I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

1Athena1

Ok, here is the statement by Standard and Poor's. Be it noted that they AFFIRM their rating of the US but downgrade the outlook because of the size of the deficit coupled with political uncertainty regarding negotiations over the budget (investors detest uncertainty. They almost prefer a bad but certain outcome to uncertainty. I know about these things):

 We have affirmed our 'AAA/A-1+' sovereign credit ratings on the United
States of America.
The economy of the U.S. is flexible and highly diversified, the country's
effective monetary policies have supported output growth while containing
inflationary pressures, and a consistent global preference for the U.S.
dollar over all other currencies gives the country unique external
liquidity.
Because the U.S. has, relative to its 'AAA' peers, what we consider to be
very large budget deficits and rising government indebtedness and the
path to addressing these is not clear to us, we have revised our outlook
on the long-term rating to negative from stable.
We believe there is a material risk that U.S. policymakers might not
reach an agreement on how to address medium- and long-term budgetary
challenges by 2013; if an agreement is not reached and meaningful
implementation is not begun by then, this would in our view render the
U.S. fiscal profile meaningfully weaker than that of peer 'AAA'
sovereigns.

On its face, the blame for this indecision belongs to both branches of government, not Obama. But the US rating was just affirmed (for now). 

Source:  http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/articles/en/us/?assetID=1245302886884

Medigal

Athena:  How I wish you were right and Obama was an able leader!  Yes the republicans, imo, have been acting like jackasses and the problems I speak of were not necessisarily caused by the Dems. However, this is why we need for Obama to take charge of the mess and guide our country back to economical sanity.  I have sent some heated letters to Republican leaders about their actions but I think both sides are playing too much "one against the other" instead of doing what is necessary to resolve the debt problems we are facing.  I am very glad you have a strong feeling about what is going on and always glad to read other opinions than my own.  We can learn from others if we take the time to listen instead of just being "closed minded".  

1Athena1

Here is an excerpt from a press release by S&P (by the way, I don't necessarily trust those credit agencies - they have been involved in scandals of their own - still, if Wall Street still believes them, we have to pretend we do too, because interest rates rise on beliefs, not necessarily facts):

 "Our negative outlook on our rating on the U.S. sovereign signals that
we believe there is at least a one-in-three likelihood that we could lower our
long-term rating on the U.S. within two years," Mr. Swann said. "The outlook
reflects our view of the increased risk that the political negotiations over
when and how to address both the medium- and long-term fiscal challenges will
persist until at least after national elections in 2012."

1Athena1

Medigal, we crossposted. I agree.

I want to add, too, that much as I like Obama, I have nothing but contempt for the congressional democrats and their sissy, wimp ways. They were unable to pass a full budget when they were a majority because they were too scared of republicans and now we are all paying the price. Really, the problem is that we have Congress at a very low point in its history. The senate is in a particularly awful state and no president can overcome that without a coup d'etat. The whole institution of congress has degenerated into a beauty contest where one side has no respect for facts (did you see Kyle?)and the other has no courage whatsoever. I don't know what any president can do. 

Medigal

Athena:  Thanks for posting that but I read it today when I was doing some research on the possibility of our rating being lowered.   However, just because they say "within two years" does not mean we can just sit back and allow it to happen or just sit on our hands until 2012, imo.  My concern is that other nations read this stuff too and are losing confidence in the US and they could take actions which could trigger the rating to fall before two years.  I am looking for actions from Obama and our reps to take charge "now" so we will not have to fear what can happen in two years or at any time.  Frankly, the way things are going, I don't think we have 2 years to play around with this issue. 

1Athena1

I have similar dreads to yours, Medigal. One absolutely CANNOT mess around with the bond markets - this could have major reprecussions for interest rates and economic recovery. Thank God China is suffering huge inflation worries right now (not to wish ill on others) because our "position" would look even more vulnerable. My fear is that this is a no-joke moment at a time when there are a lot of not-serious people in Congress like Paul Ryan who don't really understand that and who have no basic grasp of economic principles or fundamental facts. 

Marple

I started watching The Doors special last night and dangit.........fell asleep.  What I saw was very nostalgic and yet I hadn't even got to my era yet.  Will it be on again?

Medigal

Athena:  What is so sad is that people like yourself and myself seem to have better grasp of economic principles and can see the dark clouds looming yet our congressmen argue over crap which has nothing todo with protecting our economy.  China is one of my biggest concerns because they hold so much of our debt.  However, our main protection with them is that they need us to continue buying "everything" practically from them.  I don't know when was the last time I bought something that didn't say "Made in China"!    BTW, for the sake of the retiree's savings, I have been yearning for higher interest rates.  However, I don't want them to come at the sake of the bond markets.  That could bring major problems.  We just can't win these days!

1Athena1

Medigal, I agree.

And I will revise my rather naive remarks on Ryan. I don't know whether he understands economics, but his ultimate goal is to starve the beast and end any program that makes this country civilized. He believes health care is an option. He is a relic of the pre-Enlightenment era. 

Enjoyful

PatMom -

I agree that the qualification of "natural-born citizen" should be verified.  In Obama's case, it wouldn't have mattered anyway since no amount of proof on earth or in heaven would appease the birthers.

E

pickle

Athena and Medigal:Great exchange going on. Excellent, informative, engaging posts.

BarbaraA

I agree with Pickle. I enjoyed reading your opinions.

konakat

Me too!  I agree with Pickle and Barbara.

Sharon-- you fell asleep during the Doors???  I'd be wide awake and giddy!

Enjoyful

It was all of the "special" smoke in the air.  It can make you sleep, or so I've heard. 

crazy4carrots

E -- hahaha!

I notice that George Stephanopolous actually showed a copy of Obama's birth certificate to Michele Bachmann on TV and she finally said (to paraphrase) "Well, that's that, then; case closed!".  Wonder what the Donald would say?  Wonder what his "investigators" have uncovered in Hawaii?  Besides sunburn.......

Medigal

Lindasa:  I think the only thing the Donald's "investigators" have uncovered in Hawai is a way to just keep the Donald in the news.  I would like everyone to quit giving him all this attention about the "birther" deal so we can find out if he knows anything else politically to discuss about the serious issues facing our country.  He seems to enjoy telling everyone how "rich" he is.  Sooooo I think he should use some of his wealth to help pay off our debt and help the Republicans find a "real" presidential candidate for 2012.  Just my opinion but I am quickly getting tired of seeing him in the news whinning about a darn birth certificate!

pip57

Why do I have the feeling that his investigators will discover the proper document (the one that we have already seen), verify it (like only Trump can) and will declare that HE has solved the issue.  The Tea Party and birthers will thank him and become his best buddies.

BarbaraA

Puhleeeze. The Donald is doing this whole thing for ratings.

bluedahlia

Will they now turn on Michelle Bachmann because she said it's done?

IronJawedBCAngel

Donald Trump's and OJ Simpson's investigators are hot on the trail of truth, justice and the American Way, and will get back to us shortly.....

Excuse me while I cough up a hairball!

1Athena1

Speaking of how rich Trump wants us to think he is, I am enclosing this absolute gem of an article from the NYT by a reporter who wrote a book on The Donald's dissembling re: his wealth. I could not stop laughing. He would inflate his wealth in the same conversation - he would even lie to Forbes. I used to detest the man but after this article a part of me realized how very human he is. Now I don't take anything he says seriously, so I enjoy reading about him the way one would a cartoon character. It is endearing and no longer offensive (oh and of course he won't be president - he just loves to waste airwaves and the pundits neeed something to say):

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/23/business/yourmoney/23trump.html?scp=1&sq=Donald+Trump+wealth+Palm+Beach&st=nyt

Ellie1959

I hope you are right Athena - but we have had some dandies in office - I'm afraid he might appeal to the masses-

BarbaraA

Ellie, if that is the case, woe is us.

Alpal

I would be interested in knowing whether he has felt the need to pay off his bad debts once he recovers - which he seems to do so nicely. I know that after filing bankruptcy, he is under no legal obligation to repay those debts, but seems to me it's the right thing to do. Or is bankruptcy just part of his finacial planning? Rack up the debts, get them erased, and go on?

Bren-2007

According to the article, Trump didn't file for bankruptcy.  He renegotiated the debt with the banks and sold most of his real estate holdings in Manhattan.  He has a very inflated sense of his own financial worth, which is at odds with the facts.

He tries so hard to be relevant .. but he's just a big baffoon .. in my opinion.

I enjoyed reading the NYT article about him.  It was interesting.  Apparently his biggest asset is his name.

Bren

River_Rat

Alpal, you know the rich live by different rules.  At least those as rich as the Donald thinks he is.

Medigal

Jumping fried rats!!  The Donald seems to handle his own finances the way our gov handles theirs!! We can't let him get near the presidency!!  I was hoping with him we at least had someone who knew how to handle finances.  That article sure gives a different picture.  Ok, so now I have to rethink who to vote for in 2012.  I just can't give Obama a second term, and the rest of the Repub group churns my stomach.  I sure hope the Dems come up with someone who still has a "brain" and knows how to use it!   Our candidates seem more like Broadway entertainers than real politicians.  Too bad Fred Astire is gone.  At least he could dance his way around the White House while it fell down over his head!  What a predicament for our country to be in!  Can't win for losing for sure!

crazy4carrots

Still trying to figure out how Trump's casinos lost money.  I thought the "house" nearly always wins....

Medigal, you've got a President with brains -- dealing with the brainless (Congress) is another matter entirely!

"Jumping fried rats" is an interesting picture, BTW

Medigal

Aw shucks, Lindasa.  Now you know what we had for supper!  "Jumping fried rats"!   And mustard greens and corn for extras.  These days I am trying to get used to economizing so one uses what one has to, to survive.

Ok, so I guess the answer is to keep Obama and throw out everyone else in Congress!  I'm up for whatever works to resolve our problems.  You know you really have it on the mark, Lindasa.  No matter who we put in as President, if he can't buck the Congress, we're still screwed!  "Jumping Fried Rats for ALL!"

rosemary-b

I think it is interesting that Karl Rove sais Donald Trump's continued attention to the birther issue makes him a joke candidate.