis. This whole scenario has me speechless.
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While this thread focuses solely on the TSA, it is actually not only about the TSA. UK airports have scanners too and they are not only used for flights to the US. In July 2009, I was scanned on arrival to Heathrow, London from the US since I was going into a transit area to wait for a plane to Paris. I was one month past chemo and probably looked pasty and weak. I had never seen a scanner before and thought it was some new metal detector. I assumed the very thorough pat down was random but I have since learned that I likely did not pass the scan due to medical devices and a sanitary pad. I point this out because this was in London England in order to change planes and to go to Paris. The US had nothing to do with it. I think it is worth while complaining to our governmental authorities, but I do believe that world wide, we are powerless to prevent these assaults by "security" personnel.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6102O220100201
Diagnosis: 6/2008, IDC, 1cm, Grade 1, 1/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- -
Cary, I am not trying to personally attack your views or beliefs. Assuming that it is absolutely correct that Muslim women, are "not" exempt, I would be very interested to see if any of them are being patted down. My recent flying experience has been seeing 80 year old gray haired women being patted down. You are also most likely right that they are perhaps the least likely to hide anything. As for my 9/11 reference, I am not certain that we would be discussing any of this if we had not been attacked. These are simply my "feelings" Feelings aren't right, or wrong... they just "are".
I also am not convinced that Muslim, or certainly the extremists that we are targeting, is a religion, but perhaps a cult. Just my opinion. I am very skeptical of any "religion" that encourages and teaches abuse of their female population. I have read about the treatment of their female population and it is alarming. I have come face to face w/ young gilrs in those long dresses w/ their faces completely covered and like a black veil through which to see. The men with them looked at me as if to say," I dare you to say anything." I really wanted to say, "You don't have to do that anymore, you are in America."
I read the Princess Trilogy by Jean Sasson. Fictionalized only in regard to names used. It was both disturbing and informational. The good news is some of the young women escaped that abuse.
My main concern still remains, where is our government going to stop with taking more of our freedoms away. Just today, my dh mentioned the "government" has taken over several "web" domains claiming them to be illegitimate music sites. Who knows.
And now we learn that the former TSA head is on the board of the company that manufactures the scanner machines we are using!
JUST my most humble opinions! And being a female... they may change at any given moment!
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Just a little note in here....you DO have the option of requesting a female attendent to pat you down. You DO have the option for this to be in private, and one on one.
It is not a body cavity search. Yes, they run hands up and around your thighs and groin, and they lift up your boobs one by one, but I should imagine that the female attendant isn't getting any jollies out of this either.
Asking for a female attendant will make the entire line groan and moan and it will considerably delay you. Asking for a private room will do the same thing. But since this won't be volunteered, you do have to ask. In fact, you will need to insist.
These facts are from a neighbor who travels for her job incessantly, in and out of other countries all the time. Be prepared to make a stink, and have a delay, but you can have your privacy.
The prostheses should have a note from your doctor, saying due to germs, it cannot be handled, and a serial number on it. Or just leave it at home and bring a polyfill one for airports and travel.
Good luck, all.
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carol1949- It may just be your "humble opinion", but it is also fact. My own father was an immigrant and was very proud to assimilate and become an American. I welcome anyone to this marvelous, magical country of ours who wants to be a part of what it has always been, not change it to their version. During this last midterm election, they actually had a proposal up for vote in Oklahoma. The Muslim Americans wanted to be allowed to govern themselves with Sharia law. It did not pass, but illustrates what might come. By the way, Sharia law allows stoning of women, cutting off of hands etc... We read the book Infidel, by Ayan Hirsi Ally last year. She was raised a Muslim woman and is now in hiding with death threats for speaking out against the atrocities and radical Islam movement. I consider her a special version of hero. If all the rest of the Americans are being subjected to this madness, Muslim women should not be exempt or have special handling. Just as Janet "Incompetano" said to the rest of us "If you don't like the rules, don't fly".
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I think everyone needs to be careful about referring to "Muslims". Just like in Christianity, there are HUGE variations. I dated an Iranian long ago who came from a very distinguished family of Sufi-style mystics, and they even had female leaders of their mosques. I wouldn't want to be grouped in with Evangelicals or Mormons myself, I share about as much with them ethically as I do with these Muslims.
Extreme economic circumstances tend to lend to religious fantacism. It can, could, and probably will happen here if our economy continues as it does.
If the issue is rights of women, just about every culture has a long way to go. There are degrees, but may I humbly remind us all that in our fair country, we still don't have an ERA and women make 77 cents on the male dollar. 1 in 3 women still experiences some kind of sex abuse in her lifetime. The international community thankfully has put the rights of women before religious rights, and that is more than fair when we are talking about women being subjected to things like stonings and mutilation.
If anyone on these boards happens to be Muslim, I hope we haven't offended you. I for one am grateful to the legions of immigrants who haven't entirely assimilated. They make my city a blast! Serbiatown, Mexican and Chinatown, Greektown, and on and on.
I lived in NY during 9/11, and was unable to find my husband for 48 hours. The Muslim community during that time was clear with us that most of them did not support what had happened, and they participated generously with outreach and assistance.
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MHP70- I have no problem with the immigrants who want to fully assimilate. I live in NYC and count many immigrants, including Muslims as friends. However, when in Oklahoma, they are using legal, political ways to try to change to Sharia law, instead of the laws of this country, I have a HUGE problem. This conversation began because there seem to be some Muslim women who feel they should have exemption from the TSA screenings, both scanners and pat-downs. And in the typical politically correct habit, Napolitano is examining whether we need to be "more sensitive" to them.
On a different topic, someone on another thread just posted this link explaining radiation exposure (of all types). I found it interesting. Does anyone know how much we are exposed to from rads? http://www.blackcatsystems.com/GM/safe_radiation.html
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Designer Mom - it is my understanding that OK recently voted on a law that says that judges cannot use Sharia law in ruling on cases. Where did you get the idea that someone is trying to change OK law so that Sharia rather than US will be used? Perhaps I am mistaken, but that is certainly not what I've read.
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Well, now that a terrorist has tried to bomb a Christmas tree lighting in Portland, I wonder if we'll be scanned and groped anytime more than 20 people gather? Shall our "right to assemble" now come under fire as well? When are we going to say "enough"?
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Here's an article about the incident Celtic_Spirit mentioned. The alleged bomber was a "Somali teenager": http://www.examiner.com/republican-in-portland/somali-teen-captured-by-good-intelligence-not-tsa
I read a truly funny spoof the other day about TSA's argument that they must use the same intensity of screening (Nude-o-Scope and/or invasive pat-down) on everyone, because you never know what the terrorists will do next. What if they decide to use blonde Caucasian women to transport the bombs?
The spoof addressed the difficulty those terrorists would have if they tried to recruit suicide bombers from among 80-year-old Scandinavian ladies from Iowa. It got even funnier when the writer imagined how the terrorists would convice those 80-year-old Scandinavian ladies to hide the explosives in their body cavities.
otter
[Edit: Ohhhh ... I never even thought about the "right to assemble." <sigh> What next?]
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