Positive Obama thread

LAphoenix

anneshirley,

I was requesting that you respect the clearly stated topic of this thread and not post if you feel so negatively about Obama. There are other threads where you can, and apparently do, post.  And you can easily create your own "Let's Talk About Obama" thread and those who want to engage you in a debate of "facts" can.  It's not about constitutional or legal rights, private or public, but respect for the commonly understood guidelines for boards like these.  Call me crazy, but I think thread topics should be respected.  They're an expression of a person's needs and feelings.  We extend ourselves when we create one, and it's reasonable to expect responses that are in line with the topic (in this case "positive").  You may have said positive things about Obama in the past, but I don't see any here.  But yeah, you're absolutely free to post here, and I'm free to ask you not to and to block your comments.     

Amy G.       

anneshirley

Amy G--this is a BC board and with respect to BC, you're correct about community guidelines.  With respect to politics--and this is a political thread--any and all criticism is acceptable if  backed by facts. I blogged for Clinton last winter and at least half of the posts were from Obama supporters trashing her, her daughter, her husband and her supporters.  And very few facts, but that's politics.  If you introduce politics on a BC board one should expect a discussion of the candidates' positions, not a celebration.  But as I said, I'll stay away in the future.  I only came back on because I noticed something that I had to mention. 

Spar--I just realized, it was you who posted all those incorrect figures on the other thread concerning Obama's tax plan suggesting that if he were elected he was going to send us all to the poor house. I''m confused; have you changed your candidate from McCain to Obama, or are you just angry at me because I challenged your facts?. I hope the former since I'm still concerned about the Supreme Court. . 

Ivylane

Anne Shirley....do you have a job????  Or is THIS IT?  Give it a rest already..  this is a POSITIVE thread.   The other two threads are more in line with what you have to say.  No one is questioning your rights to your opinions, but this thread was started for a purpose.  It seems to me that you are just hell bent on spouting off your so-called "facts" to try to either convince yourself or to try and impress others with your "vast knowledge" of all things wrong with Obama. In either case it's BORING...  have a good evening.

NoH8

Let's get back to positivity! I'm glad to know there are others who are in favor of Obama. I would have a hard time voting for Hillary if she were the candidate and I would want to write Obama's name in, If Obama enthusiastically asking me to support Hillary, I would vote for her begrudgingly. I think if Obama doesn't win and the polls show Hillary was not able to sway her voters, there will be a backlash against her and Bill, whether rightly or wrongly so and it won't bode well for her in the future. I've come around enough to realize I won't be disgusted if Obama choses Hillary as his running mate, although I admit to still feeling bitter about the way she and Bill campaigned against Obama.

I hope this campaign can be respectful from both sides of the aisle. I expect some "swift vote" ads, but I hope that both McCain and Obama will denounce anything that's blatantly mean or unfair.

Since my car melted in the fire, volunteering for the campaign is going to be more challenging for me. While it's a concern, I'm not going to deal with that until I'm home and back to my normal life because my mind can only be split in so many directions at one time.

NoH8

Today is a big day--- 200 more days until Obama is inaugurated!!!! I have a countdown on my home page and have been counting down for over a year!

LAphoenix

Amy,

I like your positive thinking!  My daughter's junior class is going to D.C. for the inauguration, and we're all praying they will be swearing in a Democrat.  I'm sure it will be a wonderful educational experience either way, but so much more historic and fun if it's Obama at the podium.

I also hope the campaign doesn't slide into ugly swift-boating, but with the news today that a Rove protogee is taking over McCain's campaign, I'm bracing for the worst.  They say McCain is "re-focusing" his energies.   

I was happy to read about Obama's volunteerism speech.  Although JFK had his problems, one thing he can take credit for is motivating young people to join in civic activities.  I think my daughter has already been similarly inspired by Obama.

I admit to being a little nervous about the faith-based initiative thing, though.  I know that, as a constitutional lawyer, Obama is well aware of the separation issues, but I wonder how closely these groups can be monitored over time.  There are so many administrative layers at the federal level it might be easy for a few overzealous types to cross the line.  I don't question the sincerity of his support, however, as he worked well with Catholic groups in Chicago.

I'm sure there will still be plenty for you to do on the campaign once you've got your house literally in order!  

Amy G.

BethNY

I was the typical NY hillary supporter.  I still love her.  What I don't like is hearing all this anger and mean posts to each other.

I would never vote for McCain.  Ever. As much as I wanted Hillary to be his rival, the majority of the country spoke, and Obama has taken that role.  I believe the views of my party are what's most important.  I don't want to ever imagine living in a world where we have four more years of the nightmare that Bush created.

I wish Hillary would get the veep position, because I feel that it would secure a win for us, but if that doesn't happen, I am still prepared to vote for Obama to lead this amazing country. 

I'm ready for change.  In my mind Obama is far from my perfect ideal candidate, but I feel that writing in Hillary on the ballot would be doing a disservice for the future of the country.

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say.

AnnNYC

Beth!  Well said!

sccruiser

I really liked Obama's "clarification" with a second news conference! He wanted to make sure the public knows that McCain's spokesperson misinterpreted his remarks in the am.

I liked what he had to say about the war in Iraq, and how he plans to work towards ending it. And that the important work is in Afghanistan. Bush derailed the effort to get Bin Laden with the Bush's Folly as I call it, and left our troops understaffed and underfunded. Looks like that will change with Barack. He was very clear on what he would do and how he would do it.

I don't get all the rants against Obama--that he speaks in generalizations. I clearly hear his message and what he plans to do. He can't speak hypothetically as a president doesn't run the country on hypothetical issues. McCain is just getting left in the dust. He is past his prime, I am sorry to say. It isn't about ageism, it's about a Bushy 3rd term with someone who is out of touch with the majority of America. He is not listening to what the American people have said is important to them. He will continue a war that we cannot win.

Go Barack!!!! Go Democrats!!!! it is time for CHANGE!! Whoo-hoo!! 

NoH8

Grace, i think the rants are the way people have prejudged him use as an excuse to say negative things about him.

I was disappointed to hear him say that he doesn't think emotional distress is a reason for a late term abortion, and I sincerlely hope that he meant it as a personal belief, not as a legislative philosophy. He's never voted for any abortion restrictions and I hope he doesn't start now. The whole reasons Roe v. Wade was decided was on the medical right to privacy, so I don't see how the reason for an abortion fits into that decision. I think Obama was a constitutional lawyer too. I understand politically why he needs to play to the middle and those may be his personal beliefs which I can't criticize him about.

Beesie

Amy, it is completely unfair to say that those of us who dislike/distrust Obama feel this way simply because we prejudged him.  I know a lot of people who are strongly anti-Obama (yes, real live Americans); many of these people initially supported him and most others were open to supporting him.  What changed is that these people learned more about Obama and heard more from him.  Anyone I know who dislikes/distrusts Obama feels this way for very specific reasons related to Obama's pronouncements, positions, methods of campaigning, choice of advisors, etc. etc..  If anyone has prejudged Obama, is it his legion of rabid supporters, who interpret rather than hear what he says, who make excuses or create justifications for every flip-flop and inconsistency, who ignore every red flag about his judgement (or lack of same), etc. etc..  I'm not suggesting all his supporters are that way, but many seem be like a fawning 15 year old girl who's experiencing her first love.  "Oh, he's just sooooo perfect.  He can do no wrong!!"    

Okay, I know.  I'm not welcome here.  But I didn't come to knock Obama; I came to defend those who dislike/distrust him who you've maligned.  

I'm leaving now.....     

Ivylane

Hi all:  I hope everyone had a nice 4th of July.  It is muggy and gross here in upstate NY, but I'll take it.

 I wanted to publicly apologize to Anne Shirley.  My comments of a few days ago were insensitive and were not very nice.  I still disagree, but my remarks should not have been personal.  I hope she accepts my apology (as well as all of you) as, this IS, afterall, the Positive thread.   Have a good night everyone. 

AnnNYC

I really don't want John McCain as my president.  A Democratic presidential candidate doesn't have to be perfect, and incapable of doing wrong, to be better than having a Republican in office, AFAIC.

I still detest Maureen Dowd, an ostensible "liberal", for calling John Kerry a "loser" on David Letterman during the 2004 campaign -- and if things had worked out a little differently, that is, if Obama had conceded the nomination to Hillary Clinton, I would detest ostensible "liberals" continuing to say worse things about HClinton than about McCain.

There was a huge difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush, IMO -- notwithstanding the beliefs of the Nader purists/spoilers in 2000!  No politician is perfect or pure!  Hillary Clinton has her flaws and Barack Obama has his, but I would vastly prefer either one over John McCain or ANY Republican!  I think HC and BO both realize that, so why can't their respective supporters?

anneshirley

Blue--I said I wouldn't come back, and I won't for political purposes.  But I do appreciate very much your apology, accept it, and realize that we're both probably very close in political views, just something of a deviation regarding Obama.  I agree with Beesie and although I respect AnnNYC's view, I don't agree. I believe we have to stick with what we believe in and not settle--at least that's what works for me. Otherwise, nothing really changes, and we get Republican Light instead of real progress. But room for every view. My last comment on this thread.

Thanks again--big of you, and much appreciated.

Blundin2005

Blue,

Thank you.

"Never run faster than your guardian angel can fly"

LorenaB

Thanks for this interesting discussion.  I haven't really read any of the other political threads, so I have to say, I don't have a problem with Anne Shirley or anyone else voicing their intelligent objections to Obama (as opposed to the ignorant, racist comments such as those that Amy mentioned early on).  I always think it is good to hear reasoned arguments that I don't necessarily agree with -- it helps me to clarify my own positions. 

I was not 100% committed to Obama until I heard/read his speech in response to the incident with his minister.  I thought the speech was brilliant, thoughtful, and expressed so many important points that a large majority of people in this country do not ever think about.  Diversity, race, culture, ethnic pluralism, all the complex issues that go along with these labels, are very central to my life (personal and professional) and I want to have a President who is both a representative of where our country is going, and has the ability to eloquently express what it means to him and to all of us.  I would be thrilled to be able to say to my seven-year-old son that "our president's dad was born in another country, just like your Papa!"

NoH8

Beesie, not sure where you read in my post that EVERYONE who has anything negative to say about Obama fits into that scenario and I'm not sure why you assumed that is what I meant. Your response tells me that you've got some kind of axe to grind about Obama and I find it insulting that you assume Obama supporters are like teenage swooners. Everyone who's posted here supporting Obama has written thoughtful, intelligent reasons why they want to Obama or at least why they don't want McCain as president and are voting for obama.

Ann, you ask a really good question. Obama and Hillary were never very far apart on the issues and I think a number  of those defecting to McCain seem to be doing so on personality issues (note to anyone who disagrees-- I did not say ALL). If Hillary has been the nominee the hurdle to my voting for her would be the way she (and Bill on her behalf) campaigned, which I complained about all throughout the campaign. I wouldn't be such a strong supporter of Obama if he has gotten down and dirty.

Lorena, your thoughts are very eloquent and I think having a president who doesn't fit into the middle aged male WASP mold that the 43 previous presidents had speaks volumes to our country and to the world. Obama's speech on race gave me chills, he really speaks to me in so many ways on so many levels. I don't agree with all of his policies, but I do understand where he's coming from on most. I am willing to compromise on many of my liberal stances in the name of unity, but not as much my liberal social issues. The other political threads have become anti Obama threads, which is why I made this thread for people who support Obama, since we are outnumbered on these boards.

Beesie

Amy, I agree.  You didn't say that everyone who has negative things to say about Obama fits into that scenario (i.e. they've pre-judged him), but my point was that I believe that very few of the people who dislike/distrust Obama feel the way they do because they've pre-judged him.  So although I understand that you weren't referring to "everyone", frankly I'm not sure who at all you were referring to.  It's interesting however that you now speak to me personally and say that I seem to have "an axe to grind about Obama".  In fact, if you've read my posts since the very beginning of these political threads months ago, you'll see that I've provided lots of rationale for my dislike and distrust of Obama.  You'll also see that I came to my current position gradually over time - I never was an Obama supporter, but I said that I hoped that over time I would see his strengths and come to support and admire him.  In fact, the opposite has happened.  If you read my posts, you can see my documentation of the events & statements & actions that drove me to my current position.  So to suggest that I simply have an axe to grind is about as far off base as you can possibly be.

As for my comment about Obama supporters, I was very careful to say that "I'm not suggesting all his supporters are that way".  Having said that, I find it interesting that you continue to make comments to the effect that you believe that Obama ran a clean campaign, i.e. he didn't get "down and dirty".  Amy, I don't think there is a single member of the fawning press (which is some but not all of the press) that even thinks that anymore.  Everybody (present company excepted of course) acknowledges that Obama was just as dirty as the rest, he simply did it differently (or more to the point, he usually had others do it for him).  The fact that you continue to believe that Obama is honorable and above politics (my words not yours, but they seem to reflect your position over these months) suggests that my earlier description of Obama supporters might just be a good fit for you. 

AnnNYC, even though Clinton and Obama are now doing the nicey-nicey thing, it doesn't automatically mean that all Clinton's supporters will or should jump to Obama.  Many will, but not all Clinton's supporters will agree with your statement that any Democratic is better than any Republican.  I appreciate that this is how you feel but for each individual Clinton supporter, what they do now depends on why they were supporting Clinton and what positions and characteristics are most important to them in a President.  Some of Obama's flaws may just be too much for some Clinton supporters.  I don't get a vote but if I did, of all the issues & concerns I have with Obama, the one that would cause me to not vote for him would be his choice of advisors and inner circle - some of them are just plain scary in their positions on the world and these are the people who are likely to end up in powerful positions in the administration (and no, I'm not referring to Rev. Wright but to Obama's political advisors).  That would be the show-stopper for me.

NoH8

Beesie, I stay away from the anti Obama threads and posts on this board (though not everywhere). I agree with what you said about Clinton supporters not automatically going to Obama, but I think that it will be a test of her strength as a potential leader how many of those supporters she can bring over If there is an appearance that she hasn't been able to persuade her voters on issues of personality vs. policy, all of the pundits say she will be blamed for his loss and I agree with that. She and Bill have almost as much to lose as Obama in this election. I have nothing against you, Beesie, I just think it would be nice to have one thread for people who want Obama to win in the election, since you already have more than one thread for those who do not want that.

Beesie

Amy, if Obama loses the election, it will be his fault, not Clinton's. 

If you want the non-Obama supporters to stay away from this thread, then please don't insult them (and me in particular, as you did in your earlier post).  I came here only to defend the non-Obama supporters who you characterized as "pre-judging" Obama.  I said that I would leave, and I would have, had you not then characterized me.  Really, as long as I'm not being insulted (either individually or as part of a group), I'm happy to stay away.  You folks can have a jolly old time talking to those of like mind who won't challenge your opinions.  Personally, I prefer intellectual debate, which by definition requires differing viewpoints.  

Cheers!

NoH8

i never said it would be clinton's fault--I said she will be blamed by the democratic party operatives. You seem to deliberately misinterpret what I say, An intellectual debate folks not to deliberately misinterpret, so cheers off to your negative thread. Beesie, insults and all and I was hoping this thread could stay free of that, but I can give as good as I take if need be. It would be nice not to have to deal with the parsing of words. I understand those who supported hillary still have raw feelings, but there's no need to take everything as an insult when the intention wasn't that way. Feel free to pm me if you want to continue to bicker, lets keep it off the thread. Cheers.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyhoo, how do Obama supporters feel about obama and Hillary co-fundraising and him helping her pay off her debts. I know this is the usual way of doing things, but it leaves me with a bad taste since Hillary kept on long after it was clear she would not have the delegates needed-- so that wasn't, in my opinion, money well spent. Also, does the "paying off of debts" include the money she loaned her own campaign? To me this is almost (note that I said ALMOST) akin to bribery, if not legally then in the spirit of the definition. It just doesn't seem right to me to help pay off her attack ads. She had every right to continue even though she couldn't win, but when dealing with money she didn't have, it seems strange to help her with those debts. What do other Obama supporters think?

I often wonder how many wonderful presidential candidates never bother to run because of the nastiness of campaigns, the way the media digs into personal things and sometimes misrepresents it.

BethNY

well obama did write Hillary a check for the maximum donation to her campaign, and then she wrote him a check for his...

I think it's something he's doing to sway and get the trust of the clinton supporters, and I'm surprised you wouldn't see that clear as day.

LAphoenix

Madalyn: I deliberately stayed away from the general political threads when I saw how combative they were.  I know some people enjoy that kind of discussion, and that's totally fine with me, but it's not for everyone.  Although I'm an Obama supporter, I've never liked the Hillary bashing and stopped listening to Randi Rhodes on Air America for that very reason.  I don't think it's weird for any of us to seek out people with similar viewpoints within a larger network.  I see threads for women of faith, atheists, beaders, cat lovers, etc., etc. on this board.  Politics is just another way we define ourselves, and if we don't want to argue and defend our preferences to hostile voices, so what?  That doesn't mean our choices aren't thoughtful. 

I heard the reason Obama's campaign is willing to help pay Clinton's debt, besides impressing her supporters, is that, as long as she's in debt, she can't campaign for him and the Democratic party in general.  So it's in his best interests to make her solvent.  It may not be fair, in the larger sense, but it seems to be one of those realities of politics, like linking arms and smiling when you're thinking, "He can kiss my ass!" (to quote a certain ex-President).  Politics is its own weird animal, that's for sure.

I've no doubt that many a good leader has opted out of national politics because of the intense, skewed scrutiny.  You really have to want it bad to endure that ugly spotlight!

Amy G.

Amy G.

NoH8

 Thanks Maddy and LAP for explaining my thinking better than I did. I like having others to talk with who want Obama to win.

Beth, of course I see it clear as day, I don't like it, but I see it the reason for it.

LaPhoenix, do you mean that she's legally unable to campaign for obama and the democratic party or that she has personally wants to pay off her debts first. I could understand her wanting to pay off her debts before asking others to give Obama money, to me votes and money are separate.

I think it's soooooo cool that Obama is going to accept the nomination at the Bronco's stadium so that more everyday people can go. Anyone from denver who wants a house guest for the convention let me know LOL. The security is going to be insane. I bet people will be lining up for days beforehand. i went to an outside event with about 10-15 thousand people and we all had to be hand screened, our bags checked and go through metal detectors. There were also sharp shooters, plain clothed guys ertc and it was just at a train station not a whole stadium. I'm sure they'll be a no fly zone etc.

Anonymous

Well like I have said many times before - Im not really into politics, but love reading what all of you have to say.  My first pick was Hillary, I would be delighted if the ticket were Obama and Hilary as VP.  I dont want McCain.  Just dont care for him.

I mainly come here just to check up on Amy.  Hoping you are doing OK Amy and have you been able to move back home yet?

Nicki

LAphoenix

My understanding is that Obama wants/needs the Clinton organization to help on the campaign and they can't do that if they're in debt.  I don't know if there are legal restrictions; don't think so.  I think it's a case of you-scratch-my-back-I'll-scratch-yours.  I agree that Hillary has risen to the occasion with grace.  Her concession speech was terrific.  Her Senate voting record is almost identical to Obama's.  I think they differed on only a few votes.  Both of them are significantly different from McCain and that's what we need to focus on. 

Just heard through the wires that Webb has taken his name out of consideration for VP, that he has declined to take the next step in the vetting process.  Don't know how definitive that is.

Good luck on getting to Denver, Amy!  Wish I could join you.

Amy G.

Beesie

Amy, in my earlier post, I honestly didn't mean to imply that the specific point was one that you personally believed; I addressed my post to you simply because I was responding to a point that you made in your post.  So my apologies if that was misinterpreted.

Having said that, not to parse words, but.... since you say "i never said it would be clinton's fault--I said she will be blamed by the democratic party operatives.", can you explain how to properly interpret your earlier statement saying that "If there is an appearance that she hasn't been able to persuade her voters on issues of personality vs. policy, all of the pundits say she will be blamed for his loss and I agree with that."?   Please, that's a rhetorical question.  No need to reply (and I'd prefer no reply so that we can stop this back and forth).

NoH8

Beesie, I agree that Hillary will be blamed by some of the democratic operatives, particularly all the  elected superdelegates that came out for him, not that I agree she should be blamed. The only way I think she should be blamed would be if she came out to endorse McCain or something crazy like that that will never happen. I would think she would have some blame if she spoke about Obama the way she did in the campaign, which she won't do, and said things like vote for him since he stole the election from me and I'm not you candidate. That isn't going to happen, I'm just using that as ridiculous examples where I would think she had some of the blame. I appreciate you saying you didn't mean I specifically thought those things, I was worried that you did and honestly didn't see how from what I wrote you could think those things and responded defensively.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So Jim Webb is out for Veep. I think that his negatives might have outweighed his positives because of his stance on women in the military and that he's better at being first in command. I heard that he bowed out when told he was on the short list and XYZ was needed to continue the vetting process-- not that that implies he has anything to hide, just that he didn't want to go thru the process. The pundits also remarked that chosing a senator from the usually red state Virginia might not mean that a democrat would be reelected to that place, even if the gov replaced Webb with a dem temporarily. I don't know tons about Webb to have an opinion about him.

I'm really looking forward to the convention, especially the acceptance speech on the anniversary of MLK's I have a dream speech.

The Obama family was interviewed on the TODAY show. His daughters are adorable. The older one is the spitting image of him. She talked about giving her father advice about meeting with kids on the campaign trail. "You don't shake kids' hands like you do adults." she wisely said, "you wave or give them a high 5." The younger one made sure to let everyone know that her father likes mint gum flavor, not bubble gum flavor. It'll be fun to have kids in the White House.

sccruiser

Speaking of the family interview, I thought it was quite adorable when the 10 year old commented on her dad coming home and leaving his "very heavy" book bag where they could trip over it--and obviously the children weren't allowed to do that, so why could he. That was very astute. A very sharp, intelligent young girl. I too, think it will be fun to have kids in the White House, rather than the "pets," as in the past!

They are young enough that there probably won't be a wedding in the White House--too bad, I bet the oldest girl will be a beautiful bride someday.

I just hope that Hillary will convince some of her supporters to support Obama. After all, the politicians all seem to be the same when it comes to moving right or left. Look at how McCain has moved from some of his positions! And it is obvious McCain wants the poor to middle class to pay for the deficit that Bush has created--as we can see from how he plans to deal with tax changes.

 What really has me "p%$##ed off right now is how Cheney (and Bush--he is the commander in chief after all; and the top person is responsible for whatever his underlings do or don't do, or lie about) had the audacity to lie about the impact of global warming, and even went so far as to ask the report writer to remove any negatives related to global warming--the rats are leaving the sinking ship--and McCain will have to deal with the outcome--Obama still has him beat in the polls.

I guess I'm supposed to have been "given the news first" about Obama and the stadium speech at the convention. Well, I think it's great, but I don't like crowds so I don't plan to go.

On the Hillary thread, there's some discontent because she is asking her supporters to help her pay off her debt. I don't understand why that should bother people. If someone supports her when she's winning, shouldn't they support her when she isn't? A campaign's a campaign, there's no guarantee the candidate will win. I don't dare put this on the other thread, or they might chop off my head! LOL 

LAphoenix

Yes, the girls are wonderful.  The older one is so poised and serious, like her mom.  Isn't it funny, though, how many of our recent presidents had girls (notice I'm already putting him in the White House) and not boys--John John being the exception.  (I think it's also interesting how many of them are left-handed . . . speaking as a lefty myself.)  I hope Americans identify with them as an ordinary middle-class family.  They aren't, of course, but they seem closer to what most Americans are than the McCains.   

The two big issues I hope Obama focuses most on are the environment/energy and health care.  I think he's got a reasonable shot at making major changes in health care.  I like his plan, although paying for it will take time.  Man, if I could enroll in the Congressional health plan, I would in a heart beat.  They get niiiice benefits. 

I hope Obama gives Gore some kind of environmental czar position.  I really believe green technology is going to be America's financial salvation.  I've been impressed at how fast the whole green movement has infiltrated mainstream media.  It doesn't seem that long ago that environmentalists were being ridiculed as tree-hugging granola eaters.  My teenager talks about the environment all the time.  So maybe there's hope, at least in this country.  (China is another story . . .)