Alternative Treatment

luv_gardening

Abigail, here's a link to the BCO page explaining different types of chemotherapy.  It's much easier if you get a diagnosis first and find out if you have cancer and what type of chemotherapy they would give you if any.

http://www.breastcancer.org/treatment/chemotherapy/medicines.jsp 

And here's the page for Tamoxifen

http://www.breastcancer.org/treatment/hormonal/serms/tamoxifen.jsp 

luv_gardening

Painterly, from the BCO page on chemotherapy it says,

If you've had chemotherapy before and the cancer came back or didn't respond, your doctor will likely recommend a different combination of medicines.

and

In general, most chemotherapy medicines can be used until side effects become a problem or the medicine stops being effective.

In other words, the cancer builds up a resistance to each type of chemo once you've had one course so they generally only use it for one course. So you would have a bigger arsenal to use if you haven't used any before and need it in the future.  Also consider that it's better to get it all the first time (if needed and if you can), to stop future mets when it will be incurable. So you need as much information as possible and time to make the decision, and don't let those oncs scare you.  It's your life and it's unethical of them to use scare tactics.

http://www.breastcancer.org/treatment/chemotherapy/who_gets_it.jsp 

I haven't found the other link and have to get ready for tomorrow.  I'll be off here for a day or two now.

painterly

Thanks very much Joy.

Shouldn't you be in bed....it must be in the middle of the night in oz?

Kaara

Joy:  Thanks for the info on Australia travel.  It's definitely on our bucket list!  Expensive bc treatments this year moved it down the page:(

painterly

Kaara:  Great place Australia....I have lived in 4 countries and spent my childhood growing up along Sydney's beaches....and my fondest memories are from the time I lived in Sydney!

abigail48

yes, joy, that link was vv helpful  as the herbalists say all remedies are near where the trouble is endemic.  we have vinkas (periwinkle) growing wild everywhere here.  there was was even a dplace in england to buy wildcrafted vinca cream, but no longer availiables.  cheap too, 8 bucks.  but I can wildcraft it for myself, I've even used it before for toothache

luv_gardening

It's 3am so I'll say goodnight (or good day) to all.

Kadia

Abigail, lots of posts come up for Chillipadi if you do a member name search. Here is one thread that may be of interest: http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/79/topic/769076?page=2#post_2403246

SelenaWolf

This is an interesting thread.  I followed conventional treatment with no regrets or fears.  Everything was explained clearly and openly, and I understood the risks going in.  For me - personally - the benefits of conventional treatment far outweighed the risks... but that is just me. 

However, now that conventional treatment is over, I am interested in what I can do naturally to keep as healthy as possible and I've made some changes; I've stopped drinking for one.  Not that I was a heavy drinker, but I did like a glass of wine with dinner.  I've never eaten a lot of red meat, so that's been easy to drop.  I've always been very, very active so that's not an issue. 

The result?  For the first time IN YEARS I haven't been on an anti-depressent.  Weird, huh, given that I've probably just gone through the most stressful situation in my whole life?  I dropped 15 pounds simply by cutting out alcohol, red meat, coffee-with cream (still drink it black, haven't been able to kick the habit yet), and as much pre-packaged food as I can.  I've started vitamin D3 supplements, have a green tea break in the afternoon, and am back to running/cycling several times a week.

What else can I do?

[Sorry if I sound naive, but there is just as much information out there about alternative cancer treatment as there is about conventional cancer treatment, and a lot of it is conflicting...]

Anonymous

JLW, for the record, your statement from the previous page should have read :

"A particular chemo regimen can only be used once"

NOT 

"Chemo can only be used once ..."

Big difference 

abigail48

it's not life threatening to kick coffee, but it is the very most painfull drug to stop.  take it very slow, & your adreynal function will shut off so you may have to lie down often.  when I kicked once I had to lie down, sometimes by the side of the road, on my mile & a half walk to town.  then when the green tea gives out & you have say an ice tea in a diner you can freak out.  that happened to me too.  & now with the admittendly de caff grean tea, if I had to stop?? who knows.......it does seem to help though.

I think juicing is important,  the high point of my day.  should all be well washed nonestrogenic, if that exaberates your trouble, organic,  the cheap juicers are okay.  I juice whole dlemons after I use the juice for other dishes.  can juice cut up oranges too, grapefruits I peel.........  ginger.......

apples are important, cabbage juice is too but it's pretty unbearable

Anonymous

Abigail, I would LOVE to know you in person - you sound like my grandma who I adored; she knew all the natural remedies, it's all they had then, not that far back.  She never ever set foot in a hospital, passed in her sleep in her late 80s, healthy as can be.  Had 6 sons at home, yes, six of them....and one girl.  All brought up on a farm where she grew everything, my grand da was a dairy farmer, so I was brought up on raw milk and her homemade cooking (sooo sooo delicious).  I miss her so very much 

abigail48

I'll be your grandma, maud

abigail48

kadia, I read that chipaddi horror story & others by her, it seems she did have surgery at once, another person I read about, I think I posted that info here, had sergery immediately, chemo & radiation, was okay for 5 years, & did in the 6th.  in 10 years I'll be 85

& by the way side effects are effects

Anonymous

Thank you Abigail, you're an angel 

SelenaWolf, there's a jewel of a thread here at BCO "natural girls" with tons and tons of info

http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/79/topic/730113?page=1 

Many great websites like this one also:

http://foodforbreastcancer.com/ 

exbrnxgrl

Abigail,

I just found it this morning. She is not very active on these boards but her story is out there.

As fo oncotype, please go to the Genomics web site and click on patient info. It outlines who the test is appropriate for and in some it is used for node positive patients.

Caryn

camillegal

This thread was a little explosive but well worth thr eead--We all have such different views of treatment and cancer in general. Are we all right or all wrong?  who knows for sure-In the 50's my Mom, 2 aunts all had Bc with removal of all breass.  None of them did chemo (and it was a choice) but all of them said no???Well u know what that sory is--rhey all lived to be in their late 80's who knows why? I am NOT ADVOCATING NO CHEMO--I had tons of it so I did what I was told pretty much. But my point is this--Does anyone really know outcome over the yrs. Some people (the drs. say) it's a miracle that someone survived and others are how could this happen. So it's all a crapshoot--if u believe in God u will put u faith in God and if u don't u will react accordin to u'r beliefs. And u have to choose u'r own path of treatment and know u believe in what u are doing. My curse/gift was I never overthink anything some want to know what they are fighting--Me I don't want to add stress so the less I know the better. But I respect anyone's decisions to do what they choose--and may we be blessed with the right results. 

camillegal

Selena u sound like u have really taken charge over u'r life--how wonderful to be able to do all u'r doing.. I surely admire u--it is not easy. And u seem to be doing all the right things--Good luck.

suzieq60

abigail - looks like Chillipadi did have surgery but no radiation, then had a local recurrence and didn't treat it. You really must have at least surgery so you know what you are dealing with. It's important to know what type of bc it is. Just because you are in your 70's doesn't mean you don't deserve to live a lot longer.

digger - I thought it was creepy too - she obviously visits another thread to see what's going on.

abigail48

but I woud think the surgery caused the spread

Kaara

Local recurrence happens with or without radiation.  Failure to have the second surgery is what caused the cancer to spread.  By the time she decided to do surgery it was too late.  I wonder if she tried Metformin like the wife of the man that posted on BCO recently.  Her IBC was beginning to clear the last I heard from him.  I hope it's continuing.

The strongest advocates of alternative medicine still promote surgery if the tumor can be removed in it's entirety.  It makes it easier for the immune system to fight and kill lingering cancer cells. 

abigail48

I doubt it

SelenaWolf

I get the feeling that some alternative treatments are more ... authentic than others.  And by that I mean, we all know that certain herbs are the basis for modern pharmaceuticals, i.e., willowbark, feverfew, etc. and that natural remedies do work.  There is proof.  However, I'm sure - just like there is with conventional medicine - there are a few, shall we say, less-than-honest companies out there that don't worry about safety and just want to make money.

How do you sort it all out?

Kadia

Selenawolf, for me the answer is to look at the research, and to look at the money.



For product/supplement information, I like Consumer Lab (although it costs $ to subscribe). There are some good books out there that evaluate the research on various supplements, remedies, and therapies and present it in laymans terms. Life over Cancer, Intergrative Oncology, and Defintive guide to Cancer are three I've referred to lately. There's always pubmed for abstracts to actual studies. I like Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer center's (free) directory of herbs. I would like to use the Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database but it's pricey. I like science based medicine blog, too.



There are some websites that are popular that scream quack to me. (Mercola comes to mind). To me, anything too strident (ie, everything allopathic is evil) or that's trying to sell its own products is suspect, and of little use to me. The situation is much too complicated to write off all conventional, or all alternative, remedies. It is harder to research the efficacy of alt treatment though.

SelenaWolf

Thank you for that... I'll start there...

MariannaLaFrance

SelenaWolf-

I've found quite a bit of good information on the Complementary forum and here, but  I've also done extensive research on nutrition, supplementation, and have consulted with a nutritionist to help me strengthen my body.  Your story (peeked at your profile) sounds similar to mine-- early diagnosis, and the need to get stronger and feel more in control of destiny.  I have done a lot of research and reading on Vitamin D-- I suggest the Vitamin D Council's website to begin with, and I've conducted self-study on vitamins. I am basically a walking vitamin therapy book at this point, so feel free to ask about supplementation on the Complementary Forum, and I'll pipe up there.

As for biking/running-- I'm a firm believer in the power of exercise to help in recovery (both mentally and physically). I've found that as I've gained strength, I have gained more confidence in my future.  (which was seriously lacking when I got diagnosed)

Peace. 

SelenaWolf

My pharmacist - when he saw my script for Tamoxifen - recommended the Vitamin D; at least, 2000 iu per day, he said, based on new research that Vitamin D deficiency seems to be linked to breast cancer and breast cancer recurrence.  He said that that is what he takes - despite the "recommended" dose of only 400 iu per day - because that is what is needed to keep the proper blood level.

I've always been active, but it's become much more important now... more so emotionally, I think, than physically.  I have to keep moving forward and exercise is the best way I know how to do that.  Keeps me healthy and it keeps me from brooding.  Love those endorphins!

Kaara

Selena:  It's important to have your vitamin D levels tested.  If you are very low, 2,000 IU's will not be enough.  I take 5,000 IU's daily and sometimes an extra one, because I'm trying to get my levels up to at least 70-80 which is optimal for fighting bc recurrence.  You have a wise pharmacist...lucky you!

Anonymous

This is for you Abigail

"Standard treatment for early breast cancer usually involves treatment with a combination of surgery and one or more adjuvant therapies, including chemotherapy, radiotherapy, and endocrine therapy. Younger women with early-stage breast cancer are almost always treated with surgery plus endocrine therapy.

However, women over 70 years have increasing rates of comorbidity, reduced life expectancy, and generally have more favorable breast cancer disease biology, while competing causes of death mean that they are less likely to die of their breast cancer, stage for stage, than a younger woman.

If you look at the causes of death of older ladies with breast cancer, probably more than half of them die of something completely unrelated, which is completely different to 30 year olds with breast cancer," says Wyld.

And it gets more complicated, as the tolerance of older women to some of the therapies is reduced, increasing treatment-related morbidity and reducing the risk/benefit ratio.

As Wyld explains: "If you've got a very frail 90 year old with a heart problem, then clearly an operation might not be in her best interests.

"You can't just lump them all together."

"The important thing when dealing with older ladies is that you have to tailor treatment much more because you have to take into account their life expectancy because of their other conditions, and their frailty levels. Frail patients won't tolerate chemotherapy, and won't tolerate a major surgical procedure."

As a result, the very standardized treatment protocols used for younger women are rarely suitable for an older patient, and the goals of treatment are aligned more with improving quality of life than with curing the disease.

"You can't just lump them all together," says Wyld. "For older ladies you have to do a very thorough assessment of their fitness levels and then decide what they need to treat their cancer that they can tolerate."

http://www.medwire-news.md/interview14.aspx 

Kaara

Maud:  Good article.  They tried the "one size fits all" approach with me and I rebelled:)  I still remember my frail 89 year old aunt who got bc and was given radiation after her lumpectomy which made her even more frail.  She died the following year...nothing in particular...just too tired to go on. I couldn't even believe that the doctors would have even offered it to her!