Alternative Treatment

Anonymous

Kaara, knowing what it did to me, I can't even imagine, your poor aunt 

Crescent5

Maud, oncotype dx can be done for node + Double chck with your dr.

dunesleeper

I will ask the oncologist about oncotype testing. I was glad to read about it here. I have pretty much decided to treat this cancer with alternative methods and leave out chemo and hormone drugs. It is what feels right to me. The only thing that worries me about this course of action is that I have depression, have had it since the early 80's, and I worry that I will not do the exercises, cook the food, and make time for spiritual practices -- all of which are important for the success of the therapies. They are really all about taking personal responsibility. Oh well. Maybe they can help with the depression too.

Sorry, having a very rough day today. Not feeling well at all.

I like this thread and think that I am getting a lot of good information from watching the discussion. When I learn something, I will add it.

Anonymous

Dunesleeper, if it can make you feel better, the drugs are very likely to make your depression worse.  Countless sisters take antidepressants because of Tamox or AIs.  I tried them, actually Effexor, apparently is the only one apart from Celexa, which can be combined with tamox. Not for me - I'm doing very well without them, they made everything much much worse.

It's ok for you to feel under the weather, nobody understands like another sister what it's like to live with such an axe over our heads, it's ok big hugs to you

Looking at your dx, they took out a whole lot of nodes, do you know why ?  usually, they do the sentinel and a few more

PS, some of the things you read here may make you depressed, it does it to me  

Anonymous

Thanks Crescent, I will ask him when I see him the week after next, it's a bit late now, but anything I can confront him with, I will. I personally believe that I was overtreated and like Kaara said: it doesn't make sense that I was told to take the same Tamox dosaget as a stage IV sister, no sense at all

dogsandjogs

I don't drink, but my dad who had a glass or two of wine every day of his life lived to be 93. His doctor told him that wine in moderation is very good for your heart. There is something in grapes that is good for it apparently.

Kadia

I second (or third, I guess!) the vitamin D supplementation. For some of us, it is very hard to keep our D levels normal, let alone optimal. I have had prescribed "mega-doses" of Vit D (15000 IUs, IIRC), and still come up short. I take 2500 IU daily.

Anonymous

There's no point taking megadoses of Vit D (actually can be toxic) if you don't absorb vit D.  Many co-factors are involved in its optimal absorption.

Anonymous

Hi all - read from mid-march to hear without one comment.

So here I am, been reading this thread since joining, but did not have it marked as a favorite.

Abigail - I so respect your beliefs and your firm stance on what you are choosing right now.  With your age at 70, you do need a different perspective than someone much younger, and your belief system, for whatever reason you have it, give you the need for the answers that you are seeking.  For reference, I am  55 tomorrow, and have similar beliefs as yours.

So you seem to be the one to save this month : ) and welcome..... save from yourself, or from the ones who would lead you astray.  And it could happen, you need to be careful, even with alternative choices.   Find responsible people that you can trust to bounce the considerations off of. 

You have not had a biopsy.  I didn't either, I was concerned about the seeding that medical drs and oncs have at last admitted is a concern for them too.  

I finally conceeded to surgery and am very disappointed with the results.  The bs left a positive margin which he did not admit to, called it close for 6 weeks.  The last thing I wanted was to poke the bear, the tumor, and spread it with further seeding, but it happened by leaving a margin anyway.  

That said, I am glad I had surgery because the cancer was also in my lymph nodes, the sentinel node biopsy which is standard procedure showed it there and the one node was completely engulfed, hopefully it took the hit for all in the axilla area.  I have opted out of chemo (recommended) a mx (recommended) and found that rads were not for me becasue the nipple was too closely involved for me to stand rads. I have less of my breast, and have a good quality of life and feel quite healthy on most days, except afte my heavy alternative treatment days when the die off of bacterial and/or cancer cells gets me down for 2 - 3 days.  Alternatives is not painless, not for me anyway, it hurts too, but I prefer this choice.  I do not say never to chemo but have already  made decisions on what way it will be handled.  Just wish I had known before what I know now about the surgery choices I had, ie, freezing, laser, MRI first for a better map, and more.

After surgery, if one has the node under arm surgery, one could be affected and not be able to type or write or paint.  A real concern for you, as you admit that your art is what you want to protect for your quality of life.  So be aware of lymphodema, study what to do, and consider the options well.

You are the one who first mentioned freezing it.  IF I had known that the cryoablation was even being done in the US, as it is in Europe where I wanted to go!!!!  I would have chosen that as soon as I found the mass. Idid not read far enough to know what it really waas or where to find it, just knew the freezing sounded like my kind of plan....... andI found the truth after I met my integrative md, long after I panicked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryoablation  And I would now if I needed it.    

 http://www.cryoablationdoctor.org/

So, my comment is this.... If you choose not to have surgery, then you need to opt for anything and everything that you can do to heal from the cancer.  Period.  No messing around. Bringing up a few simple reconsiderations of what has been discussed...... If the mushrooms and the DIM work for ER+ cancer, then why not both?  No harm, you are already eating them.  For immune system, find the best immune booster you CAN TRUST and use it for a few months.  For liver, use the best liver support but I would not use milk thistle if you do not know the type of cancer, it could fuel the fire.  You understand this, for in your comment about the fennel - which you taught me that one - it is estrogenic too, and a mistake. 

You mentioned cadmium, in your paint medium.  Have you changed?  Do you understand the EDTA therapy for heavy metal can help, either with good capsules or suppositories or an IV.  The IV at my integrative md's is $25, so not bad there, but some charge $120 each time.  The suppositories are the only ones that help the heavy metals by-pass the liver though.   eeeee I tried those and couldn't poo right for a week, so now I will have the IV and use extra liver support.

I enjoy the IVs, have had Vit C and UBV so far.  I will have hydrogen peroxide next week. 

Must ask, have you noticed the mass has grown swiftly since you first realized it changed from a cyst?  Or do you think it is still a cyst and growing?  You opinion?  You do know, you really need a doctor you can trust, one that believes like you do, and will help you know what it is in a way that you believe.  There are urine tests you can send out of the US to find out if there is cancer - HCG Urine Cancer test, Navarro Clinic.  There are expensive full blood work that can tell you, done at labs in US and with no dr prescription.

Bill Henderson is mentioned.   I strongly suggest his books, a wealth of info, have followed his info for years, but just recently found the one book I had wanted and thought I had not ordered on my shelf, untouched, do not know how.  For immune in that book, he introduces Beta 1, 3-D Glucan.  He also talks about the VIBE machine.  Yes, he does discuss the Budwig protocol, but my impression is that is is definitely proven to buy time for cancer people who need time, not that it is the end all cure for cancer except for some, imho, from what I read across the board.... and it has too be followed exactly.  i think that what the Budwig protocol does is hopefully stop the body's reaction to whatever is aggravating the cancer growth, it takes everything away that could be a problem and uses colostrum pure and raw along with healing oils that arre caarriedby  the PERFECT dairy product, not just any dairy product, plus gentle whole foods and liver support and cleansing up the wazoo literally in order to buy time,  and one can choose to do this in early stage or late stage, but the protocol is not for those who find the cancer within is too far and they are in pain, books with many many stories tell that tale, Dr. Budwig was not one to say never do surgery, sometimes she had people deal with it then do what was next, and no one was the same, as we are not here and now. Some were 'cured' and some were not, those who knew they were not going to be 'cured' by the Budwig protocol perhaps needed to go on to the next or couple it with more choices, conventional or alternative.  I am not a black or white person.

Have been using a multitude of alternatives for months and will continue for years to come, have learned a lot.  That is why I am here, to learn and share.  And sometimes I play some word games.  

Good luck to you in your search.  I will pm you so you know this post is here for you.

Kaara

The last thing I would take to improve my hot flashes is an anti depressant, unless of course I was severely depressed.  My MO suggested that if mine didn't go away and I flatly refused.  I've been getting a little down, but I think it's from the tiredness which I'm not used to.  I could lie down almost anytime, anywhere, and take a nap:(  Whenever I sit and try to read or watch TV I get sleepy, then of course when it's time for bed I'm wide awake.  Welcome to my new normal.

Anonymous

Essa, great post, I did not know about cryoablation being done for cancer; checked your link and the guy nearest me doesn't do breast cancer, he does liver and others, but not breast, I wonder why.  

You know, I don't believe there is one person in the room that wouldn't do something different if we could go back. I say 'que sera sera', it's too late now, but we will know better in the future 

Kaara, I'll try to find it, but read something about this disease and its best treatment is rest, rest and rest again.  Really, you and I both cannot do as much as we used to, no point pushing and trying hon 

Kaara

Maud:  You're absolutely right...now if only my boyfriend hadn't set us up for 18 holes of golf in 86 degree weather tomorrow:(  He's got clients coming up from Miami that we must entertain.  They will certainly be entertained watching my game.  I told him I may only be able to do 9 holes then I'll just ride the rest of the way.  I'm not going to push myself to the point of exhaustion, and my hot flashes do not respond well in the heat.  He doesn't seem to get it.

abigail48

as for sorting it all out, make your own if you can.  I make olive leaf decoction once a weel & take a few T every day.  & I PLAN to juce some of that no good vinca & perhaps use it topically, see what hapens.  I also have a literal ton of japanese knotweeed in my garden, I ate new shoots most of last summer, this summer I think I'll juice some of it & perhaps eat a bit.  It has more resveitrol than dark grapes.

dogsandjogs

There is a theory that taking tranquilizers can cause cancer because they depress your immune system.  Has anyone else heard that? 

abigail48

no doubt.  all those chemicals are bad.  cause suicidal ideation too

Kadia

Dogsandjogs, what sort of tranquilizer are you referring to? There are many risks--and many uses--for different sorts of tranquilizers.



there is at least one meta analysis showing a correlation between hypnotics and benzodiazepines and cancers, but none that show any causation, AFAIK. The risks of the condition being treated with tranquilizers need to be taken into account, as well.



Most hypnotics and benzodiazepines should only be used short term and at the lowest possible dose. Since they can be habit forming and the user can develop tolerance, they need to be taken cautiously.

abigail48

essa:  caught the post again & read it more carefully, am off to the studio for several days now & running late.  don't know what dim is??, I've been wondering though how many or us have taken pills for birthcontrol or ert, & was well have smoked cannabis.

it seems to have stayed the dsame size for many many years, since it grew back after the biker mushed them with his hands one day.  it grew back at some piont & then some time ago grew hard & with the spots on it.  I was so busy I didn't have time to notice a lot I should have.

didn't know they were using cryonics.  what kind of results have they had.  the icecubes in a ziplock certainly works well for discomfort, as does exercise.  ......more later........no computer at the studio.....

Anonymous

The results for cryoablation in Europe are so positive that it is not considered experimental.  This is for each one to study, if interested for self, I don't know much except that is the one treatment my integrative md wanted me to do but I already had the surgery when I met him. 

This morning I learned a lot about progesterone and bc, but still remain undecided to use my tubes now.  I wwill need to go to an encron it seems in order to get the hormone tests I need... the GP said their cllinic checked before sending off the blood for tests and ins will not pay for mine, so perhaps w a specialist the ins will pay.

Today I turned 55.  Today Hubby is coming home from days early and we will make dinner and brownies w walnuts for our family who will visit, letting granddaughter frost the brownies and place purple and white violets on them and candles too, just 5 though.  Today I am going to write a blog for my business and enjoy that since being a storyteller is whatI love most.  It will be my first one since way before I found the mass, I was too sick to think or remember anything let alone feel or laugh or stay awake.  

Today I will also begin the thread in a forum, havenot decided which one with all the symptoms I had for the bc and am hoping  everyone who can share will too, with a thread of only symptoms it could savelives, done by those who have been there and really know how it felt and that in the end it WAS too bc.  I will post the link back here when I am done.

Kaara

Essa:  Happy Birthday!  Hope you have a wonderful day.  You have been a valuable contributor to this thread and I always look forward to reading what you write.

Prayers and blessings to you and you family on your special day! 

Anonymous

Thank you Kaara - and I of you.  Lovely here today.  Also going to show daughter the new home we hope to purchase this month.  Hope!

TO ALL - I just started a new topic, noncontroversial but helpful, I hope for that too.

Please share and pass it forward so we can get a good long list to help others.

Breast Cancer Symptoms - a comprehensive list by those w bc

http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/83/topic/784673?page=1#post_2929808

Thanks!

Essa Diane but you can call me whatever....

dogsandjogs

Kadia: About the tranquilizer - I'm trying to remember - it has been 30 years ago. I think it was called Deprol and was a combo of a tranquilizer and a mood elevator.

Anonymous

Nitromethane is used in specialized fuels, explosives, and in the synthesis of pharmaceuticals and agricultural chemicals. It is listed as "reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen" based on evidence that it causes cancer in experimental animals.

"For example, the popular heartburn medicine omeprazole (Prilosec) causes abnormal cell growth and stomach tumors (carcinoids) in rats. No one seems to know whether this constitutes a problem for people.

Spironolactone (Aldactazide, Aldactone) is a blood pressure medicine that is sometimes prescribed for hormonal imbalances and facial hair growth in women. It causes tumors in rats.

Parents of children with eczema have been worried by reports that the prescription topical skin treatments, Elidel cream and Protopic ointment, are associated with lymphoma and skin cancer. The FDA has warned against using these drugs in children under two years of age. It also states that, "The long term safety of Elidel and Protopic are unknown." Such cautions are not reassuring; they leave patients and physicians in a quandary.

The same is true for the rheumatoid arthritis injections Cimzia, Enbrel, Humira and Remicade. These very expensive bio-tech drugs have revolutionized the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis and Crohn's disease. Last summer the FDA announced that it was investigating an association between these medications and the development of lymphoma or other cancers.

Another hugely controversial cancer connection has to do with cholesterol-lowering drugs. An article in the Journal of the American Medical Association (Jan. 3, 1996) warned over a decade ago that, "All members of the two most popular classes of lipid-lowering drugs (the fibrates and the statins) cause cancer in rodents, in some cases at levels of animal exposure close to those prescribed to humans."

Recent research in the New England Journal of Medicine (Sept. 25, 2008) has cast a spotlight on Vytorin (ezetimibe and simvastatin), a different kind of cholesterol drug. Investigators noted a higher incidence of cancer in subjects taking this medicine, although a separate analysis concluded there was no risk. An editorial in the Journal noted that these findings leave both doctors and patients uncertain about the safety of this medicine.

ARBs, a class of hypertension pharmacotherapeutics as a last resort, were found to be significantly linked to development of lung cancer. Another recent study suggests that non-steroidal anti inflammatory drugs (NSAID) may lead to breast cancer. 

That could also be said of dozens of other drugs that cause cancer in animals. The FDA ought to require studies that would clarify the risk, rather than asking Americans simply to ignore warnings of cancer. 

http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2008/10/20/do-prescription-1/ 

Kadia

Dogsandjogs, I'm not familiar with that medication. I wonder if it's commonly used any more? The literature I found on it is all from the 1960s. There are lots of heavy duty tranqs from that era that are either no longer used or used only very rarely. The study I was thinking of was about current day sleeping meds that are hypnotics and benzodiazepines.

dunesleeper

Maud, as to why they took so many nodes: The best I can understand so far is that they believed they were cancerous. They were icky and stuck together. A mess. She even said they were hard. I really thought I was toast. Then the results came back that only one was positive for cancer. That was pretty wow!

dunesleeper

I take xanax mostly to help me sleep. To make the Rx last through the month I will take seroquel (a major tranquilizer) or an OTC sleep aid. I absolutely will not sleep without help. It's been like that for about 10 years. I'm definitely going to have to deal with that.

I have a high cortisol level in the morning. My ND says this could mean I have sleep apneia. High cortisol levels are linked to cancer. I so don't want a CPAP machine but until I lose weight I may have to do it.

I have hypothyroid. My ND says that hypothyroid is a risk factor for cancer. I'm not sure if it is just breast cancer or other cancers too.

It is really amazing to learn from natural doctors these important pieces of information that are totally ignored by mainstream medicine.

I see the ND who prescribes my supplements on Wednesday. I'll share whatever interesting tidbits I learn.

Sunday I meet the herbalist. Sure hope he knows about herbs and oncology. But if not, I'll find another.

Kaara

I had a thyroid problem that went undiagnosed for years and then even after I was put on Synthroid, I still continued to have problems that the doctors seemed to think was all in my mind.  When I visited my bioidentical hormone doctor in late 2010, he tested me and discovered that my thyroid was not being stimulated to perform even with the synthroid, so he ordered cytomel and bingo, everything fell into place.  Not soon enough to prevent me from getting bc though.  I think it was too far along by that point.  Now I just have to keep it from recurring.

Anonymous

I believe now that bc, thyroid and Vit D3 are linked.  Also Alzheimer's to this.  Mayo has a book that links the protein plaque in brain to Alz's and devotes a decent section of book to thyroid which is proven to not process foods properly, namely Amyloid precursor proteins (APP). The glossary and index do not include any reference to thyroid, cancer, Vit D3.... have to read thoroughly to see the links, with a questioning mind.  Book title: Mayo Clinic on Alzheimer's Disease - Petersen, Ed in Chief.

Kaara

Went to my BS today for a regular check up.  He knew I didn't do the radiation and said that he went to a BC Symposium in Miami last week and they were talking about the studies that women 70+ have the same outcomes without radiation as with, yet doctors are still recommending rads.  They suggested that women with hormone positive bc be given the option of either rads or hormone therapy, but do not need both.  My BS said if given the choice, he preferred the hormonal treatment over rads because it protects both breasts as well as prevents spread to other parts of the body where rads only protect the diseased breast from recurrence.

I also asked him why a woman with early stage bc would take the same dose of tamoxifen as someone with advanced bc.  He really couldn't answer that question, and launched into an explanation of how tamoxifen worked, which I knew, but still listened politely.  He is a genuinely caring person and a terrific breast surgeon.  The 45 minute drive to get to his office is well worth it. 

Anonymous

Kaara, I'm sure you're very happy with your decision to forego rads

I'm seeing my onc next week and will ask him about Tamox and dosage.

How did thermography go last week ? Was it a whole body one or breasts?

Kaara

Maud:  Thermography was from collar area down to just below breasts.  Yes, it did reconfirm my decision on the rads.  I never told either the BS or the MO that I was only taking the 1/2 dose of the tamox.  It would be pointless because they wouldn't agree with my decision.  Interesting though that the BS couldn't give me a satisfactory answer on why it's "one dose fits all".  I would be interested to hear what your MO has to say about it.