I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

riley702

never mind

Belinda44

Saw two things on another message board that I thought I'd share here.....

1:

"Hey, Mitt.  Did you know that in France, where they have public health care, people have more incentive to start their own small businesses because they can quit their jobs and not lose their health care?  You'd think you'd know that, seeing as you went to France for 30 months instead of serving your country in Vietnam..."

2:

riley702

QuinnCat

Jim Leher as Moderator was just awful.  Obama was not up to snuff...why didn't he bring up Romney's Emergency Room health plan, the 47% and why do you agree with Romney on Social Security - he wants to privatize it, unions, women?!  And Romney, interesting strategy...agree with all of the good things that Obama mentions that R's would typically hate, on education, on Obamacare.  Romney mentions all of the good things, but never once says how he will pay for them with his $5 trillion dollar tax cut (which by the way, has magically disappeared for the debates, as he can't say how he'll pay for it - he simply lied about this). Who can debate a liar? Obama was too careful, maybe trying to be too Presidential, and his strategy will not work going forward.

gardengumby

Very disappointed in Obama.  He needed to knock it out of the ballpark - he bunted.

alexandria58

Obama was off his game, missed a lot of opportunities.  Will say this: romney did well unless you play what he said tonight against what he's said the rest of the campaign.  Suddenly, he has a new health care plan?  He isn't lowering taxes on the weathly?  He won't cut education?  Give me a break. 

crazy4carrots

Belinda -- Biggest mistake is threatening Big Bird!

QuinnCat

Thinking back to 2008, I don't remember the Presidential Debates.  I do remember McCain's assinine comment on the economy a few days before it crashed, trying to cancel a debate, but then appearing on Letterman.

IllinoisLady

Romney did fine....except I still don't know what how he really plans to accomplish what he says.  He still has a problem with dodging and outright lying.  How did one of the commentators put it....eat cake--lose wt.  It just doesn't work.

Jackie

ananda8

Be calm. What I saw was Obama looking off his game, perhaps tired or rushed or something is up? He looked off his game during the Convention speech too. And, I saw Romney being very aggressive, which is fine, but he was down right rude to the moderator, Jim Lehrer.  Romney had a big smile on his face when he told Mr. Lehrer that he liked him but Romney was going to cancel funding for PBS.  Romney really does like laying people off.

People will digest this over the next couple of days. When they look back what will they remember?  I think the will remember that the President didn't do well and I think they will mull over just how aggressive Romney looked, sort of like a pushy car salesman trying to make quota. 

Everyone will remember that Romney wants to kill Big Bird, evidently our tall, yellow friend is part of the 47%.

crazy4carrots

Figuring out what's really important to the American people:

 

CBS snap poll: 69% Obama cares about their needs and problems up from 53% before debate

 

1Athena1

Fell asleep, missed the debate, then woke up to criticism of Obama' performance on MSNBC....which tells me he did badly.

My psychiatrist is writing a letter to my obgyn making the case that I am more at risk of dying from perimenopausal symptoms exacerbated from my comorbidity than from cancer at this time. I hope the obgyn listens.

We all have to die of something. We should be able to choose.

Athena, the Insomniac

GatorGal

Áthena, I'm an insomniac tonight, too. Chemo today with decadron pretreatment. I hope things work out the way you want them to. We all have to make our own choices about our health care.



Today I found out I would be getting one more doxil treatment at most, and that depends on my echocardiogram on the 17th. I'm close to that lifetime cap on adriamycin becauses it causes damage to the heart. After what happened with Marybe, I don't want to take any chances. Who knows what my next chemo will be. Onc said there are still lots of options and they come out with something new everyday. CT showed emphysema, collapsed lobe, and atherosclerotic changes to the heart .... BUT tumor shrinkage! Treatment can be hell but I'm still enjoying decent quality of life and will keep carrying on!



I, too, was disappointed with Obama's performance. I bet he comes out swinging next time. I think he was being presidential and trying to avoid personal attacks. But yeah, he bunted!

Anonymous

Glad I slept thru it, but then I never did enjoy playing Etch-A-Sketch.  Willard is back to his MA persona, and the tealiban must be stewing angry, not to mention his, ah, "running mate" - wow, just wow...makes The Three Faces of Eve seem elementary - this is really advanced - wonder how many of him there are in there

Only smart thing about the performance, his consultants knew it would demean the President of the United States to keep confronting him on his changing positions.

Next?  There will be al ot of etch-a-sketching  today...keep the FOCUS on the Electoral College, that IS all that matters.

Hapy Today.  Off to Painting class..

Warm smiles to all, be of good cheer, NOTHING significant has changed...

alexandria58

It would be helpful if the media - including MSNBC, which I usually love - stopped commenting on the style of the debate and looked at the substance - at how Romney did a 180 on so many topics. Liar, liar!

Well, at least it's making it easy for me to stay away from MSNBC this morning, since I can't stand rewatching Mittens.  Working on my new novel, and at page 41.  Trying for 50 pages by the end of the week.  

1Athena1

Glenna, best of luck. The important thing is that two key goals are being met for you: decent QOL and tumor shrinkage - may you meet NED very soon!

This is a day for the TV pundits to talk and for the rest of us to wish they would say something intelligent - just for once.

pupmom

I doubt this first debate will change anybody's mind. What it will do is energize the Repub base, maybe getting more to vote than would have happened if Mitt had resoundingly lost. I hope Obama gets more aggressive in the future. For Heaven's sake either he or Biden HAVE to bring up 47%/30%, Bain and the Republican war on women.

lassie11

How many more Presidential debates are there? Could it be that Obama has a strategy of being polite, truthful, specific and non confrontational for the first and then something else later? I don't understand why polite, truthful, specific and non confrontational are bad things while arrogant, interrupting, vague and wandering from truth are seen as a good thing. Politics mystify me.

pupmom

Lassie, there are 2 more presidental and 1 vice-presidental debates. It was believed that if Obama had won this first one he could have put Romney away. That obviously didn't happen, so Obama and Biden need to get a lot more aggressive, imho, during the next debates. Biden's very good, and he might be able to bring it home. Obama at his best is great too. But he needs to appear more engaged and energized.

crazy4carrots

Here you go, Sunflowers!

http://margaretandhelen.com/

 

IllinoisLady

notself....I agree and as David Axelrod said....it was a performance which looked good with no real substance.  I think Jim Lehher must be upset at the very rude behavior he got from Romney, and the smirks remained all the while.  I bet the moderators will have taken a few notes as well. 

Jackie

ananda8

Romney did a major move to the center by rejecting the Ryan budget plan.  The Tea Party won't be happy about it but they will still support the ticket because Romney can just as rapidly switch back.

We won't know the impact, if any, on the polls for a couple of days.  My guess is that it will not move the polls very much except in the toss up swing states.  Florida, Virginia, Colorado and Iowa are still within the margin of error and could swing Romney's way.  Obama could lose each of those states and still win.  Romney needs each one of them to just pull close in the electoral college.  As it stand now, without the toss up states, the count is Obama 269, Romney 181 with 279 needed to win the Presidency.

I have fiddled with the map and made things come out a tie, which of course will be decided in the House of Representatives and Romney would win.  Here is the electoral map from Real Clear Politics.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/obama_vs_romney_create_your_own_electoral_college_map.html

alexandria58

I think the problem is that Obama wanted to appear presidential and didn't want to risk his likeability by aggressively attacking Romney on his lies.  But there has to be something in between passively letting Romney lie and acting like an attack dog.

pupmom

Alexandria, have you been listening to Chuck Todd today? He's pointing out that the last 4 out of 5 sitting presidents have lost their first debates to the challengers. People are speculating that presidents are accustomed to being listened to and treated with deference when they speak. They're not used to debating and being attacked one-on-one. Also, as you mentioned, they want to look presidential and in control. Some are also saying that Obama did not take Romney seriously before the debate. He may have thought he could blow Romney out of the water without getting aggressive. Hope he's learned otherwise.

QuinnCat

A couple of interesting reader comments from the NY Times:

 From Maryland:

President Obama reminded me of my A-student presenters who had over-prepared for their big moment, exhausting their "chi," or life force. On the other hand, Romney burst onto the floor like the over-confident, over-caffeinated C or even D student, rattling off whatever came to mind, simply to avoid a pause that would allow his audience time to think about what he was saying and to realize what little effort he had made.  From Pennsylvania:

Obama was smart in not mentioning the 47 percent, because by avoiding it, he denied Romney the chance to defend his statements anew. He had a chance previously to explain his words, and he blew it. Romney wouldn't independently bring up his gaffe on television last night, and by Obama also not mentioning it, he was effectively denied a chance to redeem himself on that matter. 

Alexandria - substance..you mean the Romney lies? I suppose one of those zingers was Romney comparing Obama to his 5 sons, who are all apparently liars.  Apple - Tree.  Romney lied about the defecit, his $5 trillion dollar tax cut, Government takeover of healthcare (I'm personally sick of that one if one can prioritize one's least favorite of Romney lies), the $716 bil cut from Medicare. There are probably more.....

Our news is just so superficial and they're living up to their image with these debate critiques.  I do agree Obama seemed lackluster, but I'm voting for someone that is calm and collected under pressure, thoughtful, not a cheerleader and a liar. 

pip57

Well, dh and I don't have a horse in this race so we only watched for interest sake.  What kept us entertained was the absolute discomfort on Romney's face as Obama spoke. He looked like he was going to cry.  His blink rate was off the charts. Grimmacing the whole time.  We kept imaging that he was getting bad news, like his wife telling him that she and the gardener were having an affair.  Stuff like that.  Immature, yes.  Fun, yes.

However, I would agree with most.  Obama was lackluster.  Maybe they are just lulling the Romney camp into a sense of security and will come out fighting in the next round.  I thought Obama should have let Romney speak more.  That is when he gets flustered and makes stuff up. 

kad2kar

So many people are chortling up their sleeve this AM. Nice man, bigger flagpin,power tie and a Very badly moderated debate.  Nice man,smaller flagpin, and a moderator NOT doing his job.   

Sun----Does MA have Medicare?  Both my DH and I thought Romney said MA does not have Medicare.

Now how do I MAKE THESE letters small again??

Wabbit

I didn't watch the debate.  But Obama is always polite, cool, calm and collected and not inclined to be rude or rash or fly off the handle.  He's more of a peacemaker than arrogant and confrontational.

Honestly that is what I like about him and why I trust him to make good decisions.  I don't expect him to change his spots for any debate and go all rude and in your face.  I know some wish he would but I really don't think he has the authoritarian mindset required to go all 'you are telling lies, now sit down, shut up and let me talk' that some think he should do. 

Interesting that most of what I'm seeing on FB this morning is all about how Romney is going to pluck Big Bird to solve our deficit problem.  The other muppets are not pleased either    

1Athena1

Didn't watch the debate either, but doubt it will change much. Debates do not count in the way they used to. The election cycle is too long and they happen too late in the election.

Wabbit

My fantasy debate ...

Truth serum administered to the participates ... no nonsense moderators asking real questions, demanding specifics and not accepting BS answers.

That I would watch.

Romney has changed his positions so many times I have to think he is just hoping at this point that some folks have either not been paying attention and have only heard one version ... or that they will reach in the grab bag and pull out the one they like.