The Respectfully Republican Conversation

Daffodil

Shirley, get in that kitchen like a good Republican housewife!!!

Wish you lived next door....

ibcspouse

LuAnnH

I will try just one more time.  The college students coming in an using a crash house as an address was the week of same day registration, same day vote.  No cards are sent out..  Once a vote is cast, it is secret, can't be thrown out.  You cite the rules for voting and registration that were in place when you had a Republican Sec of State.  Your Democratic Sec of State whose advisor is an advisor for ACORN changed your rules.  

BinVA.. Some stories sound like they will be better than what they are... 

Shirley..yes, I lost hearing in Vietnam, but last week got some super new Hearing Aids...much better than any I have ever had...The world is loud, and as much as I hate to say it, Gov Sara's voice does seem to be able to peel wallpaper.  It will take a little while to readjust to high pitched sounds.

pinoideae

.

LuAnnH

ibcspouse, do you live in Ohio?  You seem to know so many rules but I really don't believe this fake voting is happening that you are claiming.  Here is the current information on how to register to vote in the State of Ohio:

HOW TO REGISTER TO VOTE
Printable Voter Registration Form (PDF)

• A REGISTERED VOTER MUST BE
  
• VOTER REGISTRATION LOCATIONS ARE
• AFTER YOU FILL OUT REGISTRATION FORM
• AFTER YOU REGISTER
• TO MAINTAIN YOUR REGISTRATION
• FOR INFORMATION REGARDING YOUR REGISTRATION OR VOTING PLACE
• CAN A STUDENT VOTE FROM HIS/HER SCHOOL ADDRESS?
• TO VOTE IN AN ELECTION, MUST I BE REGISTERED?
• DO I DECLARE MY POLITICS WHEN I REGISTER?
• TTY ASSISTANCE

• A REGISTERED VOTER MUST BE:
  (ORC 3503.01)
  1. A U.S. Citizen
  2. 18 years or older by Election Day
  3. A resident of the State of Ohio for at least 30 days before the election
  4. A resident of Hamilton County and the precinct where you vote

*Return to Top Index

• VOTER REGISTRATION LOCATIONS ARE
  (ORC 3503.19)
  - Board of Elections - 824 Broadway, Cincinnati Ohio
  - Bureau of Motor Vehicles licensing locations
  - Public Libraries
  - Agencies providing public assistance
  - Agencies providing services to people with disabilities
  - Public High Schools and Vocational Schools
  - Office of The County Treasurer
  - Request a form from the Board of Elections by telephone, mail, or email (registrationdepartment@hamilton-co.org)
  - City halls
  - Secretary of State
  - Ohio law does not permit you to register on the Internet

*Return to Top Index

• AFTER YOU FILL OUT REGISTRATION FORM
  (ORC 3503.19)
  *return the form to the Hamilton County Board of Elections or the Secretary of State's office in person or by mail
  *Mailed registration forms sent to the Board of Elections or the Secretary of State's office must be postmarked 30 days before an election to be valid for the election.
  *Registration forms not mailed in must be received by the Board of Elections, the Secretary of State's office, public high schools or vocational schools, public libraries, office of any Bureau of Motor Vehicles, county Treasurer's office or designated agencies 30 days before an election to be valid for that election

*Return to Top Index

• AFTER YOU REGISTER
  (ORC 3503.19)
  *You will receive a registration card from the Board of Elections. The card will give the name of your precinct and the address of your polling place. It will also list your Congressional, State House, and State Senate districts. Keep this card in a safe place for future reference. Remember to update your address with the Board of Elections if you move. Whenever you update your voter registration information you will receive a new card.

*Return to Top Index

• TO MAINTAIN YOUR REGISTRATION
  (ORC 3503.19)(ORC 3503.21)
  - vote at least once every four years
  - notify the Board of Elections in writing of any change of address/name

*Return to Top Index

• FOR INFORMATION REGARDING YOUR REGISTRATION OR VOTING PLACE
  - call the Hamilton County Board of Elections at 513-632-7000
  or use "Am I Registered?" and "Where do I Vote?"

*Return to Top Index

• CAN A STUDENT VOTE FROM HIS/HER SCHOOL ADDRESS?
  (ORC 3503.02)
  Yes, while away at school you may maintain your Hamilton County address and request an Absentee Ballot or you may register from the address you are residing while attending school and vote in that county. In Hamilton County, click here for an Absentee Ballot request form.
  
  *Return to Top Index
  

• TO VOTE IN AN ELECTION, MUST I BE REGISTERED?
  (ORC 3511.02)
  Yes, 30 days before the election.
  
  Members of the armed forces serving on active duty have two ways to register to vote:
  (1) They may maintain their registration at the precinct in which they have a voting residence in the state or (2) They may obtain an Absentee Ballot under the "Uniformed and Overseas Voting Act" which is an application for voter registration as well as an absentee ballot request. This also applies to spouses and dependents if they left Ohio to be with the service member.

*Return to Top Index

• DO I DECLARE MY POLITICS WHEN I REGISTER?
  No. Under Ohio law, the ballot you vote in a primary election determines your party affiliation.
• And here is what you do to vote by absentee ballot:

• Vote Early in Hamilton County - No more waiting in line at the polls!
  You can vote early, which is the same as voting Absentee. And Early Voting is Easy!
   

  Any registered voter in Ohio can request an Absentee Ballot. Request forms are
  available on our website OR, request a ballot in writing and mail to:
  Hamilton County Board of Elections, 824 Broadway, Cinti, OH 45202
  A written request must include:
  ***Name, Address, Date of Birth, Phone number, Date of the election, Statement that you
  are a qualified voter, & Signature;
  ***If the request is for primary election ballots, the elector's party affiliation;
  ***If the elector desires ballots to be mailed to the elector, the address to which those
  ballots shall be mailed.
  *** And one of the following -
  ----- Driver's license number
  ----- Last four digits of your social security number
  ----- A copy of a valid ID
  ----- A current utility bill, bank statement, military ID, government check, paycheck, or
  other government document that has your name and address.

  Once a request is received, a ballot is mailed to the voters home (or if indicated an
  address outside Hamilton Co.) Absentee Ballots must be returned to the BOE by 7:30 pm
  on Election Day & all information on the envelopes filled out correctly.

  For Information on voting Absentee in nursing homes, hospitals or jails, contact the
  Absentee Voting Department at 632-7040.

  For information on Military Voting or Civilian Overseas, call 632-7089. Information and
  voter registration form/absentee request form is also available at the Federal Voting
  Assistance Program - www.fvap.gov

I don't see anywhere in there that allows someone to vote the same day they register.  In fact you must be registered to vote a certain amount of days prior to an election to even be able to vote.  For your absentee ballot you are going to need something with your address to get the ballot.  Renting a flop house for a few days is not going to get you a utility bill or drivers license with your name or address.  Not sure where you are getting your info but I don't think it is correct.

LuAnnH

Man I am ticked I typed a really long post responding to all your questions Shirley and it got lost.  I hate when BCO does that.

Ok, for backup on Sarah Palin not knowing much about how the gov't works, economy and other issues.  Here is a newsweek article on her interview with Katie Couric.  Very embarassing that someone like this would even be running http://www.newsweek.com/id/161204  I don't claim to be great at politics but I might have handled that interview better.

This so called "SURGE" everyone braggs about that worked so well.  If it was so successful why are our soldiers still fighting serious battles daily?  Al queada still has quite a few strongholds in Iraq and are not rolling over and giving them up.  Our soldiers are at risk daily from these insurgents.

Afghanistan should have been settled long before we invaded another country.  Why is Bin Laden not in custody yet?  We should have had him before we jumped up and invaded another country.  Oh but wait, Little George had to do this because Daddy George didn't finish the job properly when he had the chance.  We were already there with Iraq, very close to capturing sadam.  Lost countless US soldiers lives and he quit right before he had the prize.  But thats ok, little georgie tells daddy I'll just lie to the public and get them to somehow approve a war that we shouldn't be jumping into.  What the heck is a few more killed servicemembers, thats their job right?  I really don't think Bush has been upfront and honest and our young people are paying a price for it.

Everybody loves this statement that if you wanted run against George Bush you should have done it 4 years ago.  It is very well stated in votes and records that McCain and Bush are always working right along side each other.  McCain's ideas and policies are right there in line with Bush and after 16 years of Bush's that just doesn't work!  So Obama isn't running against Bush, just another repub that follows his same line of thinking.

I give the speech writer credit for that statement though, it was pretty good!

As you said, what to do about this economy and country's sad state is a gamble.  Even all the analyst don't know what to do.  Well I will put my money on Obama and a fresh face in the game.  The old boy club (and I am not referring to age when I say old) in washington needs to end.  Time to bring in some young educated people to give us fresh new thinking.  The world has changed, everything rapidly changes, time for the politicians to change also.

I am also tired of hearing how mcCain talks about knowing more about war tha Obama, well war today is very different than war 30 years ago.  When McCain fought, the soldiers literally fought hand to hand combat.  Now we can pinpoint a target thousands of miles away and destroy it with a missile and not cause any injury to our people.  We couldn't do that in McCains time.

I think I have said enough to keep you responding to me for awhile now Shirley!    I love you too!

Beesie

LuAnn,

I couldn't agree with you more about Bush.  I agree too that eventually Saddam would have had to be dealt with, but Bush did not do it the right way.  I was living in the U.S. at the time and I was quite surprised that Canada, who is usually a U.S. ally, did not join the Iraq war.  So I investigated and ended up agreeing with the Canadian position.  Bush was too quick to jump and yes, I do think that he had his own personal agenda.  And as we all know now, he lied to the American people about the nature of the threat.

I was never a Republican fan, so Bush's actions didn't turn me off the Republicans.  They turned me off people who are unqualified to be president and who come into office for their own personal gain (Bush wanting to prove to his daddy that he wasn't the black sheep son).   And that defines Obama.  I see the same Bush arrogance in Obama.  I see the same propensity to lie.  I see the same pettiness. I see the same personal ambition (rather than a desire to serve).  I see the same lack of experience (well actually, Obama is much less experienced).  As I see it, Obama is the Democrats' revenge for Bush.  He is the Democratic version of Bush.  Before his election in 2000, I strongly disliked Bush and I feared what he might do to the country and the world.  And now I feel exactly the same way about Obama.  So for me, the lessons from the Bush era don't relate to the choice of Democrat vs. Republican.  For me, the lesson is to be careful about the background and character of the individual who is chosen to be president.  I may not agree with McCain on all the policy issues, but I trust him.  I think he is of strong moral character. On the other hand, if Obama is chosen, I don't think the lesson has been learned and I fear that history may repeat itself, with a whole new set of fiascos ahead.  

FYI, here's info about same-day voting in Ohio:  http://www.cnsnews.com/Public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=36892I

LuAnnH

I had to chuckle at your commet on Obama being the revenge for Bush.  That was good.  I tried your link but it did not work.  I pulled all my information off the Board of Elections in Ohio.  I did ask a friend who is a poll worker and you cannot vote the same day as registration in the state of ohio.  So all this supposed fraud is something someone misunderstood something and wrote it and now the world believes it.

ibcspouse

LuAnnH

I hate to do cut and post, but I don't know how to convince you that your State had a week to register and vote on same day.  This is AP story.   

 But the Republican-dominated Ohio Supreme Court decided on Monday that Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner was following the law when she ruled there is a six-day window in which voters can register and vote at the same time.

The decision - also backed by two separate federal judges - means election officials are preparing for the rush of early voting Tuesday, the first day absentee ballots are accepted in advance of the Nov. 4 presidential election.

"This ruling is a victory for all Ohio voters," Brunner said in a statement.

In Cuyahoga County, the state's largest and home to Cleveland, election workers underwent two days of training last week to properly process voters who are registering and voting on the same day.

In Columbus, voters wanting to cast ballots as soon as possible on Tuesday morning had set up tents Monday night to wait in line outside the Franklin County Board of Elections. The singer John Legend encouraged voters to endorse Barack Obama at a rally on the campus of Ohio State University in Columbus.

The outcome of the court battles is likely to benefit Democrats in a state that narrowly awarded President Bush re-election in 2004.

Obama's campaign has organized car pools beginning Tuesday from college campuses to early voting sites. The Northeast Ohio Coalition for the Homeless is ferrying voters from homeless shelters to polling sites in the Cleveland area. Other organizations that seek to increase poor and minority participation in elections are transporting voters from low-income neighborhoods.

The targeted voters have all traditionally had a harder time getting registered, and then getting to polling places on Election Day. Thanks to Monday's court decisions, these Democratic-leaning voters can do it all at once.

Rosemary44

If McCain was running the war, we'd probably be out of there by now.  You can't confuse, Bush with McCain.  Well you can.  But I can't.  I can't imagine anyone thinking Obama could run 2 wars.  Not in a million years could I believe that one.  He would have to make a decision to run 2 wars which he wasn't capable of doing for all the years in the State senate, except for voting against ending infanticide.  130 "present votes". Not yes, not No, just ummm present. 

 He wasn't in the U.S. Senate more than 143 days before he left on his quest for the Presidency.  This is an unknown man.  All we know about him is this______________________.

Plus it took him 4 days to say the right thing when Russia invaded Georgia.  Guiliani said it correctly, Barack if you want to know how to handle something in a time of crisis, just call John.

LuAnnH

And how much do we know about sarah palin?  You all say I am not willing to open my eyes but it goes both ways.  I was just watching CNN with larry king live and they explained how ACORN works.  The workers got paid by how many registrations they turn in.  Ultimately that is not illegal to register multiple times.  Ultimately the last registration is the only valid one.  Even if they have allowed people to register and vote the same day, it does not change the rules on proof to being a resident.  Also on Larry King they said in New Mexico they reviewed 100 ACORN registrations and all were legitimate.  Also in all the gov't investigations of ACORN only 24 inappropriate registrations were found that were put on the books.  Just because the paperwork is filled out doesn't mean it gets logged in the system.  Everything must be verified after the workers bring in the application.

Why can't the democrats win because they ran a better campaign and the country is saying it wants change?  They are saying today now that Colin Powell is going to endorse Obama, isn't he part of Bush's staff?  Even they want change, says alot to me.

You all die hard tried and true republicans are not really listening to me.  Why not address Palins interview with Katie Couric?  What did she have to say besides keywords she was taught?  Why is ok for her to stir up hatred but the democrats are the bad guys?  You can't have it both ways.

Someone mentioned the Kennedy's and I forgot to address that.  They are nothing more than a corrupt family with alot of money to cover things up.  I can't remember which one more than likely killed that girl in Chappequeda (come on, can't remember the name or how to spell it).  I believe Kennedy killed her and got away with it.  Money can buy you things.  I don't have any and I don't get out of anything.

My sincere hope is this election is a landslide win and we get out of this out of the outrageous deficit we are in.  I believe when the republicans took office from the democrats we had a cash surplus.  What happened there?  Is it the democrats doing to get the surplus and to get the deficit? 

As far as Bill Ayers, I am so tired of hearing this guys name, talk about what you are going to do to improve the american peoples way of life?  What are you going to do for health care?  How are you going to improve spending in medical research so I can live long enough to vote in another presidential election?  When are we going to get out of countries we don't belong in?  I want to hear answers to these questions, I don't want to keep hearing the same old name calling that has been happening for the past few weeks.  Tell me something that will be done and not play baby games by picking on the other person to try and make them cry.

LuAnnH

Another thing to consider is no president runs the country all by his lonesome self.  They all have advisors that are paid to be knowledgeable in those areas.  So if someone isn't an expert at everythihng he can have an advisor to help give him the proper information to make adequate decisions.  Don't all presidents have cabinets with advisors that help them with gather evidence and information to make decisions?

LuAnnH

Here's another good article of a strong republican wanting change and not agreeing with where out country has been heading.

In Philly, Conservative Talk Radio Host Backs Obama

October 17, 2008 3:44 PM

On his talk show on WPHT today, conservative Philadelphian Michael Smerconish endorsed Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill.

Smerconish did so by reading a couple paragraphs from his pending op-ed in the Philadelphia Inquirer.

"I've decided," he said. "My conclusion comes after reading the candidates' memoirs and campaign platforms, attending both party conventions, interviewing both men multiple times, and watching all primary and general election debates.
 
"John McCain is an honorable man who has served his country well. But he will not get my vote. For the first time since registering as a Republican 28 years ago, I'm voting for a Democrat for president.

"I may have been an appointee in the George H.W. Bush administration, and master of ceremonies for George W. Bush in 2004, but last Saturday I stood amidst the crowd at an Obama event in North Philadelphia," says the Republican.

Smerconish has given us some more from his op-ed: 

"Terrorism. The candidates disagree as to where to prosecute the war against Islamic fundamentalists. Barack Obama is correct in saying the front line in that battle is not Iraq, it's the Afghan-Pakistan border. Osama bin Laden crossed that border from Tora Bora in December 2001, and we stopped pursuit. The Bush administration outsourced the hunt for bin Laden and, instead, invaded Iraq.
 
"No one in Iraq caused the death of 3,000 Americans on 9/11. Our invasion was based on a false predicate, so we have no business being there, regardless of whether the surge is working. Our focus must be the tribal-ruled FATA region in Pakistan. Only recently has our military engaged al-Qaeda there in operations that mirror those Obama was ridiculed for recommending in August 2007.
 
"Last spring, Obama told me, 'It's not that I was opposed to war [in Iraq]. It's that I felt we had a war that we had not finished.'  Even Sen. Joe Lieberman conceded to me just last Friday that 'the headquarters of our opposition, our enemies today,' is the FATA."

Smerconish is taking a lot of heat from his fellow GOPers, as one might imagine.

- jpt

ibcspouse

LuAnnH

I do agree with somethings you are saying, there needs to be more money spent of medical research.  It irritates the hell out of me that hundreds of millions are spent of fighting malaria in Africa or more money per person is spent on aids research than on Breast Cancer that kills 40,000 women a year.  We know what causes and how to prevent Aids and malaria, we don't have a clue how to prevent someone from getting breast cancer.  I hate the fact that it was politically correct to give victims of 9/11 an average 2.5 million dollars each because their death was not their fault, but to die from breast cancer can mean you owe or have spent that much money.  I am somewhat old fashion, I believe women and children are to be the first in the lifeboat. Not because of a chavanistic reason, but because I believe the strength of our nation is in the heart of the mothers and the future of the children. 

So I will not argue with you anymore.  You will vote your way, and I mine.  I believe you do not have a grasp of the facts, you believe I don't.  So be it.

So lets solve problems..

Who can come up with a Health care Plan lets try.

Anonymous

Regarding the purchase of health insurance, I pay $422 for coverage for me and my daughter. That's  a smidge over $5000.  If I get a job that would cover my daughter without me having to switch, I would do that.  But for me, my HMO is the best.  You can get insurance for $5000.

Anonymous

Regarding the purchase of health insurance, I pay $422 for coverage for me and my daughter. That's  a smidge over $5000.  If I get a job that would cover my daughter without me having to switch, I would do that.  But for me, my HMO is the best.  You can get insurance for $5000.

Anonymous

LuAnnH wrote:

Why is Bin Laden not in custody yet?

His head was offered "on a platter" (my exaggeration) and Bill Clinton didn't get him.  Remember the first WTC attack? 

As you said, what to do about this economy and country's sad state is a gamble.

LuAnn, have you done your homework on what MOST LIKELY caused this economic "crash?"  Ever hear about Feddie and Fannie and Dodd, and Barney and a few others.  I CHALLENGEyou again, LuAnn, to watch these two videos to the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmL-lXNy64

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

THE WARNING WAS THERE.  PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK

Rosemary44

Yes, all president's have advisors.  We've seen the company Obama likes to keep.  Remember one thing, it looks good that there will be 60 democratic Senators and a good majority of dems in the House also.  They'll be able to pass anything.  If you spend any time watching C-SPAN that should scare the hell out of anyone. 

No one knows yet how much Obama's health care for children will cost on monthyly basis.  One woman called the radio to ask if anyone heard the amount?  No one did.  It will be mandatory, or the parents will be fined.  If people can't afford it, then what?  No one asks these types of questions to Obama.  How much will it cost say a family with 4 kids? 

I'm hoping the independents wake up in time.

djd

Shirley - to blame Clinton for 9/11 is absolutely ridiculous.

When Clinton left office, he warned Bush to keep an eye on Osama Bin Laden.  We learned, in April, 2004, that Bush received a daily presidential briefing, while he was on VACATION for a MONTH at his ranch in Crawford, Texas, in August of 2001, that said, "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US."

If Clinton would have gotten OBL when he had the chance, 3000+ Americans would have lived to see 9/12/2001.

But "I betcha" Bush would have done a "heckuva job" finding an excuse to go to war with Iraq.  That was his goal from day 1.

ibcspouse

Ibcspouse's National Health Program

Everybody that is not on Medicare or Medicaid should provide their own Heath insurance either by themselves or with employer programs.  This insurance would be at least a standard benefit policy with the following features:

1. A 100 dollar deductible, 20 percent co-pay up to 3000 dollars. 
2. Should have a cap that insurance will not pay any single illness or injury over 50 thousand dollars regardless if it goes over a calendar year.
3. There cannot be a pre-existing condition exclusion
4. This should be a competitive policy, with test and procedures based upon Doctor's decisions not bean counters. 
5. If one is on unemployment or temp disability then premiums are to be paid by additional contributions to unemployment by employers.
6. A national catastrophic dx or injury Insurance Policy much like ChampVA or Federal Employee be provided to all.  This to be paid for by the 5000 dollar refundable tax credit McCain proposes.  This policy kicks in with a catastrophic dx or over 50000 dollars of any illness.  This is an insurance policy that will allow treatment at any provider that accepts payment of policy as payment in full.  No charges are to be the patients/

This would do two things.  First it will give a comprehensive insurance that would be affordable that would cover most families care on a private basis.  Since expenditure is limited to 50000, and co pays and deductible, the policy should be very reasonable.

The federal policy would in effect, have a 50000 dollar deductible.  This should be affordable to the federal government. 

OK ladies, your turn for an idea, or comment on mind.

Rosemary44

50k might be too low for some illnesses.  Why are you keeping medicare and medicaid?  This is your plan IBC.  There's too much fraud in both those government plans going on.  That's why no one likes to see another government health care plan starting up.  

ibcspouse

Rosemary44

50k because it keeps the premiums low.  It still causes people to contribute and pay for their own healthcare until it becomes too great a cost to pay.  I would keep medicare and medicaid for seniors and poor and because those programs are out of control..  The fact that the federal part of this program does not kick in till 50k, I believe if would limit fraud because of the higher level of treatment.  Most fraud occures at lower level of care. 

I don't mind government helping, I just believe that personal responcibility comes first, with this plan we have both.

sccruiser

Shirley: Grace, I really want to be nice.

No, I don't think you do. You are free to believe whatever you want to believe. I'm sorry but I am not "mesmerized" by Obama. If Hillary had been the candidate, I would have voted for her.

If McCain were the Democratic candidate, I still could not vote for him. He really has made so many mistakes. Now it turns out he's had involvement with Acorn. So no one's hands are clean.

AND, for your information, Shirley, I never "race baited" anyone on the other thread. You asked me, and I thought you were being honest in asking me, and really wanted me to answer your question about what you could do--however, it's obvious you never had any intention of doing anything about whatever perspectives you have about race or how you were conditioned by your upbringing about race, so I'm sorry I wasted my time sharing the titles of a few books you could read.

I have never discussed anyone's body parts or talked about how family members of the candidates should dress. I have never stated that I "hated" another spouse of a candidate. Other people on the other thread have posted those comments. And I recall comments being made about Michelle Obama and their children on this thread. So, again, no ones' hands are clean here.

I have read posts on this thread, and was interested enough to educate myself about this election. I watch all the different news groups on TV--whether conservative or liberal. I felt that I was not giving the conservative side a fair shake. So, I truly attempted to view the debate in an unbiased way. Perhaps I didn't succeed in your eyes, but I did in mine, which is why I posted here. 

And whether anyone believes it or not, does not matter to me. I truly did try to listen to the debate and try to understand where McCain is coming from. I know what my truth is. I have nothing to feel guilty about. And I am tolerant whether you believe it or not. McCain blew it when he chose Palin. Definitely not the person I would have chosen for the job if he wanted her to be a role model for all women. However, I consider the attempts of Larry Flynt and any other purveyors of porn to make x rated movies with a "palin like" persona to be truly obscene and criminal.

So, if we remove "coolness" from the equation of Obama and the debate, he clearly had the most substance in answering the questions. He stuck to the points he wanted to make in answering the questions, and didn't go off on some tangent and talk to the people watching like he was giving a lecture, or thought the public was not smart enough.

 And I love you too Anneshirley. But above is my story and I'm sticking to it!!

Anonymous

LuAnnH wrote:

So Obama isn't running against Bush, just another repub that follows his same line of thinking.

You're so wrong.  You don't like the surge, but LuAnn, it worked.  McCain fought Rumsfeld and Bush.  He warned them that there wasn't enough troops.  He was not popular in his own party.  Finally in 2007 Bush sent in more troops.  I heard today that the troops are pulling out of Fallujah.  Fallujah has been one hell'uva battle.

I am also tired of hearing how mcCain talks about knowing more about war tha Obama, well war today is very different than war 30 years ago.  When McCain fought, the soldiers literally fought hand to hand combat.  Now we can pinpoint a target thousands of miles away and destroy it with a missile and not cause any injury to our people.  We couldn't do that in McCains time.

Well, what went wrong when Bill Clinton hit the aspirin factory?  OOPS!  Mistake?  Bad info?

CNN:  U S FACES COURT ACTION OVER SUDAN BOMBING

http://edition.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/africa/07/28/factory7_28.a.tm/

U.S. faces court action over Sudan bombing

July 28, 2000
Web posted at: 11:25 AM EDT (1525 GMT)

By Tony Karon

"Our forces ... attacked a factory in Sudan associated with the bin Laden network," President Clinton told the world on August 20, 1998. "The factory was involved in the production of materials for chemical weapons."

Wrong on both counts, says the plant's owner, and he's setting out to prove it.

The president was referring to a cruise missile strike, which, together with another on Afghanistan, he ordered in retaliation for the bombing of two U.S. embassies in East Africa, bombings that were allegedly authored by reputed super-terrorist Osama bin Laden.

But Salah Idris, who owns the Al Shifa pharmaceuticals plant in Sudan that was destroyed in the attack, has hired a Washington law firm and marshaled evidence to disprove both the chemical weapons charges and the bin Laden link. His attorney, Stephen Brogan, filed suit in Washington, D.C., Thursday, seeking compensation from the U.S. government.

Of course this isn't about Clinton, who relies entirely on his security advisers for such information. But Idris' complaint notes that U.S. officials steadily backed away from allegations about the factory and its owner that were made in the weeks following the strike, eventually basing their justification for the attack primarily on the claim that a soil sample collected near the plant contained traces of EMPTA, a chemical compound used in the manufacture of VX nerve gas.

That's why Idris' lawyers commissioned research institutes in Boston and the Netherlands to independently examine samples taken from the ruins of the plant, which experts agree would likely still contain substantial evidence of chemical weapons agents were any being produced there. Both studies found no trace of EMPTA.

But forensics aside, even the media coverage of the Sudan strike gave Idris' attorneys plenty to work with. Within hours of the strike, sources ranging from Western diplomats and experts in the Sudan to unnamed U.S. government officials were questioning Washington's claims.

And as these "facts" came under withering fire, Washington began to noticeably backpedal. A number of Al Shifa clients, including the United Nation, stepped forward to testify that they'd purchased pharmaceuticals from the factory, which in fact produced almost half of Sudan's supply of antibiotics, painkillers, antimalarials and other medicines for both humans and animals. Western diplomats and engineers who'd spent time at the plant pooh-poohed the claims that it was guarded, citing regular tours by students and every visiting dignitary.

And a number of experts familiar with the plant said it lacked some of the basic requirements of a chemical weapons facility. In response, intelligence officials offered a tragicomic explanation for their denial that Al Shifa produced pharmaceuticals: The factory's Web site offered no medicines for sale. Others began suggesting that EMPTA may have been stored at or transported through rather than manufactured at Al Shifa.

Having discovered only after the strike that Idris was the owner of the plant, some U.S. officials alleged he was linked with bin Laden and other terrorist groups. But despite these claims, Idris was never added to the State Department's terrorist watch list, for which he'd have been an obvious candidate if the link was strong enough to justify bombing a factory. And last year Washington quietly released his assets in U.S. financial institutions, which had been frozen following the raid. The Wall Street Journal characterized Idris as "a Westernized Saudi Arabian banker" with no known ties to Islamic extremists. Islamic fundamentalist terrorists and their acolytes certainly aren't generally in the habit of filing suit in Washington, D.C.

A month after the bombing, the New York Times reported, that many governmental officials were asking "whether questionable intelligence had prompted the United States to blow up the wrong building." And last October, the Times even alleged that the State Department had suppressed an in-house intelligence report challenging the official justification for the program.

Of course, the U.S. doesn't glibly fire cruise missiles at a factory in a far-off country. The decision was taken against the backdrop of the pressure to retaliate for the embassy strike, very real concerns that bin Laden might be planning further attacks using chemical weapons, Sudan's history as a haven for terrorists (including bin Laden) and evidence that bin Laden had sought to develop chemical weapons there. All of that, and a soil sample showing traces of a nerve gas building block.

The administration's position was summed up a month after the missile strike by National Security Adviser Sandy Berger: "With the knowledge that we had... had we not hit that target and had bin Laden used chemical weapons in a terrorist attack, I don't know how we could have looked the American people in the face."

Until now, the administration has stuck by its decision to target Al Shifa, despite the doubts cast by the leakers and the critics, and it has resisted calls for an independent investigation. But now the man who lost a $30 million investment wants Washington to either pony up or else prove its case in one of its own courts.

Copyright © 2000 Time Inc.

Back to me.  Wasn't it Sandy Berger who was caught sneaking out with secret documents stuffed in his suit?  Call me on it if I'm wrong.  My memory is failing me.

Anonymous

LuAnnH wrote:  

I am also tired of hearing how mcCain talks about knowing more about war tha Obama, well war today is very different than war 30 years ago.  When McCain fought, the soldiers literally fought hand to hand combat.  Now we can pinpoint a target thousands of miles away and destroy it with a missile and not cause any injury to our people.  We couldn't do that in McCains time.

I'm using the same quote from your post. You'll have to ask IBC about this, but I don't think in McCains time they fought hand to hand combat.  He may have already answered this.  I'm still picking apart your post.  LOL  You tire me, girl!  Just remember.  We live in a very dangerous world.  Look at what Russia's doing.  Look what Iran is doing.  They want to blow Israel off the face of the earth.  Look at what Korea is doing.  These are very evil people.

So, you think this is better..listen to Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcqhoiK8-Ww

Anonymous

Beesie wrote:

Bush was too quick to jump and yes, I do think that he had his own personal agenda. 

Beesie, we can agree to disagree.  However, I would like to know who gave Clinton his misinformation about what I posted to LuAnn about the Sudan bombing?  Do you think just perhaps that Clinton had his own agenda in bombing the plant in Sudan..remember Monica Lewinsky.  Perhaps he wanted to take the eye OFF HIM and this SEX SCANDAL. 

I'm sorry.  Call me naive.  I do not think Bush had an agenda and just sent our troops in harms way.  Do you sincerely think that Bush is stupid enough to want to be accused of sending troops into war for his personal agenda and have it go down in history or leave the office with this legacy?  I think history will finally prove him right.  Call me naive.  And, believe it or not, President Bush is not as stupid as you think. 

Shirley

LuAnnH

Shirley if the surged worked why are they still battling so hard in Iraq, yes troops may have pulled out of Fallujah but what about the hot spots that are still battling hard daily.  Have you heard of (now my spelling is going to kill me) Diylah, Mosul, darn another city on the border of Iraq and either Syria or Pakistan that is helping al queada sneak in and out of the country.  Baghdad is still having alot of trouble.  They are starting to try and get the economy going and getting the market running but it is to dangerous to be there.  Do you know that these terrorist are asking people for their ID when they are out and about, your ID says what your religious affiliations are.  If you are christian they kill you on the spot.  It is terrible.  So what has the surge done for this area.  I watch the news daily of all the attacks and killing going on here.  These are places they won't even allow the media because it is so dangerous.

So everytime I hear about this surge I know it hasn't achieved this goal they give the public.  I see photos that are taken from these areas.  I see the listings of the deaths of young men that are being killed there.  The surge in these areas is a joke.  the terrorist run in and out of the country at will so as our soldiers raid the homes they leave.  When the raids slow down they return.  They are never going to stop al queada at the rate we are going.  Any iraqi citizen that is seen helping the US will be killed for being a traitor.  It is just horrible.  My turn to say do your homework before you say a surge is working.

Ok maybe I exargerate hand to hand combat but you understand what I am sayng.  War is different today that it was when John McCain was in it.  And being in a war and knowing how to lead an army is different things.  A leader is a leader whether he has the vast experience you want him to have or not.  Some people have the finesse to get peoples attention.

Now I am hearing Sarah Palin gave the Keynote speech for the Alaskan Independent Party.  These people make explosives and do terroristic activities and want alaska to be disassociated from the US.  Sounds like she is paling around with terrorist now.

And then another hot topic in the news tonight is that the republicans (or was it John McCain directly, was dealing with a colicky baby while listening) had a hand in ACORN and some of the fraudulant registrations.  Funny how the truth eventually comes out.  You mustn't throw stones when you live in glass houses.

Anything I missed Shirley?  You know you have me so busy here I am not keeping up as well on my mets forum.  You know I'm going to have to tell them it's your fault when they wonder where I went  LOL 

pinoideae

.  

LuAnnH

oh yeah, why won't anyone respond in reference to the Katie Couric interview?  If sarah is such a good candidate how could she sounded so airheaded when talking with the media?

pinoideae

.

LuAnnH

war is terrible and I hate the fact we were duped into being in a war for personal reasons.