I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

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  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited February 2011

    ....wait, don't you want to read the links?

    How convenient, Worldwatcher. Don't forget to close the truth when you leave.

  • worldwatcher
    worldwatcher Member Posts: 205
    edited February 2011

    Athena

    I run off because I have a life.  BC aside.  I came back to look for your sources, however this is 2011 and  the sources posted have nothing to do with the fact that the US is dependent on other countries for energy sources when had the environmentalists allowed it, the US could be much more independent.

    When we are all paying $5-$8/gallon for gas, I'll check back to see how much of that is Bush/Cheney's fault on this thread.

    Bye.

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited February 2011

    res ipsa loquitur

    ("the thing speaks for itself")

    Brussels sprouts, anyone?

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited February 2011

    I'm on a strict cookie and pizza diet.  My oncologist wants me to gain 20 pounds.  Isn't that a nice problem to have?  HA!

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited December 2012
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2011

    A "feel good" story.  It takes a LOT of dedication and time to achieve this goal.  I'm sure these teachers receive their reward from seeing the students excel.  I wonder if union members would be so available if they were not compensated for their time.

    http://blackamericans.com/blogs/news/archive/2010/04/12/urban-chicago-charter-school-has-perfect-college-acceptance-rate.aspx 

    BlackAmericans.com : Urban Chicago Charter school has perfect college acceptance rate   Top news stories personally selected by the publishers for their relevance to the Black American community.

    Urban Chicago Charter school has perfect college acceptance rate

    In Chicago, the graduation rate for African-American boys is about 40 percent, and only about half of all students are accepted to some form of college. The chances of young black men going to college - particularly young men from the poorest neighborhoods - are not good.

    But the Urban Prep charter school, located in the city's tough Englewood neighborhood, has produced a very different statistic. In March, this school, which is made up of young African-American men, announced that all 107 boys in its first graduating class have been accepted to a four-year college. Just 4 percent of those seniors were reading at grade level as freshmen.

    It's a remarkable achievement for any urban high school, but particularly one with a population that some people are inclined to write off. It has educators examining what aspects of the school are responsible - and how replicable they are.

    Some elements are easy to quantify: an extended school day that means students have an additional 72,000 minutes in school each year, a double period of English, and required extracurriculars and public service.

    But many more elements seem embedded into a culture that is based on four R's, as founder and CEO Tim King describes it: ritual, respect, responsibility, and relationships.

    "I say we give [the students] shields and swords," Mr. King says. "The swords are hopefully this great education. They know how to read and write and add.... Equally important, and perhaps more important, are these shields: resiliency, self-confidence, self-awareness.... Hopefully we have instilled these things, really woven them throughout the curriculum."

    Even small things help, says King: For instance, the students are addressed formally, using their last name, and they wear coats and ties. (The young men swap their red ties for red-and-gold-striped ones when they're accepted to college.)

    The school of about 450 students is in a neighborhood where violence is pervasive, and many students have to cross gang territory every day. It's thus crucial for the school to offer an oasis of relative calm.

    "For us, it's not just about teaching new vocabulary words. We really do have to understand what is going on with this student outside school," King says. That means faculty members develop close relationships with students and are available by phone on evenings and weekends. Often, they provide help on issues that seem to have nothing to do with school: homelessness, family tensions, or money problems.

    When his mother died this year, Cameron Barnes came to school the next day. "It was like family to me," says the senior, who plans to attend the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Since her death, Cameron has been largely responsible for his household and is the only one who can drive. But he hasn't lost his focus on college.

    "I don't want to be on the street," he says.

    Cameron was inspired by an older cousin who graduated from college. But for many students here, the teachers and members of the administration are the first positive male role models they've had - and the first college graduates they've seen. The faculty and administration are weighted heavily black and male.

    The No. 1 criterion in hiring is that teachers believe in the mission, says King, who notes that some of the most successful teachers have not been black men. But having those role models is important, he adds. "None of us are particularly shy about sharing with students our life stories," he says.

    The most notable aspect of Urban Prep's culture is its focus on college, an emphasis that infuses every aspect of the school - from an achievement-oriented creed that students recite daily to the framed acceptance letters that decorate the walls.

    "Every single adult in the building - from the director of finance that handles payroll to the CEO to all the teachers - has a very clear understanding that our mission is to get students to college," says Kenneth Hutchinson, the school's director of college counseling.

    "We start in the freshman year," adds Mr. Hutchinson, who grew up in Englewood. "It's not about helping them fill out applications; it's about building strong applicants."

    Senior Milan Birdwell says he always knew he wanted to go to college, but he had no idea how he would get there. When he transferred to Urban Prep as a sophomore, he had a grade-point average of 1.6. Since then, he has raised it to 3.04 and posted a respectable score of 21 (out of a possible 36) on the ACT. "It's like someone opened a door, and behind that door is a future," he says.

    Milan has been accepted to five colleges and is waiting to hear from the University of Rochester in New York - his top choice.

    The success that Urban Prep has seen so far can be replicated, King believes. Pedro Noguera, a professor at New York University who has been researching single-sex black schools, concurs.

    "What this school shows is that under the right conditions, black males can thrive. They can be very successful," Professor Noguera says. The key to its success isn't that it's all-male, he adds. It's "the attention they pay to teaching."

    Urban Prep is already expanding. Last year, it opened a campus in East Garfield Park - an African-American neighborhood on Chicago's West Side. This fall, it will open a third campus in the South Shore neighborhood.

    Still, certain aspects could be tough to replicate on a large scale. Like most charter schools, Urban Prep raises a sizable amount of its budget (about 20 percent) privately. It operates outside union rules and requires an enormous time commitment from its teachers.

    Teaching there is incredibly rewarding, says Eric Smith, the head of the English department, but isn't for everyone. "There is an emotional cost," he says. "We're now surrogate [family] to almost 500 young men. It's hard finding a balance."

    Despite the school's success, some challenges remain. While test scores have improved considerably - Urban Prep ranked third out of Chicago's 98 high schools for growth, according to one model - King would like them to improve more. The average ACT score is about 17 - higher than the district average for African-American boys, but lower than he'd like.

    Most important, King says: College graduation, not admission, is the goal. The school is doing what it can to prepare students for the leap they'll make when they move to a college campus. For one thing, most students participate in at least one summer college program. Also, counselors will be assigned to all graduates to help them over the next few years.

    "It will be very hard for them, which is why we want to have this support piece in place so students don't give up," says King.

    The 100 percent acceptance "is a big deal," he adds. "But we don't consider it a completion of our mission. We consider it a milestone.... We're supposed to make sure that they finish college."

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2011

    I think I'll have some spaghetti with shrimp that I made last night.  I'll have to remember to buy some brussel sprouts.

  • Wabbit
    Wabbit Member Posts: 1,592
    edited February 2011

    "A cat that is not neutered can produce hundreds of cats.  If you do not take it to the Humane Society you are part of the problem" 

    Erica ... you are 100% correct about that.  Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.  The food on my porch is to make friends with them so I can get them in a carrier.  Then they go to my vet for spay/neuter and shots.  I've been able to place 4 in good homes with family members/friends, a mother cat and kittens went to the Humane Society; and the cat I was talking about was more than half wild and took a bit longer.  He ended up doing a complete switch from terrified of people to a purry lapcat kind of guy and stayed with me ... indoors.  I will always wonder what the 'story' of his previous life was.

    The possums and raccoons have food radar ... they seem to know the minute food appears even if there hasn't been anything there for months. 

    Athena ... I went awwww at your picture too.  But I was typing my post and didn't see it until afterwards.  The Rabbit is still on restriction so I have to limit what I comment on. 

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited February 2011

    Rabbit, I remember all too well. Those days go by sloooowly, and five posts is nothing on a thread this great!

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2011

    Good for you Wabbit !!   WOW !! WE AGREE !!!

     I live in an area with a large population of feral cats.  These cats are very hard to "catch" (unless they have kittens in your yard) and the Humane Society here where I work has had very little luck in "domesticating" them.  And we do have wonderful foster homes.  I cannot get near the one or 2 that stray in my yard.

    The H.S  made a decision to set traps, catch the cats, neuter them, give them shots and release them back in the wild where they came from.  I don't think I agree with that. Ever hear of that ?

    Did any of you animal lovers see the poor frightened camel sliding around on the ice in Madison yesterday?  I guess Jon Stewart thought it would be cute to compare Madison with Egypt.  I guess since it was a lefty doing the deed, it was OK.  I have yet to read of any outcry's of animal abuse

    I can post a u-tube if anyone wants, but it is very hard to watch

  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited October 2012

    I tried googling this youtube but didn't find anything.

    My kitty is also a rescue....we found her living in our shed. Not sure how I feel about the HS having them fixed and releasing them. I have to mull that over for a while.

  • otter
    otter Member Posts: 6,099
    edited February 2011

    Re:  "The H.S  made a decision to set traps, catch the cats, neuter them, give them shots and release them back in the wild where they came from.  I don't think I agree with that. Ever hear of that?"

    Yes -- That's called a "TNR" = trap, neuter, release program.  TNR programs are wildly popular in some parts of the country, but less so in others.  As is true for most of what we talk about on this thread, TNR is controversial.

    The proponents make 3 main claims in support of TNR:  1) Cats that have been neutered will not sire or bear kittens, so TNR will decrease the number of cats overall (duh!  Got that one.); 2) Cats that have been neutered are less likely to engage in fighting and other nasty behaviors -- they will be better-socialized (okay, maybe....); and 3) Cats maintain territories, so releasing the newly-neutered cats back to their stomping grounds will allow them to keep other cats away.  The net result is happier but fewer feral cats.

    Opponents of TNR point out that 1) neutered cats are just as likely to maim and kill birds as non-neutered cats, so releasing them does nothing to decrease the impact of feral/wild cats on small wildlife populations.  Some studies have shown that the single greatest threat to songbirds in urban areas is outdoor cats.  Even fat, well-fed cats kill birds and other small animals.  That's what cats do, as long as we allow them to live outside and "act natural."  [Sorry; my bias is showing.]  2) Opponents of TNR also question the paradox of claiming that neutered cats will not fight as much, but they will continue to occupy and defend their territories. 3) Opponents also cite studies that show it would be impossible to trap, neuter, and release enough cats to have a detectable impact on feral cat populations.  TNR programs simply cannot trap the percentage of feral cats needed to make the numbers come out right.  And, 4) some people believe it is more humane to euthanize feral cats than to release them again, where they can starve, be hit by cars, get injured by dogs, catch nasty diseases, etc.

    Most opponents of TNR would prefer to get rid of feral cats entirely, through adoption (placement in homes) if possible but by euthanasia if necessary.  The TNR supporters rebut this approach by saying that removal of a feral cat will just allow another cat to move into that area.

    Of course, the best approach is to treat cats as if they really are domesticated animals.  Feed them, care for them, neuter them, vaccinate them, and keep them indoors.  There isn't a (domesticated) cat in the North America that died because its owner made it stay inside instead of allowing it to roam the neighborhood.

    Round and round and round we go.

    otter

  • IronJawedBCAngel
    IronJawedBCAngel Member Posts: 470
    edited February 2011

    There are several communities that deal with their feral cat population by spaying/neutering and releasing.  Today is National Spay/Neuter Day so many vets and shelters are having specials on their services.  Back when I had an income, I would capture stray barn cats and take them in to be sterilized.  It is amazing how fast the population will multiply when they are not spayed and neutered.

    The possum discussion must have been a premonition for today.  Opened up the door earlier to find a possum crawling out from underneath our deck.  Fortunately, Chandler was not with me.  I don't like their tails either, creep me out!

    I wonder if possums like brussel sprouts!

  • Alpal
    Alpal Member Posts: 1,785
    edited February 2011

    I have read about the programs that catch, fix and release feral cats. I'm not sure how I feel about it either. We don't seem to have a feral cat problem here. Thank heavens!

  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited February 2011

    I wish the possums, snakes, cats and dogs would eat all the moles in my yard.  I would put brussel sprouts in the holes if something would eat the moles.  Tank just tears up the yard trying to get at them and leaves a big mess behind him!  More holes to trip over.

    Bren

  • Wabbit
    Wabbit Member Posts: 1,592
    edited February 2011

    Erica ... TNR (trap, neuter, release) has been very effective with stray cat colonies.  The organizations that do this have volunteer caretakers for the colony ... they feed them and keep watch for new cats, sick cats, etc.

    The idea behind it is not only saving the lives of the cats but also that if you just remove the existing colony new cats move in and you are soon right back where you started.   This way you have a stable population of spayed/neutered and healthy cats ... and since they are not making kittens and tend to run off newcomers it does not increase.

    It needs people willing to feed and provide shelter and health care for them.   Win/win where it can be made to work IMO.

    Always glad to talk to another cat rescue person!  Wish I could do more but every little bit helps I hope.

    Edited to add:  Several folks answered this before I got it submitted.  You guys are speedy.  Plus hubby interrupted me ... so I'll blame the slowness on him :)

    For what it's worth ... I personally strongly approve of this program if it is done right. 

  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited October 2012

    ...been mulling and thanks otter, for explaining the program. It kind of amounts to a land version of "catch and release" fishing. I've never agreed with that either, but then I guess fish don't have the brain pan to realize what's going on. To me though, an animal is an animal.

  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited February 2011

    I love kitties and would adopt another one if DH would let me but he says one is enough. I regularly give $ to the SPCA shelter here which has a no-kill policy.

  • otter
    otter Member Posts: 6,099
    edited February 2011

    Bren, are you sure you don't have armadillos?  (Is there an "e" in the plural form of that word, like in "potatoes"?)  The morning after we've had an armadillo go through, our yard looks like it's had land mines exploded.

    BTW, I love 'possums.  I really do.  I found a baby 'possum in our yard once -- it was all head, with huge eyes and ears and a gaping mouth full of teeth.  And, could that little monster hiss! I brought it inside, warmed it up, fed it baby 'possum food (as per a hasty Google search of wildlife sites)... and then momma 'possum returned to retrieve her offspring.  The momma was in a tree outside the back porch, and baby could tell she was there.  The baby went nuts in the box, scrambling around and chirring.  I took it outside and set it down where momma could see it.  An hour later, they were both gone.  (I didn't want to watch, just in case the one in the tree was a big male looking for a snack.)

    I also pulled my ex-dog off an adult 'possum once.  She had killed it for sure -- there was blood in its mouth, its eyes were half-closed and full of dirt, and it was limp.  So I picked it up by its tail (I know, bad idea), and carried it off into the woods.  I knew there was something strange happening when I felt the tail coil around my wrist.  So I put it in a pile of leaves behind a tree, and 10 minutes later Mr./Ms. 'possum stood up and tip-toed off into the woods.

    Okay... If you have horses, or llamas (I think), or even, ahem... otters:   Keep those 'possums away.  Opossums carry a parasite called "Sarcocystis neurona", which causes EPM = equine protozoal myeloencephalitis.  It's a brain disease that will kill a horse (or an otter).  Opossums are the definitive hosts for S. neurona, and they shed the parasite oocysts in their poop.  Feed and water get contamined with the 'possum poop; horses ingest the oocysts; and the horses get sick.  Really bad problem.  It has killed many dozens of sea otters on the west coast of California in the past few years.  Nobody knows for sure how the otters are getting it, but "they" think the oocysts are carried downstream in water and are being concentrated in the mollusks the otters eat.  :(

    Gotta go.  I still haven't done those taxes.

    otter

    [P.S.:  References for the S. neurona stuff will be provided upon request, but not until I get this tax thing finished.]

  • Alpal
    Alpal Member Posts: 1,785
    edited February 2011

    Another reason not to touch possums!

  • IronJawedBCAngel
    IronJawedBCAngel Member Posts: 470
    edited February 2011

    Catch and release in the fishing population is also a highly respected practice.  Too many species have been over fished, and it helps to keep them from getting depleted.  My Dad practiced it many years ago, as does my husband now. The fish my husband releases today may be the fish a young child catches tomorrow.  By the way, if any of you ever have the opportunity to participate in "Casting for Recovery", it's an awesome program for BC survivors.

    My housecats stay indoors, all day, everyday.  However, my barn cats performed important work by keeping rodents of all kinds, and other undesirables away.  They did a great job of keeping the moles out of my yard also.  Yes, the occasional song bird would meet their demise, but cats, even feral cats, are part of this grand circle of life.  They perform important services in keeping the rodent population down wherever they live.  I would much rather see the TNR programs than have them euthanized.

  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited October 2012

    I do believe catch and release was banned somewhere in Europe because of it being inhumane. I think their argument was that it's only effective if you do it correctly. As would the TNR program only be effective if everyone did their part. Some still use barbed hooks, leave the fish to struggle to exhaustion and simply throw injured fish back into the water. Like any program, human nature is the weakest link. Not everyone follows the rules. This cat program has become quite a thinker for me....can't quite come to an opinion.

  • River_Rat
    River_Rat Member Posts: 1,724
    edited February 2011

    Otter, is the possum parasite fatal to children also?  I never realized how dangerous it is out here in the suburbs.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2011

    The feral cat colony I am taking about is a fairly large area, mostly forest.  I don't believe anyone is looking out for them.  The couple I have witnessed are FAT and run when they see me.  Yes, cats are responsible for declining song bird populations. 

    Everything I have read regarding opossums -they are relatively healthy animals.  They have a natural immunity to rabies and distemper.  They are the oldest mammal on earth - they roamed with the dinosaurs.

    I don't know why so many judge them by their tails !!!!

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited February 2011

    (Oops...response to Gracie's comment that she cannot reach an opinion. Thread moving too quickly again!) 

    ...nor can I. I have a problem with regulating animal behavior. The way Otter described the controversy, it seems as though some want cats to not be cats. These are natural predators and they should be respected as such. Some play with the kill. It seems cruel, but in the wild, playing with kill is also a way of learning how to hunt. Dogs, too, kill birds, but it is all part of the natural cycle of life and death (my dogs used to leave bits of bird body parts in the kitchen, which was a bit much, I grant you....what is incredible is that we still had birds in the garden to begin with).

    On the African Savannah, the theory goes, lions and other major predators essentially control the population growth of the grazing animals such as antelope and wildebeest, thus ensuring that there are enough grasslands to feed those who survive. It seems brutal, but there is a strange fairness about it all. It is only when humans get involved with their homes and settlements that things are upset.

  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited October 2012

    The "Circle of Life" song just popped into my head.  Hakuna Matata!

  • AnnNYC
    AnnNYC Member Posts: 4,484
    edited February 2011

    hi Athena -- the difference with feral cats released into the existing wildlife of North America (as with any "exotic" released into a new ecosystem) is that the rest of the wildlife/ecosystem did not evolve alongside feral cats and these "exotics" don't have a defined niche in the ecosystem.  They can often take over, or do a lot of damage on the way -- killing songbirds, and out-competing the "local" predators of songbirds.

    Just my two cents -- no time to write more!

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited February 2011

    Ah, yes - you are correct. Exotic plant life can do great harm too. In a former life as a journalist I remember writing environmental stories about multimillion dollar cleanups of lakes that had been overtaken by exotic plant life which had deprived the water of oxygen and starved the fish to death. I used to know all the names of these strange things....

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2011

    Here is camel video.   I would like to ask Why animal abuse charges have not been filed, is it because Jon Stewart is a lefty and lefties are exempt no matter what?  Like taking over the capital, trashing the place, littering, smashing windows, smashing furniture.  The place stinks and doesn't have a single public toilet that is not overflowing garbage everywhere.

    Warning - this video is very disturbing

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/116628108.html

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2011

    No Kill Shelters sound good, but I don't agree, Barbara.  Your money would be better sent to local Humane Society, ASPCA, Humane Society of United States.

    There are some animals that in spite of the best efforts of trained professionals are NOT adoptable. There are 3 no kill shelters around where I live.  There are animals that have been there 3 years.   When the shelter has not found a home after 6 months, they just transfer the poor animal to another no kill shelter, and on and on.   Cats cannot stand the prolonged confinement.  They start to pull their hair out, it is terrible thing to see.  Some of the dogs are dangerous, because they have been used for dog fighting !

    Rabbits do not handle the shelter environment well and are not easy to adopt.  They get easily stressed in a loud as in barking dog environment

    You really are not helping animals by supporting a "NO KILL' shelter.  The no kill shelters are not well run, they do not even neuter the animals - they don't have the funds.  They just make the people who adopt the animal promise to neuter it.

    I know "No Kill" sounds wonderful but it is a nightmare for certain animals

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