What do you use to lower cholesterol without statins?

georgie1112

Hi Jane,

Hope you don't mind answering some questions. What is the particle number? I've not heard of that before. Is it normally part of a cholesterol test? How much fish oil and B3 are you taking? is B3 Niacidamide?

Also if the ratio of HDL to LDL is good does the overall number matter?

Guess I don't know much but want to learn. 

cp418

sgreenarch - I wondered the same as you that the cause isn't so much the AI medication (yes- it does contribute to the condition), but that our post-menopause status with minimal estrogen is signaling "some" of us to over produce cholesterol.  There seems to be a relationship in "some" post menopause women to develop a metabolic syndrome condition with issues of weight, high BP, high lipids, diabetes with gucose values creeping up.  So again, diet and exercise is critical but we need to figure out what works for us.....   Note: there are plenty of post-menopause women who are not over weight (fit/thin) who have these metabolic changes occur .  So I'm guessing being over weight may be partly the problem for some - but it's our individual genetic metabolism that drives it.  Plus - for those of us who were crashed into menopause due to chemo, oophorectomy or ovarian suppression - I wonder if we struggle with this problem more? 

sgreenarch

cp418, I agree with you and wonder if there is some kind of a syndrome that's driving our bodies to find a new route to feed a need that we don't quite understand.And I wonder if those of us who are like this are in more danger of recurrence, as some of the literature seems to imply. This is what is impelling me to start on the statins. I've been down about this all day, obsessing about whether to try to beat this with a ridiculous (probably unsustainable) diet or give in and go for the yet another pill (for a long time, like Femara.) Right now I'm thinking I'll do a modified version of the diet, concentrating on really low carb (that's the base I haven't covered til now...completely healthy, but need to go lighter on whole grains.) and I'll start the statins. Problem is that I won't ever know if I can really lower my cholesterol by 100 points, but I'm nervous about stretching out this high cholesterol period while I try. Chicken and egg problem....thanks for sharing.

BigDBeatingBigC

I take many supplements made by Pro Caps Laboratories,owned by Andrew Lessman.  He has a website but you can get better deals on HSN.  Here is a product I take that has lowered by cholesterol naturally.  It works even better if you take it with Fibermucil, a separate product he sells.  He also sells the Cholestacare and Fibermucil together.  You can read the many reviews on any of his products.  They are worth the money. 

http://www.hsn.com/products/andrew-lessman-cholestacare-720-capsules/5504700?query=10061121&isSuggested=True&

zogo

sgreenarch, I've been eating low carb for over 2.5 years now. It is doable for me, especially since I have done a ton of online research and consider this my way of eating for life. It lowers my risk of heart disease, cancer, diabetes and dementia, all of which are in my family history.  So, I consider NOT eating this way NOT an option. For the first year, I didn't eat any sweets or didn't try baking anything sweet. Now I have tried lots of recipes with various natural sweeteners and continue to experiment. Here is an article I share with friends that are on statins. We all have to make our own decisions, but it is something to consider.

 women statins

georgie, I didn't know about particle number until I went to my lipidologist. No, it is not part of the standard cholesterol panel. Some of the ratios are more accurate, but total cholesterol is basically worthless as a predictor of heart disease. The root problem is inflamation.

As for Vit B, I take an extended release version of Nicotinic Acid. Be aware that the "flush free" niacin, or niacinamide, does nothing for cholesterol. I started slowly with 500mg and gradually got up to 2000mg/day. It is important to start slowly, as it can cause flushing. Also, your doctor needs to keep an eye on your liver enzymes to make sure they are ok on it.  I take a Tbsp of lemon flavored Carlson's fish oil every day. I'm shooting for about 2000 mg of EPA and DHA every day. 

By just adding Vit B and fish oil, here is the change in my numbers:

TC ~ 263 -- 203

LDL ~ 180 -- 113

HDL ~  55  --  79

TriG ~ 177  -- 54

And the ones my doctor really was concerned about fell dramatically:

LDL-P ~ 2388 -- 1129

Lp(a) ~ 60 -- 27

Not every number is perfect, but it sure is getting better. Oh, and a bonus for me, I've lost almost 40 lbs on low carb. I'd be happy to answer any more questions. And I'm always willing to learn....

cp418

zogo - You have very impressive lab results with your new diet !!  How long did it take for you to see these changes occur?  Your link was very helpful and a bit scary but information is good for patients IMO.  I went to Dr Mark Hymans link of recipes and they look yummy - is this the diet you are following?  May I ask what do you eat for a typical breakfast, lunch and dinner?  I'm just trying to get an idea how strict and if I'm thinking / doing the same type of dietary changes.  Yes - ALWAYS learning more!! 

 

JoanT - Very interesting as I've just recently tried a plant sterol supplement too.  This one looks promising by adding fiber as well.  Thanks for the link!

zogo

hey cp, I should clarify my timeline. My diep flap surgery was 12/10, I started eating low carb 6/11 in order to lose weight before a final reconstruction (which i still haven't had), I had colon cancer diagnosed 12/11. The first numbers I posted are from 11/12 and I expected them to be much better as I had been fairly faithful to low carb and had lost over 20 lbs at that point. That is when I became disciplined in my WOE ("way of eating", I don't call it a diet as it is for life) and started adding the B3 and fish oil.

I follow a low carb/ketogenic type menu. There are a few great websites with awesome recipes. Here is a typical day:

Breakfast: Coffee with heavy whipping cream plus 

a few eggs cooked in butter sometimes with bacon or

a sugar free (sf) pumpkin scone or

a sf cream cheese muffin (kind of like a mini cheesecake) or

leftovers from the night before

Lunch: salad with some meat and cheese and full fat dressing (no croutons or bread!)

Dinner: Meat and lc veggies

kids like taco night and I use lc Mission brand tortillas. In fact I stopped buying bread for the house and make a wrap with these for the kids lunchbox every day.

Snacks: Nuts, Cheese, Boiled eggs, Berries, sf Jello w/ hwc whipped...

LtotheK

I thought the latest was we were supposed to lay off the fish oil due to recent studies...thoughts?

zogo

I did hear something about fish oil recently, but not sure what/where. Any info would be great, please.

abigail48

gary wouldn't agree but I should think it's better to use the real stuff.  bleeding with the ground flax seed too I heard.  but it's anyway more real than flax oil

lightandwind

Everything I've read says fish oil inhibits breast cancer. Here's one...

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/omega-3-fi...

LtotheK

I'm thinking about the reports on fish oil and prostate cancer, which seemed to call megadosing 1 - 3,000 IU a day into question.  If you guys think it's okay, I'm going out and buying my Nordic Naturals tomorrow!!  My skin, hair, cholesterol, and a few other things were notably better on it. And with the latest studies that cholesterol seems to feed cancer...

sundermom

I recently had my cholesterol checked and the total dropped 40 points from pre-Tamoxifen levels. My PCP told me it was an added benefit of Tamoxifen. Hmm...

Despite having stellar HDL, LDL and triglycerides my PCP still wanted me to start a statin because this one enzyme was elevated. I can't remember the letters, maybe CSA, but it indicates inflammation and possible increased risk of a cardiac event. I declined a statin as I am only 40, eat a healthy diet and am active. Instead, I found several articles citing a correlation of 1000mg of Vitamin C taken daily with a decrease in this enzyme. Anybody had a similar experience? 

Fallleaves

Hi Sundermom, are you thinking of CRP? I've been thinking of requesting the test for that from my doctor, because it can be a predictive of BC survival rates. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/227228.p...

LtotheK

Tamoxifen is a very tricky drug.  In pre-menopausal women, it can behave oppositely, for instance, it can degrade bone just like an AI.  For me, it ain't helping the cholesterol (43).

cp418

http://www.fccc.edu/information/news/press-releases/2013/2013-04-09-aacr-omega3-fatty-acids.html

Found a link regarding Omega-3 for breast cancer.

Another link for CRP to breast cancer.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23627410

CRP is a measure of system inflammation somewhere in the body.

hope70

Hi! What about using flaxseeds in ER+? My MO suggested not to use it , since flaz has Phytoestrogens?

corky60

When I was diagnosed the nurse navigator advised me to take fish oil daily.  I now do and try to eat canned salmon too when it's on sale.

lala1

I have been taking fish oil for a few years. After BC diagnosis, my MO told me to increase my DHA/EPA levels to around 1000mg which I did. Combined with exercise and some diet change (I added flaxseed and fruit smoothies) I got my cholesterol down to good levels. Recently a doctor said I should get even more DHA/EPA...like in the 1200mg range so a week ago I started that. After 2 days, I felt really nauseated and dizzy (I had also started taking a One A Day multi that day) and figured it was the multi so I stopped. Still felt the same for the next 4 days, even to the point of leaving the gym during my workout because I thought I might faint or vomit. So today I stopped the fish oil. As I write this, I actually feel the best I've felt in 5 days!! Still not 100% but definitely not as queasy. I was not taking an "excessive" amount and didn't just suddenly start with the 1200mg dosage. I just think my system can't handle those numbers of fish oil. So anyone starting fish oil should keep this in mind. Side effects are nausea, bloating, loose stool or diarreah, dizziness, belching, gas and even acne (which I got 5 days ago and never get!). Never had a single side effect on the lower dose which was even a brand I got at Sams Club! And the brand that made me sick? From a health food store!

Anyway, point I'm making is to add meds or alter meds with caution. And do I gradually and one at a time so if you have any issues, you can trace it back to the culprit. So I'm going to go a few days and make sure all is good and then go to Sams Club for a new bottle!!

Fallleaves

Hope70, I haven't seen anything so far that shows flaxseed has a negative effect on breast cancer patients who are ER+, and in fact it seems to have beneficial effects. I am eating several tablespoons a day myself. Here's a recent systematic review on flax:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24013641

ruthbru

I think the jury is still out on flax.......

Be careful about adding any supplement to your diet.....I would run it by my doctor first, even the over-the-counter stuff. My sister almost did herself in with Red Brewers Yeast, which she started on the recommendation of a friend. She ended up in the ER with a severe allergic reaction.

Fallleaves

Well, I haven't seen anything that shows flaxseed promotes breast cancer, and I actually look for negative studies before I add anything to my "regimen". I'd be interested if anyone has seen any studies that would raise any red flags. One website I like because it presents negative as well as positive reviews (based on scientific studies) of various foods and supplements, is foodforbreastcancer.com   

althea

lala, are you familiar with herxheimer reaction?  Your symptoms describe it.  In the process of reducing inflammation that is too high, the body can experience a level of toxins in the bloodstream that is too high.  Tis best to not be constipated or dehydrated at a time like this.  Peeing or pooping them out is the ideal way to get rid of them, or sweating too.  Otherwise, they will find a place in a fat cell to camp out until the next time they're knocked into the bloodstream.  

Also be sure your fish oil is of good quality.  Pharmaceutical grade is the only kind I ever take.  I notice that my brain works better when I take my fish oil.  Those pills are just so enormous.  I'm very hit and miss in using them. 

ruthbru

This is from BCO 'Ask the Experts' conferences:

Research on flaxseed?

Last modified on September 17, 2012 at 7:00 pm

---

Question fromJan: A few years ago there was some encouraging research about the effect of flaxseed on breast cancer. Has any further research been done or conclusions drawn?

Answers -Ruth Oratz, M.D., F.A.C.P. Flaxseed is a phytoestrogen, a substance derived from a plant which has estrogen-like properties. Whether or not these agents have any effect on the growth of breast cancer cells -- either to promote the growth or inhibit the growth of these cells -- is somewhat unclear. It is very difficult to do research in this area and to actually measure the biological effects of these dietary supplements or products. As far as I know, there is no new data from this new meeting regarding the dietary intake of phytoestrogen. In general, most medical oncologists recommend that patients avoid large-dose supplementations with phytoestrogen; however, small doses or small amounts taken in the diet are probably safe.

Carol Kaplan I agree with that, and we also often caution patients about taking high doses of other plant estrogens, such as black cohosh and soy. We often advise patients with questions about this to run their supplement list by a clinic nutritionist in order to identify supplements that they may be unaware are plant estrogens.

abigail48

so back to the future?=fish  the flax certainly is a big help in the morning, & constipation can be fatal

ruthbru

prunes and coffee for me

Fallleaves

Hi Ruth,

I have seen that "ask the experts", but I haven't seen any actual data that indicated flaxseed has negative effects on BC. Everything so far has been positive. http://nutritionfacts.org/2013/10/17/flaxseeds-br...

http://www.aicr.org/assets/docs/pdf/education/Flax...

And there are several clinical trials underway to see if flaxseed can prevent or treat BC

http://www.cancer.gov/clinicaltrials/search/view?c...

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01276704?ter...

http://www.cancer.gov/clinicaltrials/search/view?c...

ruthbru

Interesting, thanks for the links.

georgie1112

My doctor recommended 4 tsp of flaxseed per day to avoid bc.

lala1

Thanks, althea. I'll look into this. Never heard of it! After I posted on Mon, I started to feel bad again! By Wed am, I felt just as bad as day one. I had a followup with my PS though, on Wed who is 2 floors over my regular dr so I stopped in and consulted with her nurse. She recommended that I go back to taking my multi and the fish oil but to start at a lower dose and build up. She also suggested I drink alot of liquids and get extra Vitamin C for a few days and see if that helped. Have to say by today am feeling better. I really racked my brain trying to figure out the cause so I'll read up on this herxheimer reaction and see if that might have been it.