I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

IllinoisLady

Athena, John Wayne Gacy was another interesting person.  My brain being what it is I can't now recall whether he was seen as a sociopath or just had some of the tendencies of one.  He was ( if memory serves ) a sexual predator but part of his guise was that he often played a clown for kids functions I believe.  Anyway, he mainly would seek out young gay teens.  When he was done with them, he killed them and buried the majority of his victims in the crawl space of his house.  I think there were at least 33.  I know the number was astounding. 

I think quite a few lives were lost/missing before anyone had the slightest reason to suspect Gacy.  The next door neighbors can have some pretty "wild" things going on.  You never know.

Jackie

suzieq60

Stinking hot here - the pool looks good. Just folded the washing and am contemplating a nap. Salad for dinner so no stress in that area.

I was listening to After the Goldrush (Neil Young) in the car today - I love that man!!! I remember when I first bought the CD and I sat there and cried while I was listening to it - lots of late teen memories there.

lassie11

Suzie - I'll trade you that pool in the hot weather for snow on the highway when I want to drive to the next town tomorrow. There's a chance it will thaw and melt by morning. Hot weather is so much more reliable!

suzieq60

Lassie - we never have snow - it would be very scary trying to drive in it.

Belinda44

"Gun Lovers Freak Over Obama’s Executive Actions"

"......They invoke the Constitution to say Obama is acting like a monarch, but the right-wing bloviators only succeed in revealing their ignorance of history and law, writes Adam Winkler"

"As our first national Gun Appreciation Day arrives (isn’t every day in America Gun Appreciation Day?), it’s worth a closer look at the constitutional arguments made by conservative opponents of President Obama’s gun-control proposals........Conservative blogs and Fox News have been filled with indignant protests over Obama’s “abuse of power” and the manifestation of “tyranny” by the “power-grabbing” president. Sen. Rand Paul went on the Christian Broadcast Network to accuse Obama of acting like a “king or monarch.....”

"......But when you scratch even a little beneath the surface of all the hyperbole, one thing becomes clear: The president’s actions don’t violate the Constitution; they only violate his critics’ political positions. In fact, based on the nature of the outcry, it’s Obama’s most strident foes who could use a lesson in the Constitution......"

"......Obama’s critics don’t seem to care that he has in fact issued fewer executive orders than any president in a century—including George W. Bush. (Remember him?) Yet now that Obama may want to use executive orders to do something his foes don’t like, they insist that such actions are a profound threat to democracy itself. This is despite the fact that the president’s executive actions don’t even rise to the level of “orders”; most are only recommendations to agencies or promises to do things that every president does, like nominate an agency head (here, to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which has been without a confirmed chief for years)....."

".......Perhaps the greatest irony here is that it is opponents of Obama’s gun proposals that seem to disregard our Constitution. In states like Texas and Wyoming, gun-rights extremists are pushing their legislatures to enact laws declaring new federal laws on guns unenforceable. Yet the Constitution unambiguously declares the “laws of the United States . . . shall be the supreme law of the land.” This provision was specifically intended by the founders to prevent states from interfering with national legislation, and yet for some reason, the right-wing outrage machine has remained silent on these clearly unconstitutional state efforts......"

Full article:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/19/gun-lovers-freak-over-obama-s-executive-actions.html

Enjoyful

Fear-mongering, especially when used to sell products, should be considered hate speech.  Fear drives this hysteria from the right and it's damaging our country.  I blame the NRA, the gun manufacturers, and certain politicians who KNOW the truth yet spread the lies and fear anyway.

Bastards.

bluedahlia

Its all about the money, honey! 

I'm off, gonna have a delightful day with some retail therapy!

Anonymous

Athena~Andrea Yates is one of the mothers that was uppermost in my mind. I know she suffered from an extreme case of postnatal syndrome. She had zero support from her husband or doctors. I don't think they take that syndrome seriously. Her husband kept insisting on more children, and I think Andrea got worse with each birth.



There have many more cases like that. Mothers putting their baby in the microwave, because she thought it had a demon.



I've found through life that many people profess to be christian, but have no knowledge of Christ, his love, compassion, mercy, forgiveness, and grace. But, because they aren't Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, or Hindu, they automatically say Christian. Words are cheap, it's the actions that tell the story.



Blessings from the Old Hippy

Paula

lassie11

Suzie - you would be quite right to be afraid driving in the snow. It's the drivers who forget to be afraid, aren't careful and cause accidents.

1Athena1

Yes, Paula, agreed.

1Athena1

I will give my region's meteorologists the benefit of the doubt and say that this topography must be complicated to predict. Because otherwise, they are twit heads! We were promised 2-4 inches between Thursday and Friday and got nothing.

I want snow.

Blue, enjoy the most effective of therapies!

pupmom

Jackie, this is way after you posted, but I do think Gacy was a sociopath, of the very worst sort. The clown gig, as well as his political activities and outgoing demeanor represented key elements in many sociopaths' personalities. Outwardly he appeared very charming and engaging, due to which he was very easily trusted and engaged. If I recall correctly, some of the young men he killed were lured to his house to supposedly talk about jobs with his company. All the murdered boys' deaths were very cruel and lingering. Gacy thoroughly enjoyed torturing and watching his victims slowly die. I don't know of any psychological studies about him, although I am sure there are many, but in my book he definitely qualifies for the definition.

On the other hand, as Athena mentioned, Daumer does not present as a sociopath. He showed sorrow and did know what he did was wrong, to put it mildly.  

Andrea Yates, of course, was floridly psychotic. I blame her husband for forcing her to home school, when she was clearly falling apart, and not getting her the amount of psychiatric care she needed. I may be wrong but I recall he also encouraged or even made her go off her psychotrophic meds. 

1Athena1

Donald Rumsfeld was a stone, cold sociopath, IMO. Incapable of showing an iota of empathy for the soliders he was sending and under-equipping. Couldn't give a damn when 9/11 or Katrina happened. You could tell how forced and hollow his words of condolence were. There were a few sociopaths in the Bush years. Probably Charles Addington, the Black Adder, as Maureen Dowd called him, would fit the bill. He was Cheney's chief of staff after Scooter Libby.

Many serial killers are, of course, sociopaths. Particularly those who display a superfical charm (wich is a trait of this). The archetypal pschopath was the very handsome, charming and intelligent Ted Bundy, of course. 

Majority leader Tom DeLay - remember the "Hammer"? Definitely a sociopath. Dirty, unscrupulous, no empathy and utterly, utterly ruthless and devoid of purpose other than his own aggrandizement. He would have made a good mafia don.

Another sociopath....soooo, charming, too: Bugsy Siegel. And definitely Charles Manson.

Hitler? No, IMO. A fanatic. Those are scarier. The same goes for Osama bin Laden.

pupmom

Athena, how about Bush Jr. and Cheney? I know Jr. tortured frogs as a child (as you know torturing animals is another key feature of the disorder). Cheney was/is as heartless as they get and only cared about seizing power. He's also a pathologival liar.

IllinoisLady

Thanks Yorkie....I read a book about Gacy, and though my mental faculties are well enough I can call to mind a lot, some of the finer details ( possible diagnosis etc. ) just don't hang in there.  I am just glad to have basic recall.  I do a lot of crossword puzzles ( do need more reading which  may happen now my daughter is here and does so much ) and I can find time.  In fact, there was a time, non-fiction was almost all I read.....starting way back with the Charles Manson murders.  It was such a remarkable book ( horrid as the recitation of events were ) and so alien to the sort of life I lived ( seldom even knew of anyone so deranged at that time ) that it set me on the path to wanting to know hows and whys.  I am still sometimes amazed at how much insanity can happen before there is some address and redress.

Jackie

1Athena1

I didn't know about Bush torturing frogs - to be honest, I would have a hard time believing that. IMO Bush is definitely not a sociopath. He is shallow and clueless and does not know America, but he is kind and generous and a good friend by all accounts. This, without defending anything about his presidency. He is just extraordinarily shallow - only one reason why he is American's worst ever.

Cheney to me falls more on the side of the fanatic's follower. The angry number two man (number one wouldn't be Bush). I think he can be extremely vindictive and cruel but I see that more as his passion. He is certainly dangerous and someone I would stay away from, but not callous/unemotional. All opinions, of course. I met him once and, much as I absolutely loathe and detest the man, he struck me as someone I would love to have as a grandfather. Warm and funny, and not in a superficial way.

pupmom

Jackie, having read your very comprehensive and thoughtful posts all these months, I find what you say about your brain almost impossible to believe! You must have been a real mental powerhouse before is all I can say!  

1Athena1

Jackie, what Yorkie said! I love your depth and thoughtfulnes.

On another topic, did anyone here ever enjoy reading James Herriot's books about being a vet in Yorkshire - I spent my childhood with those books. There is a show on NatGeoWild called "The Incredible Dr. Pol" about a rural vet in Michigan (I think - not sure about the state) and his son and his clinic. Their patients are mostly cows and horses. Reminds me of the wonderful Herriot series. Watching Dr. Pol now on this lazy Saturday.

YramAL

Heard on the news last night that W won't be at the inaguration. Neither will his father, but he's in poor health. Wonder what W's excuse is?

I am very scared for President Obama at his inaguration. There are so many nuts out there that hate him and want to do him harm. I know he has the best security in the world.

Mary

Chickadee

Athena hang in there for the snow. My bets are on snow around Presidents' Day. Always seemed the blizzards hit DC in February and often on that holiday.



We had snow here once since we moved about two years ago. I took pics of all the neighbors houses so they could prove we do get snow......sometimes. It was all melted by lunch but sure was pretty. I do miss the beauty of snow and ice storms but not the danger of them.



My favorite memory of an ice storm was when it would coat my mothers wisteria bushes and the sun would hit it making it sparkle like diamonds. Least favorite when it took all the power out and we froze for three weeks before they got it back up. Yuck.

YramAL

Yes-Athena-I loved James Herriot's books! Read them all several times. My 85 year old mom raves about the show you're talking about, but I haven't seen it myself.

Mary

pupmom

Athena, yes, I adored those books! Wasn't one of them called "All Creatures Great and Small?" Will have to look for the program.

Mary, I also fear for the President and his family. So much hate out there. 

Anonymous

As you know, this old conservative isn't an Obama fan, however, I try to keep my thoughts to myself in consideration of you all who love him. I agree to disagree, but I do pray for him daily. I pray for his safety ( I wish him no harm). I pray for wisdom for him, and I pray for his health, and his family.



On the other hand, I'm guess I'm one of the idjuts, cause I love GWB. I know he made many mistakes, but I believe he is a good man.



That said, I love the stories you all share on here. Movies, books, art, music, mental health, world news, and personal stories. I believe I'm a bit older than most of you. I'm 62. I've seen a lot in my lifetime. The Good, the Bad, & the Ugly.



Sometimes you make me cry, sometimes you make me laugh, but you always make me think.



Blessings to Y'All

Paula

pupmom

Paula, I know it sounds paradoxical, but I also have not been a big fan of President Obama, until recently. If it hadn't been for their VP choices I would likely have voted for McCain and Romney, both of whom I consider moderates and good men. 

I'm sorry if I offended you by my statements regarding GWB. My feelings about him are very strong, so I will just leave it at that.

ETA: Due to the extreme positions Romney was forced to take (but which I do not believe he really bought into) I might not have voted for him even if he had chosen a reasonable VP. Also, the crazy statements about rape and reproduction, i.e. the war on women, spouted by too many Republicans, was another deterrent. 

YramAL

Yes, Paula, we will have to agree to disagree on GWB, but I do appreciate your contributions to this thread. Civility when discussing politics-imagine that!

Yorkiemom-those VP choices would have been deal breakers for me too, had I considered voting for either McCain or Romney. They were the ones that scared me at the thought of either man winning the presidency.

Mary

Anonymous

Ole Hippy Paula,  expect your oncologists are keeping an eye on your WBC - can't remember if you're doing AC dose dense - every two week infusion, for that, my oncologists used Neulasta injections to keep WBC up.  Don't think I would have made it without that.  Hard to describe the "collapse" after the steroids, seem to remember that being about 4 days after infusion, I used to call it The Crash.  Still, the stuff seems to be effective  It was almost 6 years ago for me.  We ole hippies have to hang around to teach the young folks who Janis Joplin was - and that she'd be 70 today.  Ain't that amazing - thinking of her being 70!!!!!

Anonymous

Oh, meant to say - W isn't going to DC to stay to be near his Dad - just out of hospital, doesn't seem to be well.  Sad.  He is SUCH a gentleman... at least that's what the papers are reporting....feels true.  Also praise W for staying out of the picture, which seems to be traditional for former Prez - well, except for WJC, but he's such fun to hear!  Still remember his performance at Convention in August - he does a better job of "selling" BHO than BHO does.

Happy Monday soon....cold, but not as cold as 4 years ago.  Meanwhile, we expecting daily temps in low teens for most of next week...now THAT is cold.....

alexandria58

Cold here in Jersey.  Anyone who really wants snow should have a meet-up in Vermont. I had at least a foot in my yard when I was there a week ago or so. Offer is open.

Anonymous

Sunflowers~I did not know that Janis would have been 70 today. Amazing! I loved her. I remember going to the movies in the 70's to see a documentary about her. She appeared on a talk show in the doc. and said she was going to her hometown for the first time in many years. She had been made fun of in school, but she was so looking forward to going back home, cause now, she was going home a STAR!



I get AC every third week. My oncs reasoning is (no Neulasta) you have more time to rebound, plus there's less chance of developing leukemia down the road.

I did some research on Robin Roberts go GMA. She had breast cancer in 2007. She was on AC. They said, that is INDEED why she had pre-leukemia. It's rare, but it happens.



By the way, Robin returns to GMA on Monday.



Paula

Anonymous

Paula, I volunteered for a Phase III Clinical Trial, and pulled the AC dose dense card.  As the other card was Taxotere, I am very grateful for getting the AC.  The SE's of taxotere scare me much more than the ones from AC.  FIgure, as I must've "passed" the mugascan - I'll be ok.  In hindsight, I really feel the first 18 months on Arimidex was more difficult for me than chemotherapy!  Now in year 6, and feeling fine, but the beginning, yuck!