I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

Thank you, Canada!

Belinda, thank you for your graphs. I think it is especially instructive to see how many times the Republicans have filibustered during Obama's term. If that doesn't show how different things are this time then I don't know what does.

To some others, it strikes me as odd that Romney can come out all hopped up spouting lies and merely be called aggressive. But then Joe comes out and is just Joe and he's called all sorts of names. Perhaps looking at some of those graphics that Belinda posted might be instructive to you. But then again if you simply stopped in to lecture and impart us with your great intelligence but not to actually converse with us I guess it won't. Conversation welcome - lectures not so much.

Belinda - the graphs are great!

Enjoyful: Give me got two posts here - I guess two donations are in order.  I'll have to go with Obama and the Democratic party.  After the election, I'll donate to food pantries for those unwilling to take responsibility for their lives....

since Biden has been called on the carpet right here at home for "smirking" too much.  I'm going to say that if he had pointed out the many inaccuracies contained within Ryan's statements without smiling, then people would have said he was too angry.  If you're going to call someone out, then you'd better do it with a friendly manner, as otherwise you simply come across as angry and even abusive.  I thought Biden handled the whole situation very well.

As for "throwing Hillary under the bus" comments that I have seen bandied about.  No one that I've seen has done that in the slightest.  The only people anywhere that I've seen making comments to that effect are people at Fox News and on the mirror thread here (until of course it was posted above).  I've certainly not seen any other comments to that effect.  The fact is that an investigation is still on-going.  Were mistakes made?  Yes, there were.  Were some made by Hillary?  I don't know.  Were some made by Obama or Biden?  I don't know that either.  However, they (the President and Vice President) were ultimately in charge, so in the end, wherever the mistakes were, they will be laid upon their door.  That's the way things generally work.  Was 9/11 Bush's fault?  Not really, but in the end, the blame was laid at his door, as he was the man in charge.  It's easy in retrospect to say "he should have done this or that or the other thing".  But there have been many instances of attacks on Americans (remember the Marine barracks in Lebanon when Reagan was President, when 200+ were killed?)  Generally speaking, when Americans die overseas there is a bit more - shall I say forgiveness - given to the President.  Obviously that will not happen with this President at this time - especially given the fact that the election is less than a month away.

As for the "working across the aisle" bit of the attacks on Obama.  I have never seen anyone try as hard as he did to compromise.  Compromise was not available.  Rebuplicans in Congress - especially in the House - were intent upon making Obama a one term President, and they have been perfectly happy to see the rest of America suffer while working toward that goal. 

Wow. I appreciate that people with other views come here. I like an exchange of ideas. But phrases like "shame on you" do not advance the discussion.

I also wonder why it was okay for Romney to beat up on Obama but not for Biden to beat up on Ryan.

I respect both Barbara and Beesie, even when I disagree with them.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the reason there were two threads that deal with politics is that feelings run so high. I hope if we venture into each other's threads it is with facts and respect.

Belinda, thanks for your graphs!  There is another set of figures that shows that the President actually had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate for a grand total of 24 working days in the first two years of his administration -- I will look for it and post here.  It is heavily sourced, including the Senate legistlative calendar.  Remember -- Al Franken's swearing in was delayed by months because of Norm Coleman's intransigence, Teddy Kennedy and Robert Byrd were ill a good portion of the time, there was delay in appointing someone to fill the President's Senate seat, and Joe Lieberman caucuses only nominally with the Democrats, since he is officially an independent. 

And yes, Belinda, my stomach clenched at the appalling and blatant attempt to upset the Vice President by recounting a story so similar to his own tragic loss of his wife and infant daughter.  I was beyond disgusted -- there are thousands of stories to use ... why use that one if not in a blatant attempt to hurt Joe Biden.

And thanks GG, RR, Alexandria and Illinois Lady for chiming in.  I left out a bunch of stuff in my posts because I only had so much to type -- and it would fall on blind eyes anyway.  In the vernacular, "Haters gonna hate," and no amount of reasoning or facts will change that.

Glad my friends are still here.

L

With all the criticism of Obama and Biden on the other thread and in drive by posts, I have yet to see any posts that articulate what the Republicans would do if elected.  Romney will increase jobs by 12,000,000.  How?  Romney will cut the deficit by closing loop holes. Which ones? Romney will stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons.  What would he specifically do differently?

The ladies on the other thread and the drive bys wont talk policy because they can't.  Romney/Ryan refuse to give details on what loop holes would be cut, how they would prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons, how they will increase jobs.  The platform is silent on these issues as well.

Here is Obama's record from PolitiFact.org. 74% of his promises are either fulfilled or in the works.  I am including those promises that were compromised because compromise in politics is unavoidable.  The fact that he has been able to get so much of his agenda through Congress proves that he does work with Republicans in spite of their protests to the contrary. Here is the link with details. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

Promises kept................38%

Promises compromised....15%

Promises in the works......21%

Promises not rated...........2%

Promises broken..............17%

HL, Not, Belinda, GG, River, Sun - it's so good to read logic and sense.  Facts actually do matter.

Good to be among friends.

I see it's time for another donation.  I think this one is going to our Democratic Senate candidate ... we have a chance at picking up this seat.

Lots of good information posted in response though IMO.  It has bothered me from the beginning that the attack in Libya was being used politically.  A candidate who really does not know what is/was going on shooting off their mouth can cause further damage.  An incumbent President has many advantages in a political race but their disadvantage is that they are not free to just spout off and must often remain silent or be evasive for national security reasons.

I love Biden.  That big smile just always makes me smile too ... even at times in the past when I disagreed with him.  And yes ... he called out the BS and the lack of any specifics on their so-called 'plan' and the lies and the flip flops.  I sincerely hope Obama does the same next time ... it's long overdue.

Happy weekend everybody!

ETA  ... just saw your post Bren.  You are an angel ... have a safe trip.  All digits crossed that they come up with something good for Brenda quickly.        

I just don't get some people.  Do they forget that we were in a free fall in November 2008?  Now the stock market is up, unemployment is dropping, housing sales are up, foreclosures are down.  Uh.....yeah, we are doing better now than we were four years ago. 

Don't you love statistics and facts?.......

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/10/12/14391322-you-dont-read-the-statistics

"Biden pounced, explaining, "You don't read the statistics. That's not how [the unemployment rate is] going. It's going down," but Ryan made his pitch anyway.

"Look, did they come in and inherit a tough situation? Absolutely. But we're going in the wrong direction.... We're heading in the wrong direction."

Now, this would ordinarily be the time that I point out how backwards this is. Every relevant metric -- job creation, economic growth, the stock market, the manufacturing sector, even the deficit -- is vastly improved as compared to four years ago. If improving economic conditions, in Ryan's mind, are "the wrong direction," he probably ought to define "wrong." Just last week, the unemployment rate fell to a four-year low -- is Ryan going to argue that a falling jobless rate is bad news?

But event putting these details aside, another problem with Ryan's take is that even Mitt Romney has said the opposite.

The Republican presidential candidate has said, more than once, that "the economy is getting better." Indeed, remember this incredible clip?"  (see link for the clip)