What do you use to lower cholesterol without statins?

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  • sgreenarch
    sgreenarch Member Posts: 528
    edited January 2014

    This may not be the right place to post since this is the place that we're all trying to think of ways to avoid taking statins. After reading up on all the latest research (Nov 2013) citing the possible link between bc and high cholesterol, and since I've been unsuccessful with the most common natural ways to lower cholesterol, I decided to bite the yucky bullet, and start the statins. I started simivastin at 10mg (low dose.) Within two days I had unbearable muscle aches. I took them for 5 days and then stopped, and the pain almost went away completely. I also had tingling in my hands and severe constipation. All in all lots of fun. The insert says to stop in case of the severe muscle pain, so I did, and am going to speak to GP this week. I was just getting past the year mark on femara, and the joint pain had been lessening. Any feedback would be welcome. Thanks!

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  • zogo
    zogo Member Posts: 20,329
    edited January 2014

    sgreenarch, you are definitely allergic to statins! Have you tried niacin?

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  • MelissaDallas
    MelissaDallas Member Posts: 7,268
    edited January 2014

    Zogo, this is not an ALLERGY. It is a side effect.

    What are statin side effects?

    Muscle pain and damageThe most common statin side effect is muscle pain. You may feel this pain as a soreness, tiredness or weakness in your muscles. The pain can be a mild discomfort, or it can be severe enough to make your daily activities difficult. For example, you might find climbing stairs or walking to be uncomfortable or tiring.

    Very rarely, statins can cause life-threatening muscle damage called rhabdomyolysis (rab-doe-mi-OL-ih-sis). Rhabdomyolysis can cause severe muscle pain, liver damage, kidney failure and death. Rhabdomyolysis can occur when you take statins in combination with certain drugs or if you take a high dose of statins.

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  • cp418
    cp418 Member Posts: 7,079
    edited January 2014

    Simivastin is a lipophilic statin and was used in many studies for cholesterol lowering.  The other type of statins are hydrophilic (pravastatin) and may be not as strong with less muscle pain side effects.  I know someone who tried 3 different statins and could not take them due to the side effects. 

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  • voraciousreader
    voraciousreader Member Posts: 7,496
    edited January 2014

    The DH gets rhabdo due to a genetic metabolic muscular dystrophy.  He also needs to take a statin due to cardiac bypass....


    If you MUST take a statin, get a baseline of your skeletal "ck" levels:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine_kinase


    Our cardiologist recommends beginning with the lowest strength statin and starting it two or three times a week to see if one develops muscle pain.  If you can tolerate it, then you take it 7 days a week and then in 6 months, have your cholesterol numbers and "ck" numbers checked again.  If the cholesterol numbers do not budge, or do not go down much, then you can take a stronger statin, beginning with taking it two or three times a week and then continuing to take it 7 days a week as long as there are no symptoms.


    It's not unusual to be on a statin for YEARS, and then develop "issues."  The bottom line is once you begin taking a statin, you need to be monitored carefully, especially if you have muscle pain.....and ALWAYS check your "ck" levels while taking a statin.


    BTW....when the DH gets rhabdo...his CK levels can climb into the 10,000-20,000 range.  Thankfully, he's never suffered kidney damage.....

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  • zogo
    zogo Member Posts: 20,329
    edited January 2014

    I totally agree, Melissa. But, they have statins marked down as an allergy for my mother on her charts so she will never get them again!

    I sure hope anyone who is taking a statin is also taking CoQ10 and vitamin D. It is crucial.

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  • MelissaDallas
    MelissaDallas Member Posts: 7,268
    edited January 2014

    i get anaphylactic allergy reactions and this is a pet peeve of mine and it minimizes the seriousness of allergies, which some people can die from.

    I hear people saying that they are "allergic" to something that makes them fart. No. This is a food intolerance.

    It is foolish to list a side effect as an allergy in a medical record too.

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  • althea
    althea Member Posts: 1,595
    edited January 2014

    sgreenarch, before succumbing to the statins, have you investigated how well your thyroid is functioning?  I don't know how things are in Israel, but in the US, it's very difficult to find a MD worth a copay when it comes to thyroid health.  

    Fortunately, in this day and age of the internet, I can order my own labs.  Before I knew that, however, I was stuck with doctors who gauged my thyroid health by TSH levels alone.  Later, I learned that low thyroid function symptoms include:  high cholesterol, difficulty losing weight, disappearing eyebrows, low body temperature, fatigue, just to mention a few.  And even though I clocked in with a 6.4 TSH, outside the normal range, I was told to lose weight by following a low fat diet.  Well, hello, do these people really not know that difficulty losing weight is a low thyroid symptom?  Apparently.  

    I also learned later, on my own through persistent diligence, that the TSH normal range was redefined in 2001.  The top of the range was changed from 4.5 to 3.5.  Furthermore, most people feel their best when TSH is at 1.0.  When I brought this to the attention of my MD in 2008, it fell on deaf ears.  My request for more extensive testing was denied. 

    Even later, I learned that a proper thyroid panel includes TSH, free T3, free T4.  The free's should be in the upper third of the range for optimal levels.  Further testing includes antibodies, TPO and .... .... have to look up the other one.  Also, reverse T3 is a test to run if all others look fine and you still feel like &%!#.  

    It would be really nice if I could just depend on my doctor to know all this.  I complained of fatigue literally for years at my doctor visits before I gave up on them.  I can only surmise that thyroid health gets little coverage in medical school. 

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  • sgreenarch
    sgreenarch Member Posts: 528
    edited January 2014

    Thanks for responses. Althea, I actually have all of the low thyroid symptoms you are describing but my very sweet but highly passive GP says my TSH was fine and the discussion ended there. I can't imagine even going further on this with him, though I will try to insist on further thyroid tests. He is very cooperative and hardly argues with me about anything, so perhaps I'll just read up on what I need and ask him to prescribe the tests. OY. Sorry to bother you, but if you could look up the tests, I'll ask him. (I love that we are all our own doctors...) My brother has Hashimoto's disease, so there is thyroid disease in the family. Althea, what do you do for low thyroid? Are you taking meds for it? I know that seaweed is rich in iodine. Also eggs (also high in cholesterol!)

    I am convinced that statins are not a good direction for me, (this immediate muscle pain scared me) and I'll explore the thyroid route. I was motivated to try diet again, more aggressively, but I just read up on all of the dos and don'ts re diet and I'm doing everything already :(

    In addition, do many of you feel that niacin in helpful? OK with Femara? Just read that CQ10 added doesn't have scientific support as an added supplement when taking statins. Are any of you taking plant sterol supplements? Anything else? I think statins may not be in the cards for me...need to find another way...

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  • zogo
    zogo Member Posts: 20,329
    edited January 2014

    sgreenarch, I'd be interested in the counter advice regarding CoQ10. Do you have a link? I've seen countless articles that support it's use.

    (I'm a research geek) :-)

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  • zogo
    zogo Member Posts: 20,329
    edited January 2014

    sgreen~ I posted my results from adding only Vitamin B3 (nicotinic acid) and fish oil on the previous page of this thread. Check those results.

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  • mormor1
    mormor1 Member Posts: 136
    edited January 2014

    Hope you don't mind me jumping in.  Just noticed this title....water soluble fiber (legumes are high in this) bonds with cholesterol (and also circulating estrogen and other toxins in the blood stream) which prevents them from being reabsorbed.  They are flushed out of your system.

    This is my favorite article for explaining the mechanism:

    http://experiencelife.com/article/fiber-why-it-mat...

    Here is another article I just googled regarding using fiber to lower cholesterol.  Taking Metamucil or psyllium husk pills (separate from when you take other meds) also really helps lower cholesterol  

    http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/ps...

    This is a great meta analysis on fiber and breast cancer risk:  Every 10 g fiber lowers breast cancer risk by 7%.  I eat a 36Gm/day soluble fiber diet.  That's about 25% risk reduction.  Pretty good.  My oncologist followed my labs too, enhanced estradiol went down rapidly.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21775566

    My lipid panel has been stellar since being on this high soluble fiber diet.

    Total cholesterol 161
    triglycerides 49
    HDL 69
    LDL 82

    Hope this is helpful!

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  • zogo
    zogo Member Posts: 20,329
    edited January 2014

    Yes! Fiber is very helpful. Thanks for sharing the articles, Mormor

    I make a One Minute Muffin with flax, oat bran, coconut flour and almond flour plus cocoa. It's a great high fiber low grain muffin for b'fast.

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  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited January 2014

    Niacin has definitely worked for me. I took it before, during all 5 years I was on Arimidex, and still take it today with no problems.

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  • sgreenarch
    sgreenarch Member Posts: 528
    edited January 2014

    Zogo, can't find the link now. They don't say it's harmful, they just say they can't prove it's helpful. When I see research like that I sometimes ignore it.

    Taking all of your recommendations and giving myself three months to try to bring down my very high chol levels without statins.

    Omega three, plant sterol tablets, B3, high fiber (Metamucil) and all diet recommendations. Will also try to see about thyroid testing. I already exercise a lot. Miss anything? Will keep you posted.

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  • zogo
    zogo Member Posts: 20,329
    edited January 2014

    Sounds like a good plan, sgreen.  It's great that you exercise...I need to add more and this darn cold weather has me trapped indoors. Even the dog doesn't want to go for a walk!! haha. 

    Niacin can be a bit tricky...make sure you don't buy the flush free niacin. That is niacinamide, and you want nicotinic acid. Flush free will do nothing for your cholesterol. Read this article and you will learn more about the kinds of niacin.  niacin article  Dr. William Davis  now recommends Slo-Niacin brand that is over the counter.

    Also, it can affect the liver in some people. It would be important to have your liver enzymes checked.

    And you have to ramp up your dosing. I gradually add more over a few weeks to a month. 

    I also take an aspirin, then a meal or snack, then the b3, to help fight the flushing. It works well for me and I rarely feel a hot flush.  

    What are plant sterols? I don't know about those.

    Please keep us posted as to your results. Smile

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  • cp418
    cp418 Member Posts: 7,079
    edited January 2014

    Plant sterols are naturally occurring in plants - walnuts, fruits, veggies, vegatable oils.  Also available as dietary supplement.  Also called phytosterols.

    http://health.howstuffworks.com/diseases-conditions/cardiovascular/cholesterol/foods-that-lower-cholesterol7.htm

    http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/cholesterol-lowering-sterols-and-stanols

    http://my.clevelandclinic.org/heart/prevention/nutrition/food-choices/phytosterols-sterols-stanols.aspx


     

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  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited January 2014

    If you take Niacin ( I use the Slo Niacin brand, sold at Walmart), you should do it with a doctor's OK & under his/her supervision. I started with one pill (500 mg) & we worked up to a level where we saw movement in the cholesterol, which for me was 1500 mg).

    Eat oatmeal every day, add more fruits & veggies, along with cutting down on red meat & processed foods.

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  • mormor1
    mormor1 Member Posts: 136
    edited January 2014

    love your attitude sgreen...wishing you wonderful results!

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  • sgreenarch
    sgreenarch Member Posts: 528
    edited February 2014

    Thanks. Anyone using plant sterols to reduce cholesterol? Supplements? If so, what brand? 

    Thanks! 

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  • crabbiepattie
    crabbiepattie Member Posts: 108
    edited February 2014

    zogo, I just googled one minute muffin recipes.  Thank you!  Easy, sounds tasty and most are gluten free - can't beat that.

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  • zogo
    zogo Member Posts: 20,329
    edited February 2014

    FYI on sterols...

    This is from the Track Your Plaque website~ a quote from Dr William Davis:

    Since we've not covered this topic in a while, I'd like to remind everyone that we should all be avoiding sterol esters.

    Sterol esters, or sterols, can be found naturally in small quantities in many foods. A rare genetic disease that allows unrestrained intestinal absorption of sterols is calledsitosterolemia. Even the modest quantities of sterols in an average diet are sufficient to cause heart disease in these people in their teens and twenties.

    In other words, sterol absorption into the bloodstream is a very undesirable thing.

    The food industry is busy adding sterols to many products, from yogurt and mayonnaise, to margarine, to aspirin. Many supplements have added sterols. This allows a "heart healthy" claim to be made on the label.

    However, blood levels of sterols in people without sitosterolemia--meaning you and me--can skyrocket 10-fold. Some people also absorb more than others and susceptibility can vary.

    I fear that, while sterols do indeed reduce LDL cholesterol, they may also increase risk for heart disease and trigger plaque growth when ingested in more than normal quantities. It reminds me of the food industry's replacement of saturated fat with hydrogenated fat, a widespread practice until it blew up in our faces with heightened risk for cancer, hypertension, inflammatory disease, and heart disease.

    Shockingly, there has not been a single safety study to examine this important question. So, until there is confident clarification of this issue, everyone is advised to avoid processed food products or supplements that contain added sterol esters. 
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  • cp418
    cp418 Member Posts: 7,079
    edited February 2014

    http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/30/4/404.full.pdf

    Controversial role of plant sterol esters in the management of hypercholesterolaemia

     

     


     

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  • FireKracker
    FireKracker Member Posts: 8,046
    edited February 2014

    did anyone try choleslo from the u tube video.

    I was and still am takin no fush niacin.500 mgs is fine but when I tried to up it to 1,000 I got the leg cramps again..I need to go for blood work at the end of the month but I would like to try this choleslo

    Anyone no. Anything about this?

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  • cp418
    cp418 Member Posts: 7,079
    edited February 2014

    I am trying the Cholestacare supplement which is plant sterols and fiber capsules.  I'll have bloodwork done soon but don't know if I've been taken this supplement long enough to see a difference yet. 

    http://www.progressivehealth.com/can-beta-sitosterol-really-lower-cholesterol.htm

    Now I'm wondering what is the point of statins or this supplement due to possible side effects.........  Maybe just consume LOTS of fiber daily and see if it makes a difference.

     

    okay - maybe artichoke leaf extract is another option???  http://www.progressivehealth.com/can-artichoke-leaf-lower-cholesterol.htm

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  • FireKracker
    FireKracker Member Posts: 8,046
    edited February 2014

    I'm so confused

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  • cp418
    cp418 Member Posts: 7,079
    edited February 2014

    me Too!!  Shocked  Everything in moderation!!!

     

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0011986/

    Artichoke leaf extract for treating high cholesterol levels


     

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  • zogo
    zogo Member Posts: 20,329
    edited February 2014

    FireKracker, "No flush niacin" doesn't do anything for cholesterol. 

    Niacinamide is the name of the flush-free kind. 

    You need Nicotinic Acid not niacinamide. Over the counter, try Slo Niacin.

    That Choleslo ad comes off as an infomercial. You might as well take a statin b/c it contains red yeast rice, which IS a statin. Beware.

    Personally, I'm staying away from sterols and red yeast rice. Fiber is good...I make a no grain One Minute Muffin most mornings. It has plenty of fiber!

    Going for blood work tomorrow. Hopefully, the news will be good.

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  • cp418
    cp418 Member Posts: 7,079
    edited February 2014

    Thanks zogo - I removed that video as you stated it was a product advertisement.

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  • FireKracker
    FireKracker Member Posts: 8,046
    edited February 2014

    zogo,my neighbor is takin the no flush niacin and it brought her cholesterol all the way down

    Her dr.was very pleased with it soo I tried it and told my dr

    He said see if it works,I'm gonna get blood work done at the end of the month

    Now I'm really confused

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