I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

Anonymous

I heard on the news the other day that drinking wine during tx may actually be good for you.  I'm going to google that right now and see if I can find it. 

Here's two articles:

http://www.themoneytimes.com/featured/20110215/red-wine-effective-breast-cancer-treatmentstudy-id-101701709411.html  

Red wine effective in breast cancer treatment--study

by Jaspreet Virk - February 15, 2011  

Women who are undergoing breast cancer treatment should drink a glass of wine everyday, as it increases the drug's ability to fight cancer, a new study finds.

The research published in the journal 'Cancer Letters,' states that resveratrol, an ingredient found in red wine, boosts the success rate of cancer treatment.

According to the researchers from Cleveland Clinic's Lerner Research Institute, a tumor usually becomes resistant to effects of the drug after a certain period of time, but combining resveratrol with cancer drug rapamycin helps women respond better to treatment.

"If these observations hold true in the clinic setting, then enjoying a glass of red wine or eating a bowl of boiled peanuts - which has a higher resveratrol content than red wine - before rapamycin treatment for cancer might be a prudent approach."-- Dr Charis Eng, lead study author

Resveratrol- rapamycin suppresses cancer cell growth
To reach the findings, a team of researchers led by Dr Charis Eng, studied the effect of resveratrol in combination with drug rapamycin on cancer cells.

In clinical trials, the researchers found that resveratrol suppressed the growth of cancer cells that were resistant to drug.

In fact, resveratrol was twice as effective in combating the growth of cancer cells, than rapamycin alone. Resveratrol blocks the way oestrogen works with DNA in the body of woman with breast cancer.

Dr. Eng stated, "Rapamycin has been used in clinical trials as a cancer treatment. Unfortunately, after a while, the cancer cells develop resistance to rapamycin."

"Our findings show that resveratrol seems to mitigate rapamycin-induced drug resistance in breast cancers, at least in the laboratory.

"If these observations hold true in the clinic setting, then enjoying a glass of red wine or eating a bowl of boiled peanuts - which has a higher resveratrol content than red wine - before rapamycin treatment for cancer might be a prudent approach" he added.

Rapamycin, also called sirolimus, is an immunosuppressant drug that is used to prevent transplant rejection. It is widely used for its anti-tumor properties.

About resveratrol
Resveratrol is a plant antibiotic that is found in red grapes, raspberries, cranberries and peanuts.

Tests have proved that apart from acting as an anti-cancer agent, resveratrol is also effective in treating Alzheimers, and spinal cord injuries.

Further, it lowers blood sugar, increases cardiovascular function, fights fungal and bacterial infections, removes brain plague, offers radiation exposure protection and lengthens the overall life span.

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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/health-fitness/health/Red-wine-boosts-breast-cancer-treatment/articleshow/7501352.cms  

Red wine boosts breast cancer treatment

ANI, Feb 15, 2011, 03.17pm IST
Scientists have discovered that resveratrol - a compound found in red wine - when combined with rapamycin can have a tumour-suppressing effect on breast cancer cells that are resistant to rapamycin alone.

The study, conducted by researchers from Cleveland Clinic's Lerner Research Institute, also indicated that the PTEN tumour-suppressing gene contributes to resveratrol's anti-tumour effects in this treatment combination.

Charis Eng, Chair of the Genomic Medicine Institute of Cleveland Clinic's Lerner Research Institute, led her team to study the effect of combining resveratrol, a chemopreventive drug found in many natural compounds, with rapamycin on breast cancer cells.

The research demonstrated an additive effect between these two drugs on breast cancer cell signaling and growth.

"Rapamycin has been used in clinical trials as a cancer treatment. Unfortunately, after a while, the cancer cells develop resistance to rapamycin," Eng said.

"Our findings show that resveratrol seems to mitigate rapamycin-induced drug resistance in breast cancers, at least in the laboratory. If these observations hold true in the clinic setting, then enjoying a glass of red wine or eating a bowl of boiled peanuts - which has a higher resveratrol content than red wine - before rapamycin treatment for cancer might be a prudent approach."

Rapamycin, an immunosuppressant drug used to prevent rejection in organ transplantation, has been considered for the use of anti-tumour activity against breast cancer.

Resveratrol is a type of polyphenol that is found in the skin of red grapes and is a constituent of red wine, and has been considered for multiple uses regarding cellular therapies.

Despite the potential for tumour suppression, rapamycin's efficacy with respect to growth inhibition differs markedly among various breast cancer cell lines. The effect of resveratrol and rapamycin, alone and in combination, on cell growth of three human breast cancer cell lines was assessed.

Rapamycin, resveratrol, and combinations of these agents inhibited cell growth in a dose-dependent manner. In all three cell lines tested, the presence of low concentrations of resveratrol and rapamycin was sufficient to induce 50 per cent growth inhibition.

Although relatively early, these observations may suggest resveratrol as a powerful integrative medicine adjunct to traditional chemotherapy.

The study has been published in Cancer Letters . Follow us on Twitter for more stories

Anonymous

Shirley - That article only refers to red wine...not white. Regular/daily consumption of white wine is known to contribute to the growth of bc cancer tumors.

Kindergarten

Dear Laura, Thank you so much for that info on the wine, back to red for me. I was on restriction yesterday, so I hope I am off today. I think I am limited to 5 a day now. I so understand because I can get a little snarky and wacky sometimes, one more thing I also believe that it is wrong to delete and I am asking our dear friends on this board not to do it any more. It is best to handle issues on-line face to face. Pushing a button does not solve anything, get your frustrations out by pressing that keyboard, but as always try to be kind about it. Well, I had to say alot because not sure if this will be one of my 5 posts today. God bless you all and have a great day. Kathy

Anonymous

Kinder - You're welcome.

Erica - I feel terrible...I referred to your Opossum as a rodent...my bad! Just read they're actually marsupials! Learn something new every day. How is your little marsupial?

annettek

after once more reading through multiple pages, one thing is apparent- Same thing, different day. It is boring. any healthy discussion of merit soon disintegrates into nothing. i like a debate but this is just a stressor...even boredom can be stressful, which is what sets in after the first 300 comments and actions that confound and enrage or get deleted. It does not matter if you left off at page 100 and now it is 192 or 193...really same stuff. It all resembles an abusive relationship where all involved do their part...the vics actually begin to anticipate or seemingly crave the next blow that will surely come-the "bad" guys happy to comply...and then everyone is shocked when *it* happens...I dunno, I am grateful that this is "virtual" but since stress and boredom are not,  this ain't fun anymore..you all keep on keepin on and knowing nobody who is actively engaged on this thread will miss anyone who leaves that is not one of those makes it easier to find or create another thread-at first my feelings were actually hurt- for not being one of the ones...I guess it is human nature to one be one of the *in* crowd and then thankfully, my nature *woke* me up and I realized that meant I would have to either be an incitee or a victim or part of the greek chorus...none of them fit well on me...peace out

(actually moronic that I even wrote this post but apparently needed to so I won't delete it-that is what brought me to BCO and why I love parts of it...I can vent when i need to and understand it has very little to do with anyone else and a lot to do with me. I embrace my moodiness and weirdness and don't blame a soul on here for it! I know I can be a b*tch or a seeming saint (or obnoxious, witty, boring, friendly, snobby, helpful, know-it-all,etc) -depends what day it is, and guess what? all fit at different times. ..assuming we are all people, i'm thinking that is the case for everyone on here..

Enjoyful

Opossums aren't rodents??  What the....?  

I don't know about sugar feeding cancer, but it's pretty clear that it's not good for us.  It causes inflammation in the body, and there's speculation that inflammation can lead to cancer, so probably best to avoid it.  Let me just finish the Snickers I'm eating and then NO MORE SUGAR for me!  I swear.

Kindergarten - we're ALL snarky and wacky at times.  Sometimes our emotions get the best of us.  

Thanks to Athena for starting the "I've donated..." thread, and thanks Konakat for posting it here!  I wish there was a way to restrict donations for this specific purpose.

E

Edited to add:  I read an article recently about why we don't have a cure for cancer.  In it, the author said that cancer is so unbelievably complicated that each individual case doesn't have just one disease, but potentially thousands.  Gene mutations are one possible cause but nobody knows yet what causes those mutations, so finding the reason for cancer is a lot more complicated than just pointing the finger at sugar. Now, back to my Snickers.

Anonymous

E - About a year b/4 my bc dx, I was very sick and struggling with an unknown illness. Had every test known to mankind done. The only test that came back positive was HIGH levels of INFLAMMATION throughout my frail bod. So I can't help but fear the whole sugar "thing"/connection. No more Snickers for you girl! Did you make the bean recipe yet?

Enjoyful

I haven't made it yet, but my sister picked up the ingredients for me last night.  Can't wait to try it!

lassie11

Laura - if only life were that simple and sugar is the cause of BC. Sadly, life is not that simple and we can all go on eating whatever sugar we want. I think your observation might be more approriate on the entertaining thread here called "Let's conduct our own study on how we got breast cancer". It's at http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/7/topic/695153?page=48#idx_1433

leggo

Thanks hillck!

River_Rat

Annettek, I hope that the site is able to institute a system to stop this - this what should I call it, silliness just doesn't seem to cover it anymore.  Well anyway, I hope whatever it is does get stopped and then I hope I run across you in an interesting thread.  I've enjoyed your posts.  And who is gonna let me know when I make a terrible typo (Photobucker)?  

Peace and hugs. 

BarbaraA

Annette and FloralGal, I will miss you and will look for you elsewhere.

bluedahlia

Sugar can't be that bad, or they wouldn't sing about it.

River_Rat

Oops, FloralGal, sorry I missed that you were leaving.  I hope that things settle down and that I see you in an interesting thread in the future.

Anonymous

lassie - No one said sugar causes cancer. And no one is telling you what to eat or not eat. But since some research indicates it can contribute, I choose to believe that better safe than sorry is a good thing. I am blown away by the fact that simple and genuine suggestions and information gets blown out of proportion here. I guess erring on the side of caution isn't practiced as much as I thought. Please let your defenses down. If you disagree, that's fine, but realize that everyone doesn't share your opinion.

And btw...I did post in that "entertaining thread" about how I got bc. I'm convinced it's because when I was a kid, I stored Ken on top of Barbie (face to face) in my Barbie Doll case.

ananda8

LauraGTO,

Bromelain (a derivative of pineapple) will greatly reduce inflammation.  If one is on blood thinners one should not take it but other than that it does not appear to have side effects.  You can go to PubMed and find out more.

One should check with one's doctor, though. (edit to add reminder)

Enjoyful

Oh crap, I HUNG a Barbie doll just to scare my sister.  It all goes back to  Barbies.

River_Rat, at least you didn't type Photophucker.  That would have been BAD.  hehehehe

E

Anonymous

notself - Thanks so much...I will look into it. Heck...what do I have to lose.

E - Too funny! Hanging Barbie...that sounds like something I would have also done. Sibling rivalry, at its best. I also attribute my bc to the fact that when we were kids, my sister had a pet mouse. She was real stingy with it and wouldn't let me hold it. One day when she wasn't home, I took it out of its cage and was petting it. The darn mouse jumped out of my hand, hit the floor and died. I WAS HORRIFIED. I panicked. I laid it in the bottom of the cage. My sister came home, saw her mouse was dead and let out a blood curdling scream. I freaked...and said it must have died from eating too much. OMG...I had nightmares for weeks. When we got older, I told her the truth. To this day, she still says "I still cannot believe you killed Winky". Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Anonymous

notself wrote:

Bromelain (a derivative of pineapple) will greatly reduce inflammation.  If one is on blood thinners one should not take it but other than that it does not appear to have side effects.  You can go to PubMed and find out more.

Is that the same chemical in raw pineapple that keeps gelatin from setting up?  If so, whether the pineapple is raw or canned might make a big difference in the benefits you would get from eating it.

Alpal

I remember those warnings about fresh pineapple in jello! Always wondered about that.

BarbaraA

I take bromelain along with Wobenzyme for my early stage arthritis. They really work for me. Love fresh pineapple, too.

AnnNYC

Yes, PatMom -- that's exactly it!  The enzyme in the fresh fruit "digests" the gelatin and keeps it from setting -- the high heat of the canning process destroys a lot of the enzyme.

The powdered bromelain sold as a supplement comes from the rest of the pineapple plant (leaves, stems) -- I think because it's more profitable for growers to sell the fruit as fruit and then also be able to sell the leaves and stems.  There are different kinds of bromelain enzymes in the fruit versus stems and leaves, so it can't hurt to take both the supplement and fresh pineapple.

My plastic surgeon recommended taking bromelain to reduce scarring -- I did take it and healed with minimal scarring.

Lots of nerdy facts here: http://www.jacksbromeliads.com/bromelainbiology.htm

Papayas also have enzymes that break down protein -- papain -- used in meat tenderizers.  But you can get a tenderizing effect by marinating meat with fresh papaya or fresh pineapple.

Enjoyful

You killed Winky?!  Don't go near Erica's possum!  Hahaha.  Rodents are so quick and have a predisposition to commit suicide by skydive.  My hamster tried, my guinea pig tries; it's a wonder they're still around as a species.  Accidents happen, though.  The Rodent Gods forgive you.

I probably got cancer because I accidentally cut my infant daugter's finger while trying to trim her nails.  I still haven't forgiven myself for that.

ananda8

I had aches and pains and could barely move.  I blamed Arimidex.  I was in a health food store and saw Bromelain and thought, "what the heck".  My aches went away in two days.  It also helps with inflammation and my oncologist remarked on the quality of my blood panel. 

I do not take it every day, just when I feel achy.  Bromelain also improves peristalsis and I use it instead of laxatives.  It seems to work.

Please check with your doctor before taking it since, like all anti-inflammatories, it increases the possibility of bleeding.

Enjoyful

Notself -

Bromelain helped with your aches?  I'll have to try it.  The Arimidex is killing me and the doctor's adding Celebrex to oxycodone to help.  I'll have to try it and see if it works.  What dosage do you take?

My blood panels are fine, all within normal levels, but I'll try anything if it helps with the pain!

E

Alpal

I shut my daughter's hand in the car door and still have nightmares about the expression on her face through the window. Then I had to take her to the emer. room and confess what I had done. No wonder I have cancer. Pay back is hell.

ananda8

enjoyful,

I take one capsule a day.  You should see the difference in just a couple of days.  You may be able to cut back on your pain prescriptions. Just type Bromelain into the search function of PubMed and you will be surprised at its uses. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16539815

Efficacy and tolerance of an oral enzyme combination in painful osteoarthritis of the hip. A double-blind, randomised study comparing oral enzymes with non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs.

Klein G, Kullich W, Schnitker J, Schwann H.

Rehabilitation Centre for Cardiovascular and Rheumatic Diseases, Saalfelden, Germany.

Abstract

OBJECTIVE: The objective of this study was to establish the non-inferiority of an oral enzyme therapy (Phlogenzym-(PE)) as compared to the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) diclofenac (DC) in patients with osteoarthritis (OA) of the hip.

 It also appears to have an anti-cancer affect.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20848558

Pineapple bromelain induces autophagy, facilitating apoptotic response in mammary carcinoma cells.

Bhui K, Tyagi S, Prakash B, Shukla Y.

Proteomics Laboratory, Indian Institute of Toxicology Research/Council for Scientific & Industrial Research, Lucknow, India.

Abstract

Bromelain, from pineapple, possesses potent anticancer effects. We investigated autophagic phenomenon in mammary carcinoma cells (estrogen receptor positive and negative) under bromelain treatment and also illustrated the relationship between autophagy and apoptosis in MCF-7 cells. MCF-7 cells exposed to bromelain showed delayed growth inhibitory response and induction of autophagy, identified by monodansylcadaverine localization...

Bren-2007

Alpal .. I did the same thing with my little son's foot.  It still hurts me to think about it.  Poor baby.

I have happy news .. my son submitted his thesis today in physics.  The orals are in two weeks.  Please keep your fingers crossed for him!!

hugs,

Bren

Anonymous

Suicide by skydive...HA-HA! But still...

The stories above are cracking me up! Sad and scary, but funny none the less. And yes, the pay back IS hell. lol

My Mom and I both have mild arthur-itis...I have refused to take a synthetic big-pharm drug. The Bromo seems to be an effective, natural alternative. It will be interesting to see if it works. Thanks for the info.

Medigal

annette:  If you find this thread so boring, why don't you introduce a topic you think will perk it up?  We can't know what everyone wants.  I love discussing politics, religion, taxes, finances, and even medical stuff.  My food tastes makes Mylanta a high seller on the shelves so I need to forego good. If you truly want to participate, imo, you should pop in with something you think will be interesting to discuss.  Maybe you just didn't get enough fried cow brains for breakfast and that is why you are in your mood to criticize.  Criticism can be good if it opens the doors to better communication.  So have at it!