Rant away about COVID, the vaccine, etc.
Comments
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Mild media rant:
So, I saw a Newsweek headline that “6 vaccinated patients die of covid in Florida” and while nothing is perfect and the vaccine appears to be safe and effective for most people, this wasn’t supposed to happen. I recall being told that the vaccinated, if infected would possibly have a mild case, no hospital, no death but that isn’t true. We are still learning, the virus is evolving and for some, the unknowns are enough to want to cautiously watch and wait.
Also, in the local news this morning a doctor was specifically asked how the effectiveness/protection compares in those who’ve had covid, recovered and have antibodies vs those who’ve received the vaccines. I wonder myself, so I listened carefully but unfortunately the doctor avoided any real information and quoted the CDC guidelines instead. I don’t want the usual script, I would like real answers. If there’s not enough data to reach a conclusion, just say so.
I this whole “ask no questions and just get the shot” thing irks me.
Regardless of views on vaccinations now, maybe later or never has anyone else noticed that mainstream media is so pro vaccine that even reasonable questions are being avoided?
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Here is a better link: https://c19ivermectin.com/
I will not be following this thread further. I am going to focus on my cancer treatment.
FLCCC (flccc.net) protocols translated into every language: https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols...
Global adoption status: https://ivmstatus.com/
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Speaking of excess mortality, especially in the first half of 2020 I suspect a significant number comes from underreported COVID deaths at nursing homes.
I had a personal experience in April 2020 when my 97 year old mother ended up in short term rehab for non COVID related illness. She was on the path to recovery and then suddenly got much worse. No COVID tests were done because it was useless when they alerted me. COVID was not mentioned on her death certificate. I had her case reviewed and they said she most likely contracted COVID that was rampant at that facility. But it’s not on her death certificate.
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Esther,
Merck, the manufacturer of Ivermectin is telling people point blank not to take it. Wouldn’t they, greedy big pharma, be shouting this from the roof tops and profiting off of it if it truly was an effective tax?
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illimae,
This is not from Newsweek so it may not be what you are referring to. I don’t believe that anyone has ever claimed that not a single person would have an adverse reaction to the vaccine, including death. However, if you are vaccinated the odds are very much in favor of milder illness and survival. The odds of a serious adverse effect are very low, but not zero as one would expect.
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Regeneron is available free in the US and effective. It's not just for Presidents and state governors. There's no need for alt meds, off label meds, untrialed / not fully trialed drug cocktails, etc. if treatment or prophylaxis is needed.
I just saw this article in another group -
“Monoclonal antibodies are free and effective against covid-19, but few people are getting them"
WaPo is paywalled so here's some quotes -
“The drugs often prevent severe disease, keeping people like Mike Burton out of the hospital if taken within seven to 10 days after symptoms begin. And since last month, they can be given prophylactically to millions of people like Linda Burton who have been exposed to the coronavirus and are at high risk of serious consequences.“
“Monoclonal antibodies are free to patients and there have been almost no side effects. They are accessible on an outpatient basis, via a single infusion or four injections. Hospitals, urgent-care centers and even private doctors are authorized to dispense them.
But Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, maker of the only authorized, free monoclonal antibodies, said it is reaching fewer than 30 percent of eligible patients, up from fewer than 5 percent a month ago.“ -
“Love your neighbor as yourself” - isn’t it one of the main Christian commandments?
I wonder why the Church is not at the forefront of the vaccination campaign.Wouldn’t vaccination be the first thing to do for the love of the neighbor? Have I missed it because I am not religious? -
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illimae - When the virus changes, we get new data and the recommendations change. Science is a data-driven process.
Local news had a doctor who recommends following the CDC guidelines? Maybe the local doctor isn't an infectious disease expert?
If you have questions, your hospital has people who will answer them. I had many more questions before getting my second dose.
MSM pro-vaccine? Not always. My first post on this thread was prompted by a BBC headline that a New Zealand woman died after the COVID vaccine. You had to click through to learn that it was the first death in 3 million doses administered with 1 in 133 deaths from COVID itself. The headline is scary, but the vaccines have been remarkable, not perfect.
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And more info on the efficacy, or lack there of, of Ivermectin. I don't mean to suggest that further research should not be done but please rely on what is currently known. Merck would be jumping for joy and doing cartwheels if they felt, based on what is now known, Ivermectin worked, but notice, they are not and they are specifically warning against it!
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Read what AMG2 wrote about the mRNA vaccines.
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Thank you, Olma. So the Pope waited till August 18th. What about the US Churches? Are they debating what “Love your neighbor as yourself" means during the pandemic?
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moth: as someone who would have made a wonderful nurse had it not been for MBC, you know the older you get the less robust your immune system is. I think that is also what you were saying. A vaccine is never as fully effective on an old fart like me as it is on say a 20-year old. Boosters will be necessary. Like the annual flu shot. I am not putting all my faith in the Pfizer vaccine. I still wear a mask and practice social distancing. Okay - I might carry he virus in my nose. It never made it to my lungs to make me sick but I could sneeze and infect an unvaccinated person. I wear my masks for others . It is the civically, socially responsible thing to do. In Asia people who feel unwell but have to go out wear masks. They were doing that long before Covid-19.
muska: I can't remember the state (Mississippi, Missouri...?) where the Governor stated his state's population weren't afraid of Covid because they believe in "Eternal Life" I think a tiny portion in my brain exploded. Okay - believe in Heaven if you wish but do you want to go at age 30 or at age 85?
I am staggered that people don't want "poison" from the vaccine to be put in their bodies but they will take a parasite medication to cure a VIRAL infection. It is dewormer,. The corona is a virus NOT A WORM. I weigh 120 lbs, roughly, and I would take an apple flavoured paste meant for animal that can weight up to 1,000 lbs, sometimes more? Not hardly. Yes, ivermectin is used on humans, in very low doses for parasitical infections in places where worms in human intestines flourish.
The trick with monoclonal antibody treatment is that it has to be used early on. Human tendency is to say "I feel lousy but I'll wait and see if I feel better, if I don't then I'll talk to my doctor about monoclonals" By then, it could be too late.
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muska,
Not being tuned in to the church/Christian world, I thought I’d comment on a non-Christian religion. As many of you know, Israel has been a leader in vaccine research and has strongly pushed all citizens to be vaccinated. Like many religions, the most orthodox practitioners are often the most skeptical about the modern world and science. For those not familiar with Judaism the words Hasidim, Haredi, or ultra-Orthodox denote people whose practice is far more conservative than most Jews in the modern world and they are a minority within Judaism. Brei Brak is a very orthodox area.Here is how Israel convinced their Haredi population to get vaccinated.
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Muska - I can't speak for any of the many non-Catholic Christian denominations in the US and what they might tell their congregations. But the messaging I recall from the US Catholic bishops when the vaccines were first rolled out is - pro-life people who had concerns about fetal cell lines being used to develop the vaccines should not worry and should go ahead and get the vaccine because any research using fetal cell lines was tangential to the actual development of the vaccines. I don't think that Catholics could get religious exemptions then and definitely won't now. since the Pope has spoken.
exbrnxgrl- very sad story about the death of thepregnant mother -
About US Churches....I have read debate elsewhere online and apparently the argument being made (one can debate whether the argument is sincere or not...) is the issue of aborted fetal cells in vaccine development. To be clear: I have no idea of the validity of this nor do I particularly care (I am absolutely pro-vaccine, fetal cells or not), but this is an argument I have seen from very religious people who are against the vaccine.
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So basically there appears to be more love for the presumably “aborted” fetal cells (fiction)than for the millions of living and breathing neighbors.
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Muska, but isn't that often the case of many who are very conservative - pro-life when it comes to the unborn, but not very pro-life when it comes to providing the social safety nets needed to sustain the lives of those who already exist in the world?
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So much! So much!
Beesie, thank you for the charts. I do not doubt there have been excess deaths. I would want to understand better what caused those deaths and the demographics. I would want to understand how those deaths converted to life years lost. It might have been included somewhere but I missed it. I think those excess deaths are being blamed on the Unwashed as if 100% they can be traced back to quacks not vaccinating. At this point a large number of those deaths might be deaths of despair. And as you say missed treatments or diagnosis by people staying home worried that they would burden a hospital. It is equally as likely that the mismanagement of this whole pandemic is to blame. Those charts are like cakes, as an end result they hide the many ingredients that went into them. The harms of lockdowns are coming to light, although our govt, run by an ass, would never have the humility to admit such a thing. There is much yet to be sussed out in those charts and I do not see them as a conclusion that draws a straight line to 'the entire world must be vaccinated'. Like I have said over and over, I am NOT anti-vax.
I think EXBRNX girl made an extremely relevant comment about being risk averse. Bang on! If people took a moment to be honest about the risks they blandly accept every day, they would discover that they are not risk averse at all. To live a relatively normal life, you have to get in bed with ALL KINDS of risk. Everyone shouting that Safety First should be forced on everyone are people who themselves have turned a blind eye to the fact that everyday they make deliberate choices that make them unsafe! It is (to me) the height of staggering hypocrisy to get in your car and drive anywhere, or get on a plane (they fall out of the sky for pete's sake!) or take a drink of alcohol which acts as a poison in the human body, the howl about covid putting everyone at risk. We are filthy with risk but ignorance to that truth makes it easy to shine the light if virtue when you decide that covid risk is the ONE risk that is too BIG for you to risk. So my question has been and still is, compared to all the other risks I take every day, compared to all the other things that are likely to kill me or possibly could kill me, where does covid stack up? This question gets to the heart of the matter for me. I am still not certain of the answer! It could go either way. I'm still watching and listening. But where my line is drawn hard is that MY idea of my risk tolerance never, ever, ever allows me to run over the my neighbour and steal something from him or harm him to sooth my panic. I do not get to be a tyrant over my personal urgency. Maybe some people reading my posts do not know that in our province vax passports will shortly be required. This is, to my way of seeing the world, a massive shit eating move by our governments and a direct violation of what Canada holds sacred.
Story. In our town there used to be a large concrete planter outside a bank. The natives used to sit there and talk and do whatever. It was their spot. One day there were sharp boards placed on the planter. No one could sit there anymore. I thought, what the actual fuck! Because it was a vicious move deliberately aimed at the natives. Prejudice. Discrimination. Targeted hostility. I went straight to a buddy who is on town council and said, what the hell is this city thinking! That is offensive as hell! He said, well the natives litter and they intimidate other citizens...... Intimidate? There has not been one single case of assault EVER by any of those people sitting in the shade on the planter. None. Ever. Just because someone FEELS intimidated does not actually mean they are! The presence of a native as you walk by does not mean you will be beaten and raped. Our town council acted as if that was a known fact. This is how I see people reacting to the covid issue. It is something that 'might' kill them. Might. Is your risk assessment correct? Is it true? Could the natives be handled differently? Could covid? We know some people are at risk of covid and have provided a vaccine. I am angry over singling out one segment of our town population and criminalizing them for something that they are not guilty of, merely suspected of, and then acting against them in an unforgivable manner. I am enraged that I am surrounded by people who are more than happy to discriminate, segregate, condemn and step on someone else in their rush to feel safe.
Past that I can't keep all the rocks being thrown at me straight in my head, I apologize. I would need to take notes! -
runor,
I can't quite find it, because I don't remember which thread it was on, but someone posted info about everyday risks that people readily accept. The gist of it is that not all risk is equal in the human mind even if stats show that some things, like driving a car, carry greater risks than other activities we perceive to be risky but actually aren't. It is not hypocritical and for as much as I am a fact driven person, I acknowledge that for me and for most humans, there are certain risks we are willing to take even if we know the stats might not support our decision. I would say driving a car everyday is a prime example. I never hesitate to get in my car and drive somewhere. I do hesitate to put myself into large crowds or eat inside a restaurant. Hypocrisy? Nah, just a quirk of human nature and I'm ok with that.
PS: If someone knows where that post is or if you were the op, can you please post the link again? Thank
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There is NYT article on the risks... it's paywalled if you've used up your free articles for the month but there's a copy on the Wayback Machine https://web.archive.org/web/20210522210400/https
/www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/well/live/putting-the-r...The article talks about "micromorts"
"The average American endures about one micromort of risk per day, or one in a million chance of dying, from nonnatural causes, such as being electrocuted, dying in a car wreck or being struck by an asteroid (the list is long)."
"an individual living in New York City has experienced roughly 50 additional micromorts of risk per day because of Covid-19. That means you were roughly twice as likely to die as you would have been if you were serving in the U.S. armed forces in Afghanistan throughout 2010, a particularly deadly year."
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runor — you are absolutely correct that everyone assess their risks and decide accordingly for their own personal safety. But again — the point I and several others keep trying to make is that it's not just about you and your risk. Your choice directly affects the people around you — from your loved ones to the people you casually interacts with. To make a similar comparison to yours — you are assuming risk for yourself when you drink alcohol, but if you are drinking and driving you are threatening other people's lives with your choices. And that is a key difference.
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If you're not in active treatment, your risk is probably a lot lower. But the risk to others persists - to those in active treatment, those who have received organ transplants, those with immune diseases, those too young to be immunized, those who are elderly.
So why not take the step to protect others?
Communities are supposed to take care of each other. That's the premise of a community - we take all sorts of steps and accept limitations to make the community work, and for the public good. This is one of those times when people need to pull together to make life safer for everyone in the community.
I only wish BC had implemented the vaccine passport faster... and made it a broader roll out (right now they're missing post-secondary except for students living in residence which in BC is a minority of students as on campus living is nowhere near as common as it is in the US)
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Runor, I actually checked the "sources" you listed in the Steam Room. They range from conspiracy theorists to comics to artificial intelligence researchers (wtf) to a "doctor" who trains nurses but doesn't seem to have anything to do with virology or epidemiology and may just have a PhD rather than an MD, to right wing nutjobs like Joe 🤮🤮🤮 Rogan. Seriously? You may love to use words, but all I see is a mask (ha!) for a lack of facts and, frankly, any credibility.
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Minimizing a pandemic is shameful. It is not just disagrreable but harmful. I realize some people will just follow the conspiracies because they are not very bright but well thought out ignoring a planet widehealth threat is unforgivable in my view.
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Exbrnxgrl and serenitystat, a big part of hesitation is what you all have stated too, if I recall, which is that this is science and data driven. I agree, some of us just haven’t reached the comfort level others have. Personally, I think that’s fine, so long as you are not potentially harming others with risky social behavior.
Also, here’s one of the earlier quotes I referred to. This is just an example, I DO NOT get medical advice from presidents past or present.
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Illimae who are you getting advice from? Just curious but NOMB
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illimae,
I highly doubt Biden came up with at statement on his own. He is not a medical expert and relies on those on his team who are to advise him. That aside, yes, that statement was indeed made and at the time, thought to be true. It still is in the vast majority of cases, but as any scientist worth his salt knows, science is not immutable and should never be as more is learned.So yes, that statement should now include a qualifier but overall those who are vaccinated are hospitalized and die at much lower rates than the unvaccinated.
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Again, chiming in to make sure that this topic does NOT attack individual members. Please feel free to state your opinions, but we do not allow members to be called out, as it is against our guidelines. Such posts will be deleted immediately.Thank you.
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