Chemo and Breast Cancer

Ang7

Thank you impositive for your response.

It just seems to me that some people post their information in such a way that they are trying to start an argument. (not referring to you either...)

I felt this thread was created to bash chemo and so I reacted.

It is a shame that some feel a need to bash any treatment. 

Anonymous

Nancy, thanks for being so open and honest. I am really sorry you are having a rough time. Do you have an ND? If not, maybe you should look into getting one. 

Hugs

Sharon

Hindsfeet

 motheroffoursons  interesting about liver dysfunction link to cancer. It's something as of late that I've been thinking about. I wouldn't be surprised if my liver is part of the problem.

With breast cancer, the cause is seen as a chronic pattern of qi or life force stagnation, rooted in liver dysfunction. This unrelieved pattern of stagnation becomes an invisible contusion in the being, obstructing the free flow of energy, blood and lymph fluids through the specialized and sensitive breast tissue. The problem becomes potentially life threatening when toxins find their way into that area of stagnation

As it's been said, cancer is complex. Not all cancers are the same. What might work for one person, might not work for someone else. Causes may differ. We can't offer the cookie cutter approach to anyone. In the end, we need to educate ourselves as to all options and make the decision that best fits us personally. Most people checking alternative are here because they want something more than "standard medicine".

btw...the natural science website... Please explain why it's bogus. Is it all bogus? Part bogus? What's in there that's not documented? What is said that upsets you so? I've only been on there once. I saw nothing that alarmed me. Perhaps I missed it?

Hindsfeet

Nancy, I feel for you. It's wrong that your oncologist didn't throughly explain the possible side effects of chemo. I don't think chemo should be pushed for women dx with early stage cancer. . There is always the possiblity that even without chemo, you might not have a recurrence or that the cancer cells did not spread beyond the local location. It might all had been removed with a mx or other milder cancer treatments or alternative. It just seems brutal to me for early cancers.

motheroffoursons

I said nothing about the natural news site.  I said some alternative treatments are bogus.  I surely hope that you do not believe everything just because it has the word alternative as an adjective describing a treatment..

Anonymous

I surely hope you do not believe everything just because it has the word "science" as an adjective describing a treatment. The FDA will approve just about anything.   

Hindsfeet

motheroffoursons .... sorry, the comment of the natural news was not referring to anything you said. It related to comments made earlier. I agreed with you in regard to the liver toxicity and stagnation.  

motheroffoursons

Princess,  there are bogus scientific experiments that establish nothing.  There are bogus alternative theories that establish nothing.  We need to use our critical thinking skills, analyze the studies that have been done correctly, throw out the garbage, and then choose our treatments.  Neither camp has a monopoly on truth.

Just as a side note.  the FDA does not approve everything.  A  lot of medicines, like the one I was given for arthritis, are not approved in the USA.  I am living out of the country part of the year.

Anonymous

Hi Nancy, sorry to read about your trouble with lingering neuropathy. I wanted to mention that my mother in law had terrible neuropathy in both her hands and feet, although her feet troubled her most. She said her toes were completely numb and she had a constant unpleasant tingling in her feet. Her GP referred her to an acupuncturist and after a couple of months of treatment, she felt a drastic improvement although not a complete return to normalcy. It also helped her with a hip problem which she was worried was bone mets, but turned out to be a chronic condition in the hip joint. I think acupuncture may very well bring you some relief as it did my MIL. (Her name was Nancy too!) Good luck and keep us posted.

Anonymous

Nancy, I think you need to look outside that center too.  If I were you, I'd find a naturopathic oncologist that offers advanced alternative therapies to their patients.  

fufu

My husband is a cancer survivor, 16 years now. Without the chemo i don't think he would have been around to see our children grow up. Yes the chemo was not a walk in the park, but he recovered and he is alive. As for the alternative treatments, i must say they scare me. One of my loved one's recently diagnosed with breast cancer stage III, grade III has decided to choose a holistic lifestyle over any type of medical treatment. I am sooooo scared for her. I would honestly understand using holistic as complementary but this is not the case. I could also understand her fear of chemotherapy but i think refusing surgery, and chemotherapy, and radiation and going holistic is a huge risk. I wish she would at least have a masectomy and get the evil out.

Titan

Leia..first of all..I like your posts..I like what you have to say...really I do!

But..here's that but....seriously..please don't say that chemo kills...many of us on this board have had chemo and didn't die from it....

I know that this is your opinion and this is a board where you can state your opinion but please chemo doesn't kill everyone..or most of everyone...

Anonymous

Fufu, I understand that you believe that chemotherapy is effective, and it is against some cancers, breast cancer doesn't happen to be one of them.  Yes, chemotherapy can shrink the size of tumors for a period of time, which can lead to less extensive surgery, or relief of symptoms for someone whose cancer has spread, but it is not curative in breast cancer the way it can be for leukemia and some other cancers.

You say that your loved one is refusing all conventional treatment, so how could she possibly have a diagnosis with stage and grade if she is refusing surgery?  Stage may be guessed at (not always accurately) from scans and testing, but only pathology after surgery will provide grade.  Maybe she had surgery (lumpectomy) and is refusing more extensive surgery? 

You will not be able to browbeat her into doing conventional treatments, so the best thing you can do to help her health is to reduce her stress level by not pressuring her into the treatment course that you think is best, and running interference when other family members start on her. 

digger

Fufu,

I understand you're trying to present a balanced view about chemo, but unfortunately, you're barking up a wrong tree on this particular thread.  Case in point, when you have an opinion, presented as statement, such as the one PatMom just presented, in which she states that chemo is always ineffective with breast cancer.  When you've got people believing such blanket statements, such as chemo is never effective against any and all cases of breast cancer, you're never going to get through to them, nor do they want you to.  It's their belief that chemo always equals poison, and they're not budging from that opinion stated as fact for them.  Your post will also likely be deleted, as mine always are, as they then get their buddies to all report you for saying something they don't believe.  You tried, but an alternate view just doesn't fly here. They're too vested in believing all chemo equals poison.

The complementary forum is much better if you happen to have a different view and can think outside of the box. There, you can actually have an informed discussion of complementary and alternative therapies, and there's a lot more give and take among posters.  Everyone is much more accepting, and respectful, of different views.

By the way, it's been pointed out time and time again, while the original poster has good information to share, she also is an avid smoker who feels that is healthy too and has no effect whatsoever on her health.  So there you go.  Chemo equals poison but smoking is good for you. 

Anonymous

Fufu, did your relative have a lumpectomy? And is she being guided by integrative/alternative medicine doctor?

Anonymous

digger, if you are going to publicly accuse me of something, please get your facts right.  I did NOT say that chemo is always ineffective.  I gave specific examples of situations in which it might be useful.  I said that it is not curative for breast cancer. 

If you know of a situation in which it has CURED someone of stage IV breast cancer, please share that information, otherwise, I stand by my statements as fact not opinion. 

crazy4carrots

PatMom, you wrote:  Fufu, I understand that you believe that chemotherapy is effective, and it is against some cancers, breast cancer doesn't happen to be one of them.

The opposite of effective is, I believe, ineffective. You stated your opinion that chemo is ineffective for breast cancer.  Of course, this means that all of us who have gone through chemo tx suffered for nothing because, in your opinion, chemo is ineffective for breast cancer.

As for cancers such as leukemia:  Chemotherapy can bring a patient into "remission", but there is always the chance that the "conditions" which caused the cancer will reassert themselves.  So, I guess chemo for leukemia is not curative, either.  But keeping cancer at bay is really what chemo is all about.  If having chemo helps keep me from recurrence or mets, for however many years, then perhaps it was worth losing my hair after all.  Of course, there are no guarantees. 

Anonymous

I stand by what I wrote.

If you need to twist my words to make your point, it speaks volumes about you and the point you are trying to make.

rosemary-b

I did not know chemo could cure leukemia. I thought it just put it into remission. That is tremendous.

bluedahlia

Where have I been?  There's a cure for cancer?

thats-life-

im not sure a debating thread belongs in the Alt forum. I come to the alt forum for inspiration and hope and detailed information on options aside from the standard treatment options available...i get a knot in my stomach when i see this title in the Alt thread now, knowing there are angry posters watching and waiting for a slip up in wording if we actually state an opinion, if we forget for a moment to be carefully politically correct when we discuss standard/Alt treatments. Microfocusing and micro opinions such as 'well, im still alive'....dont really add to the discussion, The information is out there if you want to look at chemo related deaths..we all know we are buying time with chemo, for some it gives you less time, not more..to take that gamble, is a personal choice...depends on if you're a gambler...chemo with BC is only that. Recurring or not is based on many more factors than if you had chemo, and here we see many women recurring even when they were aggressive up front.

Fufu: i saw your other thread, where you said that your mother and sister died from their chemo treatment within a week of each other 4 yrs ago. That is very very sad, and im sorry you and your cousin had to go through that. Yes, it may have influenced your cousin's decisions...we can only love and respect our loved one's choices..and offer support..(maybe help her buy one of those expensive juicers that i cant afford...at the moment im eating fruit mush lol).she may decide to be more aggressive and choose standard treatment later on...point is, if we are happy and hopeful with our choices...whether standard or Alternative, we want to believe it is helping us...as those on chemo hold onto this belief while going through hell sometimes....so others want to believe their treatment will work. When it doesnt work, as happens with chemo, and with Alt treatments too...then we re assess...and move forward...because we are a brave bunch

thats-life-

i just re read my post, and its a bit jumbled...i blame the brain MRI..and the brainfry waiting for results, but hopefully you get my point

thats-life-

p.s.: we can see what happens when someone just mentions chemo may not be effective... I could provide data for you all. i could provide science based records of the realities of chemotherapy for many many thousands of women and men. But i dont do that. I dont want to burst anyone's bubble. I dont want anyone to feel the shock of truth i have had to feel by reading the truth behind the numbers and the truth behind the success rates............................................ do us the honour of the same degree of respect for choices. I have to live with, and make decisions based on, a very harsh reality...a toxic demise..or a natural one. Its very easy to ridicule people, and promote a drug you did well on...please respect those who may decide to choose a different path.

digger

So where do, say, coffee enemas come in?  Are those natural or toxic? 

bluedahlia

Digger, some people like to drink coffee.  Doing anything else with it is ewwwwwwww!

Ang7

that's life said "please respect those who may decide to choose a different path."

Everyone should follow this - even those that bust on chemo.

Hindsfeet

Thank you thatslife for perspective.

If you are here to make fun of those who do alternative treatments such as coffee enemas (although, I've never tried a coffee enema or do I drink coffee) are in the wrong forum. If you haven't noticed the alternative forum is given to bco women for support, and to freely talk about alternative medicine or alternative treatments without harassment or naysayers. All I know about the coffee enema's is that it's harmless, and works for some people. If something is harmless and is working for someone then leave it be. 

There are those who come to the alternative forum  to find fault to discredit those who choose alternative treatment. Why else would the coffee enema be brought up now?

thats-life-

wow, the lack of compassion outside of your friendship thread is astounding. Digs at a woman who is discussing her stage IV decisions?...wow...you chose an appropriate nic name digger.

bluedahlia, i noticed your discussion with your friends on your hidden thread, i couldnt help but notice how wonderfully supportive you all were re each of your choices, a number of which were to decline chemo.and i just want to say...I Respect your choices too!!!

Bluedahlia wrote: "I didn't go the chemo route because my onc thought it might make my PD worse.  My ILC was 1.5 cm, grade 2 which put it on the border.  I discussed it with my family and we all agreed that I should forego it.  My DD's best friend's mother is in breast cancer research and told me at that time that chemo wouldn't do much for me as ILC is very slow growing and chemo goes after the faster growing cancers"

thats-life-

Sooooo...you thought chemo would be more harmful to you than beneficial...is that correct?

and did anyone harass you, or ridicule you...for that decision?

bluedahlia

I have PD, my dear girl.  I also said if cancer doesn't get me PD will.  I'm in late stages and was almost bedridden.  I went with the recommendation of my onco who saved my dad's life WITH chemo and who I trust completely.  He never did push it because in case you didn't know PD is a result of dead cells in the brain that produce dopamine which control movement.  I don't care one way or another for anyone to support my decisions.  At the same time I don't go around telling anyone chemo is deadly, like some I know.

I made my decision and have to live with the outcome whatever it might be.  Discussing alternative methods is one thing but telling people not to do chemo based on junk science is IMO unconscionable.