Bible Study for the Biblically Challenged Anyone?

Anonymous

When it comes to the Bible and the spread of Christianity, one can certainly see the hand of God in Politics.  In the book of Daniel, it was foretold that Greece and Rome would rule the "world" and like Moody said, the Bible was written in Greek as well.  Had Greek not become a known language understood in oral and written form, the spread of Christianity would not have been so rapid.  When Greece took over, they put Greek cities in the countries, they made everyone learn Greek!

Then Rome conquers Greece and what happens?  Stone roads!!!  Rome literally paved the road for Christianity. Having one government allowed Christianity to spread and flourish throughout Western Civilization. Rome, unified under one government, made possible the passing of information very quickly, thus greatly assisting the spread of Christianity. People from far and wide came to Rome and then would take the new religion with them. Christianity became legal and the Romans would have army posts in cities near and far -- the soldiers taking Christianity with them.

The Bible has been a book protected by God for centuries now, allowing it to be available in over 90% of the languages ... with all the super computers we have this has now been possible!  You can see how the march of true religion has been steady and consistent, all the while being guided by our Heavenly Father.

moodyk13

Rock, very well said!!!

EWB

Hi all, been reading more than posting--you ladies are too fast for me. 

Any way- question...as I am reading all this it struck me that we are talking about Gods only son and how he gave up his only son blah, blah, blah.  Aren't we all decended from Adam and Eve, and if Adam and Eve were created by God wouldn't that mean we are all children of God and that Jesus is not the only son?

Elaine 

Anonymous

Elaine -- good question, but read Prov 8:22-31.  In those verses you will see that Jesus is the first and only thing that God made directly --- the ONLY begotten Son.  The firstborn of all creation.  Thru Jesus, all other things were made. Jesus used holy spirit to create. In Proverbs, to me, it reads like a father watching his son with so much love ... he loves his so much, the best, and the son, in making all the wonderful things, looks around and loves humans the very best of all the creations ... helps you to see why Jesus would give his life for us.

Don't forget John 3:16 -- his only begotten Son ..

Here is a commentary:  The Greek word "monogenes" is actually a combination of two words: "monos" which means "only" or "alone," and "genos" which means "of the same nature, kind, sort, species" (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the NT); "race, stock, class, kind" (Arndt & Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the NT and Other Early Christian Literature). It literally means "only one of its kind," and with reference to an individual it signifies that person to be a unique and one-of-a-kind being. Hugo McCord defines it as "a lone being, a unique existence, the only one of its kind, that which has no duplicate" (Gospel Advocate, 3/20/86). Jesus Christ is the unique, only one of His kind, Son of God. This is the meaning of "monogenes," and this is how it is translated in many of the more modern translations, which realize the true meaning of this word. Yes, we are all "sons of God" in a very real sense, but none of us are a son of God in the same sense that Jesus is. He is most definitely a "unique, one of a kind" Son of the Living God!!

And this regarding monogenes again:

Monogenēs (Unigenitus) is a Greek term (μονογενής) in Christology, usually translated as "Only begotten". This is based on deriving monogenēs from monos μονος (only) and gennaō γενναω (beget). An alternative understanding derives monogenēs from genos γενος (kind or type, cf. Latin genus), so means ‘unique', ‘one of a kind'. This is supported by New Testament usage: Hebrews 11:17 refers to Isaac as Abraham's ‘only begotten son', yet Abraham begat other sons (Ishmael, and by Keturah). But Isaac was Abraham's unique son, the son especially promised to him and Sarah in their old age, and who would carry on the covenant line.

Here is another comment:  In the Gospel of John, the author writes that "to all who believed him and accepted him [Jesus], he gave the right to become children of God" [John 1:12]. The phrase "children of God" is used ten times in the New Testament.[14] To these can be added the five times, mentioned above, in which the New Testament speaks of "sons of God". The New Testament speaks of no individual Christian as it speaks of Jesus, as the son of God, not just a son of God

EWB

I have to go read, but I'm not sure about this.

Sweet dreams all 

moodyk13

EWB, welcome back!  wondered where you had been!

Great question too!  Yes God created Adam and Eve and we are all descendants of them.  Jesus was actually BIRTHED into the world by Mary through Divine conception, something only God could do.

But also one more very import thing to remember.  Jesus is God in the flesh, not a seperate person.  God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.  Lets look at John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.  All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.  In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. 

Then John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

So basically this scripture shows us that Jesus was with God when the world was created as He IS God in human form.  Take a look at Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."  

Notice He says "us" and "our".  God is 3 entities in One Divine Majesty. 

LuAnnH

Ok ladies, I am getting a grip on life and getting back on track, it is time for me to pick up on my slow trek!  I left off where abraham was about to sacrafice his son.  I am going to get back to reading and see how far I can get and let the questions begin!  I think my little vent today really helped get my head back on straight.  It is so hard to have someone you love so dearly ripped from your arms but the day had to come and it is here.  I need to learn how to cope with this and move on.  It is up to my son to take care of his business and I as his mom to support him.  I will be traveling to TX soon so see him return from war.  I just got word tonight his unit is pulling back from the frontline and hopefully will be lifting off for Kuwait anytime now.  I just can't wait to get that call from him saying he is safely out of that country and will be home within the week.  Meanwhile I will have either lots of driving or flying time to get some reading and thinking done.  I really want to continue on this venture you started me on moody and I thank you for starting this.  It seems this is just something I really need in my life right now and have to really pull on something in my life right now and if I can't pull on my faith then what do I have left.  So officially welcome me back I hope!  Just grab me if I start slipping because I am on a rocky slope right now but must continue on, I have too many kids that need me more than anything!

moodyk13

LuAnn I am glad your back, I am so sorry I havent responded before now.  I have let the enemy get in between me and this thread.  I am back on the horse so to speak! 

So you said you are studying about Abraham and Isaac, so I am going to give you my "insight" on this story and I look forward to hearing your "insight" and I hope we will pick up some more activity here and I can get lots of insight (LOL) from lots of people!

So tomorrow, Abraham and Isaac!

moodyk13

Alright, I am ready to pick this back up and continue.  I am gonna finish up Hagar with this post and then, where ever the Lord leads me, that is what will be after Hagar.

STUDY # 2

Ishmael, God tells Abraham, will be the "father"  of 12 princes and will make him a great nation.  This is the official "birth" of the Arab nations and will later birth the "Islam" religion.  The bible doesn't actually say this, this comes from theologians who studied other historical documents and writings and you will see how the bible backs this up.

Ishmael is about 14 yrs old. according to "Matthew Henry's Commentary of the Bible".  Anyway, when Isaac was weaned Abraham held a celebration.  Well at this celebration, Sarah sees Ishmael making fun of Isaac and this ticked her off.  She goes to Abraham and tells him to kick both Hagar and Ishmael out on their butts.

Of course Abraham doesn't want to do this cuz Ishmael is his kid but God knows Hagar and Ishmael MUST get out of their home and God doesn't let anyone or anything interfere with His plan, so He tells Abraham: "But God said to Abraham, "Don't be upset about the boy and your slave. Listen to what Sarah says because through Isaac your descendants will carry on your name.  Besides, I will make the slave's son into a nation also, because he is your child." Gen 21:12 - 13

And Matthew Henry says this "The covenant seed of Abraham must be a peculiar people, a people by themselves, from the very first, distinguished, not mingled with those that were out of the covenant. And it is for this reason that Ishmael must be seperated."  He goes on to say "Nations are of God's making:  He formed them, He fixes them.  Many are full of the blessings of God's providence that are strangers to the blessings of His covenant."  

Beginning with vs. 20 the Bible tells us something very interesting about Ishmael.  Gen 21:18-21 "Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.  And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.  And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.  And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt." 

Now here are the things I have found so interesting in these verses:  God says He will make Ishmael a great nation and later is where we find out that Ishmael fathers the "12 Princes" and this is the beginning of the arab world.  See Gen 25:16. 

Second, "God opened her eyes"  is profound to me.  I believe the well was always there, but Hagar in all her anguish didn't see it.  It is like when I read these verses, the same words are there, but I will "see" things I never saw before.

Third Ishmael becomes an archer.  This must be important that is why God put it in there.  I think of the indians when I read this.  I know that at Bable, God spread the people across the world and jumbled their languages, but I still wonder if indians may have begun with Ishmael------it is just a thought of mine.

Fourth, the bible tells us Ishmael took an Egyptian wife.  Well we all know how the Egyptians had always been a thorn in Israel's side!

The only other mention of Hagar in the bible is in Galatians.  Gal 4:24-25 "which these things are symbolic.  For these are two covenants:  the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar--for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children."  Gal 4:30-31 "Nevertheless what does the Scripture say?  Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free." 

Interesting stuff huh LuAnnH?   

Rosemary44

Ahhh, I found you all.  Hi everyone.

I was reading this thread yesterday, I can't say I've read every word because I got stuck on something Rock said a few pages back and I had to go look it up.   Then I couldn't find this thread again. Hmmm, maybe a sign?

Anyway, I was reading where Rock posted that Abraham and Sarah, his wife, was really his sister.  That took me aback.  So off I went to find out.  What I found is Sarah is the daughter of Aron, along with Lot, Melchar and Jescha.  Aron is Abraham's brother.  For all I know there could be more children from Aron because they didn't give the full lineage when they could have done so.  So actually Sarah is Abraham's neice and wife.  This makes me feel a bit better.

My question is: Rock, where did you find the lineage table you posted?  I know I'm going back a few pages. 

Anonymous

Sarah is his half sister ...  same father, different mother. I think someone else posted that lineage image, it was awesome!!

Rosemary44

We can't just say that.  We have to know from Bible verse.  From what I found, she's his neice. But it wasn't from a Bible verse.  This needs study all by itself.  Or otherwise, I'm grossed out here.  

Rosemary44

I found it:  Chapter 20 in Gen:

¹² Anyway, she really is my sister, my father's daughter though not my mother's, besides being my wife.

I guess I have to get over it.

Anonymous

Rosemary, I believe pages back it is explained how marriage happened within families BACK THEN.  As I remember they traveled in "tribes."  HELP, ROCKY AND MOODY!

LuAnn, I am so sorry you are going through so many trials at once.  I agree with Moody.  God has a plan for you.  You are one strong woman having to deal with this all alone (but God IS with you).  I am so happy that you will see your son very soon.  I know that will give you a boost.

Hugs,

Shirley

Anonymous

Shirl, you're right but marriage laws had not been instituted, that didn't happen until Moses time with the Law Covenant.  You have to remember that Adam and Eve were created by God, so they didn't have all the genetic detioration that eventually came about.  Cain obviously had to marry his full sister.  They say Adam lived over 900 years -- imagine for 100's of years, he and Eve had children so it's not like all those who married each other had to have been raised at the same time ... I am sure Eve just kept having children. 

Abraham and Sara were also descendants of Shem, the son of Noah, so again, like in the days of Adam and Eve, those three sons of Noah were the only progenators.  All marriages would have to be a brother/sister or cousin/cousin marriage.  

moodyk13

I made the lineage image on my computer and posted it.  tonight (if I dont forget) I am gonna work on one that goes from Ishmael to Muhammed (Islam founder)

Hi Rosemary!  Save this in your favorites and will be easy to get to!

moodyk13

Regarding marriage and families, in fact back in Abraham's time, it was a "disgrace" to marry outside your own family.  In fact, it caused many a turmoil in Ishmael and Isaac, & Esau and Jacob, Lot and daughters.  There may be more, but these I know off the top of my head. 

To us in today's time, this is GROSSSSS, but to them WE are "disgraced" for marrying outside our families------at least I hope we are all outside our families................As Jeff Foxworthy so eloquently puts it:  "If your family tree does not fork......you might be a redneck." 

 

Rosemary44

Everytime I read the Bible I get a little surprise.  On my way to read one thing, I read another which surprised me.  It might be ahead of what your talking about.  It's about the wrestling match between Jacob and God? that went on all night.  What was that all about? 

Gen, 32

  ^{24 After he had taken them across the stream, he sent all his possessions over too. 25 And Jacob was left alone. Then someone wrestled with him until daybreak}

²⁶ who, seeing that he could not master him, struck him on the hip socket, and Jacob's hip was dislocated as he wrestled with him.

^{27 He said, 'Let me go, for day is breaking.' Jacob replied, 'I will not let you go unless you bless me.'}

²⁸ The other said, 'What is your name?' 'Jacob,' he replied.

^{29 He said, 'No longer are you to be called Jacob, but Israel since you have shown your strength against God and men and have prevailed.' 30 Then Jacob asked, 'Please tell me your name.' He replied, 'Why do you ask my name?' With that, he blessed him there. 31 Jacob named the place Peniel, 'Because I have seen God face to face,' he said, 'and have survived.'}

³² The sun rose as he passed Peniel, limping from his hip.

^{33 That is why to this day the Israelites do not eat the thigh sinew which is at the hip socket: because he had struck Jacob at the hip socket on the thigh sinew.}

LuAnnH

I am so glad to see this getting active again.  Thanks for your note Shirley, I'm getting it back together!  Takes more than that to keep me down too long!  Just was a big sock to the stomach more or less.  My son is due home within the next 10 to 20 days and I am going insane awaiting his call that he is on his way home!!!!  I look forward to starting to participate here again.  I think now that the house is quiet I need to get to reading and catch up to what is going on.  As you will see Rosemary I am truly the biblically challenged!

LuAnnH

well I'll be darned you all just helped me figure something out here.  I am reading and Abraham is sending his servant to his homeland to find a wife for his son.  At first read this made no sense to me why he must have a wife for his son from his homeland.  Now that you talk about how it is an outrage to marry outside your family brings this all to light!  WOOHOO!!!!  I'm getting it!!!!  LOL  I know I am too happy over the simple things lately.

Rosemary44

LuAnn,

I'm happy to hear that your son is soon to be home.  Is he staying home or is it a long visit?

I'm as biblically challenged as you are.  Being Catholic the emphasis was always on the New Testament, not much of the Old.  So the lessons that other people get much out of, when reading  the Old, goes right over my head. 

Back to reading. 

LuAnnH

My son is coming home for good (or until his next deployment), he has been gone since Nov 07 so I'm super excited.  I am also another in the catholic ranks, not sure if it is different now but when I grew up in the church we focused on the sunday sermons and not so much on hte bible.  I know i got a bible as a gift for my first communion or something like that but we didn't take them to church or sunday school.  So basically it was a dust collector in my house.

Now back to what I was reading...I am having a hard time following the lineage but I'm sure that will catch on as I need to know who someone is but Jacob is a sneaky fellow  and something tells me he is going to get his due.  I read about his adventures with Laban and then he took off and Lang followed but was warned by God not to touch him.  Then his wife hiding the idols uner her lap, I haven't found out what that is going to cause but I am sure there is some reason to note she sote her fathes religious idols....

moodyk13

Rosemary44, excellent question!  Here is what I believe this is telling us:

First, remember that Jacob had to flee from his home because Esau was going to kill him.  Second, his mom sent him to her brother Laban to live safely and take a wife.  (of course Jacob takes 2 Leah & Rachel)  Jacob had loaded up his children and wives to head back to his homeland.  Jacob sends some messengers to alert Esau that he was coming back home, in hopes that after 14 years (how long Jacob was gone) that Esau will have forgiven him and not kill him.

Okay so now Jacob is asleep and God comes to him in the flesh and wrestles with him.  Now Jacob, would'nt give up the wrestling - of course he didnt realize it was God and God was "testing" Jacob's tenacity.  Probably so that Jacob would understand that no matter what was trhown at him, no matter how much things might hurt, he had what it takes to persevere and do God's will.

During the wrestling God dislocated Jabos hip and this cause great pain, but notice Jacob still didn't give up.  This is when God changes Jacob's name to "Israel" and continues the covenant He made with Abraham, through Israel.  The name Israel seems to mean "struggling and prevailing".  Which is exactly where Israel is still to this day.  Only God could do this. 

And of course God didn't need to wrestle with Jacob, and of course Jacob could never beat God, but that isnt what this was about.  It was a test just like the test of Abraham sacrificing Isaac. God wants us to prove to ourselves that we can arise from adversity as long as we keep our focus on Him.  Notice that Jacob DOES "get it" in verse 30 "For I have seen God face to face and my life is still preserved".  He knew that God could have just "taken him out" with a blink, but understood the "lesson" God just taught him. 

What do you think?

LuAnnH

This is very interesting.  This is the section I am just getting to.  This explanation will help make this more understandable as I read it.  Thanks!

Anonymous

Food for thought regarding Jacob's struggle ... remember Esau was the physical guy, Jacob was the spiritual, more thoughtful one....Esau was the hunter ...Jacob was the cook..yet Jacob is the one here wrestling all night with the angel. 

marshakb

Moody,

I just stumbled onto this thread by checking the "active topics" button.  I was raised in the church (Baptist) basically going every time the doors were open.  I am blessed to have parents who raised me in the faith but like LuAnn on page 1, I had some very disappointing/discouraging things happen.  I won't go into all that but suffice to say I never lost my faith just not real hot about "organized" religion.  I love your thread, your unfailing belief and humor you show in sharing that with others. 

I've never considered myself Biblically challenged but after reading here (oops has it been over an hour? LOL) I'm grabbing my bible to check some things I obviously missed before!  I have several, King James Version, The Living Bible, and Life Application Study Bible so I do hope to be chiming in here as well.

My dad is the youngest of 10 kids so I have a huge family of aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.  I was recently dx'd with mets and just today received about 8 Christian based cards from relatives.  After opening them I came onto BCO, checked the active topics and here you are.   God works in mysterious ways at times but today seems he took me by the hand and led me right where I need to be.  Marsha

moodyk13

Marsha,  your post put a smile on my face and a tear in my eye.  The smile is because I am so happy you found us and are going to join in.  The tear is because anytime God uses me to do His work, it is so humbling to me.

I too have several translations of the Bible and I refer to the different ones quite often.  The one I use the most is NKJV Study Bible, but my NIV helps me understand certain things better.

You said you are seeing things you'd never seen before.  I was and still am EXACTLY the same way!  God placed it on my heart in January 2008 to read His word all the way through.  I started in Genesis and finished Revelation in August.  I saw SO MANY things I had never seen before!  It would give me goose bumps!  And still to this day, God reveals to me so much more that I never saw before.  Sometimes through my pastor, sometimes through Rocktober, and MANY times when LuAnn asks a question and I go back so that I can respond with accuracy.  God does work in mysterious ways, and in ways that could ONLY be of God!

I can't wait for you to join in because I have no doubt you will reveal even more things I nenver noticed before!

I am so sorry about your mets.  LuAnn has mets too and I believe that is another reason God brought you here.  LuAnn has an incredible strength and willingness to encourage and lift others up in ways that no one else can.

God Bless,

Karen

LuAnnH

Ok, I'm lazy but today has been long, where did someone find that sarah was actually abrahams sister?  I was talking with a friend about it today and she said I was wrong so I thought I'd come back and double check my facts.

moodyk13

Page 4 has Terah's family tree (Abraham's father) and you will see that Sarah is his 1/2 sister because of different mothers.  Now the scripture to solidify this is: 

Genesis 20:11 - 12 "And Abraham said, "Because I thought surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will kill me on account of my wife.  But indeed she is truly my sister.  She is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother and she became my wife."

This al took place when Abraham and Sarah were living with Abimelech and God came to Abimelech in a dream and told him he was a "dead" man because he was about to "lie" with Sarah.  Abimelech believed that God really spoke to him and he obeyed, but was mad at Abraham for saying Sarah was his sister, rather than identifying her as his wife.

Estepp

Just wanted to say I was still here reading and enjoying! I am not the lurker type, so every so often, I will jump in and say I am here too..:)

Enjoying it all, thank you!

Laura