I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

YramAL

Unions, teachers, state and federal employees are the main cause of our county's financial difficulties. Don't you know if you say something over and over enough times it becomes fact???

Mary(being facetious) 

crazy4carrots

Oh my gosh Blue -- I had it removed about 4 years later, and my ILC showed up in the exact same spot as the fibro too.  I've always wondered.....

BTW, for anyone wondering about Wisconsin's "budget crisis", do some research; you'll be surprised at what you discover (or should I say uncover)...

bluedahlia

But Mary, they aren't REAL people.  Maybe they are zombies and don't need a retirement plan or anyone to look after their interests. 

YramAL

Blue-I'm sure they don't need anyone to look after their interests anymore since they are rolling in dough and filthy rich! Especially those teachers! (sarcasm)

Mary 

bluedahlia

Well another day is done and off to bed with me.  Busy three day weekend ahead......YES!!!!!

Wabbit

Isn't it amazing how it is always the people who actually do the work who are the cause of all the problems.  If they would just quit expecting to be treated like human beings instead of working widgets everything would be soooo much better for the fat cats.

I'm proud of the Wisconsin Democrats ... just made a contribution to their cause as a matter of fact.  It's about time they got some backbone and stood up for what they believe in.

You all are making me hungry with all the food talk and candy pictures.  Wonder if Barbara has finished off that box of candy yet?  Must go scrounge around and see if I can find some chocolate ...

ananda8

Everyone should work at WalMart with no benefits because they are not technically "full time" working only a 35 hour week. This will make them true Americans. 

The Heck with Unions. They only built the middle class which has been slowly shrinking as unions are busted up and jobs shipped overseas.  Yeh, all our financial problems are caused by people making a living wage and having basic protections in the workplace.

http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/sep2010/pi20100927_440820.htm

"It's underappreciated, but America's dramatic three decade-plus rise in income inequality was a fundamental economic force behind the 2007 though 2009 implosion in the economy and financial markets. For instance, after remaining relatively stable for much of the postwar period, the share of total income that went to the wealthiest 10 percent of households rose from 34.6 percent in 1980 to 48.2 percent in 2008.

The recession has taken its toll, too. Real median household income dropped by 2.9 percent-from $51,726 to $50,221-from 2008 to 2009, according to the latest American Community Survey by the Census Bureau. Incomes are down about 4 percent since the start of the recession and over the same time period the nation's poverty rate has gone from 12.5 percent to 14.3 percent...

The rise in income inequality is well-documented. Median income began stagnating in the early 1970s, and income inequality started to surge in the early 1980s. The benefits of America's economic growth since then have mostly gone to a wealthy minority, while the majority of workers have seen their earnings stagnate at best and decline at worst. The long-term trend is toward a small group of financiers, chief executives, professional athletes, entertainers, and other earnings titans pocketing much of the wealth generated by society."

What we need is more tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans. We need to bust up unions.  We need to ship jobs overseas.  We need to kill the health care reform.  We need to privatize social security and cut Medicare.  Then America will be as perfect as it was during the Great Depression which was brought to us by that pro-business President, Herbert Hover.  His policies worked then, and they will work now. 

Please note that the quote came from Business Week, one of the most respected business journals.

The sarcasm in this post is used to emphasize that we can't eliminate the deficit by reducing wages and laying people off.  Union busting does neither.

BarbaraA

{{BLUE}} I hate getting tested.

All who think the democrat lawmakers n Wisconsin are doing their job. I disagree.

http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2011/02/wisconsin-unions-democrats.html

lewing

The irony is, Walker's attack on collective bargaining would strip public workers (or at least those public workers who didn't support his campaign) of the right to bargain over everything *except* salaries. Like, you know, how to make their schools and agencies run better and better serve the public. Because, you know, front line workers have absolutely nothing to contribute to such things, which are better handled unilaterally by management. Including folks like Walker's top education staffer, who's 24 years old and has *no* experience in public education. (Rolling eyes.)

1Athena1

Happy Saturday morning to you all! Reading this thread makes me perk up and hopefully muster up the necessary willpower to attend one of my club's most strenuous exercise classes.

>>>>>>I think I see one piece left in Barbara's box, which I will take even though it's rude to take the last piece (shhhhhhh!).<<<<<<<

I have not had those aches and pains that make one wonder, but I suppose we will all have to live with that fear for the rest of our lives. I was not able to finish treatment. The "sob story" I deleted was on this topic.

Hurrah for the Wisconsin Democrats. I wish our people in Washington would show the same spine sometimes. Here in DC, the GOP uses the filibuster (so do the Dems, of course, but not as much or as often). At least in Wisconsin, the Dems actually said "no" and are walking out. The filibuster, on the other hand, is cowardly and underhanded. That and the "secret hold" should be abolished.

rosemary-b

i agree with Athena.

If there are going to be filibusters, then make a Senator get up and talk like they used to, not just threaten to talk. 

As for Wiscnsin, the Democrats are doing the only thing they can do to keep the govorner's unpopular porpopsal to be pushed through in a hurry without public comment. It is obvious from   the demonstrations that this is not popular.

I feel that this is a marvolous opportunity for High School students to see democracy in action. Hurray for the teachers who have taken their studnets to the state capital. Those kids are hooked on politics for life.

Anonymous

White Rabbit (and others) posted: "I'm proud of the Wisconsin Democrats"

I'm curious...Are you girls proud of the mess they left on Thursday?

Although...they did leave some potatoe chips for the clean up crew.

rosemary-b

Laura

You should be proud that nobody has ever had to clean up after you. I don't see the Dumpsters they were supposed to use for their mess, in your picture.

AnneW

So now we're looking for pictures of trash to show who's got more moral fiber? Please.

I'm sure there are abundant photos of messes left behind by Republicans, too. Petty game.

ananda8

There is no trash in the street that I can see from the picture. Those signs looked stacked to me. 

What does the "mess" have to do with the issues?  Your comments are actually a type of fallacy in logic called a Red Herring (A red herring is an argument, given in response to another argument, which does not address the original issue.)

LauraGTO, Your red herring is that if the picture shows what you interpret as trash left by protestors, the trash therefore means that the protestors are wrong to protest.  Your arguement is fishy. 

edit for clarity

lewing

AnneW, it's a well-known fact that Republicans, and especially Tea Party Republicans, NEVER leave a mess.  If trash cans are overflowing, they personally load up their cars with garbage and take it home, where they recycle it.  I know this because I have read it on the interweb.

L

Anonymous

rosemaryb - I AM very proud. 

lewing - You are absolutely correct that it's a well-known fact...not only have I witnessed the lack of trash & disrespect at Republican and Tea Party rallies, but also because I have read it on the interNET.

Gotta leave for a road trip to Madison.

rosemary-b

 Laura

Bring us back more of those  herring ( the red ones).

Also, is your spelling of potato in honor of Dan Quayle, a great American?

BarbaraA

Guess what I am having for dinner? Rubber chicken, mystery potatoes, cold veggies and limp salad. Have to leave soon for a mandatory company retreat for this PM until tomorrow PM. Ugh. At least it is at a resort on the beach.  BUT no time to hang out at the beach. Ugh.

rosemary-b

Laura

Are you bringing trash bags?

rosemary-b

Barbara

It's 25 degrees here and we're expecting 6 inches of snow. I'd rather be where it's warm. but sometimes conferences are no fun. If it helps just think of me in the cold and know at least you're warm.

BarbaraA

Brrrrr, Rosemary, I will think of you and count my blessings.

Anonymous

"I don't see the Dumpsters they were supposed to use for their mess, in your picture. "

Dumpsters cost money, trash disposal costs money.  Did the organizers of the rally pay for and provide for that or do they expect "someone else" to clean up their mess?   If there were no dumpsters provided, those who brought the signs should have taken them with them when they left. 

If you are protesting about the way a state government is dealing with a budget crisis, you lose credibility when you add to that crisis by costing that government money to clean up a mess you create. 

rosemary-b

Laura

I will follow your red herring trail long enogh to say if the picture was not taken before anyone could get to the trash, that is probably a local not state government responsibility.

Back to the topic at hand. The students in Wisconsin are having the best possible lesson in democracy I can think of. I would think this would be right up the Tea Party's alley, people protesting government decisions  they don't agree with.

crazy4carrots

  Patmom wrote:  If you are protesting about the way a state government is dealing with a budget crisis,

So, the Wisconsin government was projected to have a $124M budget surplus this year.  Then Republican Governor Walker came in and within a month, that projection reversed itself and became a $140M shortfall.  Do some research and you'll find out why.

As for democracy -- what happens when those campaigning neglect to tell the populace all that they intend to do once elected?  I think it's called "bait and switch".  Wisconsinites are learning that -- hence their democratic right to make their voices heard loud and clear.

AnnNYC

This Wisconsin stuff is maybe too deeply personal for me to write about.

But I would ask that everyone characterizing the protestors as goons and thugs, and as people somehow "sponging" off the "taxpayers" please consider this:

All public employees in Wisconsin are taxpayers.

Imagine a man whose job it has been for 30 years to work a full day shift AND be on call all through the night to get up and repair hazardous road conditions in all weather conditions (the last time I stayed at this relative's house in Jan 2010, he got a 3 AM call to deal with a broken watermain spilling over a highway in 9-below temps).

Imagine a beautiful brilliant 26-year-old woman who has devoted her education and working life to nursing, who works 12-hour shifts in a neonatal intensive care unit.

Imagine a man who has taught high school chemistry for 30+ years, including AP courses, and contributing his own money to make exciting classroom demonstrations, helping hundreds of kids get into college.

A woman in her 50s like many of us, supporting a teenaged daughter, who works in a city records office.

A woman in her 50s like many of us, a dental hygienist working in a state prison for 25+ years, a job that is the source of health insurance to keep caring for her now "pre-exisiting" conditions -- Crohn's Disease and history of breast cancer.

Multiple these people by 25,000 or so across the state of Wisconsin.

And please note, the state budget was on track for a surplus within this year until Gov. Walker put through 3 unfunded initiatives (tax breaks, an experiment unfunded health savings account initiative, a business incentive plan) that - voila - turned the projected surplus into a projected deficit, to be met by cuts to public employees.  See here: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2011/02/unions_arent_to_blame_for_wisc.html

Anyway, all the people described above are relatives of mine -- one of them even votes Republican -- and they're all hard-working taxpayers who contribute a lot to Wisconsin.

AnnNYC

PatMom -- about signs -- I've been involved in protests where police make everybody put down signs that are attached to sticks, to forestall sticks being used to hit people with -- the way those signs-on-sticks are piled up neatly near entryways makes me suspect that guards instructed people to leave signs-on-sticks there.

covertanjou

JB, isn't Walker a public employee? 

You would think that TPers would be supporting the people protesting.  They too are trying to take their country back. 

lassie11

JBinOK wrote "But then again, if they had the skills to compete in the private sector for their job, they wouldn't be public employees.  Go Walker!"

You are kidding, right? You don't really think that the important jobs done by public service workers are somehow a fallback from something else?! If you have a sound argument against what AnnNYC has written, go for it. With that posting you simply are regurgitating talking point nonsense.

YramAL

Public employees and immigrants have become the scapegoats for a lot of things. The hatred that I see expressed toward them at times is scary.

Stretching this a bit....but kind of like the Jews were the scapegoats for Germany's economic problems prior to WWII.

Mary