Natural Healing

Hi Genesis, I am 9 years post treatment, and doing just fine. I am aware of quite a few women who have tried natural methods and died. I don't mean to make light of anyone's approach to this disease, but be careful. The treatment does sometimes look like we are hitting a mosquito with a sledge hammer, but many, many women are alive today who would have died just a few years ago without the accepted treatments, miserable as they are.



If and when a "cure" comes along, don't worry, it will be shouted from the housetops. But you need to be careful who you counsel. Some people never even had cancer, they were "cured", some were cured because they did not need the stronger treatments, and some are cured "in spite of, not because of" natural means.



There is not a big conspiracy to kill us with treatment, or make money. Doctors and surgeons have cried with me. I know how they feel. They are as eager as any of us to end this disease. But you also must know that breast cancer is probably at least 50 separate diseases, I had one, Medullary, which is a small sub-type that only 5% of breast cancers are. So to imply that any "single" treatment will cure everyone is irresponsible.



We worry about our "newbies" and don't want them looking for an easy way out of this. Only natural, but potentially dangerous.



Don't mean to be unkind, but this is the truth.



Shirlann

Genesis and Husband,

I admit that when I first saw your post, I was a bit concerned.  I didn't reply at that time because I felt that Dotti and Shirlann's replies were excellent.  I suspect that most of us "old timers" on this board probably feel much as Dotti and Shirlann do.  And I suspect that most "newbies" who come here look to get advice about the treatments that their doctors will be prescribing; most don't come here looking to be sent away to view 12 videos on an alternate treatment. 

While I didn't respond initially, I am responding now because my discomfort is much stronger now, after seeing your responses to Dotti and Shirlann.   I am concerned about some of what you've said, and I am concerned about the level of defensiveness that I see in your replies.  Those of us who've been here a while have acquired a sort of radar that identifies those who may not be here for the right reasons.  I hope that's not the case with you; I hope that your interest is genuinely in helping those who've been diagnosed with breast cancer but your defensiveness suggests otherwise.

And, as I said, some of your comments are concerning. For example:

"Natural healing responsibility is a change in life style.  You have to stop doing what made you ill."  This sounds like a "blame the victim" mentality.  The women here did not cause their breast cancer.  There are many factors that go into why one might have been diagnosed with breast cancer, some genetic, some environmental, some lifestyle.  While lifestyle factors may play a role in some cancers, no respected authority believes that the majority of breast cancer is caused by lifestyle choices.  And what do you say to the women here - and there are many of them - who did everything right and yet still got BC?  And how does the program you're promoting address those who have breast cancer as a result of the BRCA genetic mutation? 

"We will remind you that 40,000 women die each year from breast cancer through traditional treatment."  Thank you for the scare tactics.  The more important question is, what % of women diagnosed with breast cancer and who go through traditional treatment, die from their breast cancer?  How does this compare to the % of women diagnosed with breast cancer who forgo traditional treatment and then die from their breast cancer?  While the number of women who forgo traditional treatment is likely very small, I have no doubt that the % who die is very high.  That's the more important point for newly diagnosed women to understand.

"you think your disease is unique or different. IT ISN'T"  Sorry, but as both Dotti and Shirlann have said, the fact is that there are many different types of breast cancer, and each individual case is unique.  To suggest otherwise is simply factually wrong.  I understand that the point you are making is that all disease stems from a breakdown in our immune systems, but that is a frightenly simplistic approach to curing cancer.  

"This goes further than Genesis's breast cancer healing.  Just ONE of the ailments that my husband experienced was the healing of an arthritic knee."  Great!  The all purpose cure. That's just what I want when I'm diagnosed with cancer.  (By the way, who is writing, Genesis or Genesis' husband?  You seem confused.)

"The board to discuss this health program is a matter of opinion"  Actually, no it's not.  The moderators of this board set up the Alternative, Complementary and Holistic Treatment forum specifically so that there would be a place, away from the general board, where those of like mind could discuss these matters. 

Genesis, I am sincerely happy if you in fact had Stage IV breast cancer and how are fully cured.  That is wonderful.  But if that's true, I suspect you are the lucky one in a million who was able to cure cancer by non-conventional means.  I hope that you continue to go well, but I urge all those who are newly diagnosed to stick with the tried and true.  There are many long-term survivors on this board, and we used traditional treatment.

Tender, just saw your post too.  I couldn't agree more!!

Dearest Genesis, I have a dear friend whose best friend decided to go with natural healing after being diagnosed with bilateral breast cancer.She actually did pretty well the first two years. It has been five years since diagnosis, but she has had a miserable time of it. She is dying now. It has been because of her strong faith and not the natural healing techniques that have kept her alive. She went on tamoxofen last year, just to slow things down a bit. She finally agreed to that, because she was scared. She has two children. If she would have had traditional treatment, she would not be in the situation that she is in. I will pray for you. Please if you have any more symptoms that arise, please get real medical help. Kathy Prihode

Genesis, move it. Several have already pointed out that there's a board further down for these discussions. Anyone legitimately interested in alternative therapies for healing, rather than for their own personal gain, would cheerfully move on to the board provided for that purpose. So do prove your legitimate interest to us by not posting another word on this thread or anywhere else on this "Just Diagnosed" board. Otherwise, we'll have to assume you're merely argumentative and self-serving. And we don't want to think that about anyone!

Next move is yours. 

Thanks,

Binney 

genesis, I don't find your words credible.  And it's not because I choose not to have faith in alternative cures.  I want very much for alternative treatments to be effective.  I WANT to believe your claims.  I wish your claims contained enough documented success stories to become the  new gold standard of care. 

No, it's not the claims of being cured by some some alternative medicine treatment that make your word disingenuous to me.  It's the way you chastise posters here against making generalizations after your own sweeping statement "You have to stop doing what made you ill."  Gee, I must've slept through the nightly news tonight.  I didn't know anyone had pinpointed so precisely what causes cancer and why some people get it and others don't.  I find it disingenuous anytime someone objects to generalizations made by others and then makes their own in practically the same breath. 

I suppose it's possible that you lurked here prior to posting, but I am more inclined to believe that you didn't and that you are speaking to a whole lot of people whom you don't know.  I say that because the people I feel like I've come to know through this message board do take responsibility for their own health, and it's quite a sweeping generalization for you to assume that we don't.  

Genesis, I am very glad that you are responding well to the treatment that you have chosen.  I sincerely hope that you will continue to get better and are, indeed, cured. 

After reviewing "Dr. Richard Schulze's Official Website" I do have several questions and concerns:

1.  What is Dr Schulze's educational background?   I found no credentials noted in the biography.  What medical school did he graduate from?  Or is his Doctoral degree in another field? The website notes: "So I trained to be a Medical Herbalist and Natural Doctor, and interned and apprenticed day and night with the best natural doctors and herbalists of the past century".  Who, exactly, did he apprentice to?  In what state is he licensed as a Naturopathic Doctor?  I cannot find "Medical Herbalist" as a recognized designation. 

2.  Nowhere in the website did I find a description of what the treatment consists of.  Is it herbal remedies?  Mind-body work? What, exactly, would I be buying from this person?

3.  I saw no references to medical research on the website.  While this fact alone does not discredit a treatment in my mind, it does raise questions when I cannot figure out what "treatment" is being sold.

Finally, genesis, what is your connection with this site and treatment?  Are you taking the treatment and sharing your results or are you financially connected to Dr. Schulze?  Who directed you to Dr. Schulze's program? 

As someone said in an earlier post, I want to believe.  I have suffered from conventional treatment, but conventional treatment has clear information readily available (what it is, how it works, statistics on effectiveness and side effect rates, scientific basis).  I use complementary therapies in additions, therapies with as much information readily available and at least some research.  If this treatment is as good as you present, there must be reports, statisitics, something to show, besides testimonials that can be purchased. 

Kathy, You have no way of knowing if your friend's friend would be where she is today had she subscribed to traditional treatments.  There are many who do everything that traditional medicine offers and their cancer still metastasizes. I personally know several women who had a very good prognosis and did everything modern medicine had and are where your friend's friend is now....or worse. The only difference is that if you do traditional medicine and get mets, then people have sympathy for you.  If you do alternatives and get mets, then everyone thinks you are an idiot.  That point of view offends me especially on an alternative board where we should be able to discuss this without criticism.  None of us have a crystal ball, unfortunately and as many of us have said from time to time, 'it's a crap shoot'.  Best wishes!

"The only difference is that if you do traditional medicine and get mets, then people have sympathy for you. If you do alternatives and get mets, then everyone thinks you are an idiot. That point of view offends me especially on an alternative board where we should be able to discuss this without criticism. "

rubytuesday, I thought you put this very well. I would put myself in the complementary medicine camp over the alternative medicine group. One basic tenet for me is that I add to my conventional therapy with things like exercise, sun exposure, supplements and diet changes that have some basis in scientific testing. The data may be sparse, but I try to collect as much information on a complementary therapy as possible. My regimen is not static, but evolving as new studies and more data comes out.

For anyone choosing to use alternative medicine entirely, I would say that there really isn't going to be any quality data available on the efficacy of the treatment. (Quality data would include the use of scientific method, definition of all test parameters, accurate measurement of those parameters, and a control group.) At this time in the US, it would be hard, if not impossible, to set up a clinical trial for which one group is not given any of the standard medical treatments even if the participants agreed to such a treatment in writing. The most inflammatory example I can think of is the Tuskegee trial in which black men were infected with syphilis. And none of them were given the standard treatment. This is generally reviled as an unacceptable experimental procedure. 

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html 

When new clinical trials are opened, the experimenters are first required to offer some preliminary data based on test results showing that the experimental treatment is likely to have benefit. Then the potential new therapy may or may not be allowed to be tested against the standard treatment depending on the strength of the evidence.  

One could argue that no one will fund promising complementary or potential alternative therapies, but the National Cancer Institute has created & funded a division that is developing data on various treatments that are not drugs and therefore not funded by pharmaceutical companies. They are doing this to try to find those things that may be effective but lack patentability and also to try to weed out the 'therapies' that do harm and provide little or no benefit.

It is a slow process, but they are trying to take faith & belief out of the equation and replace it with data.

From my perspective, I would say that I would caution anyone to consider carefully if they were to choose, as sole treatment, a therapy based on annectodal evidence. Many women diagnosed with early bc will not die from bc. If one of these women chooses an undocumented therapy and does not progress to mets, it doesn't necessarily mean it was a successful treatment. To be fair, someone who progresses on that same treatment, might have had the same outcome with standard treatments. The problem is, no one has any real way of knowing unless the method is tested using control groups and accurate measurement of the variables.

The discussions on this board have always seemed to me to be based on critical thinking skills over simply criticism. I see it as a good thing that new ideas are questioned and analyzed to best of our abilities. It is not to offend, but to protect. Both ourselves and others who read our posts.

I will try to use Hope as much as I can in living my life, but I want Science in lieu of Faith in picking my treatments. 

Kathy, You have no way of knowing that the outcome wouldn't have been the same.  As I said before, I know several women who had a GREAT prognosis and did all that traditional medicine had to offer and now are fighting the fight or no longer with us.  This is a SUCK---$$ disease with no guarantees.  Best wishes