The Respectfully Republican Conversation

Anonymous

Rosemary, Bush is looking like a weakling.  He needs to show his face to us.  He needs to go slap some bank officials around.  He needs to fire Barney, Pelosi, Dodd and BO..oh..he can't do that..BO has been elected PEBO and Barney, Pelosi and Dodd have to be fired by their idiot constituents!  Talk about corrupt!  DON'T GET ME SARTED.  Oops, seems I'm getting my ownself started.

We should DEMAND that Pelosi give up her government, taxpaying private jet!  Who does SHE think SHE is?  Princess Di!?  She's probably hoping one day she'll be the prez and is just practicing.

Anonymous

Ya got that right, Rocktobermom!  IF you are going to listen to him speak...LISTEN CAREFULLY TO EVERY WORD.  It will be up to you to figure out the meaning of "is, we, I, they, CHANGE."  He does stammer for the RIGHT word/s.

Shirley

Rosemary44

Shirley,

If you listen to some talking heads, you'd think Bush was the hero of the day and Cheney.  What are they thinking?  Billions has no meaning to them at all.  We should all get prepared for the largest spending spree we've ever been witness to next month when they come out with that stimulus package.  We will see such junk in that bill our heads will be spinning.  Just think, we get to pay for it all and our grandchildren and their children.  That's our legacy to them.

And you know what kills me about all this?  They think they're doing us a favor.  They smile when they talk about the stimulus package.  Wait for the inflation to start to hit us.  That will be next. 

Anonymous

Rosemary, the politicians are not paying any attention to the polls.  People are overwhelming against these bailouts.  But, when DO they listen?

ibcspouse

It's fun hearing BO speak.  It is like a maze, you know there has to be a path there somewhere.  Today he told of how he spoke of the impending troubles with the car makers a year and a half ago.  I saw that speach, he basicly said long live the union, and Detroit has to make more green cars.  Nothing about a financial collapes of the USA auto market.  But to him it was close enough.  We are so lucky to have such a frigging genius as PE.  $$$$$

ijl

Shirley,

It was smart of you not to post over there  Amy posted saying that my IQ and education was inferior to hers after I pointed problems with Holland.

I think it is ironic that a lof of immigrants to Holland that Amy is defending are Muslims who do not tolerate gays at all. I brough it up a few times and she does have a lot of issues with this.

Anonymous

ughhhhhhhh

Have any of you ever heard of a different word or verbiage to descripe illegal immigrants?  Since when does using that term translate as to treating them as less than human?  Calling them displaced persons is not the same thing!!

Rosemary44

Rocktober,

You aren't losing your mind.  They are called illegal aliens or immigrants.  They have been, always will be called illegal aliens because that is what they are.  Parsing words is silly.  When one doesn't have a good argument, then its time to go after the messenger.  Total silliness.

Are we all paying attention to what the head of the UAW is saying?  He won't admit that his union members are earning $70+ bucks an hour when you factor in all their benefits.  They won't budge till their contract expires in 2011.  They are willing to give up the jobs bank, but it seems that's all.  Bush handing them money will not get them to become more competitive with Toyota and thus our $14 billion goes into the sink hole.  What is a car czar going to do if the union won't budge?

And Jesse Jackson, Jr. saying he did not talk with the Gov. of Illinois, nor did his representatives isn't exactly true.  DUH.  Yes, there was negotiations ongoing to get the money, $1million, to give to the Governor.  What a day.

ijl

Sherri,

 We all need to be more compassionate toward Amy, she is bound to be disappointed with Obama more and more as time marches on  There is a reason Obama approval is increasing among Republicans and decreasing among liberals.

Rosemary44

It's doubtful that Obama's standing is improving with Republicans.  We don't know how close this scandal will come to him or his staff.  There's a reason why Emanuel won't talk about it and he wasn't at the news conference yesterday.  Ask him no questions so he can't tell no lies?

Jesse Jackson, Jr. is denying everything, so that will mean the AG's office will have to investigate further.  On and on this will go.

Anonymous

Illegal alien, Illegal immigrant,  ...........I really really cannot believe that a "few" of those ladies really believe that it is wrong to call the the illegal immigrants by those terms!!!!  They would have us call them non-residents.  Now how does that differentiate the group of people we are referring to?  That term could refer to vacationers, ANYONE who doesn't live here.  In fact, that term is wrong altogether because they are living here!  They are illegal residents! 

Tell me, please, why on earth would we change our vocabulary when those around us -- the newspapers, the tv, the government, the people around us use those terms!  It was a campaign issue and that was the term!!!!!!

For some reason they think ONLY Republicans use that term.  I even put a link up ...showing them that even Democrats use that term!

Oh and lepers, don't say that either....I'm sure if I called someone a Hansen's Disease patient EVERYONE would know what I meant.  So, when you read an article about people with that disease in India, and it calls them a leper, I am guessing I should send the journalist a letter and ask him what social circle he travels in because that language is pejorative. 

Anonymous

I forgot to add $$$$$$$$!!

Rosemary44

If that is what goes on over there<------------------------------while all else is going nuts around us, then we get a glimpse into what is really important to them= Just Words. 

This is the latest report I could find that explains the profit difference between Toyota and the US automakers:

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car_news/japanese_automakers_lead_in_per_vehicle_profit_car_news

I have no idea how much it costs, bottom line, to manufacture a car in the U.S., but immediately they have to lop off $3000 in profits for the unions.  We can't compete.  So lets give them more money to keep doing the same. 

Rosemary44

I've been meaning to ask, what do those $$$ mean?  I missed something.

Sherri,

I just hope that they didn't pull the plug on the guy too soon.  Some are saying they should have waited till he actually got the money in from Jackson, Jr., then pounced.  I hope his telephone conversations will be enough.  They might have more, who knows.  It's going to be like dominos falling.  To save their own skins, no one is safe.  Look at Jackson, those in the meeting couldn't wait to come forward with all the details. 

Anonymous

ijl, I saw that post by Amy.  Kind of an attack, wouldn't you say?  According to her  I'm ignorant.  I'm a troll.  And according to Laura I'm a Drama queen.  According to Linora (I think that's her name) I just go over <---------------------- to cause trouble so I'm on her "ignore" list.   You're IQ is lower than hers.  Let's put it like this and I'm not trying to be hurtful.  Amy is not able to sit in a shrink's chair and listen to crazy people because she has fibromyalsia, so instead she's on disablilty.  Hmmm...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Anonymous

The best thing for all of us to do is to let those over <---------------------------------------- live in their little dream world.  But we over ------------------------------------------------------> better be paying a lot of attention to what is going on in Washington and Chicago and with auto bailouts..all kinds of bailouts.  We need to stay on top of things.  The republicans didn't go along with the Union so now Paulson is coming up with something.  I say..forget it!  The dems over <---------------------- should really be loving Bush right now.  I'm not. 

Where's Rambo?  In hiding? 

Anonymous

Grace asked me:   Are you sure about your first statement about the elderly coming legally and getting benefits? I don't believe that is correct

ilj answered:   I know answer to this, my uncles and aunts who came here when they were 60, receive SSI benefits. And they also get Medical/Medicare which is much better than my parents Medicare and they worked and retired here. Don't get me started on this

ilj .... thank you for answering that question 'over there' but you know that Grace will not acknowledge that.   I thought that was the case, I've heard so many people complain about it.  I've seen a lot of people from the Philippines come over but it used to be a US territory, so they did pay into SS.

---------------

I just went to SS's website ... you won't believe it!  They use the term "illegal aliens" all over their website.  That must be the proper term.

---------------

One of the guys here at work thought Bago was a Republican and was spouting off about crooked Reps.  When I told him that he was a Dem, he almost lost it!  Had to use the computer to verify it. He's shocked.  He is a huge Obama supporter.  He also is an ex GM labor relations manager. He was telling me that if you get laid off at GM, for a whole year you get 95% of your pay.  If they start hiring, you must hire from that pool (or bank) first. 

ibcspouse

You guys be nice to the ones over <------------------------------.  I am only glad the1960's didn't last any longer, if it had, I would have killed enough brain cells to be a far left liberal. 

Anonymous

Sherri, I think one thing with GM, who used to be quite profitable was the diversification that they started undertaking.  They started buying some other companies and even real estate for investment purposes, not for their use.  Waggoner has not been a good CEO for GM.

I feel bad for the workers ... they must be scared.  I am hoping for the bailout but I am hoping that serious reform happens ... like the huge salaries .. and no bonuses when your company loses money!  I think they do need to look at Toyota and Honda and try to copy their business model and then build cars that we want to buy. 

Anonymous

LOL, IBC.  Are you admitting to something..huh?  Did you inhale?  If yes, how often?  I'm so glad you still have your brains.  Geez!  Lepers, illegals, illegal aliens, Mexican haters cuz they speak Mexican (Spanish)...my brother married a Spanish gal and we loved her)....where do these people come up with such nonsense about "words." 

Well, I'm hear to tell ya.  More brains are falling completely out!  Check this out!  And there's more!!!! And the rationale is STUPID!  I'd rather be IGNORANT than STUPID!  Read more if you'd like to be a bit shocked.  I can't post the entire thing.

Oxford dictionary eradicates words associated with Christianity and British history

http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2008/12/oxford-dictionary-eradicates-words.html

Monday, December 08, 2008

Oxford dictionary eradicates words associated with Christianity and British history

Cranmer is having one of his incandescent moments, which are rare, but quite vehement when they occur. It transpires that Oxford University Press has decided to eradicate from its Junior Dictionary words associated with Christianity, the monarchy and British traditions and history.

Thus words like ‘bishop', ‘abbey', ‘chapel, ‘saint', ‘empire' and ‘coronation' have been expunged along with many which related to the countryside, like ‘moss', ‘willow', ‘fern', ‘buttercup', ‘heather', ‘sycamore' and ‘mistletoe'.

In order to make the dictionary ‘more relevant' to the town-dwelling, multi-faith, multi-cultural internet-dominated, celebrity-obsessed, and ADD-afflicted generation, words like ‘blog', ‘broadband', ‘MP3 player', ‘voicemail' and ‘celebrity' are supplanting those which may explain and educate them on their country's Christian heritage and cultural traditions.

And with supreme irony yet of immense political significance, ‘monarch' has been erased while ‘EU' enters for the first time.

It is an insidious agenda indeed which seeks to inculcate the nation's most vulnerable and impressionable minds with the supremacy of the European Union over the monarchy of the United Kingdom. While the former becomes ‘more relevant', the latter is irrelevant to the point of non-definition

Professor Alan Smithers, Director of the Centre for Education and Employment at Buckingham University, said: "We have a certain Christian narrative which has given meaning to us over the last 2,000 years. To say it is all relative and replaceable is questionable. The word selections are a very interesting reflection of the way childhood is going, moving away from our spiritual background and the natural world and towards the world that information technology creates for us."

In a nation in which 70 per cent of the population identified themselves at the last census as Christian, either by faith or culture, the eradication of so many words associated with the faith will have an undoubted detrimental effect on the children in all those primary schools who use the dictionary. Such a crucial educational tool has an obligation to be prescriptive in preserving the richness of the English language and permitting children's understanding of their heritage and the world around them.

Vineeta Gupta, is head of children's dictionaries at Oxford University Press. She wholeheartedly justifies the bowdlerisation, declaring: "When you look back at older versions of dictionaries, there were lots of examples of flowers for instance. That was because many children lived in semi-rural environments and saw the seasons. Nowadays, the environment has changed. We are also much more multicultural. People don't go to Church as often as before. Our understanding of religion is within multiculturalism, which is why some words such as ‘Pentecost' or ‘Whitsun' would have been in 20 years ago but not now."

Well, Ms Gupta, not all children are concrete-dwelling, tarmac-loitering ignoramuses. Indeed, tens of thousands not only live in rural environments, they positively embrace it, and some of those in industrial areas also yearn for it. And have you not considered that even those who live in towns may yet still observe the changing of seasons? What, pray, is more ‘multicultural' this year than last about the British state? And what proportion of the population takes its understanding of religion from this multiculturalism?

Ah, Ms Gupta, one wonders if you yourself have an agenda here.

For have you not noticed, in your observation that church attendance is declining and your strange assertion that the changing of the seasons may no longer be observed, that we still have a monarch, notwithstanding that the word has been excised from your tome?

Anonymous

There is an agenda ... I believe that there is a force trying to eradicate religion from the world seeing that most wars are religious wars ... taking words out of the dictionary is the first thing. Taking God out of the Pledge and off our money will happen, eventually.   Some say that the UN wants to get rid of religions, then people can praise the UN for bringing unity and peace to the whole world. 

hmmmmmmm

-------

tootsie pop city!

Rosemary44

When I think of all that's going on in Chicago right now.  This comes to mind:

Give 'em the old razzle dazzle
Razzle Dazzle 'em
Give 'em an act with lots of flash in it
And the reaction will be passionate
Give 'em the old hocus pocus
Bead and feather 'em
How can they see with sequins in their eyes?

What if your hinges all are rusting?
What if, in fact, you're just disgusting?

Razzle dazzle 'em
And they;ll never catch wise!

Give 'em the old Razzle Dazzle

Razzle dazzle 'em
Give 'em a show that's so splendiferous

Row after row will crow vociferous

Give 'em the old flim flam flummox
Fool and fracture 'em

HOW CAN THEY HEAR THE TRUTH ABOVE THE ROAR?

Throw 'em a fake and a finagle
They'll never know you're just a bagel,

Razzle dazzle 'em
And they'll beg you for more!

Give 'em the old double whammy
Daze and dizzy 'em
Back since the days of old Methuselah
Everyone loves the big bambooz-a-ler

Give 'em the old three ring circus
Stun and stagger 'em
When you're in trouble, go into your dance

Though you are stiffer than a girder
They'll let you get away with murder
Razzle dazzle 'em
And you've got a romance

Give 'em the old
Razzle Dazzle

Give 'em the old Razzle Dazzle
Razzle dazzle 'em
Show 'em the first rate sorceror you are
Long as you keep 'em way off balance
How can they spot you've got no talent
Razzle Dazzle 'em

Razzle Dazzle 'em
Razzle Dazzle 'em

AND THEY'LL MAKE YOU A STAR!

pinoideae

Officials approve auto aid package worth about $3.3B

Updated Fri. Dec. 12 2008 8:35 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

The federal and Ontario governments will provide a lifeline worth about $3.3 billion for the struggling Canadian auto sector, but the money won't flow until the U.S. approves its own bailout package, Industry Minister Tony Clement announced Friday.

Clement added that the funds are "contingent" upon the auto industry creating a plan for long-term viability, and he noted that the announcement is intended to send Washington a message that urgent action is necessary.

"What we're signaling here tonight ... is that we want to be part of the solution as well," Clement said in Toronto.

The fund falls short of the nearly $7-billion package which Ford, GM and Chrysler requested from Canadian leaders earlier this month.

"It is up to the automakers, with their parts suppliers and the unions, to work together on a long-term solution for their industry," said Clement.

"Governments can decide to help, but these decisions will only be made in the best interest of the tax payers."

The announcement follows a meeting Friday between Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty in Ottawa where the two leaders hashed out a plan.

Clement said that he expected the "the American administration to come forward very soon" with an aid plan, and added the fund represents 20 per cent of the proposed US$14 billion dollar package in the U.S.

That plan was shot down by the U.S. Senate on Thursday, but there was still hope Washington could deliver some aid.

On Friday, the White House said it may tap into the US$700 billion banking fund to stop the "precipitous collapse" of the auto industry.

With General Motors and Chrysler on the brink of bankruptcy, the announcement marks a sharp policy reversal for the White House, which has previously said that the bank bailout money was off limits.

"A precipitous collapse of this industry would have a severe impact on our economy, and it would be irresponsible to further weaken and destabilize our economy at this time," said White House press secretary Dana Perino on Friday.

The U.S. Senate voted down a $14 billion proposal - which had bi-partisan support from President George Bush and congressional Democrats - after the United Auto Workers refused wage cuts.

But there seemed to be some confusion about which automotive sectors in Canada would in fact get government help.

Earlier in the day, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said Ottawa is still working with the domestic industry, and he added that the defeat of the bailout in the U.S. would not hold up talks in Canada.

The announcement comes as the once-mighty Detroit automakers drift into increasingly perilous financial waters.

GM puts factories on hold

On Friday morning, General Motors confirmed that it will stop virtually all North American production in January. That would cut 250,000 vehicles from its first-quarter production schedule. In all, 21 factories across North America will be affected.

Chris Buckley, the president of the Canadian Auto Workers local 222, told CTV Newsnet that GM says the Oshawa, Ont., plant will shut down for about six weeks beginning in January. The shutdown would end in the middle of February.

But there will be some production at GM's plants in Ontario, GM spokesperson Stew Low told The Canadian Press.

"There's a lot of plants that are running at that time," Low said. "There's plants that have only part of January out of their schedule and some weeks in February and March. It's very dependant on customer demand."

At a press conference in Toronto Friday, CAW President Ken Lewenza said not all of Canada's car manufacturing plants will shut down at the same time or for a full month.

But Lewenza noted: "All of our plants -- as a result of the declining sales in the U.S. -- are facing unprecedented shutdowns."

He said all workers are facing "temporary layoffs," noting that Ottawa needs to step up and help car manufacturers.

Otherwise, he said, 300,000 or 400,000 Canadians dependent on the industry will lose their jobs.

"I believe if the Canadian government intervenes ... we can avoid this economic crisis in the auto industry," Lewenza said.

He said governments around the world are offering stimulus packages to help their economies and Canada needs to follow suit.

Meanwhile, Honda also announced on Friday that it's cutting more of its North American production due to lower demand. But the Japanese carmaker doesn't plan to layoff any of its 4,600 workers here in Canada. Honda says its plants in Alliston, Ont., will be reduced by 37,000 units by the end of March 31.

With files from The Canadian Press

---

Comments are now closed for this story

Alberta Jim

And what do you want Canadian TAXPAYERS to do. Give you all our hard earned tax dollars so the companies can continue on as they have been doing. I don't think so. Demonstrate that management and the unions actually have a plan and are willing to give up a little and maybe.

---

Sheila

Until the big 3 start to agree to some major wage cuts, benefit cuts and upper management cuts, and start to build cars that people actually want to buy, there should be no bailout. If they bail out the auto industry there will be countless other businesses knocking at the door for government handouts and the taxpayers just can't afford that.

---

Brittany

It's awful that something created here in North America can be taken over my imports..its completely unfair trade. We cannot sell some of our products in other places which is allowing imports to dominate more than one market. Its dissapointing also when people don't take the time to look at facts and recognize GM makes good cars and that they do have hybrids it's just not as known. I encourage those who think they KNOW to take a look at the GM website..see all the hybrid cars trucks and suvs and also take time to think about how not helping GM will just make the economy even worse!

---

JohnBoy

Maybe its time for the CAW workers to take the lead with a wage cut and maybe public support and financial aid will happen. Unfortunately this has to happen and better than sooner than never and still be working next year.

---

Mark

Until the unions make major wage concessions, bankruptcy may be the only option to save the industry.

---

Rob, Kitchener

Bailing out the big3 when their business models are tanking would be like pissing money down a rat-hole. That same money would better be spent on public works and infrastructural projects to employ those who lose their auto industry jobs. At least then, the country could benefit from the investment. When they emerge from bankruptcy, there will still be jobs, just fewer of them.

---

CJ in Edmonton

The union should be taking a pay cut! That sort of thing happens all of the time, but the auto industry is so flipping greedy it is beyond me!!! The auto industry should not be bailed out. They said it themselves...they built lacklustre cars, overly priced, and they are being trumped by the foreign markets.

---

Dave T

I'm sick of hearing the car-makers whine. Compete or die. If they can't hold their own, they deserve bankruptcy. Every business out there knows their fate if they can't make a profit. No reason to dump perfectly good taxpayer money into a bad company. I certainly know that if I was ever going bankrupt that the govt wouldnt be bailing me out. So why should they be able to use my tax dollars to bail out some other guy. Quit wasting my money. If there really is that much kicking around Ottawa then lower our taxes more and leave my money in my pocket so I can save my own finances rather that worrying about some Multi-billion dollar company. They made their beds. Let them sleep in them.

---

J.C.

Naturally the Cons are sitting back to see what the US is doing. What good would it do to pour money into the car companies in Canada if the US isn't?? They are connected after all. Mr. Buckley should take notice that the US deal was rejected mostly because the UAW would not make concessions. Maybe the CAW should use a little more wisdom? If the CDN government puts money into the auto sector whose to say they won't use it for the US and therefore would not do anything for Canada. The two unions need to get together and offer concessions if they want to keep their jobs. I do hope the government uses its head in this matter and does not just throw money to the Big 3. I hope the "coalition" took strong note of the US rejection since they just wanted to throw out the money!!!!

---

Gary Findlay

What strong signal do they want sent? The federal and provincial governments have been working closely together to try and address the auto situation. Last nights action in the U.S. cleary shows how ridiculous it would be for Canad to move too quickly before they know what the U.s. is going to do. Don't the people involved understand that the final decisions are made in the U.S.; not by Canadian management whether we like it or not. The U.S. management can decide to halt production in a Canadian plant even if we rush in and give them money. We must have written guarantees (U.S. guarantees).

---

Steve Searle Bowmanville Ont

We need fair trade not fee trade, Korea, Japan,will not let us sell cars in there countries, i understand that there is a huge market for our large SUV's they just keep dumping there products here. Our products are as good or better in some cases than there,s. Lets get with it Ottawa and Washington.

---

Darlene in Halifax

What exactly do they think it will accomplish if the Cdn govt throws money at the Ontario plants? If the US head offices go under, they will just take our tax dollars with them. There is no point in bailing out a branch if the US govt isn't going to bail out the head offices. Waiting to see if the US helps or not is the sensible thing to do.

---

Mad Mary

In this economy, there are alot of people out of work that would be prepared to take a wage cut as opposed to no job at all. It is time for the NA car industry to take some lessons from the others. They operate good businesses and are not asking the governmnet for money.

---

Ki-Some Victoria BC

As a union member, in British Columbia, I can say that the CAW has just gotten way out of hand. What they make in wages is just an outrage.

---

chris

Why don't our politicians and media focus on the real reason for the decline of manufacturing in north america? UNFAIR TRADE. How can anybody with our standard of living compete with third world labor. Bye bye middle class.

---

Matt

It's unfortunate that jobs are affected, but in terms of the "Big [insert comment about dinosaurs'] Three" cars, Good riddance to bad rubbish!

---

Lindsay

Here we go.....hang on...this is only the beginning. Thanks everyone who bought imports re: price, mileage, etc. etc. What were you thinking??? Now your neighbours, family members, etc. are out of work and maybe you are next.

---

John From Ottawa

Giving the big 3 bailout money is ridicules. I'd refuse to give 1 penny of my tax money to them. I hope Harper doesn't give them anything.

---

Jackie Barrett

The best option for General Motors is to file for bankruptcy so they can nullify all union contracts, start from scratch, build cars with high fuel economy to stay competitive with Honda, Toyota, or Nissan, and pay compensation and benefits comparable to Japanese Auto Makers. Food for though, I learned that an average employee at at GM, Chrysler, or Ford plant costs at least $72 an hour in benefits and wages. Its no wonder why American big three automakers are in bad shape. In the end, if GM does file for bankruptcy protection or bankruptcy, the first steps include renewing contracts and pay wages comparable to Japanese big three, build vehicles with high fuel economy to rival the Toyota Prius, and keep benefits to a minimum. Simple as that.

---

Larry Wallace

The CAW has taken an unreasonable approach to not offering to take any wage or benefit cuts, but lets not forget the suits in the Corporate office who for years have taken large salaries and huge bonus. Now is the time for them to take huge wage cuts and forego their extravagant bonuses until their respective companies are once again making a real profit and returning dividends to the investors!! If the government does bail them out, one of the conditions is the entire Board of Directors should be replaced along with the CEO's and CFO's of these companies with out benefit of ANY severance package, as this should be put back into the company to pay off creditors. This is what happens to the workers wages and serverance when a company goes bankrupt! Larry Kitchener

---

Bill

Message to the Car Companies: You created this situation by not paying attention to market trends and the overall economy. If you can't compete why should we bail you out? Darwinism in action - survival of the fitest.

---

Todd in ON

It is not the responsibility of tax dollars to support the manufacturing sector. The blame for this is squarely on the shoulders of GM and the union.

---

Tammy

And what sort of wage cut do you propose? Just a question... is it going to save the economy when the CAW workers loose their houses and their cars??? How is the autoindustry going to be saved by making it so their own employees can not afford to buy what they build... Making it so thousands of people can not afford cars is not going to save the autoindusttry!!!! Is that going to save the world if we all take jobs that pay less then $20 an hour... what kind of crisis will we have then when EVERY CAW member can not afford their houses anymore and their mortgages go into forclosure... we do not have a financial crisis now like they do in the states but take away a living wage from people that contribute to the economy and to charities and to communitees and see what state we are in then... All these fat cat business men that call themselves specialists are bringing in 6 figure incomes and they have the nerve to say that the CAW makes too much money!!!!! How dare they! They can make as much as they want but a lowly factory worker is not important enough to make a living wage and support his or her family... to live in a house that they bought working on the line... You peoples sense of justice and fairness sickens me... You would rather see everyone brought down then to fight to lift everyone up... WE NEED GOOD PAYING JOBS TO MAKE OUR ECONOMY WORK!!!!!!! HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT!!!!!

---

Lucy AB

I think we need to let them crash and burn. That's the only way they will learn their lesson, wake up and make some major modifications to the auto industry. This will be beneficial to a larger group of people besides that fat cats sitting on top.

---

Amy in Winnipeg

They Executive & The Unions won't take a wage cut? Well how about no wage at all? How is that better? the unions and the executive both need to realise THEY are the ones bancrupting this comapny. If they are so greedy, let them fail.

---

Sharon

I live in the Durham Region so I well understand the consequences to the local economy if GM closes. However the reality is that it could happen, I do agree with the other comments that the company needs to restructure and make cuts. Welcome to my reality world, my husband has been without work for a year, we have lost nearly half our retirement in the crisis of the stock market. Have we had to make changes, you bet, will we survive, hopefully. This is today's reality!!

---

gord

The unions played a huge part in the failure of these companies its them that should be bailing out the big three. Without huge wage consessions there is no way I want even one penny of my tax dollars go to these companies. At an average of over 72.00 an hour those employees are way way overpaid. The best thing we could do is let them go under then they could restructure without unions and become sustainable companies. Any money we put in now is just a bandaid and will only serve to delay the certain collapse of this industry.

---

JP in Ontario

Folks, these companies as their individual wholes, are to blame here. In another article on this site, a UoT analyst has stated that Chapter 11, Bankruptcy protection is the most likely solution for this problem with these companies. They are in need of deep and hard restructuring. Management needs to be completely replaced, and reduced. Why do they need salaries in the millions of dollars? Once this top level reorganization has been completed with the Big 3, they will need to review the budgets, reduce unnecessary spending, sell off divisions, brands, property etc. With all of this complete, if what is left is still a viable company, then they should approach the line workers, examine salaries and benefits, and work with the respective unions to bring these in line with values that will keep the company afloat, keep jobs, and at least have workers who are informed as to the reason why their union may have been asked to make concessions. None of this is currently in place however, or progressing. GM closing Oshawa operations for 6 weeks will put those staff affected in a difficult position, but likely still wont resolve the problems. These companies burn through billions of dollars in a fiscal quarter. The bailouts requested, and denied, would never have been enough to keep them solvent for more than 2 months, let alone a whole quarter. I feel for my neighbours at GM, and for their sake, I hope the company can be reshaped ok.

---

DWR

Why should the taxpayers keep companies going that can not be managed properly in the first place. If you can not survive under your own steam shut down. You want to make the companies to do better financially? Why not start at the top get rid of the private jets, Chauffer Driven Limo, hot and cold running personal assistance and the obscenely high wages, for both management and the workers etc etc... Then try really hard to make a quality vehicle that is good on gas and is affordable to the average person out there. Then perhaps you would not be in this bad position now. Just think about it.

---

GK in NB

In 2005 I bought a new Ford product. What a lemon. When i tried to communicate with Ford I got zero response and even less from the dealer. I have vowed to never enter a Ford showroom ever again. In 2007 I went back to the Japanese maker and have beem 100% satisfied asusual.

---

Jammers5

There is not much sense of Canada doing anything for the Automakers until the U.S. delivers on a package. Without the U.S. involved our money would just be thrown away - they could not survive on what Canada could contribute. Having said thay what are other automakers doing - we haven't heard anything about Toyota, Honda, Hyundai etc - are they in trouble too?

---

Ari

Mr. Union, Start from yourself first before you ask the government to bail you out with the hard earned Canadian taxpayer's money. Show that you are ready, willing and have a plan to make sacrifices in your salaries and benefits, show that the company has a plan to restructure everything and make it profitable, and then you are in line to be assessed if you deserve such help or not. Why should Canadians and for that matter the Americans pay for your extremely high salaries and benefits? Why isn't Toyota, Honda and Mazda seeking any help? Aswer these questions first, look in the mirror to find the anwer and than perheps if you satisfy the taxpayers that indeed you have learned from your mistakes you will get the help. Sorry, Mr. Union but that's the reality of real world and not that of the iceland you are isolated in.

---

BONNIE

If the union's won't make any concession's than they don't get any taxper's help. They either want their jobs or not. Let them go under they can get retrained to do something else.

---

Nancy

Where is Buzz Hargrove now???? Nice timing on retirement! By the way 14 billion dollars will do nothing, GM's debt alone is 65 billion in the US. Do not give these unions our money. If they hadn't been holding these companies hostage for so many years, perhaps bankruptcy wouldn't be inevitable.

---

Terry out West

Yes Brittany GM does have a lot of vehicles and some are good vehicles but do they need 39 different lines of vehicles and some of those, like trucks have 6 sublevels. Look at Honda for instance, they have 15 lines including Acura. Does General Motors need to make a Chevvy truck and a GMC truck that are identical other than badging. These are only some of the changes that General Motors need to make at the Corporate level before I'll agree to give them "MY", let me say that again, "MY" money either by direct purchase of one of their vehicles or my tax dollars.

---

Not to worry

Harper says the canadian economy is in good shape, his plans are green! Horses, wagons, skateboards, bikes, roller blades. The real important thing is to spend 2.4 million times 7 years for 18 of his friends. Him & his friends are much more important than anything for our economy. Oh & plugging in christmas lights. these are the real important things! Merry Christmas canada!!!

---

Kevin in Oshawa

I really wish you whiners using the "imports taking over the market" excuse. WAKE UP PEOPLE, many of the fuel efficient models GM, Chrysler and Ford offered are adaptations from JAPANESE vehicles. Example: Pontiac Vibe = Toyota Matrix. Many of you "domestic brand loyalists" seem to conveniently forget that many of these "import" branded companies have factories right here in Ontario and Canada as well as the United States. Honda and Toyota both have assembly plants and engine plants as well as other factories all across North America employing NORTH AMERICANS. Therefore, these jobs and investments HELP your so-called domestic economy. Time to wake up and smell the roses for you people who seem to conveniently forget these facts.

---

Wallygator

Oh please Mr Buckley...enough already. Not only 2 weeks ago, the CAW was insisting that they would not take any concessions to help with a recovery. Now I hear that they are willing to be "part of the solution". Vague statement in my opinion. I think we all know what the CAW means by that statement.

---

Patrick

The US deal failed thanks to the UAW not being willing to take a $3 or $4 per hour cut in pay - ARE THEY INSANE????????? If I had the choice of keeping my job and taking a small cut in pay, I'D TAKE IT. Especially if I was making the kind of money they do. Why is that unions think that the big 3 owe them the sun, moon, & stars? Get a grip on reality you greedy morons.

---

Ed . Dunchurch

GM know that bailout or no bailout thay simply cannot continue to build cars that won't sell. It has nothing to do with quality or gas consumption. The automotive dealers (all of them) across North America have more than 3 months inventory in their lots. They simply don't need any more. The automakers have even more vehicles in their lots which they cannot move. It is not just the Big 3, Honda and Toyota are cutting back on production as their sales last month were down 30+%. It would be absolute folly to continue building more vehicles. Tough as it is we had better get used to this for a while.

---

Jason

Hey....what that?...another union that wouldnt budge on wage concessions and are now out of work...Gee if i had to bend a little to keep a job i might consider it...Too bad the republican senators have this great ideal of compromise...

---

Jey from Mississauga

Sorry people. You do not understand how the system works. If both US and Canadian government do not bail out the big 3, we are going to lose the income tax. The money you are giving is not free money; remember the 1980's Chrysler bail out. So understand and put your self centered jealousy aside and even save your job in future. It's also coming on your way.

---

Scott in Victoria

Its ironic I think - would any of take a wage cut? Didn't think so. Oh yeah, by the way Alberta Jim - your government has gone to Ottawa asking for a drop in federal taxes and royalties in order to make the tar sands more viable since the price of oil has dropped. I wonder, will you whine or take it like a good Albertan and accept a wage cut when oil companies threaten to pull out?

---

KJ in Kingston Ontario

It is mind boggling that the head of the auto workers union in Canada could be surprised by the lack of enthusiastic support of a BIG 3 rescue plan. What planet are these folks on? Why do they seem to expect this. That's the question I would like to have answered... How did they get this sense of self-importance and entitlement... Hell, they work in plants and build mediocre cars to supply an over-supplied market.. They aren't making medical isotopes.

---

Scott Beckingsale

please! this has nothing to do with "unfair" trading or import rules. the "not-so-big 3" are in trouble because no one is buyer there crappy products. what ever the reason for the buyers to switching to the imports - no one NOW is interested in what they make. unions dont want to help, why should the taxpayers!! Besides - if you skewint, Buckley looks just like Hargrove. remember that GM was formed for 17 failed auto companies, 8 that had gone bankrupt. history repeats its self and without our taxpayers dollars saving the greedy....

---

Blue-neck Albertan

So, are all the Auto Workers Union leaders going without pay for those 6 weeks to support their "Brothers and Sisters"? Doubt it. After being a die-hard GM fan for over 20 years, I became tired of paying for crappy product, and switched to Toyota products in 1992 and have never looked back. These guys remind me of the poor millionaire NHL hockey players that held the country hostage for a year when they went on strike. Let me summarize this up in 3 words: Boo friggen hoo...

---

Joseph from Ottawa

People... start tightening your belts NOW!!! we are heading towards an unprecedented DEPRESSION. Yes, not a recession, but a full blown depression. I know that the bad times will not last forever, but emerging from this economic collapse will not be easy nor will it be fast. Uncontrolled capitalism has failed, and to fix it politicians have been shifting towards a socialist-semi-communist system. How in the world do you fix a failing systems with a socialist-communist system that failed as well????

---

Robert, rural Ontario

All partners in the automotive industry must streamline and make concessions before gov't give a get of debt free card. It is amazing the 3 american car makers saw a world moving toward greener and for some reason continued to make bigger and bigger cars.

---

Mark

Good, No tax $$$$ bailouts until all of these greedy unions and wayyyyy overpaid union members accept substantial pay-cuts/benefit restructuring to share the pain. If they refuse then no more jobs.

---

allan moss

the 30.00 dollar an hour auto workers are complainig, they might lose there jobs, I find it hard to feel sorry for them, they refuse to give in to wage decreases, to try and help the situation, oh well those of us making 10.00 an hour really feel for you NOT!!!

---

Herb

Regardless, we will see thousands upon thousands of people without a job. The ineptitude of the Harper gov't means that these people will not have the assistance they will require. You can make pissy, self-satisfied statements all you want, but this will cascade and devastate the entire country. Lee in Calgary That stats are pretty clear, last year 2007, GM and Toyota sold almost the exact same number of vehicles yet GM is almost bankrupt while Toyota just opened a new plant in Ontario creating 1200 jobs. I can't speak with knowledge about the fully loaded rates in Canada but the US numbers are clear and devestating. The fully loaded labour cost per hour for GM was roughly $72 USD while Toyota's number was roughly $42 USD. I'm no Bill Gates but it's pretty clear that in this case the product isn't the issue, if your labour cost is $30 USD per hour higher per employee you're not going to be able to compete period. I'm sure smarter people will talk about other industry issues such as government tax breaks, dealership issues and such but until the so called big 3 can get their labour costs closer to those of Honda and Toyota we are throwing good money after bad. Last night the Senate republicans demanded that the UAW agree to wage and benefit cuts as a condition of receiving taxpayers money as well as putting restriction on the companies. The union rejected any cuts out of hand and the bill was promptly defeated. Two weeks ago I watched as a CAW rep during a TV interview did the same thing, rejecting any efforts to renegotate labour costs as a condition of receiving taxpayer funds. Is this the Edmonton meatpackers deal all over again whereby the union refused to negotiate and lost all their jobs as the plant was moved to Brandon MB. This take it or leave it approach by the unions must be rejected if taxpayer funds are involved. If we are to support an industry it must be a viable industry otherwise our dollars are better spent in other areas.

pinoideae

I hope I didn't copy too many comments.  There were so many more.

Anonymous

CHICAGO – President-elect Barack Obama has asked if his family can move into Blair HouseWhite House a little early, but the Bush administration has said, "Sorry." near the

The Obamas had asked White House officials to move into the historic house across Pennsylvania Avenue about two weeks earlier than is usual so their two daughters could start school with their new classmates on Jan. 5. Obama aides say the White House told them the request could not be met because the current administration still had plans for the government home.

Obama aides say they understand the complex White House schedules and say the Bushes have been very helpful.

A White House spokeswoman says Blair House is available on Jan. 15.

According to normal protocol ..... Blair House is made available to the PE on the 15th .. 5 days before inauguration .. so there is no snubbing, it's just protocol and previous engagements.

Anonymous

Sidwell is a private Quaker school with a campus in northwest Washington for grades 5-12 and another in suburban Bethesda, Md., for kindergarten through fourth grade. Malia is in fifth grade and Sasha is in second grade.

Al Gore III, the son of former Vice President Al Gore, attended Sidwell. Vice President-elect Joe Biden's grandchildren also attend the school.

President Nixon was a Quaker .........  This also is the school that Chelsea attended.

It's kinda funny that these Presidents and their families can be pretty conservative when it comes to religion and education but their constituents are polar opposites ..... Quakers are very restrictive!

vivre

Summer, Thanks for sharing your canadian perspective. It seems the Canadian people have the same opinion as most Americans-no bailout without concessions. Now if our governments could only get the message. Obama wants to allow the dems to unionize the whole country. We will have more bankruptcies coming if that happens. Companies should take care of their employees, but putting employees in the hands of union bosses, who only want political power is not the answer. This union thing is how the Chicago machine stays in business. The union bosses use their underlings to get political sway and vice versa. The country will end up where Chicago is now-in the political sewer. Other cities will fall the way detoit has.

Rosemary44

The bottom line here is we aren't buying cars.  I don't see how that is going to change much in the next 3 months.  That $14 Billion is just stall money till the inevitable has to happen.  Thus the $14 bil is lost and they go into bankruptcy anyway.  Or, we keep feeding them more money.  None of this fixes the basic problem.

So give us vouchers for a new car.  That fixes the problem.  The government still doesn't get their money back which they won't anyway, but the car companies stay in business and we get something out of it.  My vouchers would only go to people who earn 200K and below, above the age of 18-80. 

The gov't pays the car companies as the vouchers come in, they don't have to give all the money up front, and it will take years to fulfill all the vouchers, and they have time to make the necessary changes to their companies, fire the CEO of Chrysler, renegotiate the union contracts, no golden parachutes to company CEO's, reduce product lines.  It will be called business unusual.   

So what's the problem with the above scenario? 

Anonymous

Rosemary, my dad is 87 and still drives...no new car for him?  That doesn't seem fair.

Rosemary44

Pat,

I didn't put a cap on my voucher.  Say $30k, so you buy 2 small cars.  One for him.  Oh, ok 18-90.