What does your husband/loved one think about your flatness?

Momine

LOL, sherri, I am sorry but that gave me a chuckle. Can you really not understand why someone might skip recon? I had very nice breasts. Not large, just right, not saggy. A couple of silicone bags stuck under my pectoral muscle would not be an adequate replacement, for me. I also have no desire whatsoever to go through more surgery if I can avoid it and certainly not for the sake of the aforementioned silicone bags.



Otter, Jean and Bay, I am really sorry for what you are going through, and I wish there was something I could say or do to change your outlook. Maybe a counsellor would help. What helped me a lot in coming to terms with the radically different bod was PT. Getting undressed in front of the PT, having her massage the chest etc helped me accept the whole thing over time.

KorynH

I realize that this thread is for those without recon but I have read through the last several postings and would like to chime in here...only to say that I had one breast removed and reconstructed and it may as well be flat. I have NO feeling,no sensation, it doesn't look likely natural breast and I do not let my husband touch it or see it.it is a constant reminder of cancer to me. Not sex!!! The perks for the poster before who loves her new rack are probably more due to a lifetime of having very little breasts before BC. Maybe this (recon) helps her. Maybe my angst about this foob is because I still have the other to compare to and so I am fully aware how it comes up short for my experience. I had no choice in my mastectomy since that breast was filled with cancer and so maybe I feel cheated, like it was taken from me. Maybe having had a choice for some (as in BMX where one of them was profilactic) gives a sense of confidence and empowerment?! My breasts for me are my on button. I get nothing out of my sexual experience unless they,now IT (so I feel only "half"on) is there. I say all of this only to assure those of you with no recon that recon does not bring a breast back. It brings a shape to fill your bra cup,much like a prosthesis would. The perk for you is that you don't have to deal with all this incessant muscle tightening (yes, even 3 years later) and something that may resemble a breast and so perhaps a partner would be attracted to it,only to come up short handed because YOU get nothing out of it because it has NO feeling! It would be like reaching for the hand of a war veteran amputee who cannot shake your hand in return. Totally unrealistic. And very insensitive on your part to expect him to respond. That is how I have answered my husband as to why I don't want him to touch me there. Recon is definitely not what it seems cracked up to be.not for me, anyway.

kmccraw423

I don't have a SO/husband and have often wondered the same thing.  How would a man view my chest?  I waver back and forth on the recon issue because as others have said, and Karyn most distinctly, I would have no feeling in the breasts.  I hate to be selfish but why should I undergo more surgery for someone else's pleasure?  I realize that if I had a husband/SO that I truly love I might want to please him but at the same time if he had an arm or leg removed (or even a testicle) I don't think I would love him less; so why should he love me less because of two mammary glands?

I like the feeling of not having to wear a bra.  Before BC I was a 42D.  I really don't miss them.

KorynH

I think that our husbands/SO do love us no matter what but they (especially men and our culture, in particular) love breasts. Firm breasts. The men who cheat on their wives for sagging breasts and low libido sans breast cancer would be the men who would do it anyway and they are not good men. It really has little to do with the cancer or recon. You see and hear it all the time. It is difficult to escape it! A man's genitals are not a source of "turn on" for most women I know. We don't experience sex in the same way as they do. I don't mean to generalize, but that has been my experience in talking-to women. kmccraw423 put it well...it makes no sense to have one partner seek or obtain pleasure from something so unpleasurable for the other person. That makes sex a oneway street and that to me is NOT a win win.

Anonymous

Well, for the first time ever, by coming to BCO, my whole fucking beautiful morning has been thrown in the trash. Thanks, what a terrific post above about walking around with your new rack and feeling so wonderful. I haven't cried for months over my failed reconstruction, but you succeeded in reducing me to a puddle of tears in a matter of minutes. Boy, do I feel like I got sucker punched, and I don't like it one bit. In fact, I am quite angry now at how insensitive someone could be. It IS FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND as a member of BC.org how others might feel about something you post. And it has been mentioned already, you are posting in a forum where women have chosen not to reconstruct for one reason or another. I personally don't give a shit what you think about the choices these women have made. And I personally don't give a shit about why you chose to reconstruct. To get a different perspective (and how your comment has pulled the rug out from beneath me) since you are busy reading on the Living Without Reconstruction After A Mastectomy forum, why don't you have a look at the thread someone created a few days ago titled Failed Reconstruction. Or, perhaps the thread How My Thinking Has Changed Over the Past Two Yrs. Maybe you might get a sense of what compassion is or the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Hey, according to the FDA's info on implants, there's a huge chance you'll need to have revisions, develop capsular contracture, or need to have your implants changed within the next seven years. Don't worry, we'll be here to catch you if you fall, because we are a kind, understanding and thoughtful bunch. That's how we are on this forum.




Moderators, I aplogize for this outburst. This is supposed to be a safe place to visit for support.




My friends here, my apologies to you as well. I had no idea how close to the surface my grief still lies. I guess I better take the day off. Catch you later.

otter

((((Tina))))

mumito

I never even asked my DH about  what he would prefer. This is such a personal decision and I have never questioned my choices to become healthy. I would not be willing to put my body through any unnecessary surgery.My husband sees my flat scarred chest all the time.It doesn't bother him.He is more concerned that I stay healthy than how firm or perky my chest is.Remember ladies everyone is entitled to express their thoughts we don't all have to agree.I have been flat for 4 years and have never regreted my decision.I may be facing more surgery this year but it will be to save my life not to improve my outward appearance.Hugs go out to all of my BC sisters.

CLC

I have gotten a little behind here.  So, I haven't read the most recent posts...but I must respond to JustJean...  I am so sorry to hear you are having such a hard time adjusting and that it makes you want to send your partner on her way.  If I could just offer up a suggestion.  There are several threads floating around about waning sex lives and ways to cope (whether it is actually painful intercourse or feeling shame about the new shape).  I think it might be worth trying to get support around this either through threads like those, or through counseling.  Your lover sounds like a wonderfully supportive keeper.  Hopefully the two of you can work through this so that you don't feel so...like "nothing."

This bc thing seems to have taken a real toll on your self-esteem.  I hope you find yourself to a more positive place...  Thinking of you and wishing you only the best.  Claire

CLC

Hugs to you Tina.  I am so sorry you find yourself feeling so raw.

Sherri...stop selfishly pushing your agenda on others.  I never imagined someone could be so utterly self-centered and nasty.  The women that I know that had recon and pushed me to have it never went to these lengths.  They at least backed off when I said I was decided.  Have some decency.

kmccraw423

((((((((TINA))))))))

JustJean ... your partner sees a compassionate loving woman; not two breasts.   She sees you.  Keep her, cherish her and a great big hug from me!

GointoCarolina

I see that this thread is very sensitive,so I hope I do not step on toes.My husband is perfectly fine with whatever I choose.....which is how it should be.Who matters in this is me.....sound selfish.....maybe.....but I am the one who had a life and body and health changing experience.I have been totally flat for one year......l had a proph mast last year.I HATE being flat.My breasts were a large(pun intended) part of me.I cannot summon up the desire to have sex,partly because my chest is so sensitive,uncomfortably so.I am trying to plan for recon(flap surgery) and my insurance is putting up road blocks every step of the way.I envy those of you who are OK with being flat,I truly wish I could wrap my head around it for myself,it would be so much easier.I wonder why you are so angry at the women posting who have had recon,they said it is up to you to decide what is right for you.If you are happy being flat,why does it bother you ? And as soon as my insurance approves it,I will get recon too....In the meantime, I check in here and sometimes get helpful hints.This forum is for women who are waiting for recon too,not just those who have totally decided against it.But I often feel since I am  not  anti recon,that I am not welcome and so I rarely post.

Momine

Panda, I am not anti recon. Right now I do not want it and do not feel the need, but I am open to the possibility that it could change in future. If it does, I will pursue recon.



People reacted to the characterization of flat ladies looking "sick and mutilated" and the wonder that women would turn down a "new set."

CLC

I am not "anti recon."  I am so glad it is available.  The women I know that have had it are very very happy to have had it.  That is not what is going on here.  The woman who posted here is pushing how wonderful recon is.  There are other places for that...not on this forum.  This forum is about how being flat is taken by our husbands/lovers and how it affects our sex lives and intimacy.  "Our" being those who have CHOSEN not to recon.  This is no debate about which is better.  This is simply us no recon women trying to sort out our feelings. 

cinnamonsmiles

It is not simply a matter of being "happy" we are flat. For some there is an adjustment period learning to live without breasts that can be very emotional. I do not think there is a treatment for cancer that anyone is happy about. If someone had rads or chemo, there are side effects to that.If someone has to take anti-estorgen drugs like Tamoxifen, there are side effects to that. For those that have lumpectomy surgery, there are side effects to that. Us talking about our feelings about living without reconstruction is no different than any other woman talking about other treatment  effects. Living without reconstruction is our treatment choice (if we had a choice). Some women may have to delay reconstruction and live without breasts in the meantime. And for the record, Living Without Reconstruction is not a matter of choice for all women. Some women simply for what ever reason, can not get reconstruction. I, for one, am not mad at all women who post who have had reconstruction. I have no problem with anyone getting reconstruction. However, I just think it was a poor  to write what she wrote. As CLC stated, it was not a thread about how much one loves their reconstructed breasts, it IS a thread about how not having breasts affects our lives. This is the last I will comment within this thread, so it can focus back to what it should be....a place for those of us who no longer have breasts can talk about the emotional aspect of it.

cinnamonsmiles

I am soo sorry Pandazankar that you, too, are experiencing emotional/sexual difficulties. I for one would not shy you away from talking about the difficulities you are having with being without breasts. It is not always an easy thing to live with.

I am also sorry that your insurance is giving you so much grief over reconstruction for you.

Please feel free to chime in and talk about how you feel about living breastless, but out of respect to the original poster (as we should anywhere on the bc.org) let's keep the topic at hand that is started.

barbe1958

Sheri, as soon as you said that you had small tits (like 26AAA or something?) I KNEW you would do whatever you could to get "real woman" breasts. You'd never had breasts in your life! Of course you'd want to finally get some. You make it sound like you are glad you got cancer so you could get a new rack. Of course, you'll never know what real breasts feel like...

My DH and I looked at tons of pictures of recon on the internet before I made my decision. All the pics we saw without FAIL, looked too much like Frankenstein breasts with stitching lines and different coloured areas (Alloderm?) and fake obviously fake nipples or even tatooed nips. Not for me, thanks. I had REAL breasts, like a REAL woman. Not a Barbie doll look for me, thanks!!

As for sexy...I LOVE the feel of soft silky clothing rubbing across my bare chest. I find it very erotic, almost a bit naughty!! I don't consider myself "deformed" at all, as Sheri is sure we feel. I had large 42D's since I was 13 with 38D's. I wore an underwire bra for 37 YEARS. I am THRILLED to no longer have to wear a bra and the single layer of silky fabric between me and the world makes me feel very, very sexy.

Otter, I do have to say that if I had only one breast taken off, I'd fight to get the other one off too. I didn't have to fight my surgeon as I'd already had 2 biopsies over the years on my right side, and 2 on my left side, with the final one finding the cancer. My "good" breast was full of ADHD and calcifications so it was a breast all setting up to turn cancerous.

crystalphm

I think many of us feel we have been blindsided by the insensitive posts here. This thread here is for women who have chose to not reconstruct, for what ever reasons. So when we post here, in this thread, we have to all remember to be sensitive to the needs of women who are living without reconstruction.

Sherri was so out of line it hurt me...Tina, I get what you are saying. Otter too, crabby, I get that. But let's not allow one person, or two, to distract us from some serious issues we need to be able to discuss, here in our safe place.

Baywatcher, I could have written your words. I chose to not have recon, yet i constantly feel less than the former me.

 There are days where i feel i still need time to mourn...or I need a compassionate girlfriend who understands I am hurt by all of this. I can't imagine getting therapy for this, why would I believe a man or woman who has not been through this? I myself would not have believed how damaging all of this can feel had I not gone through it myself.

 So...I am going to say something positive now. last week I was feeling pretty low, and I decided that part of the problem is I shower at 7 and watch tv in my jammies. So I watched breast free.org and saw a video about how to dress, and I bought "self esteem" jammies...and I have to say it helps a little bit.

Onward and forward, let's keep this a safe place for our feelings and just ignore the insensitive voices...

eulabt

I hope you don't mind that I chime in here. I did have reconstruction at the age of 41. I was small to begin with and I will say that I don't love my new boobs. I liked my old ones, but I was flat. The expanders were pure hell for me and my DH was ready to demand that they be taken out. I stayed small because I wanted to be me. I never wanted to look any different. My husband and I have a very good sex life, but I will say I really don't like him to touch the foobs, because they are fake and they remind me of what cancer took from me. I am so thankful to be alive today and happy to move on. My husband loves me for me. I do think it is sad to be happy that someone got better boobs out of having BC.

I really respect not having reconstrction as my mother did not. My father was so in love with her until the day that he died. She was 59 when she was diagnosed and that was a large part of her not wanting reconstrction.  

I guess what I am trying to say is that it isn't any better to have reconstruction verses not. We have all been through so much and if you are in a truly meaningful relationship, your partner will not care about your chest. 

beacon800

For you ladies who are suffering, questioning your attractiveness and suffering from the loss, I really want to hug each one of you.  I have studied recon a bit (I elected not to reconstruct) and realized that even recon does not necessarily confer confidence and self worth.  We have lost something and that is the fact.

Five days after my bilateral, when I was a weak, exhausted and weepy thing, reacting badly to some drugs I was taking and still had the drains in, I took my husband's hand and put it on my scar.  I looked at him and told him, "I want you to touch me here and see if you can still accept me."

To this moment I can vividly see the slight smile on his face as it softened, "oh darling", he whispered, he almost laughed, just a little.

In that moment I was born again.  I could see he did not mind, that he was ok with me and I decided right then that I was ok with me too.

I wish for each of you to find your self acceptance and overcome the loss.   (((hugs)))

Druanne

:') Your post made me cry beacon800 : I have had a lumpectomy, but have struggled with the thought of when it comes back.........because I know it will

CLC

beacon...what a tender moment.  Your husband sounds wonderful.

crystalphm

Beacon, Thank you so much for sharing your beautiful story. I too have a story much like this, so the problem lies in my own head, not accepting what others have told me. And I don't know how to get past this.

Everyone in my life is more than OK with my double mastectomy, but it stays in my head I am less than acceptable. Any thoughts?

alexandria58

Hi.  I just found this thread.  I had a BMX a year ago, no recon.  My DH, like a number of other partners, told me the night before my surgery that my breasts were nice, but he loved me, not them.  He also participated in the decision not to recon.  His comment - if you can't feel anything, why have the extra risk and pain.  I recall someone saying that the most important sex organ is the brain.  I feel beautiful, and my husband still finds me sexy.    

I don't wear foobs ever.  I love that I can now wear the tank tops without a bra. No one notices.  Really.  Even people who've known me for years just ask whether I've lost  weight.  (Yes, about 10 pounds of fat.)  I was at a BCO lunch on Sunday, and no one realized I hadn't done recon until I said so.

In terms of how a partner will react - that is so individual and requires some frank conversation.  Good luck with whatever comes, Otter.

Erica3681

Hi alexandria58,

I don't want to highjack this thread, but your post raised an issue that I have really struggled with. Although going flat is so comfortable and I'd like to feel comfortable doing it, yet when I look at myself in the mirror I just look SO flat and can't imagine that everyone wouldn't notice. But you and many other women who do so say that others really don't notice.

While I do go flat sometimes at home, my husband asked me the other day why I don't always go flat at home if it's the most comfortable state. I told him it's because on the off chance someone rings the bell, I don't want to be flat. Honest answer, but not one I'm proud of.

I would love to see more photos of how you and other women who go flat dress. Maybe it's because I like fitted tee shirts that it's so obvious. I still have hot flashes if my clothing is too warm (after eight years!), so if I wear a sweater or jacket over a tee chances are I'll have to remove it at some point.

As to going flat in public, my DH says he doesn't care, yet he loves it when I wear my largest foobs, so I wonder...

 

lisa-e

Erica, I don't usually wear foobs, just tee shirts or button down shirts.  If any one pays attention it is obvious I don't have breasts - I just think most people don't pay that much attention to my body as  I am middle aged.  

I think men are wired visually.  My husband was never interested in breasts.  He was always attracted to women with nice legs and butts.  When we were younger, he  liked it if I wore shorts.  

brcapooh

Sheri, I'm glad to hear the other side and thank you for sharing your views. I had BMX no reconstruction and I do think about recon - BUT I know I will never go through it and I know that my decision was the best for me. I have heard a lot of horror stories about recon gone wrong, and implants are not forever (hence there will potentially be more surgeries in the future). Having undergone 4 surgeries in 4 months to remove and stage my cancer, I have had it with surgeries (one of the reasons why I didn't want recon). Also, having implants also means regular MRI to make sure there are no leaks, and it could obstruct findings IF the cancer ever comes back. Those are reasons for me choosing no recon. I just want it simple and over with.

Otter, my husband has been very supportive of my BMX no recon. He says if it were him (if he were in my position), he would not go for recon either.  I'm sure you will realize that after years of marriage, a husband really loves you for who you are. Although it sucks to lose your breasts, it is more a survival decision. My husband would rather have me alive and live longer with him, than to lose me and take a chance. He has seen me flat and he is not turned off. Although my BMX was for prophylactic reason, the pathology found DCIS and an additional tumor.

I wear foam forms with a mastectomy camisole to bed, as it is more comfortable (more padding) for me as I sleep on my side or front. The good part about BMX is that you can wear any size forms you want!  Good luck with your decision.

barbe1958

Erica, I worked side by side with a woman and after six months casually mentioned my mastectomies, expecting her to say "Oh, that's why...". Instead, her jaw literally hit her desk and she went beet red and said she was so sorry, she had never noticed!!! I wear almost the same clothes as before except for ones that have extra space and darts for breasts. Those kind just leave empty fabric hanging on my chest. I wear a lot of tanks with cropped sweaters and they are just cute!

There is one example of a cowl necked top and large necklace to draw your eye up. You wouldn't be able to notice I had no breasts unless I stood side-ways and held my arms back. This is a good example of the "busy" fabrics I talk about all the time. They are distracting to the eye.

Here is another one wear I took off the sweater part as I was warm. You can see I still get a kind of "cleavage look as the scar doesn't join in the middle of my chest. This was the first time I changed my new grandson!!!

Another 'busy' fabric and necklace.

Here is a ready made layered look. The top came this way!!

I can feel very normal and even pretty in these tops. I do wear plain ones as well, but usually with some detail to draw the eye up; rouching, stitching, ruffles, etc.

otter

Wonderful pics, Barbe.  Your attitude and appearance are inspiring!  Thanks!

otter

[I am typing this on the new-and-improved BCO Boards screen.  It looks like microprint to me, compared to the print already on this thread.  We'll see how this turns out....]

alexandria58

Erica,  I wear tank tops and sleeveless shirts now, much more than I did before - because I was never comfortable without a bra (fomerly betewen a c and a D).  Going braless has been such a pleasure.  Even so, with only a tank top, no layering, no one notices.  Remember, there are a lot of naturally small breasted women.  Last summer at the beach, my DH pointed out all the flat chested women on the beach, in the water, on the boardwalk  because right after the surgery, I was still a little self conscious.  not anymore.  

barbe1958

I've said this before on another site, but honestly, when I see big breasted women now, I think "MOOOOOOO". I used to be big breasted and always felt fat and sloppy. Clothes gaped and hung and it was tough to look trim.