Outraged by TSA

BarbaraA

DesignerMom, I have been through the wave scanners in Tampa 7-8 times so far. Have not been 'selected' to go into the scatter ones yet and won't do it. I don't care what they see, I just don't need any more radiation than I have already had.

CoolBreeze

Hopefully I represented cancer patients well:

http://www.sacbee.com/2010/11/24/3208446/tsa-uproar.html 

BarbaraA

WAY TO GO, ANN!!!!!

carol1949

And yet Muslim women are exempt from the scanners for religeous reasons!  Time for people to stand up against the corruption.   Before you know it we will being led to the gas chambers like the Holocost or will be issued our 666 cards for everything we need!  lol  Who knows what the heck is going on.  Our media sure isn't telling us the truth!  And most of them are all millionaires who won't be affected by anything.

Deirdre1

Chertoff is actually a lobbyist for the scanner - meaning he is now getting money from the manufacturers and pushing them at congress and senate!!!!  It's is a mess and yes if you can avoid flying please vote against this practice with your wallet!!!  Best of luck for those who can't avoid it and I hope you can relate your experiences here after your trips!!!  Best, Deirdre

lewing

Carol, a correction (because there's a lot of misinformation out there, that I think is divisive) - Muslim women are *not* exempt from the scanners.  They have the same right to opt out as anyone else, but in that case, they're subject to a patdown.

(Full disclosure: the spokeswoman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations on this issue is a friend of a friend of mine.  She's been doing a great job trying to set the record straight.  If you're curious about what CAIR is advising observant Muslims about the new security procedures, check out this link: http://www.cair.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?ArticleID=26681&&name=n&&currPage=1

Some of the information is directed mainly at Muslim women who wear hijab, but much of it is also useful and relevant to us as breast cancer patients . . . for instance, if we were selected for screening because we're wearing a chemo head cover.)

Linda

3monstmama

No one is exempt from the procedures---Not Muslim women, not Catholic nuns, not orthodox Jews.  No exemptions. . . .which leads me to ponder, do the former presidents who go through the scanner, do they get the full pat time if they have, as I think Dave Barry put it, a blurred crotch?

 Just wondering.  Happy Thanksgiving!

cary1

Linda, you beat me to it. It is troubling how this rumor about Muslim women being exempt is still strong. The TSA has been crystal clear on this point, so the fact the rumor persists speaks volumes about our society.

 By the way, I got a taste of the hostility received by Muslim women wearing headscarves. When I lost my hair to chemo, I wore large scarves, two at a time, to make myself feel more comfortable. I would overlap them and let them trail down my back and the bulk and coverage made me feel more secure. Well I have facial features that along with the scarves led to a lot of suspicious looks in the airport and elsewhere.

Medigal

So many people are concerned about the TSA "patdowns or ups" but I heard a political program last night which was appalled that the US is doing NOTHING to check what goes into the cargo of the planes!  What are they thinking of?  They are giving the terrorist a free pass as to how to destroy the planes and passengers if they don't check what goes into the "cargo"!  This just appalls me and is so much more dangerous than what they might try to bring on board.  The rep from Washington admitted that they have been absorbed in the TSA checking passengers and just "didn't get around to putting something into effect about checking the cargo!!!  How stupid! 

BoobsinaBox

My question is, can we pat down our own breasts (or chests, for those of us who are breast-less or wearing foobs) or crotches, and have our hands swabbed, as Muslim women are allowed to do?  I don't really want to feel myself in front of someone else, but it would be better than having them do it.  Does anyone have the answer to this?

Dawn 

Medigal

Boobs:  Get real!  They pat us to feel for "hidden" things.  Do you really think a terrorist is going to pat themselves and say "Oh lookie, I found a small bomb in my drawers".  That would be one honest terrorist and I don't think it fits in with the way they are trained. 

BoobsinaBox

Medigal,

I did not post to be ridiculed.  I am asking a serious question, in light of the posted regulations about a Muslim woman being allowed to pat down her own head then tested for residue.  I am not objecting to her being allowed to do this.  I am asking if the same regulation applies to those of us with other sensitive issues, like breast forms or ostomy products.  

Dawn 

CoolBreeze

I think that is what CAIR is requesting, not what the TSA is doing.  But, I don't know.  if it is, than your question is perfectly legit.  We should be allowed to pat ourselves down - all of us.

But, I don't think they are allowing muslim women to pat themselves down either.

I've long known that cargo isn't screened, which makes this whole thing completely insane.  

And, even with the patdowns, if I wanted to be the Boobie Bomber, why couldn't I?  I could get a doctor to fill my implant with some explosive and set it off on the plane.  A guy touching it before I board won't stop anything.  Same with people wearing colostomy bags, etc.  Nobody is exactly testing the contents of them.  They are just feeling you.  

Bomb sniffing dogs would be a lot more effective and a lot less intrusive, but I guess the former head of the TSA doesn't own a dog training company.  :rolleyes:

mjh69

We have an enemy that will go to any means to attack us again, as they did on 9/11...Never forget...God Bless and Happy Thanksgiving.

carol1949

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-02-11-airport-scanners-muslims_N.htm

There is much information regarding this.  Also CNS news network is following it and has a link to Cair, which sent me to this link.  It sounds like they  (Muslim women who are wearing the hijib, which I know I spelled in correctly) are being encouraged to refuse the scanner.  Just yesterday a man's urine leaked out of a bag as he was patted down even though he told them he was a cancer survivor.

No matter which way we look at it, it is government run amuck! In my most humble opinion! lol

Anonymous

   Maybe I am incredibly naive' or stupid, but I don't mind the new scanner.  For some reason, it seems like I am traveling a lot more often by air than I did in the past...my fourth air trip is coming up next weekend and all of these have been since July....they did not use the body scan machine on me until I flew in Oct and I remember telling one of the security guards how much nicer it was because it is a lot faster....I have a knee replacement so was always subjected to the pat down, but really never minded that either, just hated wasting the extra time. They always would call a woman officer, would ask me if I wanted to go to a private area and I would say it was not necessary and then we would go through the routine.  I certainly do not have a body that anyone would get off viewing on these days and I also find that I have no problem with being scanned or patted down in public. At this stage of the game, I am not afraid of radiation. I have a silicone implant so there is no question of removing it for them to look at.....are they actually asking women to remove their protheses?  My port is one that is quite protrusive and shows under most of my shirts so I am often asked Is that a necklace? or what is that? if they are patting me down and I say It's my port. Do you want to see it?  No one ever has.  At my age and stage I have no pride...I would probably pull up my bra and show them my fake boob if they wanted to see it....having no nipple truly might be something that would get a few stares.  The security agents I have dealt with have never been anything but polite.  Not disputing with any of your posts, just giving my opinion. 

zap

Muslim women are most certainly not exempt.  Catholic nuns are not exempt!  Monks are not!  How silly to think that.  If they were, a terrorist would pose as one.  The misinformation is  what is scary. These travelers are most like profiled for invasive searches, if anything

Medigal

Dawn:  Sorry, I was not trying to ridicule you.  I was just confused that you were being serious about your statement.  I thought you were kidding.  In the future, I will be very careful about responding to posters who may misunderstand my response.  I was kidding about the "bomb in the drawers".  Did you not notice the smiley face?  You have my apologies for the misunderstanding.

CoolBreeze

What is most terrifying is the people  just willing to give up their protected, constitutional rights because they believe (falsely) that it makes them safer.

We have shown you that it does not.

A terrorist can put a bomb in a checked bag, and nobody is the wiser.  It has been proven these new scanners do not catch weapons on people; google the youtube video of Adam Savage and TSA for an example. They defintely don't catch a device in a body cavity, they aren't designed to do that.   The government has said the photos are safe from prying eyes, and yet Gizomodo has hundreds of them - identifable.  Exposed, that violates not only your personal but often your medical rights. .  How does patting down a woman with an implant stop terroism?  Can't a terrorist just implant an exander filled with an explosive gel in a woman and have her detonate it on the plane?  An agent can't tell the difference by touching it.  Those with colostomy bags - the material inside is not being examined. So, why not just put an explosive liquid in that?

You are no safer by this action.   In fact, you are much less safe.

Maybe you don't mind your children's private parts touched by strangers, but I do.  Maybe you don't mind naked pictures of you taken for anybody to see - but I do.  Maybe you don't care about the constitution - but I do.  As do millions of us.

So, let me ask those of you who have said you don't care:  what is the line that will make you mind?   If there is a report of a woman inserting something in her vagina, are you okay with cavity searches?  Are you willing to bend over and spread your labia for a 12 buck an hour TSA agent?  After all, it's all in the name of safety.  

We never thought they'd be strip searching us and feeling our genitals to get on an airplane, so don't think there isn't some new, reactionary and worse step coming.

And, Janet Napalatono said today that they are going to put these devices on public transport and federal buildings and it won't be long before they are at sporting events and other public places.  Anytime you go somewhere, you are going to be seen nude by strangers.  If you don't like that - why don't you walk around nude now?  Do you want your 16 year old subjected to it?  Do you really think it's only professioals who will see them?  Don't you think movie stars photos are going to get out?  

We have a constitutional right to unreasonable search and seizure.Forcing innocent people to be strip searched and patted down invasively is unreasonable and unconstitutional.  I love this country and it's the constitution that makes it great.  It makes me really sad that others don't feel the same way.

What stopped the underwear bomber?  Technology?  No, passengers.

What stopped the shoe bomber?  Technology?  No, passengers.

Who stopped Flight 93?  Passengers.

Passengers are not the enemy, bombers are the enemy.  You find them by profileing. You can profile behavior and it doesn't have to do with race or religion.  All those passengers caught those guys because they were acting strange.

Finally, there are better  ways of doing this.  Bomb sniffing dogs, for example.  However, I imagine the former TSA cheif doesn't have an investment in a bomb sniffing dog company - what he does have is a investment in a nudie scanner machine.

Medigal said it best.  If our Founders had compromised our ideals over the illusion of safety, we would all be British citizens right now. 

Courage, people.  This is wrong.  Stand up.

carol1949

coolbreeze,  I hear you loud and clear.  It is not going to stop at this.  Just in the last 2 years, we have lost even more of our rights.  Our politicians are telling us we don't know what is best and they must decide for us.  I have emailed this current administration to not even receive a notice of receipt.  Not  'Thank You, not I don't care, nothing"  They are not listening to the people of the United States.

My son is military and has been in both Afghanistan and Iraq.  There is much that no one hears through the media, particularly in Afghanistan, as there are no nice hotels  for the media to stay in!  Fox News sends people and they stay on a cot in a cinder block bunker.  Greg Tolcat used to embed w/ out military as did Ollie North.  Our soldiers have enemies lie to their face and then turn around and shoot them.  We are not fighting a war against soldiers in uniform.  These tyrants dress as women and then cry that our military shot a woman, when indeed we may have shot a male dressed as a female.  We must take control lest we be led like sheep to slaughter.

Celtic_Spirit

CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP, CLAP!!!!

{That was my round of applause for everything CoolBreeze said in her post!}

Mohini

Unfortunately, even Obama endorsed the scanners. These atrocious scanners are being validated by the media, and most of the media will say what they are told to say.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101121/21414311956/president-obama-after-traveling-with-naked-scanner-ceo-defends-naked-scans.shtml

CoolBreeze

Thank you ladies.  Sorry for all the typos, I was typing fast and passionately and my in-browser spellcheck doesn't work on this forum.

Sherri, your daughter is a hero.  I know you are very, very proud of her.  I'm proud of her too.   There are sheep and there are warriors.  Your daughter is a warrior.  Any young person who gives up a visit for Thanksgiving for her principles is my hero and you can tell her I said so.

cary1

Carol, I am trying to understand your points about Muslims. You first said Muslim women were exempt, which they are not. The link you posted does indicate they are being encouraged by some religious leaders to refuse the scanner on modesty grounds, but the same article suggests they are urged to take the pat down. That is basically my position (refuse the scanner, take the pat down) and I am not Muslim. I don't doubt that what you describe about men dressed as women in Afghanistan has happened, but there have also been abuses from our side in Iraq and Afghanistan. In any case, the self pat down of head gear appears to be a proposal for Sikh men's turbans. Sikhs are not Muslims.

 Here is a source from a conservative newspaper:

 http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-atlanta/are-muslim-women-exempt-from-screening-other-tsa-myths 

BoobsinaBox

Sorry I misunderstood the origin of the self-pat-down idea.  It sounded too good to be true.  I'll just keep not flying.  Offense recinded, Medigal.  I was wondering if I could just wear bike pants and a tank top without underwear (I'm a bilat, no recon) under a raincoat until time for the check, and carry clothes in a carry-on to change into for the flight...along with my sleeves and gloves for LE.  What would that leave them to check? 

Dawn 

LtotheK

As I mentioned, I was singled out for wearing a hat.  I was taken for a patdown, I refused to take it off, as I said it was my covering after chemotherapy.

Grazie47

carol1949

Tell your son Thank you from my family.  

DesignerMom

coolbreeze-  Whoot, whoot!  Well said!

I heard a report saying the TSA admitted that these scanners would not have found the panty bomber or shoe bomber.  What is the point??  I can't help but think some lobbyist worked very hard to get someone this HUGE government contract for scanners.  The government at work again spending our tax dollars for something that doesn't even protect us. 

Oh yeah, we are supposed to reduce our stress, not good for cancer patients.  I better go to bed now.

Luckylis

I haven't flown for a long time and when I do, I'm going to take off my top, rip my prosethics off and toss em in the damn basket with my shoes.

 This is crazy and has to be dealt with.

BarbaraA

CLAP CLAP CLAP!! Ann, I agree with you 100%. Sherri, I would do the same thing as your daughter BUT I have to fly for work. So off I go Wed. to Raleigh then on the next Mon. off to LA. Then back to Tampa on Friday. I fully intend to opt out and get groped so I am planning to allow at least an extra hour for this.  I will try and video it and will post a link to youtube if I can manage to video it.