I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

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  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited January 2013

    Kam - difficult question; one for which your onc can only give an opinion as a human being, when it comes down to it.

    If you want to watch your body like a hawk and catch mets early and treat aggressively and make a play for any survival benefit you can get, then scanning often and comprehensively MAY make sense. I say MAY because the scenario I have just outlined only makes sense if you will be someone who responds well to treatment. Some stage IV women progress and die more rapidly because of treatment, whereas others are able to prolong life as a result of medical help. Unfortunately, there is no knowing in advance what category you will fall into until you are there. People on BCO generally have more longevity than what is average for a stage IV diagnosis. Would you be one of them? Who can say.

    I asked this question of myself. In deciding whether I wanted to have a short- and medium-term follow up plan that would be detailed, with scans and markers, I first analyzed a few issues as they related to ME and MY goals and values. They were:

    --Am I committed to treating at all costs and doing everything possible to prolong life with or without debilitating side effects?

    --Am I someone who wants to know I have mets even if I have no symptoms, and am I someone who would undergo treatment for mets with no symptoms?

    --How have I responded to tx I have had? If I had mets, some of those tx would be recommended again. Did I tolerate the side effects well? Could I tolerate the treatment for the rest of my life and still think it worth my while?

    --How comfortable am I with ambiguity? Do I need answers now, or am I somewhat stoic and believe that, with an illness with no cure, over-treatment and over-vigilance may not pay off?

    --Do I have young children/a huge responsibility/ am I in a situation where, even in a disabled state, my survival is imperative for the well being (not just the happiness) of a loved one?

    --What is life to me - is it being alive at any cost, even if I am disabled and not able to enjoy myself, or do I need a bottom line quality of life in order to really feel it is worth it?

    --Do I have the love and support I need to get me through treacherous treatment?

    When you look at these questions and think about the answers, you see how very subjective this is for each of us. I know early stage people who wish they had never had certain treatment, such were the scars it left for them, whereas other people, stage IV, will undergo horrendous side effects for a bit more time and may even resist their doctor's recommendations for hospice. This thing runs the gamut.

    My follow-up care, such as itis, is in accordance with my answers to these questions.

    Finally, on a more technical note: A full body PET scan is only somewhat accurate and will not catch malignancies that are less than about 0.5 cms. That is why so many people have clean scans, then are declared stage IV a few months later. And vice versa. Scans can also produce false positives or situations that require further investigation. Lots of anxiety, perhaps wasted time and resources for an incrable disease. But, for some, for a few more months on this precious earth.

    It's the most values-strong issue I have ever dealt with.

    Good luck making your choices in the privacy and sanctity of your mind. Don't let anybody tell you what you should or should not do with your own body  -remember that.

  • pupmom
    pupmom Member Posts: 5,068
    edited January 2013

    I don't know if anyone is still interested, but India is starting to prosecute, through fast-track courts, rapists and murderers. One scum, who raped and tortured a 3 year old, has been sentenced to death. Three, who independently raped teenagers have all been sentenced to life imprisonment.

    Here it sounds silly to celebrate the obvious taking place, but India has been woefully negligant in prosecuting rapists. Maybe there is hope that the country will seriously address its terrible problem with rape.

    I will post my pics from India as soon as I figure out how to get them from my iPhone to the computer. Need hubby's help.

  • Chickadee
    Chickadee Member Posts: 4,467
    edited January 2013

    Can't speak for earlier stage girls but for us IV's its typical to do blood tests monthly and CT scans quarterly. Or PET scans for others. Gawd I'm sick of drinking that contrast.



    And my onc is part of a large hospital system so the scan money isn't hers.

  • IllinoisLady
    IllinoisLady Member Posts: 29,082
    edited January 2013

    KY sheriff vowed to defy gun laws because 2nd Amendment is ‘like the Bible’

    By: David Edwards


    A Kentucky sheriff who refused to enforce any new gun laws that he deemed unconstitutional says that the Second Amendment is “like the Bible” because “you either believe it or you don’t.”

    In a recent interview with The Lexington Herald-Leader, Jackson County Sheriff Denny Peyman said that he had a “moral obligation” to defy any new executive orders from President Barack Obama or laws passed by Congress if they restricted the Constitutional right to bear arms.

    “I swore an oath to the Constitution,” Peyman explained to Fox News host Greta Van Susteren on Monday. “And in the Constitution is the Second Amendment and that’s what this country is based upon. How can I rightfully in my own mind and in my heart come in and take guns away from people when that is their protection?”

    Susteren asked the sheriff, who is a member of the National Rifle Association (NRA), how gun laws should be changed to prevent another mass shooting like the one that killed 20 children in Newtown, Connecticut.

     

    “If you take out part — it’s kind of like the Bible — either you believe it or you don’t believe it,” he insisted. “The Constitution, either you believe it or you don’t. Either you live by it or you don’t.”

    “If the people in the theater [in Aurora, Colorado], if there had been somebody in there or several people in there with a firearm, how many people would have got shot? In the school, how many people would have got shot?”

    Susteren pressed Peyman on what he would do “put the lid on some of these incidents” if he were president.

    “The Secondment Amendment, the way it was designed was to protect the people,” he replied. “In protection, it’s just like if I’m a bad guy and I’m going to go kick a door but I know that the guy behind that door has a gun, and I go to this other door where I know a guy doesn’t have a gun, that’s the door I’m going to kick.”

    “You’re still going to have incidences, you’re still going to have violence. You’re not going to be able to curb that, but the innocent people are going to be able to protect themselves.”


    Raw Story (http://s.tt/1ytUT)

    Edited to add:  The print was no longer small when I finished the c & p cycle.

    Sorry for the small print..  I was not successful with being able to post a link so copied and pasted.    I'm having trouble with any asheriff that talks as this one does.  Seems to me that maybe he has the same problem as a lot of people...............seeing things that are not there ( his rights or duties ) and not seeing why are are back at the point of having serious, serious changes in our gun laws and what you are allowed to have..............and of course it is something of a problem to me that you need a high clip assault weapon for your and your families protection.  My question is....who are you pissing off that badly and why.  Maybe they need protection from you !!!!

    Jackie

  • bluedahlia
    bluedahlia Member Posts: 6,944
    edited January 2013

    Jackie they're afraid of the Guvmint!  Just in case the socialist/muslim turns into a tyrant!  They are very good at making judgements and conspiracy theories, don't you know!

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited January 2013

    The New York gun law is quite comprehensive:

    The expanded ban on assault weapons broadens the definition of such weapons, banning semiautomatic pistols and rifles with detachable magazines and one military-style feature, as well as semiautomatic shotguns with one military-style feature. New Yorkers who already own such guns can keep them but will be required to register them with the state.

    The legislative package, which Mr. Cuomo on Monday said he believed would be “the most comprehensive package in the nation,” will also ban any gun magazine that can hold more than 7 rounds of ammunition — the current limit is 10 rounds. It will also require background checks of ammunition buyers and automated alerts to law enforcement agencies of high-volume purchases.

    ........(Edited out NRA histrionics)

    In an acknowledgment that many people have suggested that part of the solution to gun violence is a better government response to mental illness, the legislation includes not only new restrictions on gun ownership, but also efforts to limit access to guns by mentally ill people.

    The most significant new element will require mental health professionals to report to local mental health officials when they believe that patients are likely to harm themselves or others. Law enforcement officials will then be authorized to confiscate any firearm owned by a dangerous patient; therapists will not be punished for a failure to report such patients if they acted “in good faith.”

    The legislation will extend and expand Kendra’s Law, which empowers judges to order mentally ill patients to receive outpatient treatment. And it will require gun owners to keep weapons inaccessible in homes where a resident has been involuntarily committed, convicted of a crime or is the subject of an order of protection.

    The legislation will increase penalties for multiple crimes committed with guns, will require background checks for most private gun sales and will create a statewide gun-registration database. It also includes a so-called Webster provision, named for the shooting deaths of two firefighters who were ambushed in Webster, near Rochester, just before Christmas. The provision will mandate a life sentence without parole for anyone who murders a first responder."

    More here:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/16/nyregion/tougher-gun-law-in-new-york.html?hp&pagewanted=print

  • bluedahlia
    bluedahlia Member Posts: 6,944
    edited January 2013

    Wait a minute!  He's already a tyrant.  Haven't you heard that gentle soul being referred to as such?

  • pupmom
    pupmom Member Posts: 5,068
    edited January 2013

    Anderson Cooper just had a piece discussing how the Gun Crazies now think that these mass shootings are a hoax and an Obama conspiracy to take away their guns. NOT KIDDING! The brother of a woman killed in Colorado said he's gotten death threats from these crazies. The father of a child killed in Sandy Hook has received the same after he appeared on t.v. Somehow, someway these lunatics MUST be marginalized. Right now, the NRA is using them to promote its 'assault weapons for all' agenda.

  • Belinda44
    Belinda44 Member Posts: 718
    edited January 2013
  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited January 2013

    I am beginning to think that the level of hysteria by the extreme right wing is an almost perfect barometer of how little real power they have. The more they cackle and spit, the weaker they are getting.

    Almost as with the trash culture - loads of people are interested and read or watch it but history will only have a footnote for the Kardashians, the "real housewives," etc... - if at all, and only in a book that talks about the fall of the American empire.

  • alexandria58
    alexandria58 Member Posts: 1,588
    edited January 2013

    Maybe this conspiracy crap will finally push the rest of the country into throwing the gun nuts off the bus.

  • pupmom
    pupmom Member Posts: 5,068
    edited January 2013

    My thoughts exactly, Alexandria. I'm very glad people like A.C. are putting it out there.

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited January 2013

    Interesting....EJ Dionne making the point on Rachel Maddow that some blue state republicans in the house may well vote against assault weapons.

    Many decades ago, the Ku Klux Klan had incredible power with membership in the millions. It is just a tiny group today. I hope the NRA goes the same way. it is not invincible.

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited January 2013

    More Rachel Maddow - THANK YOU BARACK - for choosing a license plate saying "Taxation Without Representation" in honor of DC on Inauguration Day.

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited January 2013

    New NRA commercial says: (paraphrasing) "How is it that the president's two daughters have armed guards protecting them but he would deny security for our schools."

    Keep getting stupider, stupid people!! You only do the opposition cause a better service!

    And give us a few laughs!Laughing

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited January 2013

    NRA blinks - reportedly withdrawing that ad. We shall see.

    ETA: Ad may still be up. I went to their site and did not find it.

  • QuinnCat
    QuinnCat Member Posts: 3,456
    edited January 2013

    Athena - thanks for putting to paper all of the issues surrounding scans.  All of these things I've thought about, but not at once or in a cohesive manner.  I think it really clarifies what I would do - probably no scans, absent cause.  My only caveat is the potential to detect a different type of cancer, early.  Being brca, there are a few others on "the list."

    Watching Last Word.  Seems like the debt limit problem could be a whole lot of nothing.  Boehner rule out the window; some R-senators already warning against using this as leverage.  This is good news.

    I had the nicest of nicest walks today.  Besides the sunny sky, snowy ground and rarefied air, I'm almost 6 months out of chemo and I could finally push hard up a hill.  I felt like my old old self.

  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited January 2013

    Kam -- Congrats on gaining the hill!  I recall going for a walk every day (my chemo ran from April to mid-August, so good weather) and having to make sure my route allowed for opportunities to sit down.  Had never, ever experienced fatigue such as chemo presented to me, and I still frequently think of those days as I walk the same route these days.

  • suzieq60
    suzieq60 Member Posts: 6,059
    edited January 2013

    On the scan issue - my onc has never recommended any scans except for those given at time of dx - the risk from the radiation is greater than the risk of mets. Not sure what his attitude would be for a later stage like 111b or something. On the other hand, the same onc made Steve have annual CT scans after his bowel cancer and subsequent lung mets. He is still supposed to have one last one but won't.

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited January 2013

    My tumors have never produced the markers tested.  Even when I had six tumors, all markers were in the normal range.  I have to depend on a PET/CT to catch early mets, though it didn't catch the last one.  

    Either PET/CTs aren't accurate AT ALL, or my cancer is becoming stealthier.  I don't like either thought.

    And this was before Medicare, so I can't even blame it on the guvmint.

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited January 2013

    BTW, I hate insomnia.

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited January 2013

    Does anyone else hate insomnia?

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited January 2013

    Because I sure do.  

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited January 2013

    Horse news:  My horse has been in training for a week and he's already trotting around the arena under saddle.  He (my horse) told me that the scary man (trainer) said he was a good boy.  He's very proud of himself.  He also told me that he understands his job and can't wait to jump with me.

    I told him that he's the bestest horse in the world, and probably the universe (including all alternate forms thereof), and I can't wait to ride with him.  We're going to have FUN!

    In other news, OBAMA IS STILL PRESIDENT.  Woohoo!

    Tired&PunchySuz

  • bluedahlia
    bluedahlia Member Posts: 6,944
    edited January 2013

    I'm up early too E.  Lose and scrambled brains here, but thank goodness for "Sanctuary" which I love to watch!

  • bluedahlia
    bluedahlia Member Posts: 6,944
    edited January 2013

    Can't really type thus early but you made me do it!

  • alexandria58
    alexandria58 Member Posts: 1,588
    edited January 2013

    E- I hate insomnia, too.  Took ambien for a while, but it stopped being effective.  For me, it comes and goes.

    Can't wait to see you riding your beautiful boy.  Still hope that maybe some day, I'll have a horse.

  • bluedahlia
    bluedahlia Member Posts: 6,944
    edited January 2013

    This is disgusting, not political, just plain old disgusting!

  • lassie11
    lassie11 Member Posts: 1,500
    edited January 2013

    I woke up way too early today but that's not terrible because it's the day of a Great Adventure where my new (automatic transmission) car and I will head to The Big City to see my Dad for the first time since my fall. I hope the demonstrations today don't close the 401.

  • pupmom
    pupmom Member Posts: 5,068
    edited January 2013

    The NRA has definitely reached new lows. I guess the target practice with coffins app for 4 year olds is to desensitize them to seeing their classmates being buried WHEN, not if, more Sandy Hooks occur. YellYellYell Also, what are they implying with the add about Obama's children? Every schoolchild should have armed personal guards? Because THAT is the comparison. Stupid is as stupid does.

    I'm feeling like this will be no lame duck 4 years for President Obama! He's already taking on the most difficult political issues and standing tall and firm! Smile Hooray for him on the license plate! I've never understood why DC is treated so shabbily.

    Starting to get a little worried about pneumonia and bronchitis, both of which I've had before. Coughed up and blew a lot last night. Slept almost 11 hours and could go back to bed right now. Hoping the coffee kicks in soon. In addition to drinking ginger tea, I think I'll inhale some steam from my teapot. That sometimes helps break up the congestion.

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