Positive Obama thread

NoH8

Bachmann---  - how that woman got re elected is beyond me. She;'s an embarrassment.

laura- that's a very good sign. I've been hearing rumblings about Bush giving a blanket pardon to anyone who may have done anythinbg illegal working under him. The history books will not be kind to him. I hope all the people falsely held at gitmo sue the government for false imprisonment. I wish they could sue Bush personally. I'm really impress how Obama has his hands in so many different things at the same time. He;s a good multi tasker.

NoH8

rm- I don't think I'd want to be friends with either clinton and they wouldn't be my first choice to speak with at a cocktail party. I was pleased with the job Bill did, but he impresses me as a narcissist and n arcissists drive me nuts. I'd rather hear him speak than do it one on one. I would love to talk to Michelle Obama at a cocktail party and of course, Barack. Cheney and Bush- Id probably have to be restrained.... I don't think Cindy seems like a nice person, I don't didn't like the snarky comments she made about  Michelle Obama (when she talked about being proud of her country) and those about Barack either.  I don't like how she left her special needs daughter behind to campaign with her husband and how she stood behind him with that smile, nodding and clapping creeped me out.   At least the Palins had their kids with them on the trail even though I don't think parading them out was a good idea, particularly the baby. I have issues with the youngest needing bonding time and special early intervention stimulation and whether his best interests were taken into account. I think I'd want to be at a party with any Palin but Piper least of all, though Tina Fey would be fun. I;d love to talk to Jimmy Carter about his views of the middle east, because I think they have been misunderstood. I want to hear from the horse's mouth what he sees as the best way for peace.  I'd love to talk to Alan Greenspan about what he would do differently, knowing the outcome of deregulation. I'd like to talk to Condy Rice or Janet Reno too. I'd love, at a cocktail party, to talk to James Clayburn (sp?) and Jesse Jackson about their experiences with civil rights and I'd ask Jackson why at one point he wanted to cut off Obama's balls (his words, not mine).

Anonymous

Amy,

The McCains don't have a special needs daughter.  They adopted an infant in 1991 who is now a teenager who had a cleft palate.  The surgery was done (in 1991) but she didn't have any other disorders. Her name is Bridget and you can google her.  Cindy McCain was a special needs teacher.  She has done a lot of humanitarian work that has gone unnoticed by most people.  Basically, she has been shy about the spotlight and forced to try to let people get to know her.

LAphoenix

So, Joe the P. signed a book deal for $250,000.  I guess he'll be paying Obama's higher taxes after all!  That makes me feel a little better about it.  No doubt he will have a ghostwriter, who will be paid a few thousand to do the hard work of making him sound coherent. 

My DH reports hearing a rumor that Clinton, as in Bill, will be named Hillary's replacement in the Senate.  Now that would be a kick in the head!  I wouldn't want to be married to Bill, but he's a damn smart guy.   

bar62

<i>"I'm not sure how they were being killed in a sanitary way, what I saw was turkey after  nturkwheey being put in this machine to cut off their heads."</i>

Sanitary to me..since I said that even though I am post Decadron IV post AC #4 ...meant that when my  family slaughtered our chickens,  we did it manually  and  we  got bloody doing it. We hunted and ate  the rabbits we caught; I'm proud of how my family fed us. We  also ate fresh caught fish...yep  we had good eats all round .

There Is absolutely nothing wrong with knowing how the meat you eat...if you eat meat...gets slaughtered and served to you for dinner.

How did dog fighting get into a discussion about butchering Turkeys? Dog fighting is cruel and inhumane period. Butchering  meat for winter  can be prudent and cost saving for the family..if you eat meat.

I  never meant to upset anyone. Like Mke, I howled and thought  to  myself, OMG, this Palin person. She has to know how messed up she is. 

 Calling SNL:)  I can't wait until tonight.  They can't  let Sarah/Tina go because  Sarah  refuses to go off camera.  Well, it's an ill wind that blows nobody some good.

later...no more talk from me...for a while...

mina

NoH8

RM- I thought their adopted daughter was MR or some kind of intellectual disability? Maybe I'm wrong. I knew about her physical problems and the surgeries. She had a heart problem that was corrected too I believe. I thought Cindy worked in the family business.

LAP- From what I've heard about those rumors, they are false. Schumer, the SR  senator from NY, has a lot of pull in who Patterson choses. I would love to be married to someone as smart as Bill like Rachel Maddow. He's our only Rhodes Scholar president I believe. Bill's all wrong for me exept for his smarts, wrong gender, wrong personality, wrong ethics-- hehe. I remember when he was president and everyone was saying how good looking he was--- I never saw it.  I think Obama's good looking, Kennedy and Carter were too. Nixon- yikes, scary. I didn't see it in Reagan or Ford.  As for Joe the plumber, maybe now he can pay those back taxes he owes. That contract is just more proof how unfair life is-- lol-- a loser like him with a book deal? Unless it's some kind of picture book for kids, I'm quite sure there will be a ghost writer. You know what's scary? When people write books they go on----- book tours so we might have to turn the channels a lot when that book comes out.

Ivylane

Hi all....I think I need to clarify my comments about John Edwards. I agree that what goes on in relationships should remain private and I can't imagine any reason good enough to cheat on a spouse.  I am of the "leave the relationship if you are taking up with someone else" club....

The thing that frosts me about JE is that he thought (IMHO) that this wasn't going to become public.  What if he had won the nomination? It may have cost us the election.  I don't trust him now...not because he cheated, but because of how he conducted himself afterward. I do believe that he has a lot to offer in terms of  public service, but I think his political career is over.

Anonymous

i totally agree with you maureen, what if he had won the nomination? oh man, it would have been horrible. i don't trust him now either.

i have a real problem with the cheating part, i think my feelings for elizabeth add to it.  it is my personal baggage (father cheated on mother, divorce followed when i was 13) that shapes my views. 

it will take years before he has any skin in the game.

the rumour is some reporter got a diaper from the baby that he says is not his and now the reporter is just waiting to snag something with john's dna on it. can you imagine living under that cloud?

sad, the whole thing, very sad for the edwards family.

what an idiot to risk losing his beautiful family.

jmho.

Anonymous

Amy, her daughter is not mentally retarded ...  she's happy and healthy now.

Regarding Cindy:

Cindy McCain founded the American Voluntary Medical Team (AVMT).^[3] It was a non-profit organization that organized trips for doctors, nurses, and other medical personnel to provide MASH-like emergency medical care to disaster-struck or war-torn third-world areas such as Micronesia, Vietnam (before relations were normalized between them and the U.S.), Kuwait (arriving five days after the conclusion of the Gulf War), Zaire (to help refuges from the Rwandan genocide), Iraq, Nicaragua, India, Bangladesh and El Salvador.^[ She led 55 of these missions over the next seven years, with each being of at least two weeks' duration. AVMT also supplied treatment to poor sick children around the world. In 1993, Cindy McCain and the AVMT were honored with an award from Food for the Hungry.  Now she runs a charity for families in Arizona. 

She is the heiress to the beer company and the absentee owner.

---------

Man, that would sink JE if it was his baby!!!!

junie

have only skimmed recent posts.  Didn't/couldn't watch the "turkey" video--want to eat my turkey dinner without graphic images in my head....

Shirley..."in the arms of ..." animal commercial airs here frequently--I have to flip channels because it breaks my heart.   We have a 4-legged monster that frequents our local vet...DH found me in the lobby one day, in tears, because of a poster that depticted a family, car, dropping a dog off roadside because they didn't want it any longer--the dog in the poster was just happy as could be, looking at the car that was racing away--thinking they would be coming back for him at any minute--I still cannot look at that poster when we go to the vet's office.....

ok--getting down and dirty-----anyone else heard rumors/rag sheet reads of Cindy McCaine having a little bit of younger than John fun on the side in Arizona??????   

NoH8

mo- I totally agree with you about  Edwards.  What he could have done to the country and electiIons bothers me more than having an affair. I agree with you about if you're going to stray, just leave the marriage. His behavior could have effected all of us. Having an affair makes him untrustworthy to his wife. He lied to the public, and that makes him untrustworthy to the country.

junie- cindy straying wouldn't surprise me, she cheated with John so who's to say she wouldn't cheat on him. Look at Angelina Jolie,  cheated with Billy Bob when he was living with Laura Dern, cheated with Brad when he was married to Jen. Doing great things for the world doesn't mean someone is a good person.

laura- sorry to hear about your father cheating. I can see how that would shape your views.  For me I just know hearing one side of a situation second or third hand doesn't tell me much about what really happened between the couple.

As for the turkey video- I'm seriously thinking about going vegetarian. I've got a few in my family so I could get some nutrition advice from them. I like meat, but the visual makes me nauseous. Imagine Palin creating tons of vegetarians with that interview. She praised the farm owner, but what if he and others went out of business because of her poor decision doing the interview with slaughter in the background. Remember Oprah and the beef thing? 

LAphoenix

Amy, I was thinking the same thing about the turkey vid--that Palin has inadvertently hurt the poultry industry and created some vegetarian converts.  I heard someone say that the method used by that "farmer" is actually humane compared to other killing methods.  It's a small family farm at least.  I think Palin is so used to hunting and killing animals that she doesn't even think about how others might perceive it.  Maybe she's typical of a lot of Alaskans.  I don't know, but it shows again how out of touch with mainstream America she is. 

I have a hard time with the "in the arms of" commercial, too.  I think you'd have to have a pretty hard heart not to be moved by those images.  I couldn't get all the way through that Animal Planet show about the Katrina pets either.  I bet the Obamas adopting a rescue dog will encourage others to do the same.  If anybody can make mutts cool, they can.   

Like the way Obama is floating policy ideas and cabinet picks to the public.  He knows he can't seem too presumptuous, but also knows people and Wall Street are desperate for some plans!  And there's Bush still yakking about letting the free markets fix themselves.  In Peru, no less.    

   

Anonymous

The problem is not so much the way turkeys are killed as the manner in which they are raised by these turkey farmers.  Unbelievable cruelty is inflicted on these poor birds.  They may not have "souls" in the classic sense but certainly they must feel the pain inflicted them by their masters.  I know we need to feed the population but there is no excuse for the manner in which we treat other species of animals, imho.

sccruiser

I can't take the "arms of an angel" animal commercial either! I too, turn it off when it comes on. Just too heartbreaking. I give as much as I can to our local shelter--one of our "high on the list" of charitable organizations to donate money or supplies (like blankets, towels, food, etc.). And we adopt from shelters also--it's the rule at our house!

Yes, I did watch the Palin interview with the turkey slaughter in the background. And she just meandered on and on about nothing--just run-on sentences and incomplete thoughts strung together. I think it would be hysterical if this meant more vegetarians! Would really demonstrate how she takes something she thinks is positive and inadvertently turns it into negative! Talk about a ditsy person.

I still think all those top management people at the three American automakers should be fired. That's it. Or at least re-configure their salaries based on what the people at the bottom make--surely their salaries would not come anywhere near to $22mil--and I wish these bubble heads would stop blaming the unions for the automaking companies financial troubles. Come on. The blame belongs at the top! Unions play an important part in this country, and help lower incomes gain some "financial power" over their income and benefits. If we were without unions in this country, we might as well go back to the beginning of the industrial age, when the people who made the goods worked 12-15 hrs a day in dark, dingy warehouses, sometimes 6 days a week, and dare not get sick our the big bad owner would hire another person to take the place! All those Dickens novels ring a bell?

It's time the masses had some say in what goes on in this country. It's time our voices are listened to and the words used to change how business operates in this country. I don't think the lower and middle classes are going to stand much more being beaten down.

Happy Sunday all, 

Anonymous

Blaest, that Palin video really caused pain for a lot of us.  But maybe that's a good thing.  I was a student of anthropology and I understand enough about human nutrition to know that we by and large require the kind of concentrated protein we get in animal and fish resources, like it or not we are close to the top of the food chain (cats are at the very top).

But when I was vacationing this summer in Maine I saw free range chickens that were the happiest of creatures..there were signs , "Chickens outside the fence are OK.  Don't lurk too closely"  (they obviously came home at night). They were all sorts of colors--from rust allover to speckled to black and white--- and looked like fluffy, feathery pillows.  They seems to be enjoying themselves immensely, talking to each other constantly, relating, very busy every minute each day.  There was kind of cave in the ground where they could go at night.  They were well fed and happy.  So...if they have a happy life and get to relate to each other in a positive way and have positive group dynamics, and then one day they suddenly die...what more could one wish for in life?  To die happy, fulfilled, without wrinkles or shame?

What really upsets me is to see young lambs and calves slaughtered.  To see them walking in line to slaughter like prisoners in a Nazi camp, hearing the groans, being afraid, and then having it happen to them...that is awful and should never happen.

Junie...Cindy McCaine having affairs??!!!!  A scandal for the Republicans?  How delicious!!!  But we must not stoop, we must not bow the low tactics that they have used to victimize some of our best democrats.  The National Enquirer did get some shots of Cindy necking with a hippy, but it was April 2006...now isn't that getting a trifle scummy?!!&***(!!!  Come on now, if you were a pretty lady married to John McCain, wouldn't it be nice to have a loose night out, to forget yourself, to be romantic...just for a couple hours????  Give the lady a break!!!

Rocktober Mom...I downloaded Firefox and I like it just fine.  Thanx for the advice.

Linora

Anonymous

linora, working abroad I have had an opportunity to see slaughter houses in operation and to work on chicken farms.  Seeing the cattle shot and then hung up on a hook turned me away from eating virtually all red meat since that time.  Certainly I would never eat a McDonald's hamburger.  I especially though remember the chicken farm (which I worked on for two days), in which chickens were grabbed by one leg and stuffed live into a small crate, ten or so per crate, on their way to slaughter.  The cruelty to these animals was beyond belief.  Its even worse here in the States where they essentially grow on top of each other, having no room for "play" or probably even to breathe.  Its a good thing those turkeys are stupid so that they hopefully don't remember what is happening to them one moment to the next.  Yea we need protein but we don't have to treat animals so inhumanely.  With the farmers its all about profit, not decency or humanity for animals on the lower rungs of the chain.  But that's the way it works with people too.  That's why the elites in the bush administration had no problem sending the children of the less fortunate off to slaughter in Iraq.

djd

Did anyone else see the letter that Candace Gingrich wrote to her brother Newt on Huffington Post?  I think it's fantastic, but I doubt that the Newt or the rest of the thick-headed haters will get the message:

***************

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/candace-gingrich/a-letter-to-my-brother-ne_b_145739.html

Dear Newt,

I recently had the displeasure of watching you bash the protestors of the Prop 8 marriage ban to Bill O'Reilly on FOX News. I must say, after years of watching you build your career by stirring up the fears and prejudices of the far right, I feel compelled to use the words of your idol, Ronald Reagan, "There you go, again."

However, I realize that you may have been a little preoccupied lately with planning your resurrection as the savior of your party, so I thought I would fill you in on a few important developments you might have overlooked.

The truth is that you're living in a world that no longer exists. I, along with millions of Americans, clearly see the world the way it as -- and we embrace what it can be. You, on the other hand, seem incapable of looking for new ideas or moving beyond what worked in the past.

Welcome to the 21st century, big bro. I can understand why you're so afraid of the energy that has been unleashed after gay and lesbian couples had their rights stripped away from them by a hateful campaign. I can see why you're sounding the alarm against the activists who use all the latest tech tools to build these rallies from the ground up in cities across the country.

This unstoppable progress has at its core a group we at HRC call Generation Equality. They are the most supportive of full LGBT equality than any American generation ever -- and when it comes to the politics of division, well, they don't roll that way. 18-24 year olds voted overwhelmingly against Prop 8 and overwhelmingly for Barack Obama. And the numbers of young progressive voters will only continue to grow. According to the Center for Information and Research on Civic Learning, about 23 million 18-29 year olds voted on Nov. 4, 2008 -- the most young voters ever to cast a ballot in a presidential election. That's an increase of 3 million more voters compared to 2004.

These are the same people who helped elect Barack Obama and sent a decisive message to your party. These young people are the future and their energy will continue to drive our country forward. Even older Americans are turning their backs on the politics of fear and demagoguery that you and your cronies have perfected over the years.

This is a movement of the people that you most fear. It's a movement of progress -- and your words on FOX News only show how truly desperate you are to maintain control of a world that is changing before your very eyes.

Then again, we've seen these tactics before. We know how much the right likes to play political and cultural hardball, and then turn around and accuse us of lashing out first. You give a pass to a religious group -- one that looks down upon minorities and women -- when they use their money and membership roles to roll back the rights of others, and then you label us "fascists" when we fight back. You belittle the relationships of gay and lesbian couples, and yet somehow neglect to explain who anointed you the protector of "traditional" marriage. And, of course, you've also mastered taking the foolish actions of a few people and then indicting an entire population based on those mistakes. I fail to see how any of these patterns coincide with the values of "historic Christianity" you claim to champion.

Again, nothing new here. This is just more of the blatant hypocrisy we're used to hearing.

What really worries me is that you are always willing to use LGBT Americans as political weapons to further your ambitions. That's really so '90s, Newt. In this day and age, it's embarrassing to watch you talk like that. You should be more afraid of the new political climate in America, because, there is no place for you in it.

In other words, stop being a hater, big bro.

• *******************

NoH8

djd= Great letter. Thanks for posting it. I feel sorry for Candace with him as a brother. I sure hope for her sake she was the black sheep of the family.

Anonymous

I don't know if the rest of your are aware the Citigroup is now suddenly in trouble...I say suddenly because we had been watching Citigroup for the past months, and it was doing very well when other stocks were falling.  We were also concerned because this is the company that bought the banks that owned our mortgages and credit card.  These are our liabilities and the company's assets and I don't know how we would be affected if Citigroup caved in, but I do know it was one of the few remaining healthy financial institutions in the country.

Well, apparently it is now in trouble.  I took a look at Robert Reich's blog today, and this is what he says about it...

Today it was decided the government will guarantee more than $300 billion of troubled mortgages and other assets of Citigroup under a federal plan to stabilize the lender after its stock fell 60 percent last week. The company will also will get a $20 billion cash infusion from the Treasury Department, adding to the $25 billion the bank received last month under the Troubled Asset Relief Program.

This is not a particularly good deal for American taxpayers, but it is a marvelous deal for Citi. In return for all the cash and guarantees they are giving away, taxpayers will get only $27 billion of preferred shares paying an 8 percent dividend. No other strings are attached. The senior executives of Citi, including those who have served at the highest levels in the US government, have done their jobs exceedingly well. The American public, including the media, have not the slightest clue what just happened.

Meanwhile, more than a million workers in the automobile industry, along with six million mortgagees, and a millions of Americans who depend on small businesses and retailers for paychecks, are getting nothing at all.

What should WE think about this?  Were we stupid about not bailing out the auto industry?  I don't know.  I think I tend to disagree with Reich here.  It seems important to have some financial institutions that are healthy..especially if they were not at fault in decision making.  On the other hand, these bailouts increase the national debt, eroding Obama's ability to finance the programs he plans to rebuild the nation's infrastructure.

This is all so over my head...

Linora

pinoideae

What Happens If More Banks Fail?

Like IndyMac, Analysts Predict There Will Be More Banks That Won't Survive

By IEVA M. AUGSTUMS
AP Business Writer
July 15, 2008

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) -- The government's seizure of IndyMac Bank raises concerns for many consumers about whether their banks might be next.

While it is unlikely the nation will see thousands of banks fail as they did during the savings and loan industry collapse in the late 1980s and early '90s, analysts predict there will be more battered financial institutions that are unable to survive in today's marketplace.

"IndyMac's failure is certainly a broader issue," said Eva Weber, an analyst at Aite Group, a financial services research firm. "Those who are trenched in more risky business, who are feeling more heavy losses, may be at more risk."

On Friday, the Office of Thrift Supervision transferred control of the California lender to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. because it did not think IndyMac could meet its depositors' demands. By Monday, the bank reopened as IndyMac Federal Bank, FSB, and customers whose deposits were insured by the FDIC were able to access full banking services, including online banking, during normal business hours.

IndyMac, like many of the nation's banks, was facing pressures of tighter credit, tumbling home prices and rising foreclosures. In recent weeks it had experienced a run on the bank, with depositors pulling out $100 million a day.

Here are some questions and answers about the government's role when a bank fails and if other banks are at risk:

Q: Why did the government seize IndyMac's assets?

A: Regulators closed IndyMac after customers began a run on the lender following the June 26 release of a letter by Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., urging several bank regulatory agencies that they take steps to prevent IndyMac's collapse. In the 11 days that followed the letter's release, depositors took out more than $1.3 billion, regulators said.

In a statement Friday, Schumer said IndyMac's failure was due to long-standing practices by the bank, not recent events. And on Sunday, he noted that IndyMac was more heavily involved in originating riskier mortgages than traditional community and regional banks, which weakened the bank's finances.

The financial institution spent the last two weeks trying to reassure customers that it was not near default, including announcing that it had stopped accepting new loan submissions and planned to slash 3,800 jobs, or more than half of its work force.

Q: What happens when the government takes over a bank?

A: In such a scenario, called a conservatorship, a bank's regulator takes control of the company and oversees their operations. The move is to maximize the value of the institution for a future sale and to maintain banking services in the communities formerly served by the bank.

Q: Is my bank at risk?

A: John Bovenzi, the former chief operating officer of the FDIC put in charge of IndyMac, reassured consumers late Sunday that bank failures have been rare in the past, and that if more banks do fail, the government has enough in reserve. According to regulatory policy, there is no advance notice given to the public before a bank's assets are seized by federal regulators.

"I think the important point to make is that, historically, only a very small percentage of the banks on our problem banks list ever failed," Bovenzi said on CNN. "While there are 90 banks on the list, there would be no expectation that 90 of those banks would fail."

According to the FDIC, IndyMac is the fifth U.S. bank or thrift that has failed this year. In 2007, only three financial institutions failed, a small number when compared to the 2,808 institutions that failed between 1982 and 1992.

Q: How can I make sure my money is safe?

A: All deposit accounts worth $100,000 and less are automatically insured by the FDIC. Many retirement accounts, such as IRAs and 401(k)s, are insured to $250,000 per person. But since it's a person's aggregate deposits, and not their individual accounts, that are insured, any amounts over $100,000 deposited at any one bank are not covered.

In a joint account, each depositor is insured up to $100,000.

The FDIC has information about its insurance on its Web site, at http://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/insured/yid.pdf.

While keeping more than the limit at any bank means taking a chance, the risks can be bigger with smaller companies, provided they're heavily exposed to mortgage and other debt during the current downturn.

"Consumers may want to pick an institution that has a substantial brand," Weber said. "But you don't necessarily want to run to a big bank because you think a smaller bank is going to fail."

Q: How much money does the FDIC have?

A: The FDIC has nearly $53 billion in insurance funds. Beyond that figure, Bovenzi said the FDIC would have go to other banks to raise more money, adding that in such a case, consumers could expect to see some of that amount passed on to them in the form of higher fees.

The current estimated loss to the FDIC resulting from IndyMac's failure is between $4 billion and $8 billion.

Q: How big does FDIC like to keep its deposit insurance fund?

A: The FDIC board of directors has set a Designated Reserve Ratio of 1.25 percent. That means their "target" balance for the fund is 1.25 percent of estimated insured deposits. As of March 31, the fund was $52.843 billion and insured deposits were $4.431 trillion, which resulted in a reserve ratio of 1.19 percent, 0.06 percentage point below the Board's target. If the fund falls below 1.15 percent of estimated insured deposits, the FDIC is required by law to adopt a restoration plan that will bring the reserve ratio back to 1.15 percent within five years.

Q: Do banks have to pay into the deposit insurance fund?

A: Yes. The total amount depends upon the assessment rate assigned to the institution and the size of their assessment base -- which is roughly equal to an institution's total domestic deposits. Assessment rates are assigned to institutions based upon the risk they pose to the fund, and currently range from 0.05 percent to 0.43 percent, with the vast majority of institutions -- almost 94 percent -- paying between 0.05 percent and 0.07 percent.

Q: Does the government's decision to aide Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac help the nation's banks?

A: Tony Plath, an associate professor of finance at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, says yes. "As mortgage money becomes harder to get and real estate prices go down even more, the solvency of many banks is called into question," Plath said. "The Fed is moving to protect the solvency of the banking industry by maintaining integrity."

Even so, the exact outcome is left to be seen, Weber said.

"One must have a bit of faith in the FDIC that they are going to be able to take care of whomever fails," she said.

Anonymous

Summer...thanx for this article.  It deals with the issue of what happens to our savings but that was not been my concern...individual savings accounts have been insured by the FDIC since the 1930s.

What is my concern is what happens to credit, small business investment, and big business? What happens to BIG MONEY?  Big money is essential in any kind of free economy based on capital investment.  What happens when the bank that holds your mortgage fails?  

With so many banks failing, the gov't would have lots of banks to take over, and can gov't employees really run banks better than the bank professionals themselves????  And with so many banks going under, where is all this expertise and personnel going to come from?

We need to have healthy *private* financial institutions..to issue credit, manage mortgages, finance business and the like.  If we had no healthy banking institutions, and the government took over most of the banks, then we'd have a nationalized banking system...quite simply, socialism, a "managed" economy and I am not sure that is what we want. Or do we? 

Is socialism the next step?  I guess it would be less wasteful.

Linora

NoH8

I can't  turn on the news without hearing about citibank or the financial crisis. I don't know why so many people think socialism is a bad thing. 60 minutes did a segment on the happiest (most satisfied, least depressed) country on earth. It was the frigid country of denmark with the frigid weather, little sunlight in the winter, and socialized economy. The USA might have great healthcare--- but not everyone has access to it.  I'm not suggesting that complete socialism is the way to go, but that there are positive aspects of it. We have socialized education, unless parents choose to send their children to private school. Countries that have socialzied medicine often have the option of private insurance which can be given through the employer or self purchased, so the weathly can still get extra if they prefer.  Most countries  in europe have both socialism yet are also democracies, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

djd

Regarding Prop Hate, Princeton students are making a statement of their own, quite effectively, IMO.

******************************

CAMPAIGN TO REMOVE FRESHMEN FROM SIDEWALKS IN SECOND SUCCESSFUL WEEK
11/24/08--Princeton, NJ

A group of students at Princeton University would like to eliminate the right of freshmen to walk on campus sidewalks. Stating that they would like to "preserve traditional sidewalk values" that define a sidewalk as a "pathway for sophomores, juniors, seniors, graduate students, faculty, staff, and other members of the university community," the group, which is acting in support of a measure termed "Princeton Proposition 8," is now entering its second successful week of demonstration.

The students emphasize that they are not "froshophobic" and that some of their best friends are freshmen, but they maintain that freshmen on the sidewalk degrade the sacred institution of sidewalks, and jeopardize the validity of upperclassmen's own perambulation. It also makes some of them uncomfortable. They are very excited that California's Proposition 8 has set a clear precedent for a majority to eliminate a minority group's civil rights, and they see it as a perfect opportunity to utilize this development for their own gain.

The demonstration, which has featured signs, chants, and original music, has collected almost 500 signatures for a petition in support of Princeton Proposition 8, including those of many professors and even University President Shirley M. Tilghman. A video report of the protest produced by the University's 'Daily Princetonian' has received 21,000 views on YouTube in just two days. It has also been featured on dozens of regional and national blogs including Campus Progress Action's Pushback, DailyKos, and Andrew Sullivan's Daily Dish. The organizers of the demonstration have also begun outreach to other universities.

The demonstration will continue at the plaza in front of Firestone Library on the Princeton campus between 9:30 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. on Monday 11/24 and Tuesday 11/25.

The Princeton Proposition 8 campaign aims to secure the definition of Princeton University sidewalks as a means of pedestrian transit for sophomores, juniors, seniors, graduate students, faculty, staff, and other members of the university community, but supports the elimination of the right of freshmen to walk on sidewalks.

Only walking on sidewalks by sophomores, juniors, and senior students is valid or recognized at Princeton.

###

Contact: Christopher Simpson
cjsimpso@princeton.edu

NoH8

That's great donna! You should post that on the republican thread too!

Don't forget about Obama's news conference at 12:00 EST where he'll be rolling out his economic team and answering questions. I'll be interested to see what the stock market does in response.

Anonymous

I don't necessarily think Socialism is a bad thing, but socialism requires a lot of planning...a lot more planning than we have in government right now.  I am not even sure our legal system can accomodate it.

Anyway...things are happening very fast and some of them may have unforeseen consequences.  It's a bit scary.

 Linora

djd

"ObamasPresidentWeWon wrote:

That's great donna! You should post that on the republican thread too!"

Amy - I would if I thought it would be constructive...

NoH8

roflmao--- good point. It'd go over the heads that need it most.

djd

Oh lordy - I have too much time on my hands (waiting till 4:00 pm to take Simon to the vet).  I ventured over "there" and couldn't believe what I read.  It's simply amazing to me what some people really believe.  They would be so much happier if they would join us in the 21st century.

LAphoenix

Linora, thanks for the Princeton article.  I think those "social experiments" are often an effective way to open people's eyes to discrimination.  

Here's another example of why "the majority has spoken" argument is bogus:  In 1962, Californians passed by a two-to-one margin a proposition making discrimination in housing legal.  The courts overturned the proposition based on constitutional protections.  Just because a majority of people vote for discrimination doesn't make it morally, or even legally, correct.  Sometimes the majority is wrong!  And in the case of California, the majority has been steadily shrinking.   

Nice to see two progressive women on Obama's economic team.  Melody Barnes is very impressive.  Go ladies! 

LAphoenix

I should add that Melody Barnes is very attractive . . . and I still think she's impressive! 

Ten Well Dressed Women: Melody Barnes

Ten women share their fashion advice, their places to shop-and their fashion disasters.

By Leslie Milk    Published Monday, October 01, 2007

Photograph by Matthew Worden

Melody Barnes, 43

Executive vice president for policy, Center for American Progress

How would you describe your style?

Understated but interesting. I like clean, elegant lines, and I love it when a piece has surprising detail.

Where do you like to shop?

Frances Kahn in my hometown of Richmond. The owner, Rusty Lester, does a great job of buying fun, new designers as well as classics. The assistant manager, Julie Bristow, knows my taste and what's in my closet. I shop once in the spring and once in the fall. My mom comes along, and everyone is wonderful to her. I have a glass of wine, we laugh and catch up, and it's efficient. I don't like to spend a lot of time shopping.

What do you splurge on?

I love a beautiful suit. Wear the entire suit and you're professional and put together. Put the jacket on with a pair of jeans and you're ready for a fun dinner. I also have a crazy collection of Wolford tights. They're a small detail that makes an outfit more interesting.

What outfit always makes you feel terrific?

In public, my Blue Cult jeans. I have them in dark denim, white, and other colors. At home, my favorite sweatpants, which lost elastic in the waist years ago. I just keep rolling them up.

What was your worst fashion disaster?

That's a toss up. I loved my purple crushed-velvet, bell-bottom hip huggers from elementary school-but in retrospect, not a good idea. Many years ago, I wore a hot-pink-and-black dress to a New Year's Eve party-scary.

What's the best fashion advice you've ever received?

The best life advice I've received is also the best fashion advice: Be authentic. You shouldn't wear it just because it's in style or looks good on somebody else. You have to know who you are and honor that.