The Respectfully Republican Conversation

Anonymous

Instead of vouchers, how about tax credits, good for purchases from dealers of cars made in America?  That way we know that the money is going to create more jobs here rather than using our tax money to support job growth in other countries while plants here are shut down in a cost cutting measure.  That would give an infusion of cash to the dealers, the local economy (employee lunches etc.) the american parts dealers, etc.

There would be no outlay of government (borrowed) money up front, just an incentive to buy american that can be adjusted to include pre-owned cars, or not, and leased vehicles or not as time goes on. 

Rosemary44

The car companies need money, with vouchers coming in, they get it pretty quickly.  Tax credits?  How does that give money to the car companies now? 

Sure, It will have to be any car made in America.  That would include Toyota and Honda, and maybe the German cars?  No imports that aren't made here. 

ijl

We should just use the same approached we used with the agriculture here. We pay farmers not to grow, we can pay automakers not to make cars . It will be also good for environment

badboob67

The other thing about cars is that the banking crisis is making it harder for people to finance them! Banks are being very tight about extending credit now--which they probably should have been doing all along. I don't know anyone who is even considering buying a new car. Of course, I live in a very depressed part of the country that relies heavily on industrial plants and occupations. We've had a few plants close here recently and more is coming. Several are related to the auto industry.  My dh is being layed off next week; I don't think it's a coincidence that a good percentage of the work his plant does is connected to the auto industry in some way.

I was listening to NPR on the long drive to my onc on Thursday. Elizabeth Warren, who is chairman of the bank bailout oversight committee,  was on.It was shocking to hear her talk about the way things have been happening with the bailout and what she wants to change about it. Basically, all a bank has to do to get their money is to prove they're a bank! There are no conditions or anything compelling banks to do anything but take the money. If you want to listen or read more about it, check here: 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98123372

The complete lack of competence the govt has shown so far in the bank bailout is frightening. It surely doesn't give me much confidence that things are going to improve much. The auto industry is paying for the incompetence...since congress is hearing all the complaining about how they screwed up the bank thing, they're doing what they should have done with the bank bailout BEFORE they implemented it.

Food prices are up, 10-12% of homeowners are in foreclosure, unemployment is running rampant...something needs to be done to help the "average Joe". While a car can arguably be called a "necessity" in today's society, a NEW car is not on the radar for those of us just struggling to get by. Keeping and even creating jobs in the industry can help, but if there's no one  buying the product...where's that going to lead?

Rosemary44

The only car company we really need to keep afloat is GM because they make our war vehicles.  They have to stay.  I just don't see how they can pay them to keep making cars that we aren't buying?  They must be selling a certain amount of cars, just not enough?

Anonymous

The automobile industry is in this position because of its collaboration with the energy industry to control cafe standards and to keep Americans guzzling gasoline.

The energy industry - which is one of the only industries making out like a bandit under this republican administration - should bail them out.

Anonymous

Tax credits could work much the same way the rebates for installing energy efficient heating/cooling systems work.  If you buy a new car, you get a certain dollar amount, or percentage off your federal taxes, and used cars could have a different amount.  There is a monetary incentive for people to buy cars they might otherwise not be able to afford right now, even if they need a new(er) car.  The car companies get their money from actual sales, which means that the local dealers keep jobs in their local communities as well as the production jobs. 

The thing about doing it through the tax credits, you could make changes pretty quickly to which vehicles are included, and the level of incentives in response to changes (hopefully improvements) in the economy, wheras vouchers need to be applied for before you could begin shopping, and would be good for a specific time period, and would be more difficult to adjust as things change.   

Anonymous

GM and Ford make more than cars and trucks .. they make chassis for motorhomes and busses.  What's striking me is that Freightliner, Spartan, Mack, Peterbuilt, Volvo, etc are not screaming to be part of the bailout ... 

I also think it's ridiculous to have such diversification within one company ...  like Pontiac, Saturn, Buick, GM and Chevy ... all one company!!  They really need to consolidate, save money on advertising, logos, different printing materials, etc .. You have the Saturn Aura which is the same as the Chevy Malibu, the Chevy Tahoe and GM Yukon are the same, it goes on and on ...

Anonymous

Here's another poem I got ...

*Twas the month before Christmas*
*When all through our land,*
*Not a Christian was praying*
*Nor taking a stand.*
*See the PC Police had taken away,*
*The reason for Christmas - no one could say.*
*The children were told by their schools not to sing,*
*About Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things.*
*It might hurt people's feelings, the teachers would say*
* December 25th is just a 'Holiday'.*
*Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and credit*
*Pushing folks down to the floor just to get it!*
*CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-pod*
*Something was changing, something quite odd! *
*Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa*
*In hopes to sell books by Franken & Fonda.*
*As Targets were hanging their trees upside down*
* At Lowe's the word Christmas - was no where to be found.*
*At K-Mart and Staples and Penny's and Sears*
*You won't hear the word Christmas; it won't touch your ears.*
*Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-si-ty*
*Are words that were used to intimidate me.*
*Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen*
*On Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry, on Clinton!*
*At the top of the Senate, there arose such a clatter*
*To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter.*
*And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith*
* Forbidden to speak of salvation and grace*
*The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded*
*The reason for the season, stopped before it started.*
*So as you celebrate 'Winter Break' under your 'Dream Tree'*
*Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.*
*Choose your words carefully, choose what you say*
*Shout MERRY CHRISTMAS , not Happy Holiday!*

vivre

You gals should be runnin this country instead of the dimwits in DC. It sure would make sense to give people a tax credit for buying a car. This would loosen up credit, people and companies will not just be getting a handout and it will be harder to end in corruption.

Ooo KA La Homa  . . . where the wind comes streamin' down the plains. .  . Now I know where to retire.

Anonymous

Sherri,

The town where I grew up always had a lifesize nativity scene in the middle of the traffic circle that was the start of the business district.  The ACLU found out, made a fuss, and a Menorah was added to the display.  That apparently wasn't enough, because this was "town property" so all possible religious beliefs needed to be represented. 

The town got to the point where they couldn't put up any of the decorations due to the threat of lawsuits. 

They solved the problem when the local Catholic church which is in the middle of the business district on the main street through town offered to "host" both the manger, and the menorah, and any other holiday displays.  So now the Catholic chuch in the small mostly white, mostly christian town that I grew up in has a menorah and a kwanza symbol at the doors of the church alongside the nativity scene every Christmas season.  The Chamber of Commerce has their Christmas decorations in the business district, and everyone feels welcomed to participate in the festivities, just not on "public properties".

ijl

I just wanted to say how proud I am of the women on this thread. I know we sometimes disagree between ourselves and with some "visiting democrats". But we don't delete posts by some anonymous means just because we don't like it. I just came from Obama thread where a woman posted regarding another site where women formed a clique and then would run a poster from a board sort of speak by join attack. 3 hours later her post was gone,perhaps it hit too close to home for some. I am so mad!

I posted there telling them that those who did it were a bunch of cowards. And then I thought of this board and how we don't do that and felt better. The ironic thing those moronic cowards actually proved her point by conducting a joint clique attack.

Anonymous

You're right ilj .. I see her post over here.  I don't think anyone minded her coming in here.  But me thinks that Barb is another poster in disguise ... I saw that post before it was deleted.  Seems Barb and jaedeen suddenly appear on the scene ready to rumble, not the norm for new posters.

ijl

RB,

I don't know whether Barb and jaedeen are one and the same.  It  could be  pure coincidence. Her post was not inflamatory or offensive. They could have just ignored it. Instead they took this cowardly way out. If they called her out on that , I would have been OK with this,

vivre

The moon is full and closer to the earth than it has been in 15 years. The shooting stars are out. Weird stuff is happening. Happy Solstice to You all!(that is Merry Christmas in atheist talk).

Anonymous

I just want to say.....

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!! 

It won't be long before Christmas will no longer be a holiday.  Don'tcha just hate it when you hear someone say, holiday tree?  So stupid!  And, I hate it when I hear, Winter break.  It WAS called, Christmas break or holiday.  We'd have the Christmas Holidays off from school.  And I know the Jewish community did not mind "Christmas."  I don't think many real religions do.  I believe it's mostly the atheist!  Hmmmm...I have a wonderful idea.  The atheist could all get together and have their own country and their own constitution and their own laws.  Better yet, they don't need a constitution or laws.   Do whatever feels good!

Shirley

$$$$

Anonymous

Roctobermom, I loved the poem.  I will be sending it out!  We need reminding!

Anonymous

Rosemary, your poem is oh, so true!

Anonymous

Speaking of Christmas, I posted my pics of our tree and decorations,  it's in this Moving On forum.  Shirl, I guess I could say, it's "udderly ridiculous" to be forced to be so pc.... I can see if you live in neighborhoods where being christian is not the norm ... or if you know that someone is not christian but for many, Christmas isn't even a religious holiday ...  Santa came to my daughter's school. The Fire Department drives him around on the fire truck ... And he is saying, "Merry Christmas."  The signs at the Christmas tree lots say, "Christmas tree" not Holiday tree.

But

I

Anonymous

Woops double posted before I even finished ..

I was going to say, that at work, when I answer the phones, I do say Happy Holidays ... I don't want someone to be mad and tell me they don't celebrate Christmas ... no need to start off on the wrong foot...When I am the customer though, and shopping for Christmas, I say Merry Christmas. If someone said something then, I would just say, "well, I hope you have a nice day off."

Anonymous

Rocktobermom, I realize that when one is at work one MUST say, happy holidays.  My dds do.  It's the PC thing to do.  It just wasn't like that when I was young.  In fact, this has only been controversial in the last few years.  And I realize one has to say, holiday party when it comes to work.  One can't have a Christmas party at work anymore...GOD FORBID. 

Rocktobermom, years ago we didn't have to worry about anyone getting angry with us because we said Merry Christmas.  It's about the ACLU and the atheist.  Did you see the ACLU defend Joe the Plumber when his privacy was invaded?  And the dimwits get mad because we have the Patriot Act?  No dems came out to say IT WAS WRONG WHAT THEY DID TO JOE.  I don't even remember BO defending Joe.

I'm just so sick of having to bow down to the far left and atheist.  If we don't take a stand we will have every single thing with God's name on it removed.  They are taking away my rights. 

If I worked outside the home I would also be forced to say, Happy holidays, etc.  I'm just finding it sadder and sadder.

Shirley

Anonymous

Atheists Post Hateful Christmas Sign
By Floyd and Mary Beth Brown
December 13, 2008

"Freedom of speech was never meant to be a license for fringe groups to insult and antagonize the rest of us," says Larry Stickney, President of the Washington Values Alliance. "While we must all do our best to respect the opinion of those we don't agree with," he says, "the 1st Amendment also guarantees our constitutional right to carry on our nation's religious culture and traditions and we should be able to do so without petty harassment."

The saga all started in October when Washington State gave a permit to a Wisconsin-based atheist group to display its sign alongside a Christian Nativity scene in the state's Capitol in Olympia. The lengthy message on the sign states in part, "At this season of the Winter Solstice, may reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell." It then goes into hateful attack mode, saying, "There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

Since the atheist sign went up on December 1, Democratic Gov. Christine Gregoire's telephone switchboard has been flooded with calls voicing complaints, up to 200 calls an hour. Calls mushroomed following Bill O'Reilly's Fox News show highlighting the controversial sign. O'Reilly calls it "political correctness gone mad."

Stickney explained the faulty logic of those allowing the exhibition of the hateful atheist sign: "Here is where Gregoire and other Olympia liberals' erroneous interpretation of free speech and the 1st Amendment breaks down," he said. "In their world, it's okay to verbally pummel tens of thousands of Christians and disrespect their holidays, but don't you dare open your mouth disparagingly about a minority religion or a deviant sexual lifestyle or you will likely be fired and/or charged with a hate crime." Stickney summarizes: "The constitutional right to exercise free speech anytime and anywhere applies to liberals and their politically correct causes and classifications only."

Outraged by this sign that mocks religions, this week more than 500 demonstrators rallied on the steps of the state Capitol to protest. Five days after it was placed near a large bust of George Washington, the placard created by the Wisconsin-based organization, Freedom From Religion Foundation, vanished. It reappeared later in the day when a man turned it over to a Seattle radio station.

Dan Barker, co-president of FFRF says it is only fair for them "to also have a place at the table." More likely, the sign is a great publicity stunt for the group, for why else would they have chosen the month of December to display it? One atheist said in a popular blog they found "the idea of celebrating the Winter Solstice almost as absurd as celebrating Christian holidays". For Mr. Barker's information, winter solstice celebrations are an ancient pagan festival, from a polytheist religion. (Oops! We thought they said they are against all religion. It looks like ones worshipping many gods is OK with them although they say differently in their sign.) Another atheist online took exception with the sign saying that the attack on religion is making a bad name for atheism. Barker and the FFRF are obviously using the winter solstice in December as a poor excuse to express their hatred towards Christians who celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ at Christmas and Jewish observers of Hanukkah. A "Holiday tree," aka Christmas tree, has been displayed for the last nineteen years and in the past, a Jewish menorah has also displayed by a private group.

Gov. Gregoire is weakly bowing under pressure by this fringe group by passing the buck to state Attorney General Rob McKenna. She said Republican McKenna advised her that the Constitution's First Amendment free speech rights keep her from interfering with the atheist's message.

"The bottom line is this," concludes Stickney. "The atheist's display is in bad taste and it was a bad call to give them a permit this time of year...Allowing groups like these to thumb their nose at those who believe in God during the sacred Christmas holiday runs counter to sensible decorum and keeping the peace. There are many appropriate forums, both public and private for these folks to promote atheism, this isn't one of them."

----------

$$$$

Shirley

saluki

Sherri--Festivus---just for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4ip9ZCIM9g

Anonymous

$hirley, if the atheists display their sign mocking Christians, I am sure if the tables were turned and the Christians displayed a sign saying atheists were going to hell, that there would be an uproar .. Can you imagine if instead of Jo 3:16 being displayed at football games, what would happen if it was 1Cor 6:9-11 ??  O-la-la ....people would think it poor taste and complain to high heaven.  

I guess this is where religion does come into play --- the atheists, those without God, feel it's ok to judge and superimpose their view on others. To them, they don't want to live and let live, they want to be condescending and mocking.  To be a Christian, one must leave it for God to judge. My arms are too short to box with God, so I won't even try!

Anonymous

You know, now that I think of it, I am surprised that atheists and liberals are even Democrats.  The Democratic ideology has to do with the Federal government basically making all the decisions for everyone in the USA ... Republican party leaves most of it to the states to decide what they want to do ... basically live and let live as long as it's not breaking Federal laws already in place.

Ok, now I am not saying that all republicans are that way but alot of them are ... Like gay marriage .. let the states decide what they want to do --- obviously not all republicans are against it ... Think Log Cabin group within the Republican party.

Well, it's so slow at our work lately ... I think everyone is waiting for the bailout and waiting for Obama to take office.  People need to feel safe and secure and right now, it's scary times out here.

If anybody needs a good executive assistant or finance manager, sales rep, etc let me know!!

Anonymous

Here's an excerpt re Obama ...  I really, really, need him to turn things around. I hope that he is not going to implement any costly gov't programs or green programs at this dire time.

----------------------------

Comparatively, Obama has been on the national stage for a short time. He was introduced to the country during the Democratic convention in 2004 when he was in the Illinois Legislature and running for the U.S. Senate. Age 47, he will become president after serving just four years in the Senate

Most historians liken the situation facing Obama to that which confronted Roosevelt - but the comparison does not seem to do justice to the colossal challenges Obama is facing.

Roosevelt was already an established politician when he came into office at the depths of the Great Depression in a society with no safety net for the suffering. And the economy was much worse then than it is now. But he did not have two wars on his plate, nor a political scandal swirling nearby. And Roosevelt did not have a planet suffering from global warming and watching its natural resources dwindle.

He also let his four-month transition pass by keeping his distance from Republican Herbert Hoover. The two men had sharp policy differences over how to address the Great Depression, and Roosevelt stayed mum between his election and his inauguration.

Not Obama. He's been extraordinarily active since his election.

With each new bit of bad economic news, he makes his views known - though he always is careful to defer to Bush when it's decision time. As president-elect, however, Obama's words now carry the power to move financial markets - perhaps even more so than those of Bush.

He has held regular news conferences to announce his Cabinet, and he gives the Democratic radio address on most weekends.

"Part of what he's doing is paying lip service to the notion that there's only one president while sucking up all the oxygen," Greenstein said.

Politically, with things so bad, Obama can claim any change for the better as a success. If the economic and security situation deteriorates further, he can rightly say he inherited a mess.

Obama won the election with more than 50 percent of the popular vote, and nearly three-fourths of people in an AP-GfK poll last week said they approved of how Obama has been handling the transition.

----------------------------

Anonymous

Sherri, they tightened up and even closed their door to us ... Sorry, we no longer do RV loans.  We have fewer choices.  The banks lied ... and the rates are higher.  Now if you want a mortgage, the rates are lower but our debt to income doesn't jive anymore ...

If we can make it thru we will adjust ... the customers will adjust their sights ... sales people will show smaller units that cost less. But we have few customers walking in the door.  Alot of dealers are just closing the doors.

saluki

Oversight???  So what else is new?  Ya gotta love it!

---------------------------------

latimes.com    
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-union13-2008dec13,0,6257988.story
From the Los Angeles Times
Union-founded nonprofit spent zero on its charitable purpose in two years
The charity was founded by a scandal-ridden Los Angeles chapter of the Service Employees International Union. Its stated aim was to provide housing to low-income workers.
By Paul Pringle

December 13, 2008

A nonprofit organization founded by California's largest union local reported spending nothing on its charitable purpose -- to develop housing for low-income workers -- during at least two of the four years it has been operating, federal records show.

The charity, launched by a scandal-ridden Los Angeles chapter of the Service Employees International Union, had total expenses of about $165,000 for 2005 and 2006, and all of the money went to consulting fees, insurance costs and other overhead, according to its Internal Revenue Service filings.

Charity watchdogs say that nonprofits should never have zero program expenses in two successive years and that well-performing charities direct at least 70% of their annual spending to their charitable purpose.

"Of the 5,000-plus charities we've looked at, I don't think we've ever seen one that didn't spend anything on its charitable programs," said Sandra Miniutti, vice president of Charity Navigator, an online rating service.

Last year, the nonprofit reported spending $513,000 in connection with a Compton housing development, and $59,200 in consulting fees for its charitable programs, which together accounted for about 88% of its total outlays.

The primary mission of the charity -- the Long Term Care Housing Corp. -- is to provide affordable homes for the local's members, most of whom earn about $9 an hour caring for the elderly and infirm. But SEIU officials declined to discuss the charity, saying it is a separate legal entity from the union, even though its board is dominated by officials from the local. The charity is located at the local's headquarters.

Tyrone Freeman, then president of the 160,000-member United Long-Term Care Workers, helped start the charity in 2004. Freeman and the local are the subjects of a federal criminal probe and a congressional inquiry because of his spending practices. After an internal investigation, the SEIU accused Freeman and another former union officer of receiving improper payments from the nonprofit.

Freeman, who stepped aside in August, less than two weeks after The Times first reported on his financial dealings, has been banned for life from SEIU membership or employment. The SEIU has ordered him to pay the union more than $1 million in restitution. Attorneys for Freeman and others involved in the charity declined to comment.

The nonprofit is also caught up in the federal and internal investigations. The Times reported that the charity had listed the home of a union official as its administrative address, had failed to obtain a federal tax exemption and had lost the right to do business in California.

The charity had also claimed to have a relationship with the prominent California Community Foundation, which said it had never heard of the organization.

Exemption granted

Despite the legal troubles, the IRS has since granted the group an exemption retroactive to 2004, and its right to do business has been restored, according to the California secretary of state's office. IRS officials declined to discuss the matter.

The charity did not file an IRS return -- a Form 990 -- in 2004, apparently because it had revenues of less than the reporting threshold of $25,000. In 2005, it sold $495,000 in unspecified "inventory" and made nearly $87,000 in gross returns from the sale, its sole reported source of revenue that year, according to the IRS documents. Los Angeles County assessor records show that the nonprofit sold two Compton homes in 2005 for amounts that totaled $495,000.

It could not be determined why the nonprofit did not report where it obtained the $495,000 in inventory, or why it did not list any part of the transaction as a charitable program expense.

The charity reported paying consulting fees of $31,000 in 2005 and nearly $68,000 the following year but did not specify who received the money. In 2006, the union donated $50,120 to the nonprofit, which appeared to be the charity's only income. The nonprofit ended the year with a $56,000 deficit and a negative net worth.

In 2007, the charity reported revenue of $633,000, although it did not specify the source. It listed its biggest expenses as the $513,000 for a contractor for the Alameda Court project in Compton, described on the city's website as a 28-town-house development; and $60,385 for consultant services from Kenya Nelson, who is identified on the nonprofit's website as the organization's executive director. The charity again had a negative net worth, and a $17,850 deficit.

Attempts to reach Nelson were unsuccessful.

John Ronches, an SEIU trustee who has been running the local since Freeman stepped down, declined to comment.

Transparency urged

Laurie Styron, vice president of the American Institute of Philanthropy, said the nonprofit should be more forthcoming. "Charities have an ethical obligation to be transparent," she said.

The SEIU has accused Freeman of taking about $2,400 a month in improperpayments from the housing nonprofit from January through June of this year, in addition to a lump sum of $14,500. The payments were part of a self-dealing "consulting agreement," the SEIU said in a report. The union said Freeman "controlled and directed" the charity.

Freeman's former chief of staff, Rickman Jackson, whose Bell Gardens home was listed as the charity's address, has been ousted as president of the SEIU's largest Michigan local because, the union alleges, he received improper lease payments of $33,500 from the nonprofit. Jackson, who was president of the nonprofit's board, could not be reached.

Former California Atty. Gen. John Van de Kamp, who has been advising the SEIU on its internal investigation, said the union could determine that only one nonprofit meeting was held at the Bell Gardens home. Jackson is repaying the $33,500 in installments plus interest, an SEIU spokeswoman said.

In the meantime, Compton is investigating whether Freeman and the nonprofit defrauded the city by accepting a gift of municipal land when it had no tax exemption.

An attorney for the charity, former Assemblyman Dario Frommer, said the charity is cooperating in the investigation. He declined to comment further.

Attorneys for the nonprofit have said the initial failure to obtain the tax exemption was the result of a "routine" IRS request for more information.

Pringle is a Times staff writer

paul.pringle@latimes.com



 

moodyk13

Okay, time for some "slapstick" comedy.  I am fully qualified to supply it too.  (That and I have Reader's Digest)

"On my parent's 50th anniversary, I remarked to my father that he and Mom never seemed to fight.  'We battled', he said 'but it never amounted to much.  After a while, one of us always realized that I was wrong.'"

moodyk13

More "slapstick" just for my friends....aren't you glad your my friend?

"Driving home, we saw a vulture get run over while eating roadkill.  I was horrified, but my son was philosophical.  'Well,' he said, 'you are what you eat.'"