Positive Obama thread

sccruiser

LAphoenix & Amy, you have both made some really valid points. I don't like Carly, so I guess it would be great if McCain picked her--I just don't get how that would help him get votes. After all, he is older--and if he were to pass away in office, heaven forbid, what presidential qualities and government experience does Carly bring to the table? She seems to lack any experience except business type, and she didn't do too well for HP! So, that might mean more votes for Obama. Yeah! And Lieberman does seem perfect, another stuffed shirt.

Jon Stewart is a hoot! That's what McCain needs more of--a little down to earth humor, instead of the "don't you worry, I am the elder, and I know what's best for this country" attitude. I just get this vision of clenched jaw and a "so?" that might follow. LOL

I think Obama's playing his VP cards close to the vest. I would love to see a strong woman as his VP. With an excellent cabinet of strong forward thinkers, maybe we would see some real change in this country.

On a happier note, my sil's and her partner's wedding was beautiful. The minister was the fellow who introduced them to each other 13 years ago. The ceremony was so personal and beautifully put together. Their vows to each other were personally written, and some of the "traditional" ceremony stuff was changed slightly. They also had the minister read the passage on Marriage from Kahihl Gibran's book. We had that read at my dh's and my wedding 38 years ago. I never get tired of hearing it! A friend sang two songs he had written not specifically for this ceremony,but over the years he has written dozens of songs. He is very good at his craft. My daughter and granddaughter were able to make it to the reception. The 15 month old gd spent almost the entire time "running laps." She went round and round the tables and through the courtyard, and back repeating it over and over. She stopped to touch the plants and flowers in the courtyard, and her only other stop was in front of our friend who sang some more. She stared at him, entranced with the music and his voice, and on the second song broke into a bouncy dance we like to call "shaking her booty." And she is so cute!

A wonderful time was had by all. There was even a presentation on Proposition 8 in California, that will be on the November ballot. All of the attendees have agreed to pass along the message to family, friends, and work colleagues to vote NO on it. Jerry Brown, Attorney General, changed the name of the Proposition so that there is some question as to whether it will change the constitution in California. With the name change, if it sticks, will keep it out of the Constitution. Evidently, this Prop was authored and brought to registered voters to sign for ballot by a small group of very conservative evangelical people from AZ. I think that Props on any state ballot, should be written and pushed onto the ballot by those living in the state. We don't need outsiders to try to push something so discriminatory onto state election ballots. I for one, will volunteer to help defeat this one. It looks like it doesn't have strong support, so I am hopeful it will go down in defeat. I hope other gay couple's will marry, and send a message to those who are anti-gay that there is nothing to be afraid of!

All in all, it was a loving, wonderful, special event and I was honored to be asked to participate in the ceremony by giving away one of the brides! Thanks for asking about it! 

NoH8

LA, the only volunteering I'm doing these days is volunteering to unpack boxes in my loft because I',m still not moved back in all the way. I've only had help on a few days. My downstairs is done, but my loft still has a lot of work.  I only have a few boxes left. They moved the campaign office  further away from where I live, which is going to be challenging w/o a car. They said I could get a ride, but with the fibro and fatigue it's hard to rely on others. Once I get settled here, hopefully by the end of the weekend, I should be able to figure that out.

LA I guess to hear Pat talk about the mentality of women hits me in a different way than to hear women say the same thing. Pat is a much better political correspondent than I would have ever imagined. That said, I think he is covertly sexist and racist in some of his antiquated thinking. I do think he tries to understand the sexism more so than the racism and I give him credit for that. I am less angry hearing Pat make a comment about Hillary or no woman than I am to hear other women say the same thing. I think I'm incensed when females say this because many of these are women who see themselves as feminists and progressive, yet to me this is marginalizing Hillary as a woman and not the candidate, male or female, who is the best fit for Obama as Veep. Rachel asked why (according to Pat and others who believe Hillary or no woman) Hillary's success has to be at the expense of the success of other women and why other women's success has to be at the expense of Hillary, according to that theory.

McCain could use a dose of Stewart humor. McCain's humor can sound mean spirited and angry. Speaking of humor or I should say attempt at humor, did you hear him  joking about Cindy and that biker babe beauty contest? I doubt he knew that some of the contestants appear topless and in short short short shorts bumping and grinding? LOL.

Did you guys see the Paris Hilton spoof ad calling McCain the wrinkly white haired guy? I'm surely no Paris fan, but give her props for the ad, even though it was probably written and produced by someone else. I realized what a slap in the face the McCain ad was to one of McCain's donors, kathy Hilton. to use her money to diss her daughter.

The wedding sounds great. I do not believe gay marriage is a state issue, but a federal one, the same as when blacks and whites were (finally) allowed to marry in some states before the government stepped in to make discrimination illegal. I see this as the same thing and hopefully as more states allow marriage that will happen.

sccruiser

I really chuckled when I saw the Paris Hilton response ad to McCain's. Score one (or maybe a lot) for the democratic side!! McCain is soon going to stick his other foot into his mouth. And I've never seen a candidate and wife always so close together. Even when he is answering questions, she is glued to his side. What's that about?

Obama is so much more than a celebrity. Talk about "marginalizing" a person. It happens to him over and over again. And it continues to happen to people of color--I'm so tired of hearing "I'm not a racist," ad nauseum. Me thinks thou dost protest too much! Obama seems to be seen as too presidential or not presidential enough. No matter what the conversation is about, many people just want to turn a positive into a negative. To say race is not an issue in this country, is to marginalize many people of color in this "great" nation.

It seems that states will have to come on board one by one and make gay marriage possible in all the states, and then perhaps there will be a change in the federal government--like fixing the constitution--like they have done with other amendments to give rights to all citizens in this country. I just ask people I meet how they would feel if this was their child, sister, brother, mom, etc? Would they want their relatives and close friends to have the same rights they do? I'm going to do my part to make sure Prop 8 fails in CA!!

I am more aware than ever of the amount of plastic we use and throw away in this country. All that plastic--bottles, sandwich bags, meat containers, deli containers, etc--get thrown into the land fill and it takes decades for it to disintegrate!! AND it's made from OIL!! Our dependency on oil isn't just a car or truck issue--it's what we pick up off the shelves in our grocery store and bring home to consume what's inside of it, and then just throw it out. So much ends up in the land fill, and our ocean. We use the oceans around us like they are our refuse system--what we can't see isn't there--really--NOT true. It harms sea life in many ways. How about we stop using plastic? How about we recycle, and I do mean really, really recycle all that plastic so less goes into the landfill--and we can then reduce our dependence on oil even more. We inhabitants of this nation are killing the planet with our carelessness. I know I speak to the choir here, but I just get so tired of the narrow opinions often expressed on some of the other threads. So, sorry about this rant--you know it isn't about most of you here! ACKKKKKKKKKKKK!

I'm off to make a plum kuchen and a peach galette for my dh to take to work tomorrow. That way I won't eat it all--which is what I'd really like to do.

Oh, and my last comment for the day--I was in the pool yesterday @ my local community college (a water aerobic class for disabled people), and we were all talking about the increased incidence in brain cancer (at least it seems to be increasing), and I made the comment about all the toxins in our environment. Well, this one very, very thin woman blurted out, "Well, I don't believe our environment is toxic. The problem is obesity. All these people with cancer should lose the weight. I really believe that's the whole issue."

I couldn't believe I was hearing it again--that overweight people are responsible for their cancer. Hello--thin people get cancer also. I just ignored her the rest of the day. 

LAphoenix

Grace: Your s-i-l's wedding sounds lovely and happy.  Toddlers can be so funny, especially in those months right after they've starting walking . . . and running.     

It does seem as though gay marriage is going to be accomplisted one state at a time.  I heard that the anti-gay marriage proposition in CA is being outfunded by the pro-gay marriage folks by quite a large margin.  I guess this year, with the economy in the toilet, people just don't have the energy, money or will to get worked up about issues that don't directly affect their daily lives.  This is going to be problematic for the conservatives, as they've always counted on the wedge social issues to get their voters out.  And I also heard that Democratic voter registration is up, while Republicans have lost about 1 million voters.  Just not a good time to be a Republican candidate, no matter which office you're running for. 

Another thing about the whole gay marriage issue . . . A lot of retailers in CA are thrilled about the recent ruling because more weddings mean more business.  Gay couples tend to have more disposable income than straight couples, and a lot of them are dying to spend it on a nice wedding.  So all those businesses connected to weddings--florists, caterers, formal dress shops, etc.--are benefiting.  So, maybe once other states figure out how good gay marriage will be for local businesses, they'll be more open to the idea.  You know, the bottom line talks in America!

Amy: Except for his extreme views on immigration, I find Buchanan one of the less objectionable conservatives on TV.  He was against the war from the get-go, for one thing.  He's very close to his sister, I think, which may also account for his relatively "enlightened" views about women.  At least he doesn't come across as a total blowhard, the way so many conservatives on TV do.  Not that I wish him ill health or anything, but I'm not sorry to see the back of Novak.  Talk about tools (in every figurative sense of the word).

Grace: Just what we want to hear--we caused our cancer!  A heavy friend of mine had a total stranger say the same thing to her in the post office.  Obesity is a big problem, for sure, as are our sedentary ways, but it obviously doesn't account for all the increases in cancer.  And even when it is a factor, who's to blame?  We live in a society where fattening food is everywhere, and it's usually a lot cheaper and more accessible than the healthy stuff.  I think there's a whole social psychology associated with blaming the patient for his/her illness.  People want to believe that cancer is caused by behavior because, by extension, they want to believe they can prevent cancer by behavior.  Environmental causes are mostly out of our control, so we don't want to hear about them. 

Amy G.

     

NoH8

Everytime I attempt to say something nice and conscilliatroy about Hillary she says or does something to cause me to retract my words. I really want to like and respect her, but the tape that just came out that seems to contradict what she said about not putting her name in the ballot. The parade she hasn't tried to stop is also troubling, especially when the group's name insinuates that Hillary was wronged, rather than she lost in a close but fair race. That's not my idea of party unity.

Grace, how's about, "I'm not racist, I have a black friend." I wish there was an icon for rolling eyes. They're usually the same people who know a lesbian and want to fix me up since apparently all lesbians are compatable. I think (or maybe optimistically hope)  that in another generation this might be less of the case as those who lived through and advocated for segregation die out. it can't happen fast enough for me.

Thanks for all your support with the gay marriage, Grace. Heterosexuals are the ones who are going to get this done since there aren't enough of us to do it ourselves.

Maybe the thin lady was obese in her previous life  or if life is fair, will be obese in her next life.

LA, I do think Buchanan is more tolerable than most of the other repubican pundits, but I always found Bay to be more objectional than Pat although I haven't heard her views recently. Is or has Pat ever been married? you're right that he's relatively enlightened, unfortunately he thinks he's superiorly enlightened LOL.

LAphoenix

I hope the media folks are making more of this Clinton thing than there really is.  Knowing what political animals both of them are, I can't imagine that they would actually go through with a counter-convention or a "cathartic" roll call of any sort.  Hillary's gonna have to return to caucus with her fellow Democrats in the Senate, and if she does anything to divide the Party in Denver, she'll be persona non grata come September.  If she wants to run for prez again, she can't afford to be seen as anything but a team player now.  And she still has all that debt to pay off.  Hearing him talk, I think Bill's continuing objection has mostly to do with the racist charge.  That seems to have really stuck in his craw.  Hopefully getting to speak on Wednesday night at the convention will placate him. 

Yeah, Bay is more reactionary than Pat.  She looks a lot like him, doesn't she?  Like him in drag.  He's been married for a long time, I believe. 

The Cindy beauty contest thing was classic!  I saw clips from last year's contest, and, my friends, it was about as sleazy and low-class as they get.  Hey, but them vroom-vroom cycle dudes are his kind of manly man people! 

So is everyone ready for lots and lots of political ads during the Olympic coverage?  It's hard to believe they're starting tomorrow.  They'll be a nice distraction before the convention. 

NoH8

I think the PUMAs (party unity my ass) who are planning that parade are probably just the fringe, unfortunately, they have proved to be able to get attention like the did at the hearings in the end of May that decided how FLA and MI's delegates would be seated. There will be "news" organizations like Faux that make the dissention seem greater than it is.

i agree with you about what Hillary needs to do and if she pulls anything that can be seen as narcissistically dividing the party, it's going to sink her.

What do you guys think of Bill being offered to speak the same day the VP will make his or her speech?  I think it;s very risky, considering the nominee is likely not going to be Hillary. Bill is a loose cannon and I'd hope he can pull it together for the speech when he appears to be ambivalent at best about obama. I can see him making the speech about Hillary and how she was in his mind cheated out of the nomination. Barack has been exceedingly gracious towards Bill, in my opinion.

NoH8

I wonder if things will calm down during the Olympics and Obama's vacation. I'm sure the republican attacks will continue and McCain will continiue to lie about Obama's policies, but a hiatus from the negativity will be nice.

LAphoenix

A hiatus would be nice, but have you seen the Obama and McCain Olympic ads?  They're all about Obama!  They say that negative ads sway people more, but when it comes down to it, don't Americans love celebrity?  That's how Schwarzenegger became governor of California.  So maybe their tactic of pushing Obama's image over McCain's, literally, may end up backfiring on them.  But I'm glad Obama's ads are positive and about what he stands for--as much as a 30-second ad can be about policy.  Obviously both camps have decided whirling wind power generators make good visuals.  Obama's ads are better produced, though.  There's something a little rinky-dink about McCain's. 

I'm reading Audacity of Hope.  I loved Obama's description of meeting Bush, Jr. for the first time in the White House.  I think he summarized the man perfectly.  Very personable and generous in the one-on-one context, but a robot-like demagogue when discussing policy goals.  Obama really gets the nuances and contradictions of people and refuses to paint them with a broad brush.  Not sure if that's an attribute in the political world.              

Did you see the Nightline interview with Michelle?  She came across well, I thought, although it must be difficult for someone as smart and capable as she is to walk the line between the non-threatening political "wife and mother" image and I'm-a-woman-of-the-21st-century-and-have-opinions-of-my-own image. 

     

sccruiser

Yes, and our first celebrity as a political election winner that I can recall--was Ronald Reagan. He really couldn't act too well, and was an even worse governor! But evidently the voters were enthralled with the "celebrity" and elected him. What a disaster he was in CA. It has taken us years to recover. I really don't get the Obama celebrity thing. I think it's something the media pundits are pushing. People had the same reaction to Kennedy--who was young, Catholic & good looking (with a beautiful wife) and I believe people voted for him because he was a new face in politics and (IMO) was an excellent president. I was so saddened when he was killed. What a loss for this country!

I missed Michelle's interview on Nightline. Hopefully, there will be parts of it shown again.

A friend gave me this joke about government--I just had to pass it on. Hope it gives you a chuckle for today!

NEW HEAVIEST ELEMENT DISCOVERED

A major research institution has recently announced the discovery of the heaviest element known to science. Its existence was proved during the hurricane, gasoline, war and other issues of the last year or two.

The new element as been named **Governmentium**

Governmentium (Gv) has one neutron, 25 assistant neutrons, 88 deputy neutrons, and 198 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312.

These 312 particles are held together by forces called mo-rons, that are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called pe-ons.

Since (Gv)  has no electrons, it is inert. However it can be detected, because it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. A minute amount of (Gv) can cause a reaction that would normally take less than a second, to take over four days to complete.

(Gv)  has a normal half-life of four years. It does not decay, however, but instead undergoes a reorganization in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places. In fact, (Gv)’s mass will actually increase overtime, as each reorganization will cause more mo-rons to become neutrons, forming iso-dopes.

When catalyzed with money, (Gv) becomes Adminstratium (Ad)—an element that radiates just as much energy as (Gv) because, though it has only half as many pe-ons, it has twice as many mo-rons.
 

NoH8

I think the celebrity ads from McCain show his bitterness in Obama being more popular and universally liked and respected than McCain. What's wrong with being well liked. I think a president who is well liked and respected in the world will have much more influence than one who's viewed as a laughing stock or war monger.

Obama has the right idea about diplomacy. McCain seems to want to talk about is war and being a bully., not fitting into the world order and engaging countries. Bush looked like a joke when he told Europe to work on diplomacy-- who is he to boss other countries. We all have to work really hard to get Obama elected. Mending 8 years of Bush fences will be hard enough without 4 more...

LAphoenix

Grace, that's a gem!  Thanks for sharing.

I think the McCain campaign is taking a page out of the Rove playbook, trying to turn the opponent's strength into a weakness.  If Obama is well-liked and respected, then let's make being well-liked and respected into a negative instead of an asset.  Of course, the real difference between Obama and people like Schwarzenegger and the old Reagan is that he's a political celebrity not a celebrity politician.  Funny that it's mostly conservative celebrities who end up using their fame to make it in politics, yet it's the Democrats who are criticized for having celebrity supporters.       

Yes, Bush scolding Russia for going into Georgia is a total joke!  And you know that Bush is clueless about the world's skepticism. 

And what about Cokie Roberts' comment that Hawaii is too "exotic" and "foreign" a place for Obama's vacation?  "I know his grandmother lives there and it's a state, but he should vacation in someplace like Myrtle Beach."  OK, I don't want to get too paranoid, but what was she really saying there?  Whatever the underlying message, I'm sure it went over real big in Hawaii!     

NoH8

Cokie has always come across to me as a conservative, even though she tries to walk a fine line and appear  neutral. How is Obama supposed to see his 91 yo grandmother if he doesn't go visit her? I doubt she's up to traveling to the contigent states.  I'm surprised Cokie didn't suggest visiting Coney Island, LOL, that's even more common than Myrtle Beach.

Why doesn't the media ever comment about John McCain going to one of his 7 houses, talk about exotic. There are tons of people who's votes McCain would like to get that can't even buy 1 house, or if they did, they're in danger of losing it.

sccruiser

I think McCain's campaign is quickly sliding into an abyss. He is sooooo out of touch with voters. He talks like he is the "father" who knows best. At least Obama speaks with intelligence and uses multisyllabic words that require some education to understand! I'm so tired of the "dumbing down" coming from the Republicans, and I believe Rove is the implementer of that little stupid trick. After all, they used it with bushy, and if they hadn't they wouldn't have gotten all those votes the second time around! I'm sure they were worried about bush understanding half of what he was saying that was written by someone else. I think the wh has dumbed down for 8 years, and it's time to throw the dummies out of the wh!

Obama is a breath of fresh air. Of course he should go to Hawaii for a vacation and to visit his grandmother. I think even the stories he tells about his childhood and his relating the comments she supposedly made about race show a real human side, and the side of a man who knows all about race, and whom the American public, especially the conservative side, can learn much from. With all the political name accusations on the JE thread, it is amazing how much some people protest whether or not they are racist! The names that Obama has been called, and the nasty lies spread about him on the "respectful" republican thread are just that--and hurt no one but themselves. Just makes one realize the small-mindedness of some people. They hardly discuss McC at all, just denigrate Obama. The recent term of "groupies" for us is so far from the truth, it is too funny. Some of the responders on the other thread really have no clue as to who we are or what we are about. It's great to see bushy's numbers continue to fall. Too bad it's probably to late to impeach him and Cheney. I know in my travels around I am hardpressed to find even one bushy supporter. I agree with others, either they are few and far between, or too embarrassed to admit that they might have supported him previously! As far as "celebrity" status goes, bushy would love to be the celebrity everyone likes. He just can't make it because he looks so, oh what's the word I'm searching for, oh yes, like a dummy! If there were to be a contest on who is the least respectful of presidents who behave badly, or possibly future presidents who behave badly, I say the booby prize would go to the "respectful" (WHTH?) repub thread! *Meow* (catty, right?) as they say over and over!

Looking forward to McCain losing in November!! He'll have plenty of time to visit the 7 homes he owns--or is it Cindy who paid for those? 

NoH8

Maybe there's just nothing positive to say about McCain, Grace. There's certainly a lot less positive than there was 2 years ago.

What gets me is the blatant disregard for racist language and attitudes expressed, almost as if biased words are a badge of honor rather than shame. Certainly if I used a term that was racial inadvertently, I would want to know so I could change that. The idea of thumbing noses at something so serious is disturbing. Some of McCain's ads are so immature they remind me of middle school class president elections and his supporters can be just as bad. Obama has done a great job of staying above the fray. i hope he's resting on his vacation and having a good time, he's going to need it for the fall.

BTW, did you hear McCain angrily  insist that he never voted for any discriminatory legislation? i guess since he apologized for voting against MLK day that doesn't count and since gays aren't really people that doesn't count either. I hate that some republicans use religion as an excuse for discriminating against gays.

Did you sign up for the text message to be the first the hear the VP selection? you know I did.

I'm so excited for the convention. I'm going to have to take some antacids before I watch the republican one though and I'll probably have to mute or switch the station when they start talking about protecting the world from gays.

LAphoenix

You'll be glad to hear that a group in LA just raised another $2 million to defeat the anti-gay marriage prop in CA.  I think that one is doomed, for this voting cycle anyway.

I read a somewhat disturbing article about the "Wilder factor" and how some older Dems can mislead pollsters when it comes to voting for African Americans because they don't want to admit that race is a factor in their decision.  They say they're going to vote for the black candidate (like Wilder in VA), but when they get into the voting booth they pull the lever for the white guy, or for no one.  And these aren't people who are overtly racist but people who claim not to be prejudiced.  They want NOT to be racist but just can't help themselves.  The article concluded by saying that the Obama campaign understands that they just can't be ahead by a little, but need to have a comfortable lead in order to compensate for the Wilder factor.

I actually think Bush is smarter than McCain!  McCain was what, 843 out of 846 in his graduating class at Annapolis?  I've always thought that Bush's problem is that he's intellectually lazy.  He never had to work hard because of his family, so he got used to cruising and never developed his learning skills.  What a contrast Obama is.  Just like Clinton, he had to bust his butt to make it, and he didn't just get by, he excelled.  I think his determination, focus and smarts will serve him well as president.  It's definitely time to celebrate intelligence instead of denigrating it or poo-pooing it as unnecessary for good leadership.  It IS necessary!   If you don't have the ability to analyze a complex situation, to see a few steps ahead, how are you going to make the best informed decision?    

Can we exclude from the Veep list everyone who is slated to give a speech at the convention?  I've been hearing a lot of talk about Wesley Clark lately.  He actually seems like a good choice to me--experienced but not a Washington insider, impeccable credentials on foreign policy, tough debater. 

Well, I hope Obama is having a wonderful time with his grammy, Cokie!

sccruiser

Here in CA, we have Prop 8 on the ballot. Put there by a fringe AZ Christian right group--not even residents of CA! It's a way for the Christian right to get all republicans to the polls to vote--like Rove orchestrated in 2004 to get bushy re-elected for another 4 years of terror from the wh!!

It will be defeated here. This issue of gays not being able to marry has no place in any state or federal Constitution. There should never be an amendment to the Constitution to TAKE AWAY any citizens' rights just because they are "different." We need all the diversity we can get to keep this country moving toward a peaceful nation and being a positive model for the rest of the world. I can't believe that anyone could be proud of having a President in a "democratic" (actually meritocracy) nation start a war based on falsified information! Someone on another thread defined terrorists and when I read it, I immediately thought it was a definition for creating terrorism in our own country: poverty, lack of education and something else I can't remember right now. Reminds me of the uprisings in the 60s in LA and Detroit. How scary is that?

Let's face it. There is much racism and all the other isms in this country. Just because a person states they are not a racist doesn't make it so. I learned that in college. And no one can keep from showing who he/she really is--words hear tell us many things about certain people. It's a shame we can't have a serious, truthful conversation about race in this country. There are certain populations that could learn so much. And don't get me started on the "right" and their phobias and lack of any knowledge about gays. It literally makes me sick to my stomach.

If McCain becomes President, nothing will change. And we are in danger of having more of our fine, young men and women killed in a "folly of war" on "terror," whoops, I mean for oil LOL.  Hard to laugh when I see the body count each day, and the number of soldiers maimed and disabled for the rest of their lives--and most in their early twenties. I see the recruiters at the colleges near me, and they blatantly target the underserved students walking on campus (the black and Hispanic especially!

Well, enough about this stupid war that will never end if republicans get in the wh!

What do you all think about the media pouncing on the private emails released from Hillary's campaign about the infighting, and how to run Obama into the ground? Flipflopping, less than an American, etc. Disgusting. Now I see why my husband dislikes her so much--she doesn't care what it takes to "win." I hope this doesn't divide the party at the convention.

Funny thing is, if this hadn't been the way she campaigned, I don't think McC would have had any way of putting out his junior high ads. If this is all he has to use, Obama will leave him in the dust.

Oh, no, I didn't sign up for the text message--so I'm counting on you to be the first to post it on this thread!! LOL

Might watch part of the republican convention between the naps--because they will put me to sleep--particularly McC with his "father knows best, weirdly modulated" voice--such a downer--hope no one points that out to him, as he will just fade away in the debates! 

Have a great day! 

LAphoenix

Well, if one's to judge how a candidate might govern based on their campaign, I'd say we're lucky to have dodged the Hillary bullet.  What a nasty piece of work that Mark Penn is.  At least she didn't take his advice, but I think it says something about her judgment that she kept him around in any capacity.  I don't think she was well served by many of the men around her. 

Speaking of nasty pieces of work who are men . . . As if John Edwards weren't bad enough, now we get Rush Limbaugh saying that the affair was Elizabeth's fault because she talked too much?  "He had to get away from her mouth," is how he put it.  He really said that on the air!  You don't suppose that was HIS excuse for cheating, now do you?  Why do people listen to that asshole?!  Doesn't it speak volumes about conservatives that he continues to have a show?  It's just one hateful, prejudiced comment after another.   

I can't imagine listening to McCain at the convention because every time he says "my friends" I want to scream!  Please, someone, give that man a new catch phrase.  Obama has to win just so we don't have to listen to that for 4 years!     

NoH8

I agree about Mark Penn being slime. I don't know why Hillary put up with him as long as she did. I guess that's part of the reason she's not the nominee, her lousy campaign vs. obama's well run one.

I know all about Prop 8 and I'm thrilled to see people raising money to defeat it. I worry that if McCain is president he'll back one of those hateful ammendments against gay marriage, because he said the reason he didn't before was that it was unneccessary.

Did you guys hear that the "obama and clinton campaigns brokered a deal to place hillary's name into nomination." This disgusts me. I hate to see the convention become clinton central because that flies in the face of change and a new direction for the country. I understand that Obama felt like he was between a rock and a hard place, but I just don't buy into that the fringe of Hillary's followers are going to be satisfied with that.  I think if Hillary really wanted to unite the party she would have released her delegates to vote for Obama and said she didn't want her name submitted. It's like a part of her is still holding on to being the woman wronged. I know in the grand scheme of things this won;t effect votes, but in terms of public perception I think Hillary's full embracement of Obama would be better to show party unity. I only hope that the Pumas will not have their parade because if they win the battle only to lose the war in November the supreme court is in grave danger.

I wonder why more people don't vote on the supreme court possibilities. I guess maybe it';s because that doesn't seem like an immediate need when there's a war and the economy is in the toilet.

I also hate the "my friends" crap. Congress seems to do it when a member hates what another member is saying, "i disagree with my friend from RI.,"

LA and Grace, will you help me find a place to live in CA if the worst happens and McCain is elected? At least I won't be treated like as much of a 2nd class citizen there. Realistically I can't move to canada, although I wish I could have been there for the last 7.5 years.

LAphoenix

In light of all that has come out about Penn and the proposed anti-Obama strategy, it amazes me that the die-hard Clinton folks would still have the nerve to suggest they were discriminated against by the Obama campaign.  If they can't support Obama, why don't they put their energies into getting more women elected to Congress?  As you say, Amy, if they were true feminists, they would be doing everything they could to protect the Supreme Court against McCain, not threatening to vote for him because the Clinton campaign, under the bad direction of Penn, got out-maneuvered in the primaries.  Talk about cutting off your nose  . . .

Have you seen the new Obama ad?  I heard he's also got a 40-page refutation of the latest smear book.  Not sure it will have much effect but I guess it shows he's not going to roll over and take it.  And what about the latest McCain inanity?  Countries just can't go around invading other countries in the 21st century?  He said it with a straight face so I guess he was just forgetting about that little thing called the Iraq invasion.  The one that was built on lies and propaganda.  At any rate, if McCain was hoping the Georgian situation was going to give him a chance to look presidential, it hasn't exactly worked out, has it?

I hope you won't have any reason to leave PA come November, Amy.  Maybe you could do the Air America cruise with Rachel Maddow instead.             

NoH8

wait....is there's an air america cruise or is that just an expression?

I can't believe people are so gullible to believe the crap that's in this book. Rachel went over all the horrid things the author has said in the past-- this as crazy and hateful as Falwell and company has said. Don't get me started, LOL.

I signed up for the text message of the VP announcement. I rarely text and when I got a text last night I thought it might be from the campaign saying who the candidate is.

My current guess is that it will be Biden, but I think it should be richardson.

LAphoenix

It's a real cruise, in mid-November.  To Guatemala.  Rachel is going, along with Ron Reagan and some other AA hosts and politicos.  They've done a number of these cruises, so they must be successful.  Here's the website:

http://airamericacruise.com/

They do seem to be talking up Biden a lot lately.  I don't have a problem with him, except for his tendency to be loose with his words.  He's a tenacious debater, though.

When I heard the McCain comment about not invading countries in the 21st century, I didn't realize that Bush had said the exact same thing, almost word for word.  Maybe Obama should do an ad featuring the famous McCain-Bush hug and all the similar statements they've each made.  Burn into people's minds that McCain is McBush, especially when it comes to foreign policy.  McCain may not be driven by idealogical zealotry like Bush, but he certainly likes to bomb, bomb, bomb like Bush. 

And haven't the chickens come home to roost where Georgia is concerned?  Putin knows the U.S. can't do anything meaningful against Russia, given the Iraq war and the U.S.'s lack of respect and credibility around the world.  Isn't that exactly what people were fearing would happen?  

Grace, I was thinking that, out of deference to Robert Young, you should refer to McCain as Grandpa Knows Best.  I know what you mean, though, about the attitude.   

NoH8

What about Old Wrinkled guy knows least, we can't besmirch Marcus Welby MD. LOL

The cruise sounds like a dream come true, 7 glorious days savoring Obama's win with intelligent,  progressive people. The conversation will probably be orgasmic, Maybe if I win the lottery....

LAphoenix

How about this article about deployed troops donating to Obama 6 to 1 over McCain!  Pretty good for an unpatriotic elitist would-be Messiah.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-soltz/deployed-troops-donate-to_b_118987.html

OK, now I really do have to get back to work!

sccruiser

Of course I'll help you find a place to live if you come to CA. Where I live, the gay/lesbian community is thriving and strong. My sil and her partner have built a network of similar people and from that has a list of gays/lesbians who own businesses in the area. I just call them if I need anyone to work on my house, or help me with advertising/fundraising, etc. So, yeah, with their help I'm sure we could find you a nice place to live. And the weather is excellent almost all year (except when we have 100 inch rain years!).

You are so right about calling McCain what he really is--so from now on it will be--Very Old Man who Knows Little--VOMWKL for short! Blech, here also with the "my friends" bit. Sounds like something you would say if you were visiting a non-profit org meeting and giving a little welcome speech. Certainly not very presidential!

As we (hubby, dogs & I) along the cliffs overlooking the Pacific Ocean today, the discussion turned to the Republican battle to win the wh again--the conservatives are sooooo desparate that they just keep repeating the old lies about Obama that have surfaced and been handled already--they have no real ammunition--poor things--just fighting to get McCain in office--and it's a losing battle. I really feel sorry for people who think McCain would make a good president. He is so connected to Bush and his cronies that the American public is not wanting to have 4 more bushy years! That latest book really is a crock of s*%$--watched a news program where Rollins said this man has written nothing but lies and information that has already been determined to be false. People who buy his book are really wasting their money--it's not going to get McCain elected.

And it turns out McCain has been absent from the Senate when a certain bill was put to a vote 5 times out of 8! So his record in the Senate isn't so great either.

I'm rather sad that Hillary is willing to go to the convention and get a roll call. Obama is smart, I think, in giving her that concession. That should squelch the Hillary supporters. I can't believe that she would win the nomination at this late date. I'm glad Obama is holding off in announcing his VP. As I recall, many nominees wait until the convention to announce their VP. If this was a true democracy, we would be voting for a VP nomination also in the primary. I'd like to have more of a say in the VP position in this country--especially after this Bushy/Darth Vader regime (oops, is that giving DV a bad name?) where we have the two top employees in this country continually thumbing their noses at what the American public majority thinks is wrong and should never have taken place. Surely bushy isn't serious when he tells Russia to take their war toys and go home as this isn't something done in the 21st century? How embarrassing for us!! See, there's that privilege again--white man making war in the middle east, and then telling the president of another nation that he can't do that--WTH? How can he possibly feel so entitled? Who made him the "not war for you" police? It appears to be a case of "do as I say, not as I do?" The world should be telling bushy what and A**H^&% he is. Wish we could put the two of them where they need to be--in prison--a cell that they sit in 23 hrs a day!

Well, I'm off to finish up some chores, and then enjoy a nice meal out with my dear hubby--we will be celebrating our 38th wedding anniversary! Amazing how time flies when you are having so much fun together.

Huge Hugs for all my liberal friends on this board!! 

NoH8

Guess what? The Pumas aren't real democratic supporters, they're republican trouble makers.  I should have figured it out before they were debunked on tv.

McCain is following Bush's footsteps with might makes right. Anyone who think they're going to respond to public tough talk must be smoking something that isn't legal but should be. Bush is such an embarrassment and a threat to this us. I was rolling my eyes so hard when he and Condi were talking about how in the21st century we don't invade other countries....um... what about Iraq????

obama has the right idea about going through the UN, we need to have our international reputation repaired, and being a bully isn't the way to do it.

How do you guys feel about the faith forum? I'm irritated, didn't we already have one of those with the democrats? I think this is a further attempt to insinuate religion into politics and pander to the religious right, but I guess Obama has to do this because of the lies that have been spread about his religion. I always say keep your laws off my body and out of my bedroom. I don';t have a probem per se, but I've seen way too many people use their religion when convenient, and talke the talk w/o walking the walk.

LAphoenix

Grace, happy anniversary!  38 years is something to be proud of.   

I hadn't heard that about the Pumas, but I don't know how obvious it should have been that they were Republican dirty tricksters.  Some of these Clinton supporters are pretty over-the-top.  In a letter of the editor in the LA Times today, a woman from New Hampshire wrote: "Putting her name into nomination -- a traditional procedure accorded many male candidates who have preceded her -- is the least the Democratic Party can do to begin healing the intense divide that Barack Obama's campaign has created."  Excuse me?  It's Obama's campaign that has created an intense divide?  Like, how dare he run for president and beat Hillary.  Have the Clintonistas conveniently forgotten that Bill stormed onto the scene in 1992 with no Washington experience at all, as a relative unknown, beating out his more seasoned rivals?  He was younger than Obama when he first ran.  And hasn't it been proven that it was her campaign that was trying to divide by race?  Politics certainly creates convenient memory lapses.  Well, at least her part will be over soon.  I'll probably just skip the "Clinton show" at the convention.  And I used to be a fan!    

The "faith forum" sounds like a big PR stunt to me, but not one that either candidate can afford to skip.  It's unfortunate that politicians still have to go out and perform the religious soft-shoe to convince voters they're Christian enough.   Anyone can mouth the words--and they know exactly what they have to say to appease their bases.  I think their deeds, votes and proposed policy platforms should reveal everything anyone needs to know about their morals and character.  And we know how many supposed moral Christian types are liars and "sinners."  

   

       

NoH8

You know that Limbug set out to derail the democratic primaries by electing hillary because he thought the repubs could defeat her easier than Obama. Now he's calling for chaos at the democratic convention and even said that he hoped it would be like 68. I'm now questioning how many of the apparently impassioned women who write those type letters are actually democrats and how many are republican operatives.

I agree with you about the PR stunt, but I';ll watch  anyway so I can have intelligent discussions about it. I wish they had Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, and Atheist leaders also asking the questions since evangelical isnt the only POV in the country.

NoH8

Did anyone see the Faith forum, I wish I thought of this earlier, but a good drinking game would have feel to chug every time McCain said, "my friends". I hated hearing Obama say that marriage was between one man and one woman and that he supports civil unions. I wish i could look him in the eye and ask how he sees a civil union relationship as being different than a marriage. I know politically it would have been suicide to say the right thing. I wish he would have said that in this political climate he supports civil unions and won't press for marriage. The way it sounded in the faith forum was that he saw us as separate and unequal.

Aside from that, the more I hear from McCain the less I like him. I hope that obama's campaign and women's groups use his quotes about being antichoice and all the supreme court justices he dislikes to educate any women who think he's going to be more attentive to their issues than Obama.

I thought Obama's strongest point when he talked about using embryonic stem cells that would otherwise be destroyed. I wonder how many people against stem cell usage realize this is the case. I was turned off when Obama went on to add that he would never suggest creating embryos for the purposes of science which I think is ridiculous. It folks think it's ok to create embryos for freezing and never using or discarding, then it seems disingenuous not to allow them to be created to save lives.

I thought the forum was a bit unfair considering it was held in a church, yet many of the people who went were charged thousands of dollars, although some tickets were given to the congregation. Did the church or preacher make a profit from the debates? I learned that the tv stations didn't have to pay to televise the broadcast. The audience was basically filled with likely McCain voters. I don't dislike that preacher as much as I do the Falwell types. I see his as being prejudiced in an outwardly less offensive way.

I was uncomfortable with the question about whether discriminating against people in hiring/firing is going to be tolerated with faith based programs as the preacher and the audience seemed to want. That's just not right or fair. Gays will be discriminated against or they will have to keep their orientation hidden. Will atheists and muslims  be hired or fired on demand. This can't be legal when public funds are concerned.

LAphoenix

I found the forum less objectionable than I feared it would be.  I've never read Warren's book, but I've heard a lot about it.  Given that it was Orange County, I guess it was to be expected that there would be lots of McCain supporters there, although it's not as Republican as it used to be.

I too was disappointed by his response to the gay marriage question.  He has said, however, that he won't endorse gay marriage bans, like the one on the ballot in CA, and maybe that's the best we can hope for, some political hair-splitting.  I interpreted his answer about the faith-based groups and discrimination to mean that constitutionally they can't discriminate when hiring people for projects that get public funds, that the EOE standards would apply.  I guess there's nothing to stop them from using people already hired under discriminatory practices as a private religious group, though. 

What impressed me the most about Obama's answers was the fact that he took to heart Warren's request not to simply regurgitate his stump speech but to answer the specific questions.  And of course all of his answers were thoughtful--not just some bumper sticker pronouncement sure to please the base.  That made him "nuanced" in the media's eyes, which is damning with faint praise where politics is concerned. 

I happened to be reading the section in Audacity of Hope about values and thought this passage dovetailed nicely with some of yesterday's comments:

"Sometimes we need both cultural transformation and government action--a change in values and a change in policy--to promote the kind of society we want. . . . That is one of the things that makes me a Democrat, I suppose--this idea that our communal values, our sense of mutual responsibility and social solidarity, should express themselves not just in the church or the mosque or the synagogue; not just on the blocks where we live, in the places where we work, or within our own families; but also through our government." 

Looks like the pundits are convinced that Biden is going to be Obama's VP pick.  And that Romney is a lock for McSame.  They didn't even mention Clinton, Clark or Richardson, so apparently they're not on the "short list."