Can we have a forum for "older" people with bc?

octogirl

Thanks Puffin2014, I have definitely been checking out the Lx lounge thread....fortunately, the node incision hasn't been too bothersome yet (ice definitely helps for me) and only one instance of zinging pain so far, but I was prepared for it. I did have my nipple removed in addition to the lumpectomy (thanks to an unfortunate location for the tumor right below the nipple) so that hurts a bit more than I think it would otherwise (?). Nothing a combo of ES Tylenol and Ibuprofen, taken together in doses recommended my surgeon, doesn't deal with, however.

My biggest problem right now, four days post surgery, is itching! Makes me a bit crazy. The drugs don't seem to help it as much as they help pain. Any suggestions? I am going to bs surgeon for post op apt Wedn so that will be on the list to ask about....

carolehalston

Welcome to Octogirl land 50sgirl.  

Anne, I agree that your daughter who lives with you should take priority.  What a stressful situation with children involved.  I'm sorry you're having to deal with it.

Will try to post a pic of the new deck.

carolehalston

Chevyboy

Ann! I would move out of your house, and not leave a forwarding address except to anyone you want to see. I would not let them take over your life. Either that or build a tall 8 foot fence around your house, take out the phone, change the locks, and pretend you are never home. Put black shades on all the windows.

People, whether they are family or not, will drive you absolutely NUTS! We'll throw my neighbors in with that bunch too! You know, the ones with chickens, and a cat, and weeds growing on the parking 4 feet tall! I think her name is Sparkle Plenty.... No brains.... a real little flower-child hippy

Wren44

Carole, What a lovely place to sit and relax. Your DH did good work.

carolehalston

Our awning covers most of the patio and provides shade when needed. But I rolled it in to get the best light for the photo. I enjoy the deck more than I expected to.

octogirl

Very nice pic of the deck!

Puffin2014

Carole, lovely deck, beautiful geraniums, DH does good work!

octogirl: I don't remember doing anything special for the itching, does the ice help any?

IllinoisLady

Welcome 50'sgal, I'm so glad you found us.  This is a wonderful group --- though I'm on a couple of other places as well and all are fantastic.  I came here just as the thread was starting to take off and have never left.  Just very comfortable here and I hope you and Octogirl will be as well.  Chevy cuts up a lot around here but it is all in the spirit of love and caring.

The majority of us have been through the mill a while back, but we stay because we like visiting with each other and have found anything that is shared often becomes easier, both for the fact that it just helps to have somewhere to go to get it off your chest and because we have all lived long enough here to have varied experiences and lots of viewpoints. 

We have a clown here though she hasn't checked in for quite some time.  Her name is Mimi.  Puffin is  real bird-watcher.  Carole as you saw is living in her summer retreat away from the heat  and humidity in La. 

Anne, who we have been talking to, has homes in Fla. and N. Carolina.  Did I get that right Anne -- and we are voicing our feelings about one of her issues. 

As for myself, I feed feral cats around town -- keep far too many pets here at my house ( cats and dogs ) work a couple days a week, and leave a quote here in the morning.

Octogirl, I lived in the Santa Barbara/Ventura area of southern California for 25 yrs.  Was born and raised right where I am now and here till the age of 18, but by circuitous route and life circumstances did stay a long time in California.  It was wonderful ( well maybe not the earthquakes ) but I missed the seasons a lot and when life handed me a chance to "come home" I took it and have been home now for 18 yrs. 

Carole -- that is a truly wonderful deck.  It is really, really pretty --- and looks bigger than I imagined it would be but seems perfect as it is.  I guess the only thing I would need is hand rails on the stairs.  Just kidding.  We are going to put some on our deck though it is high --- and tricky in winter-time here.  When we first bought the house 11 yrs. ago --- who needed handrails.  Now that 70 is right around the corner for me --- even without ice and snow hand rails could feel good once in a while. 

Went to Marion V.A. this afternoon and had my eye exam.  Need a stronger prescription ( which I realized a while back ) but everything else was fine.  No glaucoma, or macular degeneration etc.  They are giving me hard plastic lenses since my one eye though I can see with it doesn't get corrected vision since it is lazy -- means I have to be a lot more careful with the other and quit having glass lenses.  I will get the Crizal in them though.  Had that before and it is great.  No glare which is truly great at night.

Anyway, the new glasses will come through the mail ( cool ) and I was able for a slight fee to use the glasses I have now which fit me well and everyone likes on me.  I was thrilled to be able to go to the V.A.  ( major price reduction -- mostly free actually ) but they don't have much of an array to choose from in glasses.  So -- I'm glad to keep what works for me.   Sure will be glad when my eyes un-dilate.  Hate that part.

Saying hi to Paula and Judy, termite and Bonnets and everyone.  I hope you all had a gorgeous day. 

Jackie

octogirl

thanks for the welcomes! On the weather front I just heard that there are flash flood warnings for the Sierra Nevada (Yosemite is 80 miles to our east) and most of the surrounding counties....and it is clouding up here. We may get rain here in the valley!!!! Rain in the Sierra happens in July but in the valley it is almost unheard of....and with this drought, quite strange. I would love some wet stuff!

octogirl

oh..and thanks for the reminder to ice Puffin: it does help the itching!

carolehalston

Jackie, glad for the good report on your eye health.

Octogirl, we have visited quite a few national parks in the west but not Yosemite. I've heard how awe-inspiring it is.

Chevy, how is your garden this summer? Have you created some new decorations?

This morning it's 60 degrees with low humidity. I reached for long pants and a sweat shirt when I got up about 30 min. ago. I'm about to go outside with a cup of coffee.

We still have not bought a boat and I have not used my fishing rod so far. It seems we passed up a good buy early in our search.

Wishing everyone a good day.

IllinoisLady

Pause to appreciate the beauty around you.
Whether rainbow or butterfly,
mountain or tree, painting or poem -
whether crafted by nature or by a human hand -
beauty adds a magical element to life
that surpasses logic and science.
--Jonathan Lockwood Huie

IllinoisLady

Good morning -- cooler here today and less humidity.  Can't make me too sad about that.  Tomorrow we are going to St. Clair Square ( the big go-to shopping area which is 70 or so miles west of here towards St. Louis, Mo. ) if plans don't change.  I broke my chop wizard and need to replace it. There are a few things I use on a rather constant basis and that is one of them.  As I tend to be a 'poor' shopper over-all it will be nice to get in the thick of a 'bunch' of stores at once though the chopper is all I'm going for --- but you know how that goes a lot of time.

Carole -- I can picture you having that coffee on your "deck"/porch.  That becomes the place to be when the weather permits.  We have ( this yr. here has been too strange again ) used ours almost exclusively for everything when it is nice.  Having coffee, eating all meals out of doors, just relaxing after spells of work in and outside.  It can feel so calming and relaxing --- not confining like when you are closed in by walls -- and the nature around you almost always has something of interest --- at least out here in the country/woods where we are.  We have been watching a mama deer and her little twins.  For some reason she hangs around here ( seems to know that is NO hunting allowed ) and the baby fawns are some of the smallest I've seen.  It is a delight to see them -- though we have seen them more as we come and go since the weather for the deck has been too extreme. 

Hope all will have a gorgeous day.  Have to go to work but I'll be back afterwards.

Blessings

Jackie

octogirl

Good Morning to all.....It is a pretty day here: I was up early, had some coffee (yeah, yeah, I know, I should cut back. Screw it.) in the back yard with hubby. In the summer, mornings are the nicest time around here: cool, quiet, I can hear the birds in my seven sequoia trees and listen to myself think.

It is muggy (for us, those in the Southeast would laugh at calling this muggy I am sure) but no rain here, at least yet. Fairly sure that the mountains got rain and probably some snow higher up last night.

Carole: Yosemite is amazing....being able to see those mountains from my work and from home (on a good day: on a bad day all I see is smog. We are not known for good air quality around here) is one of the charms of living where I do. I am originally from San Francisco, have been in the Central Valley for almost 8 years now, and having Yosemite nearby has made the transition from big city to small town painless. (Not having traffic helps too). Will always miss the SF restaurants however! Fortunately, the big City is only a few hours drive or train ride when I need my fix.

Back to Yosemite: it should be on everyone's bucket list. Spring is the ideal time to visit if you want to see the waterfalls....Autumn and winter the ideal times to avoid crowds. Summer to get to the high country. Come see us, anytime. (but don't ask if you can come visit me while I am recovering from surgery...as one of my well-meaning relatives did: no, please. Not what I need. Send a card, but don't force me to worry about whether my house is dirty when I want to rest and forget that there is housework to be done! ) (So nice to have folks to talk to who I know understand!).

Anneb1149

Mornin all,

Welcome 50'sgirl and Octogirl. What a great bunch of people you have chosen to join! Whatever's on your mind, we are here to listen and laugh or cry with you as needed. Between us all, there's a lot of "cancer planet" experience. Whether it's medical, or emotional, one, if not all of us can relate. We've got your back!

That said, we have also become "just" good friends, who share the ups and downs of our daily lives each day. As Jackie said, some of us golf, some garden, some cook, most have furry pets of one kind or another, and, of course, we all have family. Again, for some, it is aging parents, for others children and grandchildren, for others, siblings or friends that are like family. So, join in, tells us about your lives or whatever else is on your minds.

As Jackie said, I am dealing with a family issue right now (Jackie- you were almost right. I have a house in Florida and the other one is in Ga, although I have a son who lives in So Carolina, so you weren't far off). You can go back a page or two and read the details. Basically, I have 5 children who live in 3 states. I live with a daughter both in Ga and Fl. Fl is my main home, only started going to Ga when my oldest daughter moved there 5 years ago. Anyway, my youngest daughter, who comes with a lot of baggage, decided to sell her home here in So Fl, expecting it to take months to sell and it sold the first week. She and her husband have plans to move to Central Fl eventually, but want their daughter (10) to finish elementary school at the school she has been at since Kdg. So she asked if her and her two kids could move in with us for the school year.

There are so many issues attached to that, at the top of which is that she and the daughter already living here don't get along well and never have. In fact, the daughter living with me found a rental for her and her son just in caseI said yes. I stressed all weekend about the situation. I mean really stressed. I love all my children and all 6 of my amazing grandchildren, but have a special attachment to these two grandchildren, because their lives are not what I believe they should and could be, and I would love to live with them for a year, so they could have stability and all that brings for a year. Yet, in the end, I said no, saying that regretfully, I was not strong enough, emotionally or physically to add them to our already full house- part of the decision was based on not having any bedrooms available. It would have meant the kids probably sleeping in my room with me, while Mom slept on the couch. I am very happy to say that she took the news very well, and says she understands completely, although she has no idea what they are going to do. Part of the problem is that her husband works out of their carport, which he has sort of enclosed. When they leave, they can't afford both a rental house and a workshop for him, and his work provides the only income they have. BTW, the property they plan to live on in central Fl is in the middle of a large area of uncleared acreage with no power lines, etc. so heaven only knows when, if ever, they will be able to start building their "container" home on it- I don't have the foggiest idea what a container home even is. Her husband is a wanna- be survivalist, with plans for them to "live off the grid".

Anyway, that's enough about me for now. Hope everyone is doing well. Problem with me stressing all weekend is that my lymphedema has flared. Back to sleeve and glove every day for a while.

Anne

octogirl

ackk Anne! That certainly puts weekend visits from relatives in perspective! I think saying no was the right decision, FWIW....they needed a plan B and if they can't live with you they will have to develop it. After all, if her hubby works out of the home and is the only source of income: what will their income be when they are off the grid? Most workshops need power.. I hear you on wanting to be part of the kids (your grandkids) lives, and you should continue to be there for them...but you don't need them living with you to do that (I am sure you know that).

Is a container home a shipping container (like a train box car or one of those things you see on barges) turned into a home?

I am blessed that both of my adult children seem to be doing relatively well on their own (knock on wood, we all now how things can change in an instance)...but that doesn't stop me from worrying about them. My daughter works full time, is married, lives about four hours drive away, and has two kids who are the lights of my life (the grandkids are a girl, 7 and a boy 2). I don't see the grandkids nearly as often as I should or as I'd like. I plan to see them more this year. I hope you all encourage that!

My son is unmarried, no kids, though in a serious relationship with a girl I have mixed feelings about: she is smart and beautiful and a good person and I should love her, but well, I am not sure she is the best match for him. Then again, I wasn't that sure about DD's husband and they seem to be going strong after 8 years of marriage. are the spouses ever good enough, even when they are good? In any case, son lives on the East Coast where he is a PhD student, so I only see him two or three times a year. He will be out for a visit later this summer; definitely looking forward to that!

Hope you all have a great day.

Puffin2014

This morning went to yoga at the Y, then walked a couple miles on the treadmill, stopped by a nursery on the way home and bought a perennial mum plant, will have Lew dig the hole for it tonight. Did some weeding, watered flowers, And now I'm resting after having a little lunch.

Finally got the recall notice on my Honda Civic for the problems they've been having with the air bags killing people with shrapnel when they expand. I took the car in yesterday and the young lady said they'd call me when the parts came in. I asked her if they were going to provide me with something safer to drive in the meantime and she looked at me like I was daft and walked me over to her supervisor, who promptly called Enterprise and arranged for a rental car for me to use as their loaner cars were all out. he figured it should only take 2-3 days, and since they're paying for my rental car I'm sure they'll try and get it done as quickly as they can.

We're going this weekend to granddaughter's high school graduation party (it had to be postponed after Lew's mom died). Made arrangements this morning to stop and see another granddaughter on Friday on our way to Minneapolis and we'll take the 2 great grandkids to the park for awhile.

Time to move onto next project of the day, maybe working on Alaska photos.

Anne: good decision, one of Lew's favorite sayings "your inability to plan ahead does not a problem for me make" (he likes Yoda).

JAN69

Octogirl - We must be neighbors. I live a few miles from the southern gate to Yosemite. We moved here 21 years ago when my husband retired. I was born in Tulare county but lived in Southern California most of my life.

Welcome to BCO. I don't post often, but usually follow a few threads.

octogirl

hi Jan69; neighbors indeed, at least in relative terms. I am west of the 140 entrance. I love the area up by Wawona closer to where you are...good to meet you here.

IllinoisLady

Jan69 -- feel free to come anytime you would like.  Octogirl, my folks ( both deceased now -- Dad in 96 and Mom in 98  --  lived in the foothills of the Sierra's in a little town called Borough Valley. This was outside of Fresno which would have I think been on the inland side rather than ocean side.  They were there for 8 yrs. before Dad passed away and as it was a rugged trip for us many times --we didn't go often and I didn't learn as much as I might have -- so maybe it would be more apt to save I think they were on the western side of Fresno. 

At any rate, it was very pretty there --- usually pretty hot during the day, but ok once the sun starting going down and it was a nice drive -- always interesting going up the Grapevine which I think was around Bakersfield.  Just the way you have said a couple of things makes me think you maybe were not so far away from there.

Don't cut back too much on your coffee --- just drink an extra glass of water or two.  My Dr. told me to try and drink a glass of water for every cup of coffee.  I think part of the reason was to dilute the acidity and the other was that water dilutes and rinses the body anyway and we should have a lot during the day anyhow.  It is said 8 glasses --- I use to drink 8 or 12 glasses a day but got turned off during chemo and I still haven't been able to get up to the levels I once enjoyed.  At least water did start to taste just fine to me again.  Can be happy about that.

Anne -- how funny.  I toyed with the Carolina's for a while, decided I was wrong --- then though nah --- why would I think it that long if it wasn't right.  I was afraid of losing my post if I went back.  That would have made me scream and cry -- a lot.  So, I just kept right on.  Georgia --the minute you said it, of course, it flooded back to my memory.  Dare I say this -- two days from now if not sooner --- it could be gone, but I sure hope not.  I accept my sort of poor memory but it does give me fits now and then.  

The container thingy is I think some sort of large packing crate.  I saw in??? a magazine -- Reader's Di9est or??? about very small houses being made now.  Basically, no wasted space etc.  In some ways I think it is a great idea.  We hoard and hang onto so much --- and it is more to take care of, or keep up with in some way --- to have to dust, wash, wax, polish -- or whatever.  Think how much time could be saved.  I do have to admit a fondness though for lots of my "stuff" and like most people --- the majority of it is not worth much, important only to me and if I'd just let go of some of it ( I've worked on that and will continue ) soon I think I'd be wondering what took me so long.  I think I mentioned to you all here washing, polishing and buffing a couple loads of furniture and odds and ends for our neighbors who had to leave so much of their stuff behind (  had a yard sell for what they couldn't bring ) and I was so thrilled ---  and I'm doing just fine without that stuff.  Anyway, I do thing a couple of box-car type containers, maybe  could likely be a home if you are truly handy -- the grid idea, well --- if I were a whole lot younger and didn't mind massive work maybe I could do it.  Didn't the pioneers ( same style isn't it ???? ) work from sun-up to sun-down.  I don't think I REALLY want to do that  --- I mean the washing in the river, pounding my dirty clothes on rocks.  Nah !!!!  As bad as it may be for the Earth I have come to adore electric lights and hot running water and gas cook stoves --- and furnace heat in my living quarters and oh , yeah --- no Sears and Roebuck catalog disappearing when one has to answer Nature's Call.  I'm going to hang in there on these things. 

Puffin -- interesting reaction on your car.  I can see that the dealer would maybe be quite anxious to get your car fixed since he got caught out without a loaner.  I would imagine yours will be put ahead of the people with the loaners.  Good for you.  You sure do a lot though it does keep us out of trouble doesn't it.  I like Lew's saying.....smart man.  Problems are meant to be solved by the person having them.  A small amt. of help, a shoulder to cry one now and then is ok, but really --- there is nothing that can prove more and give a sense of satisfaction like taking your lemon and turning it into the sweetest drink one could have.  Also, once one has a success or two under the belt, it is great encouragement to trust yourself and to realize that you, capital, YOU have it in you and don't need to run to others, but can deal with a challenge and overcome it. 

Ok, off and running to another post or thread.  Got to get caught up this afternoon  See you all soon.

Jackie

 

50sgirl

I am visiting Long Island, NY this week while my grandson is playing in a baseball tournament here. It is nice for my husband and I to get away for a little while. I do hope that the deer don't party in my garden while I am away from New Hampshire. I have tried many deterrents, but the deer continue to munch on the hydrangea, garden phlox, and hosta. There must be a family of chubby happy deer running through the woods.

Lynne

bonnets

Hmmm Carole, nice RV, esp wit the deck!

We got home from Montana Sunday night , then had 4 grands plus a friend from Maryland for the last couple of days. Took them swimming at our daughters yesterday and to see the Minions( I like them too!) today. Didn't cook , went out for suppers. Was so hot and humid the last couple of days, and no AC here except in our bedroom, where we have the TV and our recliners. Spend most of our time there. The "master suite" haha! Cudnt keep the kids overnight , as we only have 1 bedroom in our little log cabin. So were also trecking them back and forth from my exes summer place on the lake about 20 miles from here! Guess my daughter is stoppping by on her way to pick up her kids on Saturday, since we were gone when she brought them up.

My new gluten free diet made the traveling interesting. It seems to be helping my digestive issues, but between that and going caffeine free for the tachy cardia, everything I like , it seems I can't eat! Oh well have ost a few pounds on it.

Welcome to the new ladies!

IllinoisLady

50'sgirl -- Long Island sounds like a good place to go, especially if it is to cheer on a grandson.  I'd be there too.  I'll have to ask my neighbor on the other lane what he is doing to keep deer out of his tomato patch.  They have a tomato garden right by their driveway.  Anyway the Dh read somewhere ( maybe the Internet but I don't recall ) about some string looking line to tie around four poles/stakes at the four corners of the garden. 

Shame on me -- I didn't say anything but sort of silently scoffed that such a thing could work.  Lo and behold -- their tomato bushes are getting quite tall an are chock full of tomatoes.  These lines/strings -- whatever it is --- have just somehow managed to keep the deer completely away I guess.  Anyway, hopefully I'll remember -- and anyone here then can have the magic for themselves.  I'm rather astounded -- because like anything --- you hear of lots of home remedies so to speak and often, no matter how promising it may sound and seem, you are disappointed.

Bonnets, I'm sure glad if you can travel better on that diet.  Sorry though that it is difficult to find enough "tasty" food.  Probably likely an issue with many different kinds of diets.  I've often thought I should do that D.A.S.H. but just reading it over makes me feel I would face major hurdles to be even partly successful.  Here's hoping you can find a happy medium somehow. 

It is going to get into the 50's here tonight Dh told me.  Almost hard to believe and maybe some rain --- ???? tomorrow. Wasn't paying too much attention to the weather this morning.  Not a bad day here as our humidity let up again.  I sure love those days.

Hope you all have a fine evening.

Jackie

gardengumby

We finished covering our backyard with landscape cloth, then covered that with 20 yards of TaGro, which is uhhh dirt (sort of) - it's actually biosolids from the city sewage that have been disinfected had ground up yard waste added and then recycled for use. Supposedly it's the best stuff to grow and is for sale directly from the city (and in bags in every hardware and yard store in the city) for a really good price. The website said it was virtually odor free. Unfortunately, there is a bit of a difference between odor free and "virtually" odor free. Fortunately, it's cooled down a bit, as the yard kinda stinks right now, and without AC, it's a real chore to keep the house cool enough when you also need to keep the doors and windows closed to keep the smell out. Hopefully it will fade away over the next few days (it's already faded a lot, and it was just put down yesterday, so I'm very hopeful), as the temp seems to be going up again.... Our neighbors didn't descend on us in droves, so I guess it didn't faze them (either that or they're just being nice).

Anyway, the plan is to plant a bunch of shrubs that don't need a lot of watering or upkeep = as I plant them I'll cut out the landscape cloth from underneath. I did this at our last house, but instead of TaGro I put down bark. We found out (the hard way at the last house) that hubby is quite allergic to bark, so this time we did it differently.... This should keep me busy for the foreseeable future....

IllinoisLady

We are most like God when we forgive.
- Anonymous

You may call God love, you may call God goodness.
But the best name for God is compassion.
- Meister Eckhart

The key to forgiveness is to forgive from the heart -- not from the mind.
- Sheri Rosenthal

Forgiveness does not change the past,
but it does enlarge the future.
- Paul Boese

Unconditional forgiveness is the path to your own inner peace.
- Jonathan Lockwood Huie

So many good ones today I couldn't decide so here they all are.

IllinoisLady

GG, been wondering where you were and what you were up too.  I'm fascinated by your TaGro.  Of course, we haven't heard of such a thing here, but it does seem that time and circumstance have produced lots of options for people --- and if you can find a way to use something that seems highly UN-usable or that should be, sort of, then all the better.

Like you, it sounds like there is no smell after all is settled in well.  Here's hoping that very soon ( would be nice if they would tell you on the package that it may take a day or two ) you are back to odors you are well accustomed too so that doors and windows can stay open whenever you want them that way.  I also bet you end up with a fantastic yard.  Here's to fragrant plantings that make those open windows a totally pleasant experience during blooming seasons. 

Probably won't take the shopping trip today.  This week-end ( starting early Fri. morning ) I will go stay with my patient 24/7 until Sunday night.  I have a lot of loose ends to try and manage and so think shopping can wait.  Besides -- I'll actually turn around and do the exact same thing the very next week-end --- so even though there are bills --- I would have some extra shopping money anyway.  I'm not in a real hurry.

Thinking of all of you and hoping you have a really great day.  I'll be back later checking in.

Blessings

Jackie

Anneb1149

Mornin-

Jackie, you hit the nail on the head about "off the grid". One night while Nancy & family were here, we were all sitting outside, and our neighbor asked Jamie what exactly they were going to do on thisproperty. Jamie's answer, with some stumbling around was "farm" it. Further questioning revealed they plan to have chickens and a fish farm at the very least. I can't talk from personal experience, having been brought up in the Bronx, but I have always heard chickens are very dirty animals. I can see them using the eggs, but I cannot see either of the grandchildren eating an animal one of the parents have killed, even if they don't witness the actual killing. I also cannot see Jamie having the patience to pluck a chicken or filet a fish. Regardless of her husband's lofty goals, both of them were raised in normal suburbia, where each of the 6 grandchildren asked somewhere between the ages of 4 and 6, if we were getting a grocery store turkey for aThanksgiving and not the gobble, gobble kind from a farm. Jamie actually ended up in tears that night, letting us know she is not really in favor of this whole idea. The nearest schools are 20-30 miles away, and home schooling is not an option since Jamie, along with all her other issues has some serious learning disabilities. Her husband has read select portions of the Bible and uses them to control Jamie. She was raised in church, but reading is tough for her, so she has read just enough of Genesis to see God as a law giver and judge, then her husband shows her the passages where it says a wife needs to be submissive, but doesn't show her what the husbands part of that is. He very rarely participates in any social activity except for his own children's birthdays.

I might add that he and Jamie dated when she was 15, the relationship ended quickly and horribly when he shot a friend to death with Jamie standing right there. No charges were ever brought, although we all believe they should have been. I cannot tell you how messed up Jamie was, but I can tell you she was home bound for schooling the whole 3rd quarter of her senior year. They were apart for over 5 years, then met at a random party one night and 3 weeks later she was pregnant. Never thought I would approve of my child having a child without being married,but I was still happy when they had their second child 3 years later. They finally married ( the wedding was a fiasco) 7 years after the first child was born. Both grandchildren still have our last name

Oh, they are barely hanging on with the two they have, but he, once again, has shown her where God says we are to procreate, so she is no longer on birth control. "They" have decided it is their duty to accept however many children God sends.

Do any of you still wonder why I agonized so much about the possibility of her and the kids moving in? HE was not part of the deal. Having her away from his constant control and manipulation for a year? He would have still been part of their lives, just not on a 24/7 basis. Remember, he works from home.

Anne

IllinoisLady

Anne, you need to read about the Quiversful religion which is what the Duggars practice.   I usually view this as sort of political in a way so seldom say much, and indeed, I learned most of what I did learned from the Duggars coming up in political articles.  At any rate --- while I usually wouldn't say anything -- this thing about women being submissive to men, having way too many children ( and it makes the woman more and more dependent on the man ) is just not ok and in your daughter's case with her issues, even more so I'm sure. 

She really needs to be away from a man who feels like he does.  You might also check out Dominionism which is similar if not nearly the same as the Quiversful.  Either way --- separating your daughter from others like that -- and huge control through selection of only certain things that HE chooses to HELP her understand is on my behalf a frightening and dangerous way to live. 

The Duggars  chose fame so had a far better structure in general ( after all they were on t.v. ) and they were both bright enough people -- though it is done with now.  I do not think people ( The Dominions wish to populate the world enough to take over government and run the world by the Old Testament ) which is the shortened version, should be having numerous births as you don't know what will happen.  The t.v. program was taken off the air as the one adult child, Josh Duggar, with the help, blessing, and participation of his family, kept the fact somewhat secret that he had molested some of his sisters ( four I think ) and a young baby-sitter, and nothing was let out until after the statute of limitations had run its course. 

Sorry for putting this all out here, but it is a scary proposition.  I hope this situation can end well.

Jackie 

octogirl

Anneb: sorry you have to go through that...no words, other than, I'm sorry. You must worry so much for those grandkids!

Jackie: Borrough Valley is indeed in the foot hills about 35 miles northeast of Fresno, making it southeast of me perhaps 90 miles via the highway...it would be less as the crow flies if there were roads that are more direct, which there aren't. Will have to do a road trip to check it out one of these days! There is a good Wikkipedia article on it if you want to check out more of the history and natural history...

Weather report from the Great Central Valley: the central road to Yosemite (Highway 140) has been washed out with a mudslide following heavy rains! Here, 75 or so miles to the west, I don't think we even got a drop. Yesterday was cloudy, today the sun is out.

Off to the Big City (Fresno) for my first post op apt with bs. Wish me well and more later!

Best and hugs to all

Octogirl