I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

bluedahlia

I guess today's not the day.



Going to spend the morning with my grandson. See ya'll later!

Wabbit

PatMom ... Actually Planned Parenthood does charge for their services.  It is on a sliding scale based on income however.   I will pass on your 'shut up and go someplace else and pay for it yourself' Republican response.

Perhaps you would also like to address their resentment over the fact that their Social Security and Medicare contributions are going to pay benefits to spouses who have never worked and paid anything into the system?  This double dipping on one contribution costs taxpayers a whole lot more.  Freeloading is in the eye of the beholder.  Guess it's always a matter of whose ox is being gored.

If we are going to go all dog eat dog - everybody for himself - we will be needing to make a lot of changes.

Lovely world we would create ... NOT.

   

  

Enjoyful

For those of you who want to ban abortion - would you also want to monitor the mother to ensure she does no harm to the fetus in utero?  So that if she smokes, drinks, or has caffeine we can slap her butt in jail?  That's a natural outgrowth of fetal rights.

What's your plan for that?

1Athena1

Wabbit, you say it all with great clarity.

Blue....today is not the day for what (sorry to be nosey...)?

bluedahlia

Athena, yesterday night I wrote.....Maybe we will wake up to peace and harmony.  Seeing as some didn't go to sleep until the wee hours of the morning i.e. some were posting at 4 a.m., today is not that day.

Edited to fix typos........no I am not drunk!

crazy4carrots

But but but ---- wouldn't that constitute government interference in the lives of pregnant women/girls in their pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?  And besides, who's going to pay for all that monitoring?  Seems to me it woud have to be a one-on-one type of monitoring.....and whose taxes are going to pay for THAT?

Pretty difficult to extricate one's social beliefs and desire for less government from reality.  And it always, always amazes me that --almost without exception-- the anti-abortion spokespeople are those representing 49% of the population who cannot have a baby themselves, and who never seem to have an answer about the care of those infants once they're born, or who don't seem to understand the financial logistics of unemployed girls with little education having to take care of a baby, especially when they don't want any part of their taxes going towards that girl and her baby's upkeep.  Third world thinking? 

1Athena1

Ahhh, I see.

Not drunk here either. I have to edit practically all of my posts again and again becuase I have bad eyes and have trouble spotting typos in the small print (something about a rolling astagmus (sp.) ) - and am too lazy to "Preview"!

Hope you are doing well, Blue.

kadeeb

Blue, with the last page of posts, it might be a good idea. I've noticed that some get very lovey and sweet with a few shots.

Enjoyful

But Linda...

It's every fetus's right to be born.  And the uneducated mother must work to support her child, BUT also breast-feed so that the taxpayers don't have to pay for formula, BUT not be able to purchase a breast pump through her health care spending account because we don't want a 'nanny state,' AND take care of her child herself so we don't have to pay for daycare expenses.  It's so simple.

Wabbit

Just for the record ... Planned Parenthood does not receive any federal funds for abortion or anything related to abortion.

The funding being done away with now is for things like breast and cervical cancer screenings, HIV tests, birth control counseling and products.  They are often preferred by young women not just for the lower costs but also because they are very knowledgeable about all the different birth control options and they take the time to give women all their options and explain them in detail.  Something you do not get with today's 5 minute blocks of time allotted to you at most doctor's offices.

Enjoyful

Hey Wabbit -

My understanding is that Planned Parenthood receives federal funds, though doesn't spend them on abortion?  It's splitting hairs, I know, but I'm just trying to get it straight in my head.

E

Anonymous

WhiteRabbit wrote:

PatMom ... Actually Planned Parenthood does charge for their services.  It is on a sliding scale based on income however.   I will pass on your 'shut up and go someplace else and pay for it yourself' Republican response.

I didn't say "shut up", I didn't tell anyone where to go, and I resent you implying that I did.  Those are your words, not mine.  I do think that a controversial entity such as Planned Parenthood should be funded by private contributions, not tax dollars.

I did imply that some women who can afford to pay market price might be more likely to go to private physicians if Planned Parenthood were actually charging "market price" for services to those women rather than rates subsidized by the taxpayers.  Where someone chooses to receive care is totally their decision. 

Enjoyful

PatMom -

Taxpayer dollars aren't used by Planned Parenthood to fund abortions.

1Athena1

And those little pills require access to health care to get a prescription from a doctor who will know enough to assess whether a woman has risk factors like breast cancer and a history of strokes before doling it out. So if everyone has equal access to health care, then and only then will I agree with Laura's comment of 'what's so hard about taking a little pill.'

And this also assumes that no one is raped into pregnancy...a big assumption. So if we are going to stress abstention, we had better ask the rapists to join the campaign, if they pretty please.

Ergo, if we have: health care for all, NO rape and no stupidity (another contributing factor in many unwanted pregnancies, to be sure - there is no denying it), then we can have no abortion. Alas, we live in the real world. I don't like abortion. I am sure that women who have had one probably detest it. But I would prefer to save a mother than kill both mother and fetus by forcing people into back-alley procedures.

lewing

Plus, many young women don't have a personal physician.  I know I didn't until I was well into my 20s.  I relied on Planned Parenthood for Pap smears and birth control advice/prescriptions, and paid a modest fee.  I'm grateful they were there.

L

kadeeb

Did anyone have brussel sprouts for breakfast? Sometimes when we get a little too wound up, a brusel sprouts discussion helps with the tempers and name calling.

Anonymous

Really?  How does that work? 

Doesn't having government subsidies for the basic health care services mean that more of the private donations are able to be funneled toward providing abortions?

PP solicits donations touting their low cost health services.   Are any of those donations then used to fund abortions?  As long as they are not financially separate entities, there is no way to ensure that the government contributions aren't indirectly being used to fund abortions by allowing a greater proportion of private donations to be funneled there.

lewing

No brussel sprouts, but I did have cornmeal pancakes with sliced bananas, macadamia nuts and real maple syrup.  I slice the banana into the pancakes when they're on the griddle, so the slices get all gooey and caramelized when you flip 'em.  (A friend taught me that trick.)

My reward for a chilly 11 mile run this morning!

L

Enjoyful

Yes, Pat, IF donations are not directed toward specific activities, it means that more private donations are funneled toward providing abortions.  Is that your argument against federal funding of Planned Parenthood?  That's a stretch.

kadeeb

Lewing, How dare you tempt us with that breakfast and then tell us the cost was an 11 mile run. I grew up with parents who lived through the depression so it was customary to be told to clean your plate. I obeyed especially when eating out. Come to find out, I was paying for that food twice. Once at the restaurant and again on the track. You go girl! I'm going to do a 10 mile run to that big box store (formal name eliminated for fear that discussion will surface again) and get some potting soil and peet to plant some garden seeds. I'm going to see if I can grow something besides cancer cells. 

Play nice while I'm gone. Will check on you soon as I get back! 

Enjoyful

You ran 11 miles this morning?  You're far tougher than I!

Breakfast foods are the best - particularly pancakes!  How can we work sprouts into our breakfast foods?  Sprouts roasted with sausage?  Sprouts in our omelettes?

lassie11

eleven miles? You ran eleven miles before breakfast in the cold?! You certainly more than deserve that breakfast Lewing. Maybe I will get dressed and go for a walk. Or maybe have another cup of coffee first.

Anonymous

enjoyful wrote:

Yes, Pat, IF donations are not directed toward specific activities, it means that more private donations are funneled toward providing abortions.  Is that your argument against federal funding of Planned Parenthood?  That's a stretch.

Not a stretch at all.  No taxpayer funded abortions means just that.  No up front funding, no back door funding, no sad sad story funding. 

Innocent children should not be subject to the death penalty for being inconvenient, or unplanned or even for the actions of their fathers who are not subject to the death penalty.

Enjoyful

It's not up front or back door funding at all.  If all of the private donors went away, PP couldn't perform abortions since they'd receive only taxpayer funding.  Since private donors haven't gone away, they obviously support abortions, and the federal money is used for other services.  It's as simple as that.

Should innocent fetuses be subjected to an alcohol- or drug- or caffeine- abusing mother?  How far do you want to take fetal rights, Pat?

Anonymous

Should innocent fetuses be subjected to an alcohol- or drug- or caffeine- abusing mother?  How far do you want to take fetal rights, Pat?

Let's start with not murdering them.  There are numerous children in the foster care system because their parents are abusing drugs and/or alcohol, or because their parents committed crimes.  Are you saying we should murder them?  I didn't think so. 

Enjoyful

Not at all.  I'm saying that if you want to prevent women from aborting their fetuses, should they also be monitored to ensure they do no harm to the fetuses?  After all, everything a pregnant woman does affects her baby.  If she does something that results in fetal death, should she be charged for murder?

floralgal

delete

lassie11

Patmom wrote :"No taxpayer funded abortions means just that.  No up front funding, no back door funding, no sad sad story funding."

It's interesting that those who argue that charities rather than tax funded outfits should fund all sorts of things will also argue that charitable funding should only go to those issues of which they approve. You can't have it all ways! Sometimes things you don't like still happen - because clearly,  everyone doesn't agree with you.

Enjoyful

floralgal -

Most of the teachers I've met are very dedicated and do spend a lot of their own time and money to enhance their students' experience.  It takes a special person to succeed as a teacher!

E

Anonymous

If a woman suffers the loss of a pregnancy, that is a horrible tragedy, and we should do all we can to help her.  If that loss is due to intervention by another person with the mother's cooperation, we should treat the mother the way we would treat someone who survives a suicide attempt., with compassion and offers of help to heal. 

The person who performs abortions is a whole different matter.  They should be treated as what they are, someone who profits from murder.  The judicial system in Pennsylvania is currently dealing with the staff of a "clinic" in just that way.