I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

BarbaraA

Oh, RR, I just heard on the radio that several workers stepped in a puddle which soaked their shoes and now they find the puddle was extremely radioactive. And that, they said, was indicative of a core meltdown. Prayers going up for Japan. So sad.

1Athena1

I was about to mention that. I hope the cherry blossom festival opening in DC gives us a chance to show Japan our solidarity and friendship. The trees were a gift from the Japanese government.

River_Rat

A heart-wrenching article:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake;_ylt=AswIkKODToPjvpf.JoHQ1Otv24cA;_ylu=X3oDMTFjbDdzNmJkBHBvcwMxBHNlYwN5bl9wcm9tb3NfdG9wX2JhcgRzbGsDbGF0ZXN0dXBkYXRl 

bluedahlia

Medigal, this is a political thread +.  Why would Shirley need to open a new thread?  We can discuss and argue and  joke around.

River_Rat

I don't know what to make of this site, but they list 2 dead and 2 missing as a direct result of the nuclear accident:

Here is the list of all disaster incidents worldwide apparently (once again, I haven't had a chance to research what this site is, but very interesting): 

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php?area=asia%E3%80%88=eng 

This is the result of clicking on more info for the Japanese incidents: 

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/woalert_read.php?edis=NC-20110311-29877-JPN 

River_Rat

Not sure why I got a double post, so edited this one.

IronJawedBCAngel

I am just sick for the people of Japan.  They have been through so much already.  The mother of a good friend of mine was one of the small children burned during Hiroshima.  Obviously she survived, but was told she would probably never have children.  She had seven and all of them have various odd health issues or abnormalities.  The doctors' speculation is that the radiation altered her genetic makeup.  I can not imagine the terror the mothers and fathers of small children endure trying to get through this tragedy.

River_Rat

IJBCA, it is unthinkable to imagine going through this much less with the history of radiation in Japan.  I saw the saddest thing on the news the other day, they showed a nine year old boy who was going to shelters looking for his parents and he had a sign that he would be back the next day.  That poor child has been on my mind and causing me to cry at the strangest times.

208sandy

Those poor people, the whole country is paralyzed waiting to see what's going to happen.  I hate that there are people in the "zone" that can't get medical help they are mostly elderly and have been abandoned, it's like the whole country has lost its will to live, so many children died in the tsunami as well - every day I keep hoping they'll get the nuclear mess under some control and every day the news just gets worse. 

Sandy

crazy4carrots

What I find extra-scary is that the Japanese have the most sophisticated and well-thought-out plans in place for earthquakes, or tsunamis, or nuclear accidents -- but when everything happens at virtually the same time, the ensuing devastation is overwhelming.  Do you remember that, at the beginning, newscasters and "opinionators" (my word!) were saying that this was the big difference between the earthquake in Haiti and the one in Japan, and that the Japanese would recover quickly from this.

So many people abandoned -- that is just so very horrible.

River_Rat

Here is the information I found regarding the disaster website I linked to previously.  I have also found links referring to this site at various groups including educational, Christian and news sites.

AboutDear Visitors,Let me introduce our services. The Hungarian National Association of Radio Distress-Signalling and Infocommunications (RSOE) operates Emergency and Disaster Information Service (EDIS) within the frame of its own website which has the objective to monitor and document all the events on the Earth which may cause disaster or emergency. Our service is using the speed and the data spectrum of the internet to gather information. We are monitoring and processing several foreign organisation’s data to get quick and certified information.The EDIS website operated together by the General-Directorate of National Disaster Management (OKF) and RSOE, in co-operation with the Crisis Management Centre of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, provides useful information regarding emergency situations and their prevention. Extraordinary events happening in Hungary, Europe and other areas of the World are being monitored in 24 hours per day. All events processed by RSOE EDIS are displayed near real time – for the sake of international compatibility – according to the CAP protocol on a secure website (https://hisz.rsoe.hu). To ensure clear transparency all events are categorized separately in theRSS,XML, CAP directory (e.g. earthquake, fire, flood, landslide, nuclear event, tornado, vulcano). RSOE EDIS also contributes in dissemination of the CAP protocol in Hungary.

Beside the official information, with the help of special programs nearly 9-1000 internet press publications will be monitored and the publication containing predefined keywords will be processed. However, these "news" cannot be considered as official and reliable information, but many times we have learnt critical information from the internet press. We are screening the incoming information and storing in a central database sorted by category.

http://www.edis.hu/?pageid=about_index 

And here once again is a link to the global disaster site referenced above, which is quite amazing:

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php?area=asia%E3%80%88=eng 

Medigal

Good Morning Ladies.  This is so sad about Japan and the radiation problems.  They are such strong and courageous people.  Makes one wonder how that dear 9 year old boy got born into a world where he has to survive such a catastrophe and go wandering in the streets looking for his parents.  I pray he does find them and they have survived.

Blue:  The reason I think and hope Shirley will start a new political thread for people who do not want to be discussing bc all the time is that maybe we can draw people who have our same concerns for our country and take a lot of the things we hear and read more seriously than most of the members on this thread.  These ladies have "every" right to disagree with us but the way they go about it, alarms me.  Just what if "we" are right about what we think is going on in our own country and they are just basically putting on blindfolds and refusing to even think about it?

Years ago, DP and I were traveling and had a very odd experience.  We met a very nice Russian gentleman who seemed to like us and we got into a conversation about politics (Yes! ).  He very kindly told us that one day in the future our country would be taken over and changed and it would not take one bomb.  He said our "freedom of speech" and other freedoms were going to take us down,  We basically are our own enemy.  He was not being cruel and we thanked him for sharing his opinion with us but we never forgot his words.  What I fear most is that the day is already here and we are even being allowed to know what our enemies are up to and yet we turn on each other instead of thinking "what if this is true?" "Maybe I should take heed.  Not panic.  But just take heed and watch who is doing what for the sake of my country and future for my children".

When I made the remark about certain members putting their "heads in the sand" it was not to be cruel but they made it clear they do not want to know or even hear about any negative issues that people like myself may be concerned about.  I was not name calling, I was just visualizing what they are doing by they own replies.  This is NOT about who disagrees with whom.  Reading the replies I received for the political post, I felt afraid for my country and realized how easy it will be for our enemies (whoever they are and wherever they are) to take control of us.  WE are not supposed to be a Socialistic country yet some replies made me realize that many are already programmed for the change and will probably be happy when it occurs.  Like the man said "it won't even take one bomb".  Just the reprogramming of our mines because our enemy can use our "freedom of speech" against us as a weapon.

Now do you "really" want Medigal to use "your" thread for her political opinions?  One day maybe but not yet.  I think I will do everyone a favor by taking my concerns where they will be appreciated and where I can learn more from people who want to know what is happening in their own country.    Have a nice day Ladies.  

rosemary-b

I too was troubled hearing about the elderly who were abandoned or who just died laying on the floors of shelters, and about people who tried to get away from the power plant but could get no gasoline for their cars,and the water in Tokyo that wasn't safe for babies and then a day later was and the workers who fight heroically to fix the problem

You're right Linda, it is scary that Japan had the best plans in the world and still ended up with such devastation.

konakat

(((((Medigal)))))

Please accept my belated Happy Anniversary!!!! 

I do hope you stay here.  It would be boring if everyone agreed with everyone else all the time!  To read opinions and ideas that one may not have considered before is a good thing.  Reading opposing arguments may solidify what one already believes or give food for further thought.  Just my 2 cents.  Hugs,

Elizabeth

Edit to add:  Even if you and Shirley start a new thread I do hope you continue to pop into this thread.  xox

konakat

I am terrified for the Japanese.  A week ago a woman who survived Hiroshima was interviewed on the news.  She said that she was stigmatized.  No one wanted her, no one wanted to marry her out of fear for what their potential children may suffer from the radiation that changed her body.  And here it may happen again.  The pain people are suffering will go on long past the immediate danger is over.

Wabbit

I like that site River Rat ... saved it for future reference.  I guess time will tell how accurate their information turns out to be.

My heart breaks for the Japanese caught up in this mess.  They probably do not really have any good options for evacuations of all the people in the area.  The culture would normally have family step in to help out its members in trouble but in this case whole families are involved and the destruction is so widespread.  Sad. 

1Athena1

Disasters like this teach us that sometimes civilization is just a thin veneer that can be wiped away by the most ancient forces of nature in a minutes. As this nuclear crises spreads, it is easy to forget all of the dead and missing solely because of the tsunami. There is a limit to what even a sophisticated economy and a cohesive society can deal with. We will probably see the best and the worst of human nature played out, just as we did with Katrina.

Time for Japan, once again, to "endure the unendurable."

Alpal

Every single poster on this thread is intelligent enough to know that there are figures on both the right and the left who cause instant polarization. We know that when we post links to those people an uproar will ensue. I suspect that links to certain sources are posted with the intent to cause an uproar - and that goes for both the liberals and conservatives. I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if I post a link to Ed, or Maddow or Moore, the right will come out slugging. I suspect that Shirley knew, before she posted, what the reaction would be. We all (both sides) need to ask ourselves if we're really so hungry that we need to eat just any old bait. JMHO

bluedahlia

Medigal, that was very interesting.  "freedom of Speech" would be the undoing.  To me, that means you (general you) are your (general your) own worst enemy.  Beck is a prime example!

Medigal

Blue:  Yes!  Beck is a prime example!  Whether he knows it or not, "he" is becoming the enemy he wants us to fear!  He has the freedom to stir up people and yet tell them to not revolt but to hoard food etc. etc.  He urges the WH to call him and tell people he is wrong about his info but yet they ignore him so as not to give him credance and they know he has "freedom of speech".  I think a lot about what that Russian told us when I hear Beck before I can change the station.  There is a lot of "truth" in many of the things he says about what is going on but while Obama is still President there is not much we can do about it.  What Obama wants for our country and what people like myself want are much different.  However, he was elected and I do not like the way many speak about him and his family.  I believe we owe respect to the Office he holds.

crazy4carrots

Going to change the topic here:

Some of us are old enough to remember the days when we felt fairly sure that what we read in the newspapers or what we heard on TV or radio news was accurate, because journalists and broadcasters had a responsibility to report the truth.

The entertainment industry, the U.S. Supreme Court, the proliferation of TV networks and, most of all, the internet (where an ever-increasing number of users get their "news") has changed all that.  There is no guarantee that what we view is the truth.  More often, it is merely opinion, or highly-edited tape, or outright lies on blogs that purport to tell the truth -- at least the way the bloggers would like it to be known.

The internet is a wondrous thing.  When I lived in England, phone calls home to Canada were outrageously expensive, and letters took at least 6 days to arrive.  I was thinking last evening how wonderful it would have been to have instant communication with my friends and relatives.

But one thing I hate about the internet is that too often, opinions are touted as fact, and then are spread far and wide.  

Medigal, you have your opinions of what this world is coming to.  I have my own opinions, and it's becoming apparent that mine don't always agree with yours!  I worry about a lot of things.  I particularly worry about fearmongers and conspiracy theorists, most of whom have their own agenda.  I worry that the middle class (you know, those folks who work hard and help keep the economy running and contribute to their communities and support each other and are loyal citizens who pay taxes to ensure their communities are safe and thriving) is being decimated. I'm pretty sure it isn't the dreaded "communists" who are responsible.  Do some reading, and look at the agendas of some of the newly elected legislators.  It would seem that, by their very actions once in office,  the destruction of the middle class is the goal of those who are beholden to their corporate donors and lobbyists (legalized bribery).

Believe it or not, the U.S. is still the richest country in the world by any standards.  Those "communists" don't have a snowball's chance in h*ll of tearing the country apart and destroying its economic structure.  The country is made up of individual citizens, but those citizens have less and less power, and less and less freedom -- judging by many of the new laws I'm seeing enacted.

Because I don't agree with your summation, please don't say it's because I have my head in the sand.  That's an insult although I doubt you meant it that way.  Those of us to the left of centre actually DO read, and DO worry.  Some of us are fiscally conservative and socially liberal.  Some of us are the opposite.   If you want to find a forum to discuss things with people who agree with your point of view, I understand.  But I hope you will stay with us and discuss things over which we can share opinions which don't have anything to do with doom and gloom.  Like what's for dinner!

bluedahlia

Where's that "like" button Linda.

3monstmama

The situation in Japan is heartbreaking.  Someone mentioned the discrimination experienced by people after the atomic bomb.  Years ago I read a novel in translation about that very topic called "black rain," by Matuji Ibutse  It was basically written from the perspective of a man trying to explain the expereinces of himself and his family and how there was nothing wrong with his niece and what a great girl she was even though they had all been caught in the blast.   I read it when I was supposed to be studying to take grad school tests and still remember how drained I felt when I put it down.

As for mocking, oh please.  How many times I have read snide comments here declaring Obama to be "on vacation" during all these world events?  Vacation?  To my mind vacation is say, hanging at one's summer home or maybe ranch.  Business travel---as anyone who does it regularly knows well---is NOT a vacation.

Do we really not know the difference between a state visit and a vacation? Do we really not understand that international travel for a president is planned a year in advance, that it involves thousands of people and dollars, that the planning on behalf of the hosting country is huge?  Do we not get what impact it would have on our relations with other nations if we just didn't show up?  On a vastly simplified level, Imagine you invite a new friend to dinner.  And you spend a FORTUNE getting the house cleaned and buying the best things for dinner.  And when dinner is almost on the table, friend calls and says they can't make it.  What does it do to your friendship? 

Do we really not get that the stinky part of being president is that you have to be able to multi-task to a degree that would cause most of our little heads to explode [and I mean every modern President from Ford to Carter to Reagan to Bush 1 to Clinton and Bush2 and Obama].  There are always huge horrid events going on in the world all at the same time.  Mostly we little people  just don't pay attention because these events only fill up the our local headlines for a week max.  [Two weeks after the main event, how much coverage do you see of the situation in japan on the front page of papers?  yet the crisis continues. . . .]  But those we have elected to run the nation, they have to pay attention to all the balls in the air.  And that includes thinking long term about being friends with Brazil where there is oil especially as all our stomachs lose the taste for nuclear energy even as we deal with uprisings in Libya or meltdowns in Japan. Honestly, I would have expected Bush2 to continue his traveling to other countries were this all on his watch.

That freedom of speech would be our "undoing" is a classic argument of those who oppose freedom of speech and who can't conceive that people can disagree and still, after discussion has ended, allow the majority to do what the majority wants and move ahead. 

crazy4carrots

Pressing the imaginary Like button, 3mons!

rosemary-b

Linda and 3monstasmom

Like

1Athena1

"like" "like" "like" "like" and "like"!!

(Five previous posts)

Medigal

Ladies:  Before I take leave of this "subject" where we are just spinning our wheels, I want to make sure you understand that this is NOT about a fear of the "Communists are coming".  If you have misunderstood my concerns, we will just let it be. 

3monts:  In sharing my "Freedom of Speech" discussion with the Russian I was NOT trying to use it as an argument because I oppose freedom of speech.  HE was just trying to advise us what freedom of speech can  do to a country.  I am certainly NOT against freedom of speech.  How many times have you read my retorts to Melissa because I was avidly against not being able to post what I wanted to as long as it was not abusive etc.  Freedom of speech is what makes us the country we are.   

I am sorry for the misunderstandings about what I post.  I will now be happy to allow the majority to do what the majority wants and move ahead.  I will not respond to any more posts on this subject.  Majority rules.

rosemary-b

I think there are a lot of us who think that there are forces who are out to destroy the way of life that we enjoy in this country. I think there is a BIG disagreement as to who those forces are. I tend to believe that it is those who are slashing progams for the poor and middle class while giving tax breaks to big business. Others disagree.

Some people see conspiracies in everything and their paranoia is fueled by talk of Communists or community organizers or grassy knolls or fake moon landings or whatever. I see most of these as way too complicated to pull off. It seems to me that conspiracy talk is a good way to distract people from what is really going on. We are all losing government services and while cutting the size of government is good in theory, in  practice it means only one Air Traffic Controller at busy airports overnight; less road repair; prisons and State Police Posts closing. All of this is happening now and all of this will affect all of us, not just those who abuse the system.

1Athena1

It means that when disasters like Katrina happen - or Japan- a downsized government is no longer able to provide the succor needed and chaos, suffering and death ensue.

But in a broader, more general sense, empires like ours usually implode. We may very well be destroyed by our own folly. Alexis de Tocqueville always thought that this would happen as soon as the moneymen were allowed to take over. I don't have the answer, but too much freedom has one thing in common with totalitarian oppression: the total absence of fairness.

pip57

"Alexis de Tocqueville always thought that this would happen as soon as the moneymen were allowed to take over."

I truly believe that this is the truest statement of all.  There are so many conspiracy theories and fear campaigns that have everyone fighting among themselves.  But in the background, the "moneymen" have been taking control of every aspect of our lives.  They are laughing all the way to the bank...with our money.  Worst of all...we are just watching and letting it happen.