The Fungal Theory

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  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited February 2011

    barry, Just to let you know I did have the equivalent of the Mammasite radiation. I was suggested to use  it by my BS because of the location of my tumor. It was on my lest side, and right near the heart muscle. My BS was conserned with whole breast radiation because of this plus heart attacts run in my family.

    I found the treatments no problem at all. The techs I worked with were fantastic. I had no redness after words, and no pain. I't was a long week, but that was mostly because of the 2 treatments daily. I went back to work the next week and did fine. Smile

  • Hindsfeet
    Hindsfeet Member Posts: 2,456
    edited February 2011

    So...we shouldn't eat raw bread dough....just thinking how yeast could expand in our tummies.

    Beautiful picture Impositive of you and your hubby.

  • impositive
    impositive Member Posts: 629
    edited February 2011

    The "yeast therapy" thread has piqued my interest.  While studying how fungi can affect one another, I found an article -  Counteracting Mycotoxin Contamination: The Effectiveness of Saccharomyces Cerevasiae Cell Wall Glucans in Mycosorb® for Sequestering Mycotoxins. 

    It says they can use a proponent the cell wall of the yeast, S cerevasiae, particularly glucans, to adsorb mycotoxins, sort of the way someone might use activated charcoal or bentonite clay.  We have heard of beta glucans as a supplement.  These are also obtained from the cell wall of a fungus.  I wonder if they work in the same fashion.  

    The article also talks about mycotoxins in (animal) feed. Farmers and agriculturalists seem to know more about these mycotoxins than our doctors. It was interesting to me because we have talked about how the US regulates the amount of aflatoxin in our food supply. (btw, aflatoxin is the ONLY mycotin being monitored) and also about how we are slowly and chronically poisoned by these toxins.  Anyway, here are some excerpts which I found disturbing.

    It states: It is difficult to estimate precisely the mycotoxin concentration in a large bulk lot because of their uneven distribution in commodities and the large variability associated with the overall mycotoxin isolation procedure. Even when using accepted test procedures, there is variability associated with the selection of the sample, the grinding/mixing/ homogenization procedure and the extraction method used.

    As an example, the distillers dried grains with solubles (DDGS) matrix gave strong background interference contributing variability by binding and/or masking the real mycotoxin level. Because of this variability, the true mycotoxin concentration in feeds cannot be determined with 100% certainty. Furthermore, significant total amounts may be present in feed at low concentrations.


    (So basically, even though they may be testing for aflatoxins in these bulk lots, we may be getting much more than we barganed for.)

    Fungal contamination affects both the organoleptic characteristics and the alimentary value of feed, and entails a risk of toxicosis. The biological effects of mycotoxins depend on the ingested amounts, number of toxins, duration of exposure and animal sensitivity.

    Mycotoxins can induce health troubles that are specific to each toxin, have synergistic toxic properties in the frequent case of multi-contamination, and/or affect the immune status of animals promoting infections and have a negative impact on livestock production. In addition, the possible presence of toxic residues in edible animal products when animals are fed contaminated feeds may have some detrimental effects on human health.we concluded that ß-D-glucans may have strong affinities for mycotoxins exhibiting ‘aflatoxinlike,' ‘deoxynivalenol-like' or ‘zearalenone-like' structures. The use of organic material from yeast cell walls such as Mycosorb® (Alltech Inc.) could therefore help sequester mycotoxins in the digestive tract when they are added to the diet and thus mitigate the harmful impact of mycotoxins on animals.http://en.engormix.com/MA-mycotoxins/articles/counteracting-mycotoxin-contamination-effectiveness-t536/254-p0.htm

     
  • impositive
    impositive Member Posts: 629
    edited February 2011

    I would like to add to the bread conversation....where there is fungus there are usually also mycotoxins.  In the case of S cerevasiae, they produce ethanol, a type of alcohol.  The yeast itself can be heat killed but the mycotoxins such as aflatoxin are not, they remain in the food product.  I also dont eat bread because if you have yeast in your body....and we all do, the flour is a starch which quickly converts to sugar, a FOOD FOR FUNGUS!

    Ok...back to the alcohol.  This really has nothing to do with the cancer/fungus link but does anyone (in the US) remember a story about a woman who had been on a camping trip (or something, sorry, I only vaguely remember the details) with her husband, their children and some other children?  She and her husband were driving home in separate vehicles and she had all the children.  She ended up crashing and I believe everyone in her vehicle was killed.  The authorities ruled the crash a DUI incident based on the level of alcohol found in her blood.  During the course of the trip it was reported that she had to make a stop because she was feeling ill and dizzy.  The authorities claimed she must have drank something when she made that stop.

    The husband vehemently denied that his wife drank and furthermore would never drink heavily with children in the vehicle.  He went to court to protest the ruling of DUI and try to clear his wife's name.  It was kind of a big story at the time.  I think he may have appeared on Oprah, as well as other programs.  He just kept saying, "My wife did not drink, ever."

    I have read that fungus can produce an alcohol-like effect, nauseous, dizzy, etc.  The mycotoxin acetaldehyde is produced by yeast/fungus and converted by the liver to alcohol. Some people who appear to have been drinking are actually showing the effects of yeast/fungus and its alcohol by-product.

    I have often wondered if this poor women had severe yeast overgrowth and that is where the alcohol in her blood was coming from.  The husband and his wife could have been truly vindicated has someone recognized this fact. 

    Just another interesting fungus story....

  • Hindsfeet
    Hindsfeet Member Posts: 2,456
    edited February 2011

    Impositive, interesting story. I don't know..but, often after eating bread products I feel slightly drugged. I've had several parents say the same thing.

  • digger
    digger Member Posts: 590
    edited February 2011

    It certainly could have been an overgrowth of yeast that caused this poor woman to drive the wrong way at an extraordinarily excessive speed on the Taconic parkway, killing herself, all of her nieces, her daughter, and three innocent men in the other lane who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Upon examination of the wreckage, police found the remains of a 1.75 liter of straight vodka, of which a large amount was still in her system.  Toxicology also indicated that she had quite a bit of pot in her system.

    So could one conjecture that the "poor woman" simply had too much yeast that caused her to become disoriented and her poor husband could truly be vindicated if someone recognized this fact?

    That's exactly what I mean my using anecdotes, stories, etc. to twist around a story.  No, the woman was drunk, high as a kite and driving with a bunch of kids in her car.  It was totally irresponsible, the husband is in a huge state of denial, and it was a very, very big deal here in the NY/CT area.

    Please try to get your facts a little closer to the truth before making a conjecture. 

  • luv_gardening
    luv_gardening Member Posts: 1,393
    edited February 2011

    WOW, Digger, I'm shocked.  It sounds like you're really angry about this incident, but that's nothing to do with the writer.

    Your facts may be correct but I can think of other ways to get them across that are more considerate and caring of the writer's feelings.

    You have used sarcasm twice in a very disrespectful way when you only needed to point out the facts and perhaps the logical errors if you think it's really important.

    When we disagree with someone that's more reason to word things kindly.  I thought we had agreed on the "troll" thread that we wanted to be respectful to each other, otherwise people will tend to react and then everyone will be upset again.  Is that what you want? 

    It sounds like you could do with a soothing break, a treat or something.  Life gets stressful at times for all of us and we need to support each other.

    Now I need to get to bed as it's gone 2am here near Sydney.  I was listening to the cyclone news from Queensland.  There may be devastation in a few hours.

  • impositive
    impositive Member Posts: 629
    edited February 2011

    Digger,  I didn't list ANY FACTS, I even said I only vaguely remember it.  I was simply relating a "story" to my thoughts regarding fungi producing acetaldehyde, which btw, is  a fact and according to the US EPA is a probable carcinogen.  I will say that I shouldn't have included my last paragraph, as that was indeed conjecture.  Thanks for pointing out my errors.  You're always on top of that for me.  Good thing for me you don't charge for that service!

    Allow me to give you a little advice in return...relax.... It seems you are wound tighter than a yo-yo.  Unwind a bit.  There are some great tools to help people be in control and not blow their top at any self perceived, slightest provocation.  Deep breathing, meditation and yoga are great ways to help relieve some of that pent up anger. 

  • digger
    digger Member Posts: 590
    edited February 2011

    Yep, I'm chillin' but it's hard to hold back when that story, which was huge news here in the NY and CT area given the sheer horror of the drunk and high mother, is misinterpreted and added to the archives of yeast overgrowth.  I may be a troll, but I do reserve the right to comment when an interpretation is dead wrong.

  • Ang7
    Ang7 Member Posts: 1,261
    edited February 2011

    I can understand why digger would be upset... 

    I have never heard of this news story and I was feeling badly for the mom after reading the first comment about the alcohol in her blood and yeast overgrowth. 

    If I was familiar with the story it would bother me that these thoughts were being posted.

    But I am not familiar with the Fungal Theory either so I have a lot of reading to do...

  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited February 2011

    Wow, what a tragic story - ohmigosh!!!  How sad for everyone involved!  Impositive, I'm sorry, but that's pretty ingenuous, dontcha think?   To bring up this story to ostensibly add credibility to your "yeast/fungus theory" without even checking to see if you could fact-check?  It's not about being sensitive or respectful or angry or tightly-wound.  It's about the intentional (and consistent!) selective cherry-picking of "facts" and twisting of "facts" to support a theory that tends to get a reactionary response.

    *Edited to remove inflammatory comments.  Apologies to anyone who may have been offended.  

  • Hindsfeet
    Hindsfeet Member Posts: 2,456
    edited February 2011

    Impositive...I' had this afternoon off and watched several u-tube video's.

    I thought I would put this one here in answering a question I pondered earlier in regard to the immune system not reconizing cancer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdBf6ClR5BM&feature=related

  • Hindsfeet
    Hindsfeet Member Posts: 2,456
    edited February 2011

    Impostive...you admit a mistake, and someone comes back throwing stones at you? That truly defines a bully. Some people apparently lack social grace. There are those who come here to basically find fault. Too bad.

  • luv_gardening
    luv_gardening Member Posts: 1,393
    edited February 2011

    Thenewme, there are so many errors on the whole of BCO.  I doubt there are any threads that don't have basic mistakes.  Chemo and rads have been credited with so many attributes that are just not even close to factual.  Studies get misinterpreted, oncologists get misquoted, it's just the way people are.  Fallible, distressed, depressed, panicked, suffering chemo brain, but mostly just not having the ability to fully understand scientific and medical concepts and studies.  Even the scientists can't agree and studies constantly contradict each other.

    I don't generally see other women attacking or ridiculing those mistaken women.  It seems that is reserved  for anyone who people have a personal grudge or bias against, or where they have opposing beliefs or values.  Society has learnt that the old fashioned way of punishing students doesn't work but encouragement and respect reap incredible rewards.

    Unfortunately it's human nature to want to convince people to see things differently, but unless it's done sympathetically it just causes them to dig their heels in harder in defence of their beliefs.  That in turn escalates everyone's feelings of irritation, anger or whatever it is they are feeling, including the antagonist. You can't win an argument with "facts" till they are ready to listen. And to get people to listen you need to tread gently, respectfully and sympathetically.

    Basic people skills.

    I guess I'm just keen for both camps to get on so a proper debate can sort out the wheat from the chaff while preserving everyone's dignity.  Until someone can come up with a cure then everything should be up for debate.  Anything less is putting our lives at risk.

  • luv_gardening
    luv_gardening Member Posts: 1,393
    edited February 2011

    Barry, thank you so much for that link.  I also looked at the Wikipedia entry for Beta Glucan which I have read about before, but now I have more knowledge I could understand a lot more. 

    Oh no, I feel a full blown obsession coming on.  I have a problem understanding the chemistry part of bio-chemistry but can usually get past that with enough reading.  My husband is good at chemistry but biology is not of interest to him.  Now I can enjoy some of the educational You Tube videos to help me.  The thread on yeast therapy is also interesting.   I was looking at shitake mushrooms while shopping this afternoon but they look awful and I can't bring myself to try them, but I couldn't resist buying bakers yeast for a little experiment, and that was before reading the Wiki article.

    This thirst for knowledge can drive me crazy.

  • impositive
    impositive Member Posts: 629
    edited February 2011

    Barry, I appreciate the link as well.  I take a beta glucan that is micronized so it helps to fit into the cell's receptor site (according to the company).  A good visual goes a long way in helping to understand how it works and make me feel better about taking it.

    I found it note worthy that in the video, when speaking about cancer cells, at about the 2 minute mark, he says "the primed neutrophils now see them as non-self, and begin killing them as if they were yeast." 

  • luv_gardening
    luv_gardening Member Posts: 1,393
    edited February 2011

     Interesting snip from Wikipedia, Medicinal Mushrooms.

    "Fungi that do not produce mushrooms, especially molds and yeasts, are the original source of some notable drugs including lovastatin, ciclosporin, as well as the antifungal griseofulvin, and the antibiotics penicillin and cephalosporin."

    So some anti-fungals are produced from fungi.

  • impositive
    impositive Member Posts: 629
    edited February 2011

    Sheila, I have found the "yeast therapy" thread to be of interest as well and have wondered if that is why the bakers yeast (S cerevasiae) is shown to have the effect against cancer that it does... because some fungi have the ability to kill or disable other fungi.  "Statin" drugs were actually antifungal drugs that were found to have an interesting "side effect"... they lowered cholesterol. 

  • misssimpson
    misssimpson Member Posts: 35
    edited February 2011

    Wikipedia also has an article on Dr. Robert Young and it seems critial of his education and research.  After finishing what my oncologist recommends, I'll look into other treatments.  I still check out his recommendations and if the benefits out weigh the risk, I'm all in.

  • impositive
    impositive Member Posts: 629
    edited February 2011

    Misssimpson, my family visited Williamsburg a couple of years ago.  It's one of my DH's favorite places.

    I read Robert Young's book Sick and Tired and it made a lot of sense to me.  He's a microbiologist who studies "live" blood under a dark field microscope.  I had a live blood analysis done once by someone who was trained by him.  It was very interesting to see the various microbes and white blood cells as well as the red ones and how they change their behavior as you change your diet.  They also do a dried blood analysis.  During this analysis, the man kept asking if I had a head injury within the last year or two.  He explained why he was asking and what my blood showed. I answered no because I couldn't think of any "injury" and he seemed puzzled.  Later, when I was explaining this to my DH, he reminded me of a surgery I had to my scalp.  It was kind of like an AhHa! moment.  I'm not sure I subscribe to everything Dr Young does but I definitely think diet plays a HUGE role in our well being. 

  • Hindsfeet
    Hindsfeet Member Posts: 2,456
    edited February 2011

    SheliaE...so well said. Thanks

  • impositive
    impositive Member Posts: 629
    edited February 2011

    What has happened that coincides with cancer rates rising? 

    IMO, the western urban industrialization of our diet.  It isn't the food itself that is poisonous but what man has done to food in his development and management of it.  In order to achieve this, man had to store (and therefore ferment) food (think silos-heat, moisure and a food source in them bring about mold).  It was this manipulation of our food that brought about the increased presence of the toxicogenic fungi we've been talking about here.  These toxins permeate our food and therefore us, and has given rise to mycotoxin induced disease.  Today's foods are loaded with fungal promoters like concentrated oils and sugar products, grain fermentation such as breads and beer, wine, and alcohol, fermenting milk to make cheeses, pasteurization which kills off bacteria...the bad AND the good, stored grains, particularly corn, fat laden meat of stored grain fed animals and cured (fermented) meats. 

    Studies have been done on people (far east and native tribes) with low cancer rates.  The things missing from these so called native diets are those items listed above.  We cancer patients have often discussed the differences in our diets (ie; vegetarians vs vegans vs carnivores).  People in every category get cancer.  What is the common denominator?  Most likely regular consumption of one or more of the fungal promoters listed above.  What's more, the typical western diet lacks sufficient vegetables and wild caught fish, both of which are protective against these toxic fungi and in the case of vegetables, their fiber bind with those toxins to be carried out of the body.

    IMO, the first line of prevention and defense of cancer and other diseases with unknown origins is a diet of fresh  whole foods which includes plenty of vegetables, wild caught fish, grass fed meats and very little sugar and simple carbs.  We can take loads of supplements, build our immune systems, exercise, etc. but if we are not preventing and eliminating these fungi and their mycotoxins from our diets, these aren't going to help us achieve our goals.

    Just my opinion....

  • luv_gardening
    luv_gardening Member Posts: 1,393
    edited February 2011

    I changed my name from SheilaEchidna to -Sheila-, I hope it doesn't confuse anyone.

  • impositive
    impositive Member Posts: 629
    edited February 2011

    -Sheila-, We can still see your beautiful photo so no confusion here!

  • impositive
    impositive Member Posts: 629
    edited February 2011

    Some things with unknown causes that I've learned that could be related to fungal infections. 

    Do mice get diabetes?  Not according to researchers.  In order to study diabetes in mice, they inject them with fungal mycotoxin called streptozotocin.  I wonder if fungi could cause diabetes in people.

    Gout...Many doctors believe gout is caused by too much uric acid in the blood.  Our bodies do not make uric acid so where could this be coming from?  Fungi produce uric acid.  Doctors often prescribe Colchicine to treat gout.  Colchicine is a potent antifungal and its use has also been studied as an anti-cancer drug. 

    Microcalcifications in the body are caused by too much uric acid in the blood.  The body's calcium surrounds the acid to neutralize it which results in the little dots we see on x-rays such as mammograms and x-rays for chronic sinus infections (caused by fungi). 

    Kidney stones.  It is said that 70-90% of stones are caclium and uric acid is responsible for about 10%.  Again...why do we have excess amounts of calcium and or uric acid in our kidneys?

    Skin tags.  These typically grow in dark areas, prone to moisture (sweating) where skin rubs together such as under the breasts, in the armpits, base of neck (usually in heavier people), groin area.  Hormone elevations such as in prenancy may cause an increase in skin tags. 

    There are tons of chronic conditions with unknown causes.  When they dont know the cause, I think fungus first.

  • althea
    althea Member Posts: 1,595
    edited February 2011

    I don't know much about uric acid, other than having two rounds of gout that hurt like holy heck.  As for calcium in the kidneys, however, I just came across some information about salt that I'd never heard of before.  I'm reading a book by Raymond Francis and he says excess sodium can lead to bone loss because we end up excreting calcium in our urine to get rid of the excess salt.  I'd imagine there could be a lengthy list that could explain calcium in the kidneys. 

  • impositive
    impositive Member Posts: 629
    edited February 2011

    My (then) 19 yr old daughter went off to college and lived in a 100 year old building on campus (that had mold).  She developed kidney stones that year.  I had never heard of a 19 yr old getting stones.  The docs told her it was probably from drinking too much milk.  I didn't accept that theory so I began reading.

    It was my understanding that calcium is stored in the bones first, then the blood.  The body works hard to maintain the levels in the blood and when those levels get too low, we pull from our bones where extra calcium is stored.  When the calcium levels in our blood get too high, we store the extra in our bones or it is passed out through our urine.  High calcium levels in our urine can cause stones. 

    Obviously, we get our calcium from our foods and supplements.  I've read vitamin D and certain hormones such as the parathyroid, calcitonin (also produced by the thyroid) and estrogen help control the levels of calcium in our body. So maybe if our vitamin D or those hormone levels are "off" that could have an effect as well.  But what causes those levels to be off?  Certain mycotoxins (zearalenone) are estrogenic or maybe birth control pills.  So you're right, Althea, there is probably more than one explanation.  

    I've read in Dr Robert Young's book, Sick and Tired that the body excretes calcium to neutralize acids.  He is a huge proponent of real salts (sea salt, etc.), not the striped down table salt in the western diet.  He says we need salt everyday because our bodies are made of salt and water.  If his "acid" theory is correct, then the book you are reading about salt seems to be conflicting because salt is a base and not an acid.  Not to mention the iodine protocol calls for salt as well. (I think) Now I'm really confused, lol.

  • flash
    flash Member Posts: 1,685
    edited February 2011

    impositive- our bodies make uric acid all the time. it's a 2 step process in the breakdown of the purine proteins (found in just about all meets, legume vegetables etc)  the difference in gout is the inability of the body to correctly breakdown the purine proteins.

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