I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

pupmom

Republicans can't talk about their fiscal and health care plans, because doing so would guarantee they LOSE. So they obfuscate and outright lie when necessary.

CLC, hope your school year just gets better and better! Sometimes the beginning is the worst part. 

Anonymous

This program, which Obama approved last week, the day after he promised that he would "never turn Medicare into a voucher" will affect 2 million people who are eligible for both Medicare and Medicaid.  That will include many of the stage IV women on this board. 

http://www.nationaljournal.com/healthcare/obama-more-flexible-on-medicare-than-rhetoric-suggests-20120908?page=1

"Never" didn't last very long.

ETA  Unlike the Republican proposal which would only affect those under 55, and would be strictly voluntary, this plan will be mandatory for those who are deemed "eligible" for it.

1Athena1

oh not again.

And please no one tell me what she said. It doesn't help.

It takes a lot of energy of a sinister kind to keep coming here and attempting to censure. Usually, when one is confident of one's views and values, one doesn't feel the need to intrude upon others.

alexandria58

I don't know about anyone else, but as long as I get my Medicare, I don't care about people who are now under 55.   They've got plenty of time to make millions to pay for the insurance that the voucher won't cover.   And they're warned, so they know they better eat a lot of - brussel sprouts - to stay healthy.  Self reliance, that's the ticket.   It's the American way.   

1Athena1

From the inimitable Paul Krugman:

Now, all of this puts the White House in a difficult bind. Making a big deal of Republican obstructionism could all too easily come across as whining. Yet this obstructionism is real, and arguably is the biggest single reason for our ongoing economic weakness.

And what happens if the strategy of obstruct-and-exploit succeeds? Is this the shape of politics to come? If so, America will have gone a long way toward becoming an ungovernable banana republic.

Full article:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/opinion/krugman-obstruct-and-exploit.html?_r=1&hp

alexandria58

Honestly, we just have to hope that enough people will start rejecting the Republicans down the line that there will have to be a movement back towards the center.  We can hope, anyway. 

1Athena1

The republican party, as it existed in the 60s, 70s and 80s, is defunct. Its ideology is bankrupt. What we have are a few renegade statesmen, and the rest are right wing fanatics of the Goldwater type. For Ronmey, the national candidate who seeks to appeal to a plurality of voters, the uphill climb and credibility gap have never seemed so wide.

rosemary-b

I am really insulted that as a person over 55 I should vote for Romney's Medicare policy because my Medicare will be safe. I have chidren and I want them to have security in their old age too. Sorry, unlike some, I do not eat my young.

bluedahlia

CherrylH

Stopping in to say good night. I have the strange feeling that ailen forces are circling our land of tranquility, but are unable to penetrate the force field. Stay safe, fellow island of sanity travellers. Hopefully the skitters (alien force field) will soon move on and peace will once again reign in our part of the universe. And thing will cease to fall from the skies.

riley702

Hear, hear, CherrylH. I raise my nightcap in a toast to you.

YramAL

"I've got mine-to hell with the rest of you" seems to be the new American way. Makes me sick. 

A toast to our bartender!

Blue-I'm going to try and steal that picture for my facebook page! That describes me very well.

Mary 

1Athena1

Blue, I love that cartoon.

Well, off to subsidize more red staters and corporate welfare kings - er, I mean, off to work, off to earn money so that I can pay taxes to help my country (and buy me some of Lagerfeld's creations, but I never said that.  )

Bartender, you have said it best. But we are friends here and we will prevail. I do think that good always triumphs over evil in the end.

alexandria58

I hope everyone realizes that my comments on vouchers for those under 55  were meant to be sarcastic. 

RetiredLibby

Alexandria, it never occurred to me that they WEREN'T sarcastic! :-)



Really? *Someone* ACTUALLY said that if we are over 55 we should vote for Romney/Ryan so our Medicare would be safe? REALLY?? Wow. Must be some powerful smoke (and mirrors...). And what, pray tell, makes anyone think that the Republicans would honor any promise (and as far as I can tell, there is NO promise to keep Medicare as it is for those born in 1957 or earlier)? They are backing away so fast from their PROMISE on the debt deal that they are not only leaving skid marks, they are in speeding ticket territory.



And I don't want to hear any whining about all the promises the President has "broken.". Let's end obstruction in the House of the President's jobs bill (languishing a year now). Let's end Republican obstruction to the closure of Gitmo. Let's have the Republicans in Congress start holding votes on things that MATTER to the country rather than trying to regulate and legislate every uterus, ovary, fallopian tube and egg in the United States. I don't want to hear anything at all until the Republicans in Congress start behaving like they care about this country and the people in it rather than winning an election and throwing the President out of the White House. The good people of Kentucky should have impeached Mitch McConnell for his statement that the Republicans' number one priority was to make the President a one-term president. REALLY??!! The country was awash in foreclosures, people hungry and homeless and jobless, the stock market tanked, and your NUMBER ONE priority was to get "that man" out of the White House?



Rant/off. Gonna eat some carrot sticks now, since I gained weight on the Bermuda cruise!



Waving to all, loving the rants! You're all right -- decent people don't eat their young or cast votes on the basis of "I have mine, screw you."



L

Anonymous

Hi, fellow Voices of Real Reason, it is SO lovely here under the Block/Ignore button, really, I urge any who haven't tried it to give it a chance - it is SUCH a delicious giggle to see the notice when a person who just can't let go of this Friendship Group of wise, kind, supportive breast cancer survivors, who care about each other and the COMMUNITY tries to butt in and saves you from even seeing the words....really, and to bring along the next generation in those devious ways...I guess that's what happens when negativity is in the air one breathes. 

YEAH, Cory Booker - heard him say that Sunday am - cheered then, and again reading it here knowing someone else resonated with it.  

For all good polls, I suggest Nate Silver, 538.  Really is the best summation of all of them.  

SCOOT - YOU ARE THE BEST, the BEST, the BEST...really makes me SMILE, SMILE, SMILE everytime I get to read your words.

HL - you tell'em! They're all reminding me of a notorious actor, defending a certain "point of view" ranted on about when he got to Hollywood he had to make it all on HIS OWN, he even had to use Food Stamps, but he did it all on his own."  Nearly peed in my pants laughing....

crazy4carrots

The following is from a recent Institute of Medicine report on U.S. healthcare.  It's excerpted from a health article in today's Globe & Mail by health columnist Andre Picard, and talks about the approx. $750M in waste:

Unnecessary care, $210-billion: Over-treatment has reached epidemic proportions in the profit-driven U.S. system; there is much truth to the stereotype that patients with a headache and good insurance get MRIs.Excessive administration, $190-billion: Cataloguing expenses and multiple insurance plans makes lots of paperwork.Inefficient delivery of care, $130-billion: Administration is not centralized, so patients get shuffled among specialists and facilities, with much overlap.Inflated prices, $105-billion: An appendectomy can cost $1,529 to $182,955, depending on where it is performed. Unlike other countries that depend on private providers and insurance, the U.S. has very little price regulation. Fraud, $75-billion: Health care involves so much money that it attracts crime; common fraudulent practices include providers that double-bill, suppliers that don’t deliver and patients who cheat on their insurance. 

Prevention failures, $55-billion: A common example is diabetics who have to have limbs amputated because they couldn’t afford medication. 

crazy4carrots

And from the same article:

The IOM has put the failures into context through some easy-to-understand analogies. To wit:If banking were like health care, automated transactions would take days rather than seconds because of unavailable or misplaced records.If home building were like health care, carpenters, electricians and plumbers would work from different blueprints, with very little co-ordination.If shopping were like health-care, prices would not be posted and would vary widely within the same store.If automobile manufacturing were like health care, there would be no warranties for cars and therefore no incentive to monitor and improve performance and product quality.If airline travel were like health care, each pilot would be free to design his or her own pre-flight safety check, or not perform one.What is noteworthy is these analogies apply to Canada, too.So too do the basic messages, which are ultimately more important than the dollar figures.The IOM notes that the past half century has had dramatic biomedical advances, from drug therapies to surgical procedures, and many diagnoses that were once a death sentence (like cancer) are now chronic health problems, with both the benefits and challenges that entails.The paradox is that comparable progress has not come on the management side and “health care is falling short on basic dimensions of quality, outcomes, cost and equity.”

Wabbit

I'm pretty sure that my 53 year old sister and 50 year old brother would be upside my head with a baseball bat if I was inclined to go running around being all gleeful that I was over 55 and would be fine ... with a side order of 'sucks to be you 2' but why should I care.  And rightfully so. 

Sending Happy Birthday wishes to lassie today ... hope you have a good one!

Speaking of birthdays and stuff falling from the sky.  True story ... my sister was being taken out for dinner on her birthday this year and a friggin bird pooped on her head on the way into the restraurant.  I wasn't even there and I've been watching the sky more closely ever since.  Just thought it might put other stuff into perspective on the magnitude of aggravation scale    

gardengumby

Never fear, Alexandria - we know you well and recognize sarcasm when uttered (or typed)

In regards to the actor who "did it on his own" while using food stamps - that's the Republican way, you know.  Everything they can get from the government, they do - and are usually first in line for it.  BUT, it was never actually from the government - they DESERVED it.  They conveniently forget any aid (or at least where it originated), so whenever anyone else needs help, well then that person should be able to "do it on their own, just like I did!"  I'll never understand the mine set of "I've got mine, to hell with you" that seems to permeate our society these days. 

rosemary-b

Oh I know you were being sarcastic alexandria. I wish I could not believe that anyone could seriously say we should leave those under 55 twisting in the wind.

IllinoisLady

What a shockeroo.....after listening to  ( ok....I admit it )  MSNBC last night and feeling fairly good, to then see the Nat'l Journal article.  Confirmation of respectful reason and I'm back to my good feelings.  No wonder I un-lurked myself after hanging around since page 600. 

Jackie

Wabbit

Posted in remembrance ... and with gratitude that Osama bin Laden has finally been taken out for that crime. 

 

Anonymous

thanks Linda, sad reading, but hopefully, HOPEFULLY the USA is moving in the correct direction re: healthcare.

thanks, too, wr, moving.  Amazing, but true, as VP Joseph Biden has said, "OBL is dead, and GM is alive."

Alexandria - I think you do great snark

Anonymous

Lindasa, who are these "diabetics who have to have limbs amputated because they couldn't afford medication."? 

Wal-Mart, Target, and other stores sell diabetes medications at $10 for a three month supply, and several grocery store chains give diabetes medications and antibiotics away for free as long as you have a prescription.  

There must be other factors involved in that $55 billion, because the excuse that people can't afford the preventative medication just doesn't hold up, at least not for the example you cite.   

Amputations are one of the more horrifying complications of diabetes, and there are many factors that exacerbate the need for them, including the peripheral neuropathy that so many of our sisters suffer with as a long term side effect of chemo.  Using them to further a political agenda is inappropriate at best.

duckyb1

Years ago, when I watched Obama for the first time makeing his speech at the DNC...........I said "that man is going to be President one day........I had the feeling in my gut, he was insipiring, uplifting, and a breath of fresh air at the time....................and so here we are today..............wondering.......what has this country come to, what has our government lowered themselves to................"Let's make him a one term President"..............Horrible to put their sights on that being your main objective for the next four years...........................No matter what Obams proposed, what ideas he had, what good he could have done....................he was shot down from the moment he said "I accept the nomination", and even more so when he won the election........

We all know why many did not want him as President.............I heard it, comments, slurs, degrading remarks about him, and his family, and his race.....................

Maybe he hasn't done everything right, but his hands were tied by a Congress who was determined to strike down anything and everything he tried to do...............Now there are "assholes" out there doing a "poll" asking "did Romney help capturing Bin Laden".................are they frigging nuts.......................I personally think Obama has done the best he could do under the circumstances, and going into the office while the country was in the worst shape it has ever been in since the "great depression"......................I voted for Bush.......I liked him..........he failed in the final years...............and Obama got the blame................................

ALL I KEEP THINKING IS.............WHY WOULD HE WANT TO DO ANOTHER 4 YEARS.........also....love Michele and the girls.................class act..............and I am caucasian.........................

pupmom

Thank you WH. This is a sad day of remembrance. 

crazy4carrots

PatMom:  I suggest you take your questions up with the Institute of Medicine, the body that wrote the report and provided the examples.

1Athena1

Trolls do have an obligation to ignore us.

Significantly edited.

Wabbit

But lioness ... we are researchers at heart.  Misrepresentations of articles and questions with answers easily supplied by common sense are like waving red flags at us. 

Which is not to say that people using these tactics should be allowed to hijack our conversations.  So you are right.  I am going to hop up and join you on the Serenity Bench.